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Thread: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

  1. #351
    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    At the beginning of the month, we were having approximately 40,000 cases a day. Trump said, it will just go away and was calling for states to reopen. Fauci was saying we could see as many as 100,000 cases if we don't get things under control and warned that far worse conditions are ahead without new efforts to tamp down spread. We're now at more than 73,000 new cases a day. I think it's pretty clear who was right and who wasn't. Trump's response has been a disaster, one of the worst in the world, and we're one of the most medically advanced countries in the world and had earlier warning than most other western countries.
    As far as Fauci is concerned , it depends what day it is. His pronouncements about Covid have certainly changed.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Veteran Member kamiliam's Avatar
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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Because I am not aware of any connection between Covid and globalization ( unless it is more frequent international travel ) or climate change ?
    I mean yes, but they are all interrelated concepts/disciplines of study. If you believe in climate change you will see how globalization effects it. Maybe you don’t believe in the concepts, and I have zero desire to debate that, it only distracts from dealing with the present problem. But you asked where this all comes from and these are the accepted ideas. I only present the links/info for those curious who perhaps do not enjoy the merry go round of these debates. I learned long ago that it’s is difficult to change any type of true believers mind, and that includes me. I find it more helpful to offer concepts to those who maybe curious.

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by kamiliam View Post
    I mean yes, but they are all interrelated concepts/disciplines of study. If you believe in climate change you will see how globalization effects it. Maybe you don’t believe in the concepts, and I have zero desire to debate that, it only distracts from dealing with the present problem. But you asked where this all comes from and these are the accepted ideas. I only present the links/info for those curious who perhaps do not enjoy the merry go round of these debates. I learned long ago that it’s is difficult to change any type of true believers mind, and that includes me. I find it more helpful to offer concepts to those who maybe curious.
    If only everyone was as mellow and open minded as you.

    There'd be a lot less wars, I'm sure
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
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  6. #354
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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    As far as Fauci is concerned , it depends what day it is. His pronouncements about Covid have certainly changed.
    A lot less than an even more well known 'authority' has changed his tune.

    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

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  8. #355
    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post
    A lot less than an even more well known 'authority' has changed his tune.

    YES ! but Fauci is supposed to be the one with the experience and expertise. Even his supporters know that Trump cherry picks facts ; ignores those he doesn't like and spouts half baked opinions and ideas. Fauci is supposed to know this stuff. Public policy has been grounded on what he and the CDC have had to say. Sometimes they have been right and sometimes they have been wrong.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

  9. #356
    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by kamiliam View Post
    I mean yes, but they are all interrelated concepts/disciplines of study. If you believe in climate change you will see how globalization effects it. Maybe you don’t believe in the concepts, and I have zero desire to debate that, it only distracts from dealing with the present problem. But you asked where this all comes from and these are the accepted ideas. I only present the links/info for those curious who perhaps do not enjoy the merry go round of these debates. I learned long ago that it’s is difficult to change any type of true believers mind, and that includes me. I find it more helpful to offer concepts to those who maybe curious.
    I don't want to fall down the rabbit hole of debating climate change policy. Yes, the climate is changing . On that there ought to be little doubt. I am just not aware of how climatic changes are promoting corona viruses or animal to human transmission.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    In response to climate change: yeah so now we inhale our own carbon dioxide because we wear masks, and this contributes to less damage to the ozon layer. Just like Bill Gates and co. envisioned.

  11. #358
    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by Adelina View Post
    In response to climate change: yeah so now we inhale our own carbon dioxide because we wear masks, and this contributes to less damage to the ozon layer. Just like Bill Gates and co. envisioned.
    My personal favorite is feeding cattle lemongrass to cut down on their flatulence. Supposedly it works and reduces natural methane emissions. But we digress.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by Adelina View Post
    In response to climate change: yeah so now we inhale our own carbon dioxide because we wear masks, and this contributes to less damage to the ozon layer. Just like Bill Gates and co. envisioned.
    No we don't.
    https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...-for-car-crash

    Carbon dioxide molecules freely diffuse through the masks, allowing normal gas exchange while breathing.
    Please stop posting baseless conspiracy theories.

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    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Thank you Adelina but I posted about the mish moshing of the COVID mortality data WEEKS ago. No disrespect whatsoever but this is old news. Please see my posts - 24 ; 41 ;80; 83 and 96.

    I agree with you about heart attacks and other organic causes of death but I doubt that accident or gunshot victims who have positive COVID tests are counted as having died from COVID. If they are then that is an outrage but it would be news to me.
    Wife : Do you think I got fat from the quarantine ?
    Husband : You weren't exactly skinny to begin with.

    The Time Of Death was listed as 11:00 P.M.
    The Cause Of Death was Covid.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Man who died in motorcycle crash counted as COVID-19 death in Florida

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/cbs12.c...florida-report

    Hundreds of labs in Florida reported to the state that 100 percent of people they tested for Covid-19 had the virus. Other testing centers reported positivity rates upwards of 80 and 90 percent. In actuality, the positivity rates for most testing centers were often under 10 percent and usually under 20 percent.

    https://thefederalist.com/2020/07/15...navirus-tests/

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  18. #362
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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    As far as Fauci is concerned , it depends what day it is. His pronouncements about Covid have certainly changed.
    He never said they wouldn’t.

    He’s always said what most scientists say about things they are only just beginning to investigate: “Understand we don’t know much about this yet, so this could all change tomorrow but this is what we think right now.” (paraphrasing)
    Fiat justitia, pereat mundus.


    BTW, while we are on the subject, is it needed to point out the obvious: That it is just possible that if you are willing to judge the worth of someone simply by what you read on a website about them it might say a whole hell of a lot more about you than it says about the person you are judging?

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  20. #363
    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden_Rule View Post
    He never said they wouldn’t.

    He’s always said what most scientists say about things they are only just beginning to investigate: “Understand we don’t know much about this yet, so this could all change tomorrow but this is what we think right now.” (paraphrasing)
    Then maybe he ought to have been more reserved in his pronouncements until he DID know more. A LOT of what he had to say ended up in a 180 degree turn.
    It wasn't Trump who screwed up the first round of Covid testing. It was the CDC. Just one example.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Then maybe he ought to have been more reserved in his pronouncements until he DID know more. A LOT of what he had to say ended up in a 180 degree turn.
    It wasn't Trump who screwed up the first round of Covid testing. It was the CDC. Just one example.
    i suppose how one sees that is dependent on expectations.

    I’m not a believer in large institutions providing answers to problems in the first place. They are too “one size fits all” in their dynamic.

    I certainly understand, as an investigator myself, that you step into situations being asked for answers right away but one only knows what one knows when they know it, and at an outset that generally is only generalities based on like situations one is presuming fit the current circumstances.

    Fauci is an expert in the field. He knows those general criteria and I understood him to be given approximations in very wet cement at the outset, that would be highly likely to vary as more was learned and things changed from educated guessing to more fully formed reporting.
    Fiat justitia, pereat mundus.


    BTW, while we are on the subject, is it needed to point out the obvious: That it is just possible that if you are willing to judge the worth of someone simply by what you read on a website about them it might say a whole hell of a lot more about you than it says about the person you are judging?

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  23. #365
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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by Adelina View Post
    Man who died in motorcycle crash counted as COVID-19 death in Florida

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/cbs12.c...florida-report
    There have been more than 140,000 deaths from coronavirus. Just because you can find isolated cases of it being incorrectly recorded, doesn't change that. There has been such an increase of deaths from coronavirus in TX and AZ, that they're using refrigerator trucks to store dead bodies because the morgues are full.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-ari...navirus-deaths


    Quote Originally Posted by Adelina View Post
    Hundreds of labs in Florida reported to the state that 100 percent of people they tested for Covid-19 had the virus. Other testing centers reported positivity rates upwards of 80 and 90 percent. In actuality, the positivity rates for most testing centers were often under 10 percent and usually under 20 percent.

    https://thefederalist.com/2020/07/15...navirus-tests/
    The hospital system says that's wrong.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rt/5445139002/
    Last edited by eagle2; 07-23-2020 at 11:45 AM.

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    As far as Fauci is concerned , it depends what day it is. His pronouncements about Covid have certainly changed.
    Besides Fauci's education and experience, the main difference between Fauci and Trump is, Fauci wants to prevent as many deaths as possible and do what's best for the American people. Trump's only concern is what will help him get re-elected. If Trump is convinced that reopening the economy before it's safe to, holding large rallies without taking precautions to prevent the spread of the virus, and impeding testing will increase the likelihood of him getting re-elected, he will do all of this, even if it will result in another 100,000 Americans dying. The only reason he hasn't held more rallies is because nobody showed up at his rally in Tulsa, not because he's concerned about spreading the virus. Trump has no regard for the lives of Americans, including you, Adelina, and any of his other supporters. He's only concerned about what will benefit him.

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge



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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Video wouldn't play, I think it's a connection issue though. The bouncing Trump head on the chart is hilarious though.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Another study concluding masks don't do much.

    https://www.fhi.no/globalassets/doku...eport-2020.pdf

    Given the low prevalence of COVID-19 currently, even if facemasks are assumed to be effective, the difference in infection rates between using facemasks and not using facemasks would be small. Assuming that 20% of people infectious with SARS-CoV-2 do not have symptoms, and assuming a risk reduction of 40% for wearing facemask, 200 000 people would need to wear facemasks to prevent one new infection per week in the current epidemiological situation.

    The undesirable effects of facemasks include the risks of incorrect use, a false sense of security (leading to relaxation of other interventions), and contamination of masks. In addition, some people experience problems breathing, discomfort, and problems with communication. The proportion of people who experience these undesirable effects is uncertain. However, with a low prevalence of COVID-19, the number of people who experience undesirable effects is likely to be much larger than the number of infections prevented.

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    Veteran Member Raziel's Avatar
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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Adelina, do you believe in Bigfoot?
    Sarchasm (n): The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it

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  33. #371
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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Closing this thread temporarily.

    Technically ALL political threads and posts are against the rules, but in these trying times I've been 'trying' to keep them open as I know people need an outlet.

    But too much misinformation, conspiracy theories, and drama.

    I might open it back up soon, we'll see.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

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