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Thread: They Protesting n Shit

  1. #251
    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    All you do is make up your own "facts".

    From:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public...-Clinton's

    Clinton's job approval rating ranged from 36% in mid-1993 to 64% in late 1993 and early 1994.[1] In his second term, his rating consistently ranged from the high-50s to the high-60s.[1][2] After his impeachment proceedings in 1998 and 1999, Clinton's rating reached its highest point at 73% approval.[3] He finished with a Gallup poll approval rating of 65%,[4] higher than that of every other departing president measured since Harry Truman.[5]
    Clinton didn't run in 2000. He'd just survived impeachment and the economy was about to tank. Which it started to do during the Bush-Gore contest.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

  2. #252
    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Practically every year GDP growth was over 2% when Obama was in office. Can you read a simple chart? There was no difference in GDP growth between Obama's last 6 years and Trump's 3 years. The only reason why unemployment was lower under Trump before 2020, is because Trump started out with 4.5% unemployment and Obama started out with 9%. 2014 - 2015 saw the largest increase in household income in more than 15 years.

    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/blog...ince-1998.html

    I just don't know what it is with you, that you deny facts even when they're presented clearly right in front of you. I just posted a chart showing there was no difference in gdp growth between Obama's last 6 years and Trump's first 3, yet you deny it. In a previous discussion, you denied that Trump seriously asked about injecting disinfectant to cure coronavirus, even after being shown a video of him specifically saying it.

    Before we go any further, please answer this. Are you going to accept all facts presented to you, or are you just going to deny facts you don't like? If you're not going to accept facts, there is no point in discussing this further.
    NOT THIS TIME YOU DIDN'T. Your chart shows job growth ( or shrinkage ). GDP is clearly shown to have gone UP especially in 2018 after Trump's tax cuts kicked in. GDP routinely sucked under Obama. For all EIGHT Years ! The fact remains is that we had good economic growth under Trump. Not as much as I would like but MUCH better than under Obama. We had record low unemployment ; increased job growth; increased wage growth ; record low black unemployment ; record low Hispanic unemployment ; millions off Food Stamps after Obama set records and an increased labor participation rate. We also had increases in manufacturing jobs when under Obama they routinely disappeared.

    Almost all GDP growth under Obama and almost all job growth was in the PUBLIC Sector. While with Trump it has been primarily in the Private Sector. The deficits result primarily from spending growth. Federal revenues went UP after Trump's tax cuts. As they did after Bush The Dumber's ; and Clinton's Capital Gains Tax cuts ; and Reagan's and JFK's ( passed by LBJ ).
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

  3. #253
    Featured Member Raziel's Avatar
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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Says who ? I am not familiar with either scenario ever being presented.
    Google it. I'm not interested in the drama.
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    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel View Post
    Google it. I'm not interested in the drama.
    You posted it. You prove it.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Featured Member Raziel's Avatar
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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    No. Fuck off with that shit. Not interested. Just disbelieve me.
    Sarchasm (n): The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it

  6. #256
    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel View Post
    No. Fuck off with that shit. Not interested. Just disbelieve me.
    If you insist on posting factually delinquent material I can't stop you.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Featured Member Raziel's Avatar
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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    I'm not gonna do your research for you. Period. I have more important shit to do.

    Can we move past this now?
    Sarchasm (n): The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it

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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    NOT THIS TIME YOU DIDN'T. Your chart shows job growth ( or shrinkage ). GDP is clearly shown to have gone UP especially in 2018 after Trump's tax cuts kicked in.
    No it didn't. GDP growth declined in 2018. GDP growth in 2014 was higher than any year under Trump. Here is the chart again. 2018 starts at the second gray vertical line from the right. The blue horizontal line goes down after that line. 2014 is the second vertical gray line from the left. The blue line is higher after 2014 than it is during any time Trump is in office.



    Now please answer these questions:

    Did GDP growth go up or down after 2018?

    Was GDP growth in 2014 higher than any year Trump was in office?

    If you're not able to answer these questions correctly, there is no point in having further discussion.

  9. #259
    Featured Member Raziel's Avatar
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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Clinton didn't run in 2000. He'd just survived impeachment and the economy was about to tank. Which it started to do during the Bush-Gore contest.
    Dude, he'd already served two terms. OF COURSE he didn't run. But he wanted to. Why do you not understand this? I posted Amendment 22 of the CONSTITUTION, did you not bother to read it? Have you EVER read the Constitution?

    He cannot run more than twice! IT'S IN THE FUCKING CONSTITUTION!!!!
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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel View Post
    Dude, he'd already served two terms. OF COURSE he didn't run. But he wanted to. Why do you not understand this? I posted Amendment 22 of the CONSTITUTION, did you not bother to read it? Have you EVER read the Constitution?

    He cannot run more than twice! IT'S IN THE FUCKING CONSTITUTION!!!!
    This is ridiculous. I never disagreed that Clinton was term-limited. Respectfully, I am VERY familiar with what the Constitution says.
    If Clinton wanted a third term then too bad , too sad , no way Jose. I think Hillary's RUNS were designed to give Bill a third and maybe a fourth term.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Featured Member Raziel's Avatar
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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    Hillary would have been the president. It doesn't matter what Bill wants. SHE is the president. Or NOT, as it turned out.

    The Dems just picked the wrong candidate.
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    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Trump is not a dictator. Trump wants to be a dictator. He doesn't have the power to have people killed or taken away forever, but he probably would if he could. He's already had Michael Cohen thrown in jail to try to prevent him from writing a book about him, which could have been a death sentence with the coronavirus oubreak in jails and prisons.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/n...rump-book.html

    Trump's done everything within his power to prevent the press or anyone else from writing anything negative about him. He calls the press, "enemy of the people", knowing this will result in reporters being inundated with death threats, as well as acts of violence against the press by his supporters. He tries to discredit anything negative reported about him as "fake news" or a "hoax". He refused to condemn Saudi Arabia for brutally murdering a journalist, and blocked sanctions. He refuses to condemn Putin for poisoning his opponents.


    Again, Trump isn't a dictator. He wants to be one. He doesn't have the power to have his critics killed or thrown in jail, but he probably would if he could. He's called for 10 year prison sentences for toppling statues, which is a form of protest. Again, he wanted to use active duty military, including tanks, against peaceful protesters.

    You're the one who doesn't know what happened in that era. Hitler did not take over large chunks of the private economy. He privatized state owned businesses.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Econom..._business_ties

    Hitler did not disarm the population. He liberalized gun laws. The previous government banned gun ownership. Hitler changed the law to allow nazis to own guns. If Trump were to become dictator, he most likely would not disarm the population, since many of his supporters own guns.


    Google a history lesson re: President of the United States, separation of powers, and limits of power of POTUS. Trump wants to take control of the military, the economy and information. He doesn't have the power or the support to do it as of now, and he is also stupid and incompetent, which has hurt his efforts. It doesn't mean he wouldn't do it if he could, and there's no telling how far he will get if he's given another 4 years. He's already tried to get opponents and critics put in jail, use the military against American civilians, have a foreign power launch a criminal investigation against his opponent. He's publicly and privately tried to get reporters fired or taken off the air on Fox News, and in some cases was successful. He's tried to cancel the election in November, and he's told his supporters that he deserves three terms because of the way he's been treated.



    It's an indisputable fact that Russia and Wikileaks were illegally interfering in our election, including illegally hacking email accounts of Clinton and the DNC, and the Trump campaign was collaborating with them. Paul Manaforte was sharing data with Russians. Roger Stone was in contact with Wikileaks and discussed the leaking of emails. Trump publicly called for Russia to hack Clinton's emails. It's also an indisputable fact that Michael Flynn lied to the FBI about conversations he had with the Russian Ambassador. It is the responsibility of the FBI to investigate these crimes, and the responsibility of the DOJ to prosecute them.
    I'm speechless eagle, truly. That was almost entirely a load of fantastical crap mixed with sheer speculation. Your sensitivity to his spouting off is a large part of it, but you're also bootstrapping a lot of spun nonsense to create a narrative that is not supported by his real actions. There are very real things that he COULD do if he truly wanted to impose his will upon others. He could use the FCC to mess with media broadcasting licenses, sick the IRS on his critics like Obama did, truly use the military on domestic soil under the National Emergencies Act (he used federal law enforcement with those riots, not military), have the FBI investigate his political opponents to find whatever dirt possible (sound familiar?), etc., etc.

    Flynn lied about something inconsequential and routine and was set up fro the get-go (read the IG report) / Cohen violated his probation / Hitler most certainly did disarm the populace and introduced Germany's first gun registry/ There is zero evidence that anyone from the Trump camp colluded with Russia (read the special investigation report)...I could go on, but I'm not going to keep doing your research for you. Read the underlying reports.

    Trump makes a lot of noise for sure, including complaining about the press, but in actual practice he has shown a tremendous restraint in his actual use of power.

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    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    No it didn't. GDP growth declined in 2018. GDP growth in 2014 was higher than any year under Trump. Here is the chart again. 2018 starts at the second gray vertical line from the right. The blue horizontal line goes down after that line. 2014 is the second vertical gray line from the left. The blue line is higher after 2014 than it is during any time Trump is in office.



    Now please answer these questions:

    Did GDP growth go up or down after 2018?

    Was GDP growth in 2014 higher than any year Trump was in office?

    If you're not able to answer these questions correctly, there is no point in having further discussion.
    You are right about GDP. I was right about all the other economic positives under Trump.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    I'm speechless eagle, truly. That was almost entirely a load of fantastical crap mixed with sheer speculation. Your sensitivity to his spouting off is a large part of it, but you're also bootstrapping a lot of spun nonsense to create a narrative that is not supported by his real actions. There are very real things that he COULD do if he truly wanted to impose his will upon others. He could use the FCC to mess with media broadcasting licenses, sick the IRS on his critics like Obama did, truly use the military on domestic soil under the National Emergencies Act (he used federal law enforcement with those riots, not military), have the FBI investigate his political opponents to find whatever dirt possible (sound familiar?), etc., etc.
    Trump did threaten to take away the licenses of TV stations.
    https://www.newsbreak.com/news/15352...avirus-actions

    Trump did want to use active duty military against protesters.
    https://federalnewsnetwork.com/defen...ops-to-states/

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Flynn lied about something inconsequential and routine and was set up fro the get-go (read the IG report) / Cohen violated his probation / Hitler most certainly did disarm the populace and introduced Germany's first gun registry/ There is zero evidence that anyone from the Trump camp colluded with Russia (read the special investigation report)...I could go on, but I'm not going to keep doing your research for you. Read the underlying reports.
    No, it wasn't inconsequential and routine. It was a very serious matter.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/14/u...ael-flynn.html

    You either don't know this or you don't care.

    Hitler did not disarm the population. You're repeating fringe conspiracy theories.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_g...ment#Criticism

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Trump makes a lot of noise for sure, including complaining about the press, but in actual practice he has shown a tremendous restraint in his actual use of power.
    You're disconnected from reality if you actually believe that. Trump pushes his power to the max. What's prevented him from going even further are limitations to his power and opposition, not restraint on his end. There's a reason why he was impeached and why multiple people associated with Trump are in prison.

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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    I can make the same abuse of power arguments about Obama. When Congress didn't act to his liking he used Executive Orders and arguably went well beyond his normal executive power particularly concerning immigration. He sicced the IRS on conservative groups he didn't like. His people ( Brennan , Rice , Biden , Jarrett etc. ) started the whole Trump collusion farce.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Featured Member Raziel's Avatar
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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    Again, Obama doesn't matter. He's no longer the PRESIDENT.

    And it is pretty clear Trump DID collude with Russia.
    Sarchasm (n): The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it

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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    You are right about GDP. I was right about all the other economic positives under Trump.
    Trump took office in the midst of an economic expansion, so there was no reason why the economy wouldn't continue to grow, or unemployment wouldn't continue to decline after he took office. Your other statements about Obama were incorrect too. I noticed that many Trump supporters'/Obama critics' views of economic performance during Obama's presidency, are based on the state of the economy in 2010 at the peak of the downturn, rather than when he left office. Manufacturing jobs increased over Obama's last 7 years, and the number of Americans on food stamps declined during Obama's second term. There was little change in trends after Trump took office.



    Food stamps:
    http://www.trivisonno.com/wp-content...mps-Yearly.jpg

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    Featured Member Raziel's Avatar
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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel View Post
    Hillary would have been the president. It doesn't matter what Bill wants. SHE is the president. Or NOT, as it turned out.

    The Dems just picked the wrong candidate.
    Incidentally, i think she would have made a terrible President as well. I can't believe she won the primary. HER, OF ALL PEOPLE. She's HATED. Of course Trump won. She had 25 years of political baggage. Very little of it good.

    But i still think she'd have been better that this yahoo we've got up there now. As much as i hate to admit that.
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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Trump did threaten to take away the licenses of TV stations.
    https://www.newsbreak.com/news/15352...avirus-actions

    Trump did want to use active duty military against protesters.
    https://federalnewsnetwork.com/defen...ops-to-states/


    No, it wasn't inconsequential and routine. It was a very serious matter.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/14/u...ael-flynn.html

    You either don't know this or you don't care.

    Hitler did not disarm the population. You're repeating fringe conspiracy theories.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_g...ment#Criticism



    You're disconnected from reality if you actually believe that. Trump pushes his power to the max. What's prevented him from going even further are limitations to his power and opposition, not restraint on his end. There's a reason why he was impeached and why multiple people associated with Trump are in prison.
    So Trump made noises that he never followed up on? Stop the presses! Lol.

    Also, if you're using a NY Times article, full of the usual empty hyperbole and spin, as a source document for anything then no wonder you're confused. Read the actual transcripts from his conversations with the Russian ambassador, which are public. It is not uncommon for incoming administration officials of a newly elected President to speak with foreign leaders in advance of taking office.

    Also below is a very precise account of exactly how and when Hitler disarmed the Jews and other "enemies of the state." It is a factual accounting, which may also be confusing given that you prefer to get your information from opinion pieces.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/...en-p-halbrook/

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    Featured Member Raziel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    the whole Trump collusion farce.
    I don't think it's a farce at all. I think he ALLOWED Russia to do what they did (and they did, it's indisputable, unless you're drinking the Kool-Aid that is), but he (other than that) had no real part in that. He's not smart enough and would have probably fucked the whole operation up. The guy talks WAY too much for a criminal enterprise like that. They don't like people who talk. He probably knew it was going on, but didn't know the details. Or he was threatened by Putin into finally shutting his fucking mouth. Putin probably has something on him, which means we have a compromised President who talks too fucking much.

    I mean, this guy reveals CLASSIFIED information PUBLICLY. How much more stupid can you get? How much more danger can you put America in? "Yeah, we got this new Nuke system." Thanks, very stable genius, you just told the entire world what we've got. Smart move. This happened recently, BTW.

    That entire Nuke facility is useless now. If a war starts where do you think the first place they'll go will be?

    Far better to keep that shit secret, SO THEY DON'T KNOW WE'VE GOT IT AND WE CAN HIT THEM OUT OF THE BLUE. But no, he just starts bragging about it on fucking TV!!!

    God, what a moron this guy is!!! He has NO CONCEPT of National Security. He wants to brag about everything!!!!

    "It's stupendous, the best Nuke facility in the HISTORY OF THE WORLD." Meanwhile Russa and China are both like "Where is this place." And now the spies come in. WHAT a fucking idiot. He thinks they're not gonna hear him? He's on FUCKING TV!!!

    This guy has no fucking filter.
    Last edited by Raziel; 09-17-2020 at 08:06 AM. Reason: TV
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    Featured Member Raziel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Says who ? I am not familiar with either scenario ever being presented.
    (I just noticed this one)

    I don't give a flying FUCK what you're familiar with. Your education is of no consequence to me.

    Reagan had ALZHEIMERS, he died of it. That is beyond dispute, we have records, but you'll have to find them yourself, i'm not going to spend hours looking for them without you PAYING me. And he DID want to overturn 22. That is also beyond dispute. But you'll have to look that up on your own.

    And again, i won't do your research for you. Do it yourself, or just live in blissful ignorance. I don't care.

    Just disbelieve me if you want. I didn't come here to talk to you, anyway.
    Last edited by Raziel; 09-17-2020 at 06:20 AM. Reason: disbelieve
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    Featured Member Raziel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    I think Hillary's RUNS were designed to give Bill a third and maybe a fourth term.
    By the way, this is a very sexist statement. That she was gonna be his mouthpiece? His Patsy?

    Whatever else Hillary was, she wasn't stupid. She knew just what kind of dude she was married to, all his affairs and such. But it would have been HER as the President, not him.

    I didn't like her either, but insinuating that it would have been BIIL'S third term is pretty fucking sexist.
    Last edited by Raziel; 09-17-2020 at 12:02 AM. Reason: Capitalize an S
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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel View Post
    By the way, this is a very sexist statement. That she was gonna be his mouthpiece? His Patsy?

    Whatever else Hillary was, she wasn't stupid. She knew just what kind of dude she was married to, all his affairs and such. But it would have been HER as the President, not him.

    I didn't like her either, but insinuating that it would have been BIIL'S third term is pretty fucking sexist.
    If Hillary were half as smart as you seem to think she is then she would have LISTENED to Bill when he advised her to emphasize economic issues and campaign more in Michigan and Wisconsin. She didn't. Trump did. He won those states and the election and in response Hillary went on a bender for months because she couldn't believe she lost and still hasn't accepted it. Neither have many other Dems which is why they want to blame Russia ( at most , they reached a few thousand people via Facebook ) ; or voter suppression ( preventing the dead from voting ALWAYS holds down Dem vote totals ) or God knows what else.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Trump took office in the midst of an economic expansion, so there was no reason why the economy wouldn't continue to grow, or unemployment wouldn't continue to decline after he took office. Your other statements about Obama were incorrect too. I noticed that many Trump supporters'/Obama critics' views of economic performance during Obama's presidency, are based on the state of the economy in 2010 at the peak of the downturn, rather than when he left office. Manufacturing jobs increased over Obama's last 7 years, and the number of Americans on food stamps declined during Obama's second term. There was little change in trends after Trump took office.



    Food stamps:
    http://www.trivisonno.com/wp-content...mps-Yearly.jpg
    This is one of those times when I must ask you a question I've had to ask you before : Did you LOOK at your own chart ? The trajectory of manufacturing job increases AFTER Trump took office is clearly much steeper than when Obama was in charge.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

  25. #275
    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: They Protesting n Shit

    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel View Post
    I don't think it's a farce at all. I think he ALLOWED Russia to do what they did (and they did, it's indisputable, unless you're drinking the Kool-Aid that is), but he (other than that) had no real part in that. He's not smart enough and would have probably fucked the whole operation up. The guy talks WAY too much for a criminal enterprise like that. They don't like people who talk. He probably knew it was going on, but didn't know the details. Or he was threatened by Putin into finally shutting his fucking mouth. Putin probably has something on him, which means we have a compromised President who talks too fucking much.

    I mean, this guy reveals CLASSIFIED information PUBLICLY. How much more stupid can you get? How much more danger can you put America in? "Yeah, we got this new Nuke system." Thanks, very stable genius, you just told the entire world what we've got. Smart move. This happened recently, BTW.

    That entire Nuke facility is useless now. If a war starts where do you think the first place they'll go will be?

    Far better to keep that shit secret, SO THEY DON'T KNOW WE'VE GOT IT AND WE CAN HIT THEM OUT OF THE BLUE. But no, he just starts bragging about it on fucking TV!!!

    God, what a moron this guy is!!! He has NO CONCEPT of National Security. He wants to brag about everything!!!!

    "It's stupendous, the best Nuke facility in the HISTORY OF THE WORLD." Meanwhile Russa and China are both like "Where is this place." And now the spies come in. WHAT a fucking idiot. He thinks they're not gonna hear him? He's on FUCKING TV!!!

    This guy has no fucking filter.
    I actually agree with you , in part. Trump IS a braggart. One of a number of things I don't like about him.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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