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Thread: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

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    Duh New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    We've been recently hit from a few different sites with a new wave of credit card fraudsters.

    Without going into details, basically what they do is find willing partners to sit there in paid chat doing not much while they rack up $10,000+ in credit card charges. They pick their partners/victims from "low traffic" or new models who think they're doing well until the bill comes due - people unlikely to report anything.

    There is an ACF thread where one of these guys does a little psycho troll routine. They are quite proud of the damage they do to both websites and models. From the looks of things, its some kind of combination misogynistic incel prank and attack on the webcam industry in general.

    While the money may look good at first, the amounts involved and the blatancy puts models on the hook for criminal charges and collections. In the very best case scenario, they lose their camming career entirely with no money to show for it.

    In combination, this has cost us about 5 weeks of staff salary. We've essentially been working for free for about a month. Most of the models involved, despite being handed incredible amounts of free money for no work, are usually unwilling to give any back (even with a generous offers to clear the debt), so that is as good as guilt. We've had better luck in other cases. To that end, we've had to re-evaluate how we handle things going forward. We're in the process of constructing an AI detection model that has already been successful in finding some past cases we missed. This can mean delayed payments, being checked on for some transactions, and a restructuring of benefits (TBD). This hurts all models and their supporting websites.

    What we'd like to share though is how you can avoid being a victim going forward, and it comes down to 2 key things:

    1) Do not rely on a single client for your the majority of your income. If you find yourself in that situation, know that it will end badly.
    2) Report immediately suspect client behavior. No website has ever cut a model if he/she reported something sketchy before it was too late.


    If you're willing to keep reading, here is some detail.

    Relying on a Single Client

    This one has been a source of woe since long before this crisis began, and we've seen variations of this since we started with the studio some 8 years ago. A single client will spend more and more money on a model, causing that model to focus her attention more and more on him. This precludes them from not only gaining new clients in that time, it also increases the risks involved.

    All clients go bad eventually for a number of reasons. They can simply run out of money, turn their interests to another model (or RL girlfriend) after a few months, or feel their spending entitles them to a relationship that isn't part of the contract. If that income suddenly dries up and you aren't prepared for it, this will leave a big hole in your budget. You also haven't been putting the time in on your websites or marketing to easily replace that income. This has been the sudden end of a lot of cammodel careers - when you're used to an easy money regular, who wants to go back to working for a living?

    This also increases your liability in bad situations. If your one and only client decides to charge back an entire year worth of spending through his credit card (yes, we've seen this happen), chargeback protection doesn't help you. No CB protection is "unlimited", no matter how well its advertised. In the same situation, if you'd had another 4 or 5 main clients, you'd probably be safe. The site would see your CB ratio is low and CB protection would still work just fine. You also wouldn't be out 100% of your income in addition to a site ban.

    On a macro level, the big websites have figured this out a long time ago. Its always better to be bringing in new clients. Their placement systems are built for this. How much clients spend and retaining customers takes a back seat to bringing in more and more traffic. More clients and more models increase the income factor over time while decreasing systemic risk - a single superstar dropping out or a few bad apple clients won't destroy their system. Its simply good business.

    Finally, having the mindset not to rely on a single client is a mental health boost. You are less dependent emotionally and psychologically. Knowing that there's always more fish in the sea, so to speak, makes you less vulnerable to being manipulated into a bad situation or over-riding your common sense.

    Sketchy Client Behavior
    This is a list of red flags that should be reported, and preferably before they can do damage. You have a window of sometimes just a day or two before a fraud situation spirals out of your ability to control it. As fraud detection systems get smarter, your own ability to get ahead can be just hours.

    Who is suspicious?


    1. Clients that change payment methods or website payment platforms frequently.
    2. The same client visits you but from a different account - there is no legit reason for this.
    3. Clients that change their spending habits suddenly to double or more.
    4. Clients that ask or push for off-site payment methods.
    5. Clients that are already on a watch list or were previously banned somewhere.
    6. Clients that offer ridiculous amounts of money for nothing or buy long shows where they ask for nothing or act like they aren’t paying attention.
    7. Use your instincts, if it seems too good to be true, report it.


    Bottom line is that in no case ever has a cammodel lost her job or even most of the money by reporting a suspicious client or transaction. To delay reporting in hopes of future rewards is to invite disaster.

    “Chargeback protection” does not work in cases of fraud, it is not a substitute for common sense. It also has its limits in legit chargeback situations.

    Because of the recent high volume of fraud, websites are in a “zero tolerance” mode. This means immediate and permanent ban, sharing fraud reports with other websites, and billing the person on record (you) for the fraudulent amounts.

    Also, importantly, let the websites do their work. Bullying website staff or pressuring them publicly or privately does not help you in any way. If the money is legit, it takes at most 24-48 hours to clear so patience will pay off. If the money isn't legit, you may not see that money, but everyone lives to cam another day.


    During this crisis situation, this is probably the best time to be a cammodel in the last 10 years. Use this time to the best of your abilities and you'll come out far ahead on the other side. However, its also one of the best times to be a scammer, fraudster, or con artist - desperate people make poor decisions.

    Cam safely.

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    God/dess arielbriel's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    SO wait a second, if the guy comes into your chat and starts tipping you and it turns out his card is stolen, we have to pay back the money? And we can get kicked off the site? What site(s) are these?

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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by arielbriel View Post
    SO wait a second, if the guy comes into your chat and starts tipping you and it turns out his card is stolen, we have to pay back the money? And we can get kicked off the site? What site(s) are these?
    Rarely is it like that. And its all of them.

    If its one guy, and he's your only client, and he's tipping you hundreds of dollars at a time every day for a week, and comes back each day with a new account...then yes, you're on the hook if you don't say anything.

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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    ...yikes
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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    It is always worth asking the site's support when big money starts coming in. I've always messaged my sites when I am seeing someone spend a lot of money. I ask them if there's any reason to be worried, I've never had them tell me that it looks suspicious. Usually they will inform me that the customer has been with them for X years and has been verified or whatever.

    I am never afraid to ask if it means I am covering my ass. I am sure most sites would prefer you ask and bring it to their attention at the start than when it has already done it's damage.

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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by justsometwat View Post
    It is always worth asking the site's support when big money starts coming in. I've always messaged my sites when I am seeing someone spend a lot of money. I ask them if there's any reason to be worried, I've never had them tell me that it looks suspicious. Usually they will inform me that the customer has been with them for X years and has been verified or whatever.

    I am never afraid to ask if it means I am covering my ass. I am sure most sites would prefer you ask and bring it to their attention at the start than when it has already done it's damage.
    Ive only had one whale and it was on an indie site - he wasnt listed as crooked but I still checked as well, was very pleased to find out he was a long term customer and this wasnt unusual hahaha

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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    So, it just happened to me. Yesterday.

    A guy I never saw before on my Streamate room, took me private ON streamate, and then, once in private, tipped me a bit more than $300. Mind you, I had a lovense vibe thing inside my butt, so when he tipped, obviously the lovense vibed a lot.

    However, the guy didn't even stay for the minimum 30 seconds, and left after the tip. That rang the bells for me and reported it.

    Now, I have those $100 on hold. Money I was counting on.

    Like, why the fuck am I being punished for reporting something that should be the site's job and not the model's on doing due dilligence? LITERALLY THAT'S WHY I CAM ON STREAMATE AND GIVE THEM 70% OF MY INCOME! It's the cam's site to do due dilligence on their clients, not on the model.

    I'm in fucking tears right now, because I was counting on that money to move out of an abusive place. I feel raped.

    I just can't believe it. WTF?
    Last edited by KarinaGiselle; 06-15-2020 at 07:00 PM.
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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    ^^How does SM have your money on hold? I've never heard of that before.

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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    It's the studio who put the hold after I reported that suspicious situation. I'm not sure if I should say the studio's name
    Last edited by KarinaGiselle; 06-15-2020 at 02:38 PM.
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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    ^^^You don't have to. Who did you report the situation to, SM or the studio?

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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    Thank you for posting about this, personally I get very few big spenders in fact nothing like those figures and I am very glad for that now. I'd be puzzled as to how a credit card company would accept a chargeback request for a year's worth of dodgy transactions, surely the card owner would have noticed far sooner? I'm sure it does happen though and good to be aware of it.

    I actually just contacted ManyVids about a clip order that was large (for me anyway) and they say they can't share information on buyers, fair enough, but they did say that if the buyer pays and I fulfil the order that it can't be charged back. I screenshotted that as I'm not 100% on that. Perhaps they mean that I wouldn't be liable.

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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by Genoveve View Post
    ^^^You don't have to. Who did you report the situation to, SM or the studio?
    To the studio directly first, they were the ones who put the money on hold immediately, which is BS
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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by fetishqueen View Post
    Thank you for posting about this, personally I get very few big spenders in fact nothing like those figures and I am very glad for that now. I'd be puzzled as to how a credit card company would accept a chargeback request for a year's worth of dodgy transactions, surely the card owner would have noticed far sooner? I'm sure it does happen though and good to be aware of it.

    I actually just contacted ManyVids about a clip order that was large (for me anyway) and they say they can't share information on buyers, fair enough, but they did say that if the buyer pays and I fulfil the order that it can't be charged back. I screenshotted that as I'm not 100% on that. Perhaps they mean that I wouldn't be liable.
    100% people can chargeback - however Ive never ever had one on MV so I assume they meant you arent liable

    I run a vanilla business, got a chargeback and proved that I'd delivered - the payment processor took the money as the person claimed stolen card so they definitely can (it was $3 to lmao)

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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by KarinaGiselle View Post
    To the studio directly first, they were the ones who put the money on hold immediately, which is BS
    Is there a reason why you reported it to the studio and not to SM instead? I used to be with a studio, but seeing as how SM is who actually dealt with the actual customer transactions/credit cards/payment it would never have occurred to me to report suspicious activity to anywhere other than SM. I don't know if it's different with some studios.

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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    Because I didn't think too much about the situation and all that was on my mind at the time was this thread. I am in the autistic spectrum, guess my mind works in funny ways.


    I wanted to do the right thing, and now I'm in jeopardy for complying.

    Maybe next time I'll just shut up and let the sites deal with this mess.

    I signed up with the studio because I trusted them, as they're part of the camgirl community, being the owner a camgirl in the past. This is just wrong.
    Last edited by KarinaGiselle; 06-15-2020 at 04:21 PM.
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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by Genoveve View Post
    ^^How does SM have your money on hold? I've never heard of that before.
    What Streamate does is take it back, which can be frustrating but essentially the same issue if you're getting paid every week or two.

    As a daily pay studio, we have issues with that because the money comes out of us. If its a particularly large amount of money (like the incidence we had and continue to have), it can create major issues.

    Our policy is as stated above, where we put the funds on hold while they're checked out. If they get a clean bill of health, they're released immediately. Its a small inconvenience, but its still faster than waiting until the end of the pay period. No other income earned is placed on hold, just the amount of that particular transaction.

    Both us and Streamate have been hypervigilant to this latest wave of fraudsters. They've slightly changed their tactics to "blend in" better, but it still occurs, at the rate of about 1 or 2 per week. We have our own script that checks for suspicious transactions each day before payouts, and SM does as well.

    A model reporting it certainly looks better than one that doesn't in any given situation, that's the key advantage. In this model's particular case, it is one that would have been caught with the script regardless before it was paid out.

    Quote Originally Posted by fetishqueen View Post
    Thank you for posting about this, personally I get very few big spenders in fact nothing like those figures and I am very glad for that now. I'd be puzzled as to how a credit card company would accept a chargeback request for a year's worth of dodgy transactions, surely the card owner would have noticed far sooner? I'm sure it does happen though and good to be aware of it.

    I actually just contacted ManyVids about a clip order that was large (for me anyway) and they say they can't share information on buyers, fair enough, but they did say that if the buyer pays and I fulfil the order that it can't be charged back. I screenshotted that as I'm not 100% on that. Perhaps they mean that I wouldn't be liable.
    We've seen it happen, that's what we can say about it. Unfortunately sharing the details may make it easier for other shady clients to do the same.

    Again to reiterate though, a model that is pro-active and brings it to the attention of the site or studio will always have a more favorable outcome in the long term. The site can take additional measures to ensure the funds are secured, or can at least quickly let you know they aren't so you don't end up giving away a free show or product. Taking into account the whole picture of your sales and client record, certain accommodations can be made. Yes, there are always practical limits to chargeback protection, but it sounds like they took those into account and you didn't exceed them.

    Quote Originally Posted by KarinaGiselle View Post
    Because I didn't think too much about the situation and all that was on my mind at the time was this thread. I am in the autistic spectrum, guess my mind works in funny ways.


    I wanted to do the right thing, and now I'm in jeopardy for complying.

    Maybe next time I'll just shut up and let the sites deal with this mess.

    I signed up with the studio because I trusted them, as they're part of the camgirl community, being the owner a camgirl in the past. This is just wrong.
    You're not in any jeopardy for complying with anything. As always, if the funds are legitimate they will be released to you in a timely manner. Unfortunately we can't rush the process, but generally its pretty quick.

    If you have issues with the policy, you're free to make suggestions or discuss your specific situation with our support staff.

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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    To be honest, big amounts on SM don’t seem that suspicious to me. Users can’t raise the limit right away and I’m pretty sure $300 is more than what they start with. Which tells me he was probably a legit customer that managed to bump his limit over time. Hackers don’t ever use the same account, so highly unlikely somebody hacks into an account and spends constantly to up the daily spending. I would be more cautious about 100-200ish, at least on SM.

    Also, there is another way to tell how old an account is, you just have to check the ID number and compare it to one’s of your regulars. If it’s a bigger number, then he’s a newer guy. But that doesn’t always tell you more (how new he is, for example). Sometimes, maybe you are lucky enough to find out that a big spender is a regular of SM, based on his account ID.

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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by KatyBoleyn View Post
    What Streamate does is take it back, which can be frustrating but essentially the same issue if you're getting paid every week or two.
    When did SM start doing chargebacks though? This is what I don't understand. As far as I'm aware, we aren't responsible for them and I've never had one. I've heard of girls' accounts being closed because there were so many fraudulent customers spending on them that SM assumed they were complicit but that's it.

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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by euro_princess View Post
    To be honest, big amounts on SM don’t seem that suspicious to me.
    For me it depends on how they spend it. There's been a couple times where a guy who's literally had zero interaction with me before and has only been in my chatroom for like 40 seconds out of nowhere will tip like $350. And then they'll be like "Can you get topless?" and I'll be like "No." because I don't do flashes in free chat. And then they just bounce. Like literally spending big amounts indiscriminately with zero care. That always seems fraudulent to me and I do report them.

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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by Genoveve View Post
    When did SM start doing chargebacks though? This is what I don't understand. As far as I'm aware, we aren't responsible for them and I've never had one. I've heard of girls' accounts being closed because there were so many fraudulent customers spending on them that SM assumed they were complicit but that's it.
    Its complicated, but its something they have been doing lately. We've gotten a few. When models are independent, what would happen is they basically let the model go because most models would bounce after such a thing. For example, would you stick around to work off a $10,000 debt, guilty or not?

    With studios, they can stick the bill to the studio account instead. Usually this isn't an issue if the model is getting paid when the studio gets paid. The amount would just be deducted and zero out. The problem comes when its systemic and happens over multiple pay periods.

    Now, in the case of us being daily pay, its a big issue. We end up eating it in most cases, the model already has the money. All we've done is extend just the suspicious tips and earnings until the next pay period or until they're cleared if its sooner. Its the most common sense solution we could come up with. We found out the hard way that we simply don't have the margins to continuously eat large fraud charges. The choice is either to cut bonuses and increase fees (which would make nobody happy) or to simply run "sanity checks" put a 2-3 day waiting period on suspicious transactions - its an easy call.

    I think there's also some confusion as to what is a chargeback and what is fraudulent stolen card use. For models, its effectively the same thing (or they can see it as such), but the underlying circumstances are different with different implications. Chargeback protection kicks in when a client does a legitimate purchase and then decides to take his money back via his card provider. These can be fought and certain "insurance" schemes exist via billers to handle this situation. Fault is very easy to determine - the model did the show or didn't. If he/she did, then obviously she's not at fault. It was really him spending his own money and he was really there.

    With a stolen card being used, all bets are off and its entirely at the discretion of the website how its handled. This is not a chargeback in technical terms, the payment was never legit to begin with - the money never existed. If you have a reasonable amount of guard up and report when it warrants, then it greatly helps your case and preserves your integrity with the site. You are the first line of defense in protecting your future income.
    Last edited by KatyBoleyn; 06-15-2020 at 08:44 PM.

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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    Omg, this reminds me how I had to push away a few thousands of dollars, from a member who came out of nowhere and spent like $3000 in a few days with me.
    I am with Boleyn, so I had my payments on hold untill they checked if he is legit. And I am glad they did. The guy turned out fishy anyway, asking for different ways of payment, such as paypal, claiming he can't use visa anymore. That's when I said stop and I lost him. The fact that he was reminding me how much he can keep spending on me, if he already spent so much within the first week, made me think that I took the right decision.
    And maaaan, it's hard, especially when you're in a bad financial situation. But hey, it's camming, we can sit on cam 16 hours shifts for a few days and make what we need, if things get desperate.
    That's why I never get happy immediately, when I get a whale, out of nowhere, I prefer to report that and have him checked, than having the payment done and find out that it was a fraud. Is way more painful if you get to spend the money, because you can't really afford to pay back (not everyone makes 5 figures a month) or work on a debt. I remember it happened to me on Ifriends. I had a $500 (ish, can't remember well, that is from a few years ago) chargeback, so basically, to make it back to $0, I had to work for free. Ifriends wasn't covering the chargeback from tips, only from privates.
    That was a very painful lesson, that made me report every single suspicious whale and prefer the immediate chargeback, if he's a fraud, than being paid and dealing with it later.
    * Me, everytime a member has 100 requests in freechat, like he's at a 5 Stars All Inclusive Holiday Resort *

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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    Clients that change payment methods or website payment platforms frequently.

    How I'll know on SM that a customer has changed his payment methods? I see only gold which he tip.
    Last edited by XSelinex; 06-16-2020 at 05:29 PM.

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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by XSelinex View Post
    Clients that change payment methods or website payment platforms frequently.

    How I'll know on SM that a customer has changed his payment methods? I see only gold which he tip.
    On SM specifically you won't, what you want to look for there is the same client with different screen names and client numbers.

    And this means on SM like Cutie said above, they will start to attack, bully, and beg you to take something other than Gold, like Paypal.

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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    I see a members somethimes who was in pvt before, but returns without any numbers on their nicknames, is it a glitch or they may fraud?

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    Default Re: New Wave of Fraud - Protect Yourself

    Customers do change accounts sometimes. Tho, is against the rules of SM’s payment processor to have more than 1 member account. But if they give you their camera (show their face), they are legit guys. No hacker would expose himself this way.

    If he uses multiple accounts in a short period of time (more than 2 accounts), major red flag. Reject any shows from him.

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