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Thread: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

  1. #151
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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    The story says

    "WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. – A Florida man is claiming his constitutional rights were violated when his massage at a day spa was secretly recorded during an investigation into human trafficking.

    In the federal lawsuit recently filed by a man identified as "John Doe," the man says police were "spying" on him while he was in a "state of undress" during a massage at Jupiter's Orchids of Asia Day Spa.

    The man isn't among those charged with solicitation of prostitution in connection with the case. New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft has pleaded not guilty to two counts of solicitation.

    The lawsuit says the man "did not engage in any sexual or illegal activity." The lawsuit asks for an unspecified amount of damages and names Jupiter police and the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office."

    How does he know this took place/who saw him or looked at the tapes? What are the elements of his damages? Has he been charged, has he been defamed, has he been held up to public ridicule?
    Last edited by slowpoke; 04-16-2019 at 05:45 PM.

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  3. #152
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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    You're all forgetting that Thrill Seeking Behavior is part of sexual gratification for some people.

    I bet the NFL is happy to get a break from scandals that involve homicide and extreme domestic violence (I say that as a football fan.)

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  5. #153
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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    ^especially for people with sex addictions, many of which go undiagnosed untreated until something happens that interferes with their daily life.

    Most of us don’t break laws to get sex

    Which leads me to my next question although I may have answered it - why don’t these dudes who get caught up in these sort of “scandals” pay politicians to loosen the laws?

    I guess they’d rather seek thrills, break laws, pay lawyers to bust a nut then do the latter?

    i just haven’t wrapped my mind around why is allegedly getting hand job at spa illegal then?

    I just feel like humans want to make certain forms of adult industry like “massages” illegal then complain when they get busted for doing said illegal activities.

    I put money that Kraft votes for politicians who want to keep this type of work illegal

  6. #154
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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    Quote Originally Posted by SnuffleUffleGrass View Post
    You're all forgetting that Thrill Seeking Behavior is part of sexual gratification for some people.

    I bet the NFL is happy to get a break from scandals that involve homicide and extreme domestic violence (I say that as a football fan.)
    And while the NFL is happy to break from violent scandals I personally don’t think it’s a good look to have NFL leaders involved in ANY scandals.

    Not only do they have kids who are influenced by nfl personalities it’s hypocritical of owners to tell their players to behave, kick them out the nfl for acting plumb fools, but they can go trolling for sex/partaking in illicit activities

    I get it people do dumb shit. But when mfs are in leadership positions image is important. At least do your dirt under the table.

  7. #155
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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    It seems unlikely a politician would vote to loosen the laws, or anyone publicly support it. People who are rich enough mostly live by their own rules. The police probably charged him before they realized who he was or how much money he had. Before this, I never heard of him.

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  9. #156
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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
    It seems unlikely a politician would vote to loosen the laws, or anyone publicly support it. People who are rich enough mostly live by their own rules. The police probably charged him before they realized who he was or how much money he had. Before this, I never heard of him.
    I get rich people live by their own rules and such however they are not above the law (or at least not supposed to be).

    If rich people were not held accountable the world would be very ruthless place to live, well way more than it already is. It seems though if/when they are held accountable it is for shorter less stiff penalties and consequences because they can either pay for very good lawyers to defend them or they can bribe corrupt judiciary officials with 'this can change your life' hush money.

    I am still a bit baffled as to why no one would publicly support relaxing the laws regarding selling/procuring "sex" - they did it in Nevada and it seems to be working well there and the money they spend on the "war on trafficking - which turns out to be no trafficking" could be spend somewhere more productive.

    So I think you are saying its 'easier' as a rich person who likes sexual risks to go out procure cheap illicit sexual thrills and if caught pay expensive lawyers to beat the charges, pay pr firm to clean up image than it is to pay judges, politicians, lawyers to revise laws that would make partaking in risky paid sexual behavior illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
    The police probably charged him before they realized who he was or how much money he had.
    He allegedly rolled up to the hood spot in a Bentley (a car that probably cost more than their houses) ... both times.

    Im surprised he didn't throw out the "do you know who I am?" line to get out of all that.
    Last edited by miss.a.p1600; 04-16-2019 at 08:21 PM.

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  11. #157
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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
    It seems unlikely a politician would vote to loosen the laws, or anyone publicly support it. People who are rich enough mostly live by their own rules. The police probably charged him before they realized who he was or how much money he had. Before this, I never heard of him.
    There were other billionaires arrested as well. Kraft just happens to be well known because he owns the Patriots.

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  13. #158
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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    Quote Originally Posted by miss.a.p1600 View Post

    I am still a bit baffled as to why no one would publicly support relaxing the laws regarding selling/procuring "sex" - they did it in Nevada and it seems to be working well there and the money they spend on the "war on trafficking - which turns out to be no trafficking" could be spend somewhere more productive.

    Im surprised he didn't throw out the "do you know who I am?" line to get out of all that.
    The war on trafficking is probably more about "the battle for funding".

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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    Ok miss.Law&Order, so it's your belief that the government has the right to tell the women on this board what they may or may not do with their own bodies? You further contend that the government can then pursue these hardened criminals by any invasive means necessary? Because that is exactly what happened here.

    I have to tell you that most here would not agree with you, including almost anyone posting in Other Work and the many dancers who have chosen to pick up extra cash when it suited them to do so. You might want to consider where you are before peddling much more of that judgmental crap. It's bad enough that women who make these choices have to face morality laws and policing - they don't need snarky comments about it from a female member of this board.

    You can spin that class warfare bullshit all you want, but in this case Kraft and the other billionaire are on the side of the angels, including the girls who were also busted and the working class Johns who were just trying to pay for consensual sex. If the "above the law" billionaires (LOL) get a walk, then so too does everyone else.

    LE went way too far in using invasive hidden surveillance techniques originally intended to catch terrorists, just to scoop up a few grown adults having sex for money. Normally LE would get away with it because their victims have neither the will nor the resources for a public fight, but this time they screwed up by trying to publicly shame Kraft right out of the box, giving him nothing to lose by fighting.

    Not only do I hope that Kraft and all the other defendants win, but I really hope this ultimately makes it to the Supreme Court. You might be ok with the government controlling you and abusing its power, but most are not and it's time that the police be reminded that there are limits to how they try to catch supposed criminals.

  16. #160
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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    Your thirst for attention is through the roof because You feel compelled to type long ass multiple paragraphs constantly addressing me and trying to slick antagonize.

    1. Please learn how to condense.
    2. Stop assuming what my beliefs are
    3. There was alleged illegal activity at all of these spas
    4. Stop speaking for everyone on the forum speak for yourself only
    5. Legal dancing and unlicensed ” masseuse”/illegal jack shack are two different thing
    6. Judgemental? Lol that’s like the pot calling the kettle black - don’t make me provide examples of all your judgemental nonsense
    7. Consensual sex at a public business is illegal in most jurisdictions
    8. Welcome to 2019 the government surveillance is everywhere you go
    9. Sex for money is illegal in every state except Nevada
    10. You break laws then that opens you up for consequences including mugshots, bad publicity, fines, etc.

    I don’t create the laws regarding adultwork or privacy - the politicians YOU vote for do. So step the fuck off and address your problem with those men at your next local town hall meeting.

    and learn how to use the ignore feature because I don’t feel like wasting my time reading or respond to your intentionally antagonist bait posts

    Quote that!
    Last edited by miss.a.p1600; 04-17-2019 at 08:43 AM.

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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    Quote Originally Posted by miss.a.p1600 View Post
    Did you vote for legalizing jack shacks?

    If not then stfu!
    Until June of 2003, fucking someone else in the ass was also illegal in 14 states. Is it your contention that we should have been setting up surveillance in the home of every person who liked to have anal sex? Perhaps we could have sent swat teams in to catch them in the act?

    Sadly, politicians often do not have the courage or political will to overturn morality laws, even when it is the right thing to do. It took a Supreme Court case to get rid of that.

    So perhaps you should take your own advice and stfu instead of defending a misguided morality law that hurts a lot of people who post on this very board.

    Ah, and since you had a revisionist moment and changed your post, I'll add that every paragraph in my last post had a point in addressing your several bullet posts. And your personal views are quite evident in the word choices you used in every post you bombarded this thread with. it was also evident in your choice to criticize the billionaires for fighting for their rights instead of cheering them on for what they are doing for themselves and everyone else involved.

    But please do continue to regal us with stories about how you are really just a "Law & Order gal" rather than admitting that you find the practice distasteful.
    Last edited by rickdugan; 04-17-2019 at 08:39 AM.

  18. #162
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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    Learn how to condense!

    1. There was no surveillance of people fucking in their own homes. This was surveillance of a public business. Stop comparing apples and oranges
    2. Again if you have problems with laws take that up with your elected officials
    3. Sex in a public place of business I am against if you like to do that then more power to you.
    4. I’ll revise my posts any cotdamn time I feel like - just as you did when you edited at 10:39 - your hypocrisy is through the roof
    5. My views and opinions are different for yours - oh well - stop reading my posts and threads if you can’t handle reading opposing viewpoints with maturity like other male posters such as eagle and slowpoke who have opposing viewpoint but are classy enough to express their opinions in a civil fashion unlike yourself
    6. I created the thread so I will bombard as I please you can leave it anytime though

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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    Quote Originally Posted by miss.a.p1600 View Post
    Learn how to condense!

    1. There was no surveillance of people fucking in their own homes. This was surveillance of a public business. Stop comparing apples and oranges
    2. Again if you have problems with laws take that up with your elected officials
    3. Sex in a public place of business I am against if you like to do that then more power to you.
    4. I’ll revise my posts any cotdamn time I feel like - just as you did when you edited at 10:39 - your hypocrisy is through the roof
    5. My views and opinions are different for yours - oh well - stop reading my posts and threads if you can’t handle reading opposing viewpoints with maturity like other male posters such as eagle and slowpoke who have opposing viewpoint but are classy enough to express their opinions in a civil fashion unlike yourself
    6. I created the thread so I will bombard as I please you can leave it anytime though
    Ok, so you would have been ok with surveillance in gay bath houses? How about hotels? Paid sex is as illegal in private homes as in business settings (as was sodomy) so you're splitting legal hairs that don't exist. They had as much of an "expectation of privacy" in a private massage room, where they were expected to be naked, than they do anywhere else.

    You don't control how others respond to what you post, so you can stow those weirdly arrogant directives.

    At least you're finally being honest now about being against p4p. So be it I suppose. But this board is a broad tent that includes; (1) escorts; (2) adult entertainers who switch between different work lines; (3) dancers who will sometimes do p4p when they choose to; (4) guys who do p4p; and (5) a variety of others. If you take a hard line in a place like this against people whose sole crime to to sell and buy sex, even going so far as to condone horribly invasive surveillance against them, you're going to get some static.

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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    1. The business is a massage/spa where the average person may assume they are licensed masseuses giving a regular massage. They are giving happy endings which makes it an adult oriented business but they are claiming to be a regular business when it’s not. Plus it’s nestled among legit business. Most adult oriented businesses have zoning laws and other regulations.
    2. After having brief conversation with another poster in this thread I was able to get a better under of the laws regarding privacy and the settings
    3. Like I said before if you can’t respond to opposing viewpoints with maturity and class like everyone else on the thread then you will be reported, you seem to be having difficulty with that.
    4. I could give two shits what you do regarding p4p as long as it’s in the appropriate setting - as I said the laws were created and someone then enforces them. If you condone illegal activity then that’s on you. You voted for people who are against adult business such as this spa but you do nothing to change these very laws. The static should not be with me I didn’t create or enforce theses laws

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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    Quote Originally Posted by miss.a.p1600 View Post
    1. The business is a massage/spa where the average person may assume they are licensed masseuses giving a regular massage. They are giving happy endings which makes it an adult oriented business but they are claiming to be a regular business when it’s not. Plus it’s nestled among legit business. Most adult oriented businesses have zoning laws and other regulations.
    2. After having brief conversation with another poster in this thread I was able to get a better under of the laws regarding privacy and the settings
    3. Like I said before if you can’t respond to opposing viewpoints with maturity and class like everyone else on the thread then you will be reported, you seem to be having difficulty with that.
    4. Stop putting words in my mouth. I could give two shits what you do regarding p4p as long as it’s in the appropriate setting - as I said the laws were created and someone then enforces them. If you condone illegal activity then that’s on you. You voted for people who are against adult business such as this spa but you do nothing to change these very laws. The static should not be with me I didn’t create or enforce theses laws
    My posts speak for themselves and are blunt to be sure, but I'm not the one using expressions like "jack shack" and barking directives. But by all means report away if you must.

    So what's an appropriate setting for people to engage in p4p? I asked previously, but you haven't elaborated. Also, where do you draw the line in terms of what LE is allowed to do to catch someone engaging in the heinous act of selling sex to another grown adult?

    Look, I'm not trying to be difficult and I suspect that you're issues with p4p are deeper than you admit. But either way, there has to be a limit on what LE is allowed to do. Otherwise we live in a police state. And if it takes a billionaire or two to push back through the courts to ensure that our Constitutional rights are protected, then so be it.

    Your comment on changing the law was responded to above, by multiple posters, and repeating it doesn't make it sound any more clever. We don't have anyone to vote for who would do it because almost no politician will get near the issue, right or wrong, just like there were politicians in 14 states who would not overturn the sodomy laws.

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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    Your posts previous posts have crossed the line from "blunt" into low level baiting, trolling, and covert antagonizing which is common behavior from you in many of the threads I create. You should be able to express your opposing views in a mature fashion like everyone else in the thread but if you need to leave the thread so everyone else can continue peacefully then by all means please do so.
    Last edited by miss.a.p1600; 04-17-2019 at 12:09 PM.

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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    Ok they're going to release the video - MY EYES!!
    Where Am I? Missing NYC

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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    Hopefully it's thoroughly blurred with NO audio.

    Why is the media requesting this video?

    Not sure if this is accurate but looks like the judge stopped it? https://abc13.com/prosecutors-set-to...thers/5255877/

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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Bahuba View Post
    Ok they're going to release the video - MY EYES!!
    Not necessarily. Kraft's lawyers just filed an emergency motion to block the release until the constitutionality of the video could be argued. We shall see if it is granted. The hearing for that is the end of next week, so it's not exactly a lengthy delay.

    Seems like a desperation move by the prosecutors to me. They made a weak argument about the Florida Public Records Act requiring them to release it, but there are enough loopholes in that act to drive a semi through. Seems like they are trying to bum rush it out the door before a judge can throw it out as fruit of an unconstitutional search. The prosecutors must be very concerned that they are going to lose the argument next week, which will make them look bad in all sorts of ways.

    UPDATE: The release of the video was blocked pending the results of the April 29th hearing.

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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    I was watching this on tv and my husband says.... he went to see the girls at the massage parlor because the high end escorts were busy. It was convenient to go to some rub and tug place.....

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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...deo/ar-BBW2yMW

    “According to ESPN’s investigative reporter T.J. Quinn, a judge in Florida has blocked prosecutors from releasing said video until there’s a hearing.”

    It appears Kraft got to the prosecutors who were trying to take a dive by poisoning any potential jury pool, and the Court put a stop to it.

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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    Here is what I found ...

    Court papers from the office of Palm Beach County State Attorney Dave Aronberg said that Florida law requires the video to be made public.


    A judge has blocked the release of the videos until a hearing can be held on April 29, according to WPTV.

    Kraft was charged earlier this year for allegedly soliciting prostitution at the Orchids Asia Spa in Jupiter, Fla. Kraft pleaded not guilty and requested a jury trial. 14 other men have also been charged in the case.

    Lei Wang, who is the alleged manager of the spa, and Hua Zhang, the alleged owner, have both pleaded not guilty to numerous charges.

    An attorney for Kraft said Friday that the public release of video evidence in the prostitution solicitation case against him would invade his privacy and jeopardize his right to a fair trial.

    Attorneys for Kraft and Wang have asked a judge to bar the release of the video while their cases are pending. Wang's attorney requested a hearing set for May 17.

    But prosecutors say that they can't wait until then.

    “The Public Records Act does not allow a custodian to delay the production of records to allow the resolution of a constitutional challenge to the release of the documents," Aronberg's office wrote.

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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

     There may be room to argue about this. It wold be nice if the media would provide a link to the relevant statutes.

    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...0119/0119.html

    119.071General exemptions from inspection or copying of public records.—

     d)1.A public record that was prepared by an agency attorney (including an attorney employed or retained by the agency or employed or retained by another public officer or agency to protect or represent the interests of the agency having custody of the record) or prepared at the attorney’s express direction, that reflects a mental impression, conclusion, litigation strategy, or legal theory of the attorney or the agency, and that was prepared exclusively for civil or criminal litigation or for adversarial administrative proceedings, or that was prepared in anticipation of imminent civil or criminal litigation or imminent adversarial administrative proceedings, is exempt from s. 119.07(1) and s. 24(a), Art. I of the State Constitution until the conclusion of the litigation or adversarial administrative proceedings. For purposes of capital collateral litigation as set forth in s. 27.7001, the Attorney General’s office is entitled to claim this exemption for those public records prepared for direct appeal as well as for all capital collateral litigation after direct appeal until execution of sentence or imposition of a life sentence.

     2)AGENCY INVESTIGATIONS.—
     (a)All criminal intelligence and criminal investigative information received by a criminal justice agency prior to January 25, 1979, is exempt from s. 119.07(1) and s. 24(a), Art. I of the State Constitution.
     (b)Whenever criminal intelligence information or criminal investigative information held by a non-Florida criminal justice agency is available to a Florida criminal justice agency only on a confidential or similarly restricted basis, the Florida criminal justice agency may obtain and use such information in accordance with the conditions imposed by the providing agency.
     (c)1.Active criminal intelligence information and active criminal investigative information are exempt from s. 119.07(1) and s. 24(a), Art. I of the State Constitution.
     2.a.A request made by a law enforcement agency to inspect or copy a public record that is in the custody of another agency and the custodian’s response to the request, and any information that would identify whether a law enforcement agency has requested or received that public record are exempt from s. 119.07(1) and s. 24(a), Art. I of the State Constitution, during the period in which the information constitutes active criminal intelligence information or active criminal investigative information.

     (d)Any information revealing surveillance techniques or procedures or personnel is exempt from s. 119.07(1) and s. 24(a), Art. I of the State Constitution. Any comprehensive inventory of state and local law enforcement resources compiled pursuant to part I, chapter 23, and any comprehensive policies or plans compiled by a criminal justice agency pertaining to the mobilization, deployment, or tactical operations involved in responding to an emergency, as defined in s. 252.34, are exempt from s. 119.07(1) and s. 24(a), Art. I of the State Constitution and unavailable for inspection, except by personnel authorized by a state or local law enforcement agency, the office of the Governor, the Department of Legal Affairs, the Department of Law Enforcement, or the Division of Emergency Management as having an official need for access to the inventory or comprehensive policies or plans.

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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Ok miss.Law&Order...

    ...You might want to consider where you are before peddling much more of that judgmental crap. It's bad enough that women who make these choices have to face morality laws and policing - they don't need snarky comments about it from a female member of this board.
    Damn it man, can't you see the inherent hypocrisy here?

    I have to go to work and there isn't time to clean this thread.

    Will close it if necessary, but I'd rather not.

    I'll check back after work, unless it's a crazy ass night in the club lol
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

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    Default Re: What’s a NFL Billionaire Doing Here?.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post
    Damn it man, can't you see the inherent hypocrisy here?

    I have to go to work and there isn't time to clean this thread.

    Will close it if necessary, but I'd rather not.

    I'll check back after work, unless it's a crazy ass night in the club lol
    Ok, mea culpa that I could have played nicer in the sand box.

    This issue just gets to me because I see the countless lives ruined and for what? Consensual sex between two grown adults? Most morality laws aren't really enforced that heavily (like the old sodomy laws), but for some reason this one draws massive amounts of attention and resource expenditures by some police departments. In the old days, police would at least focus mainly on visible streetwalker activity, but even that no longer holds true. Just how much money (including salaried time) did the Jupiter police spend to catch grown adults having consensual sex? It had to be a ton. This is why the ladies in Other Work and guys on customer boards are always paranoid.

    But I do hope you keep the thread open as there is a lot more to come in this case. April 29th in particular is going to be a big day and I'm guessing very much of interest to a lot of people on this board. I will play nicer if that helps.

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