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Thread: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!!

  1. #676
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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Girly_Girl View Post
    What exactly would this mean?
    going nationwide
    :/

    https://xchatz.com/ab5-abc-test-for-...alifornia-law/
    ^^ what this girl has experienced makes perfect sense to me. we do not fit the bill.

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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Erika_Xstacy View Post
    going nationwide
    :/

    https://xchatz.com/ab5-abc-test-for-...alifornia-law/
    ^^ what this girl has experienced makes perfect sense to me. we do not fit the bill.
    When you say going nationwide, meaning they may vote for it to affect every single state? This whole thing confuses me ;(

    Also, is it the ab5 law that they are voting for or the HR2474 as someone else mentioned the other day and a few pages back?
    https://twitter.com/hashtag/HR2474?s=09

    Quote Originally Posted by Dahlia Fallon View Post
    Take a look at these search results: https://twitter.com/hashtag/HR2474?s=09

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...il-subject-290

    'Although the bill is unlikely to be taken up by the Senate'

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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by SamanthaSugar View Post
    This morning I received an email from Cal Gems stating that they the reinstated all my requests, hopefully you got one as well. I'm so happy that you are making $$$! Iv'e yet to get online since the switch. I'm raising my rates today, I always get a little nervous when I do an increase, but I need to remember that when I first started out my rates were 3.99/4.99 and I've increased them all the way up to 8.99/9.99, and 95% of the time I get zero push back and the guys who do, oh well too bad for them. So ladies, don't be afraid to raise your rates, don't work longer and harder because of the decrease. Guys will pay a high price to get off just as women will pay $40 for mascara.
    May you all have a prosperous day!

    I increased mine as well, I noticed yesterday my highest available was bumped up to $14.99, I raised it to $9.99 right now from $7.99. Last night sucked though, like BAD....didn’t make more than what hourly rate could be. Fuck it, 2 previous nights went surprisingly well. I’m taking tonight off & back at it all day Friday & Saturday.

    I’m patiently waiting on the email follow up the other day about payday & rates for hourly really are.....

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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Girly_Girl View Post
    When you say going nationwide, meaning they may vote for it to affect every single state? This whole thing confuses me ;(

    Also, is it the ab5 law that they are voting for or the HR2474 as someone else mentioned the other day and a few pages back?
    https://twitter.com/hashtag/HR2474?s=09
    AB5 is a California specific Assembly Bill. Federally, the PRO (Protect the Right to Organize) Act (HR 2474) is what's being proposed by House Democrats.

    It's hard to talk about HR2474 without talking about politics... Which is against the rules here.

    I'll leave a link. https://californiaglobe.com/section-...o-work-states/

    "Although the Republican controlled Senate is not expected to pass the bill, Democrats are showing their cards on what they will do if they control the Senate. The Republicans meanwhile are are working hard to establish more Right to Work states, and further reduce labor’s political influence in the workplace."

    Not sure if quoting this from the article breaks the politics rule. If so, I can remove it.

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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by anonamiss View Post
    AB5 is a California specific Assembly Bill. Federally, the PRO (Protect the Right to Organize) Act (HR 2474) is what's being proposed by House Democrats.

    It's hard to talk about HR2474 without talking about politics... Which is against the rules here.

    I'll leave a link. https://californiaglobe.com/section-...o-work-states/

    "Although the Republican controlled Senate is not expected to pass the bill, Democrats are showing their cards on what they will do if they control the Senate. The Republicans meanwhile are are working hard to establish more Right to Work states, and further reduce labor’s political influence in the workplace."

    Not sure if quoting this from the article breaks the politics rule. If so, I can remove it.
    so even if this did go thru, although it says its not expected to go thru, would it cause models to lose their job with streamate and other sites? These look like 2 different things?

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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Girly_Girl View Post
    so even if this did go thru, although it says its not expected to go thru, would it cause models to lose their job with streamate and other sites? These look like 2 different things?
    the big similarity is that the bill seeks to redefine what an employee is. if anything were to go through on a federal level, there would be massive pushback and consequences. there are ~56 million freelancers/independent contractors in the US that would be affected.

    it's impossible to say how it will specifically affect any industry. i would hope that camsites (at least those based in the US) would find a way to comply in order to keep their models working. otherwise their businesses would collapse.

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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    If anyone is worried about this happening in their state or on a federal level, it may be wise to consider what happened with Streamate as an example for what *could* happen on a larger scale.

    Streamate decided to hire CA models as employees, and looked at their past performance in order to determine who to offer employment to and who to let go. No one seems to know the exact criteria they used, but it was clear that they were selective. I think it makes sense to assume that at a minimum, they looked at your overall amount of time spent on the site versus your average earnings.

    So if you barely put in hours or if you don't make more than minimum wage on a regular basis on whatever sites you work, I would say, start focusing on increasing your hours and your earnings. That way if any new laws do end up affecting you, you'd presumably be more likely to be hired on as an employee if that's what it comes down to.

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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by anonamiss View Post

    It's hard to talk about HR2474 without talking about politics... Which is against the rules here.

    I'll leave a link. https://californiaglobe.com/section-...o-work-states/


    Not sure if quoting this from the article breaks the politics rule. If so, I can remove it.
    The problem was with you suggesting that people should move to red states as though that would solve their problems. And I was very clear on why that was problematic. You guys are doing a great job of getting through this messy clusterfuck and I'd hate to see a support thread get derailed.

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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dahlia Fallon View Post
    Take a look at these search results: https://twitter.com/hashtag/HR2474?s=09

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...il-subject-290

    'Although the bill is unlikely to be taken up by the Senate'
    The WaPo article says "The bill would change who qualifies as an employee vs. an independent contractor, but the change would apply only to workers seeking to organize or join a union." So as long as cammodels don't unionize, we are still independent contractors federally?
    "The prize never goes to the fastest guy, it goes to the guy who slows down the least."
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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by naomi_doll View Post
    The WaPo article says "The bill would change who qualifies as an employee vs. an independent contractor, but the change would apply only to workers seeking to organize or join a union." So as long as cammodels don't unionize, we are still independent contractors federally?
    No. The bill seeks to amend the National Labor Relations Act, effectively making it so you can't legally be considered an independent contractor unless you pass the same ABC test used in AB-5.

    This is a direct quote from HR 2474. Source: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...bill/2474/text


    Sec. 2. AMENDMENTS TO THE NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS ACT.

    (1) JOINT EMPLOYER.—Section 2(2) of the National Labor Relations Act (29 U.S.C. 152(2)) is amended by adding at the end the following: “Two or more persons shall be employers with respect to an employee if each such person codetermines or shares control over the employee’s essential terms and conditions of employment. In determining whether such control exists, the Board or a court of competent jurisdiction shall consider as relevant direct control and indirect control over such terms and conditions, reserved authority to control such terms and conditions, and control over such terms and conditions exercised by a person in fact: Provided, That nothing herein precludes a finding that indirect or reserved control standing alone can be sufficient given specific facts and circumstances.”.

    (2) EMPLOYEE.—Section 2(3) of the National Labor Relations Act (29 U.S.C. 152(3)) is amended by adding at the end the following: “An individual performing any service shall be considered an employee (except as provided in the previous sentence) and not an independent contractor…

    The A,B,C Test in HR 2474

    • (A) the individual is free from control and direction in connection with the performance of the service, both under the contract for the performance of service and in fact;
    • (B) the service is performed outside the usual course of the business of the employer; and
    • (C) the individual is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation, profession, or business of the same nature as that involved in the service performed.”.


    -------------

    Edit: It is the "B" portion that screws with cammodels the most. Chaturbate has made an attempt to get around this in their revised Performer Agreement by claiming their main course of business is the streaming technology itself, and that the models interacting with customers on the platform are a separate/secondary part of the business, thus allowing models to remain contractors. But that is exactly the same defense Uber is trying to claim, and I personally think it's bullshit. Camsites would have no reason to exist without the models, and wouldn't make any money without us. So I don't see how they can justifiably claim that cammodels streaming on the site aren't the primary course of business. (For the record, I think the ABC test is way too broad which is harming a ton of industries. I think we should be classified as contractors because we set our own rates and hours. It's plain and simple. But we arguably don't pass the current ABC test.)

    What I hope is that over the next several months, everyone will realize the gravity of the situation in California (tons of contractors losing jobs and not benefitting from the bill at all) and therefore fully grasp how detrimental it would be to enact something similar on a federal level.
    Last edited by anonamiss; 02-06-2020 at 07:52 PM.

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  17. #686
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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by anonamiss View Post
    No. The bill seeks to amend the National Labor Relations Act, effectively making it so you can't legally be considered an independent contractor unless you pass the same ABC test used in AB-5.
    Did I read the quote in his article wrong? Or is he wrong about the bill?
    "The prize never goes to the fastest guy, it goes to the guy who slows down the least."
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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Unfortunately, HR2474 passed the house today and will advance to the Senate vote next. Call. Your. Representatives.

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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by naomi_doll View Post
    Did I read the quote in his article wrong? Or is he wrong about the bill?
    I'm honestly not sure what the author meant there. It's right there in the bill. There will be a new definition of employees; I copy and pasted it. It's literally the federal version of AB-5 (seemingly without any exemptions which is also going to be super problematic.)

    Unless I am totally misunderstanding -- but from the many concerning articles that come up if you google something like "HR 2474 independent contractors", along with the literal language of the bill, it seems pretty straightforward to me.

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  22. #689
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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...453_zKglfysqkc

    My rep told exactly how I feel about the bill ... costing all
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzOxH-Z8ZiA

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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Erika_Xstacy View Post
    This article also says "The bill would also allow more people currently classified as contractors to be given the status of employees for the purposes of union organizing,"
    "The prize never goes to the fastest guy, it goes to the guy who slows down the least."
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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by anonamiss View Post
    If anyone is worried about this happening in their state or on a federal level, it may be wise to consider what happened with Streamate as an example for what *could* happen on a larger scale.

    Streamate decided to hire CA models as employees, and looked at their past performance in order to determine who to offer employment to and who to let go. No one seems to know the exact criteria they used, but it was clear that they were selective. I think it makes sense to assume that at a minimum, they looked at your overall amount of time spent on the site versus your average earnings.

    So if you barely put in hours or if you don't make more than minimum wage on a regular basis on whatever sites you work, I would say, start focusing on increasing your hours and your earnings. That way if any new laws do end up affecting you, you'd presumably be more likely to be hired on as an employee if that's what it comes down to.
    my downfall is hours online- get my hours in order, maybe i can join the 10k minutes a month thread.
    glass half full
    if it passes i plan on taking full advantage of benefits.
    now it goes to the senate and so we wait, we have more than a month to prepare and that takes a lot of pressure off

    I wonder if we can create a private group here to discuss the actual politics of this law

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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Erika_Xstacy View Post
    my downfall is hours online- get my hours in order, maybe i can join the 10k minutes a month thread.
    glass half full
    if it passes i plan on taking full advantage of benefits.
    now it goes to the senate and so we wait, we have more than a month to prepare and that takes a lot of pressure off
    I agree. It's Valentine's Day, a great time to get money up and keep eyes open for all options. I'm definitely getting more hours in either way. We are very resilient, we've got this.
    "The prize never goes to the fastest guy, it goes to the guy who slows down the least."
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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    As employees, wouldn't our taxes be much lower? Not having to pay self employment taxes sounds like a blessing to me.

    I'm trying to look on the bright side.

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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Carmen~ View Post
    As employees, wouldn't our taxes be much lower? Not having to pay self employment taxes sounds like a blessing to me.
    Depends on how much you generally write off. As employees we aren't able to make the same deductions that we can while self-employed. But in general, yes, as an employee the general tax liability (not including deductions) is a bit lower, because you only have to pay for half of your FICA tax.

    However, in the case of Streamate, they lowered our commissions to make up for the HR/admin costs, so even though they are withholding our taxes and paying for their share of FICA, many girls (myself included) will be taking home less than if we were self-employed.

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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Just an FYI to anyone working on Streamate -- it looks like we'll get paid on time from our last few days before the CalGems switchover. You can still access your old payment history page with this link - https://www.streamatemodels.com/payments/history.php - which shows that our last SM payments were sent out. (I have direct deposit and it says it'll be there tomorrow. Yay.)

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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Erika_Xstacy View Post
    I wonder if we can create a private group here to discuss the actual politics of this law
    I was talking to a mod via PM about this thread and she said "If you guys want to create a private group where you can discuss politics then have at it." I didn't even know private groups were a thing here. Where do you access them? How do you start one?

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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Here they are, I completely forgot about them honestly. https://www.stripperweb.com/forum/group.php
    "The prize never goes to the fastest guy, it goes to the guy who slows down the least."
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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by anonamiss View Post
    I was talking to a mod via PM about this thread and she said "If you guys want to create a private group where you can discuss politics then have at it." I didn't even know private groups were a thing here. Where do you access them? How do you start one?
    Go to groups on your profile
    Add new group

    Or the link

    Moderating and a open mind is key.

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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Carmen~ View Post
    As employees, wouldn't our taxes be much lower? Not having to pay self employment taxes sounds like a blessing to me.

    I'm trying to look on the bright side.
    id rather pay tax and be fully in control.

    For me, NC is not required by law to Provide a employee w any benefits including breaks unless 15yro or younger. ... a person simply has a awesome employer if offered benefits.
    State and federal employees get perks, the rest of us are fucked.
    for christ sake min wage is 7.25 a hour but the average rent is 1100 -2k and thats the low side.

    If this law goes into place and Streamate offers benefits across the board, no biggie. That’s up to Streamate.


    In North Carolina you show up and act right, if your no good for business be prepared to kick rocks. We have zero protection.
    check individual states employment laws to see if you are safe

    And for Christ sake, fuck a union. The corniest shit for camgirls. Stripperweb is our union
    1.9 percent of wage and salary workers in North Carolina were members of unions -- teachers, postal typical govt unions
    Last edited by Erika_Xstacy; 02-06-2020 at 11:46 PM.

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    Default Re: California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Erika_Xstacy View Post
    id rather pay tax and be fully in control.
    I could not agree with this more.

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