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Thread: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

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    Default As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...wn-your-guard/

    From the above article:

    Residents in reopening states should follow the same public health guidance as when they were under shelter-in-place orders: Stay six feet away from people. Wash your hands frequently. Wipe down surfaces that others are touching.

    If you must return to work, be an advocate for your health: Ask your employer what practices are being put into place to protect workers and customers. Inquire about telecommuting, staggered shifts and other possibilities. Risk is cumulative: The more people you have contact with, the higher your risk of contracting the virus. Do your best to continue to limit your interactions with people outside of work.

    And try to reduce the risk for others, as well. Wear a mask when in public. Drive, walk or bike if you can, and reserve public transportation for those who have no other choice. Keep a daily diary of where you’ve been and with whom you spent time — that way, if you’re found to have covid-19, it will be easy to trace your contacts. Most important, stay home if you can. Social distancing is a privilege that many do not have.

    It will be tempting to see reopening as a return to our way of life before the coronavirus, but it will be anything but. As a society, we have made the decision to reopen before the science says we are ready. We are knowingly going back to where we were in mid-March, before the first exponential surge in infections and deaths. That surge will come again, but this time no one can say they didn’t see it coming.

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Also, if someone shows up to deliver, repair, or install something and they are not wearing PPE, don't let them in. I made this mistake and was left to wipe down every surface the guy touched.

    I called the store to complain and they acted like I expected the guy to wear a cross and a wreath of garlic.

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...wn-your-guard/

    From the above article:

    Residents in reopening states should follow the same public health guidance as when they were under shelter-in-place orders: Stay six feet away from people. Wash your hands frequently. Wipe down surfaces that others are touching.

    If you must return to work, be an advocate for your health: Ask your employer what practices are being put into place to protect workers and customers. Inquire about telecommuting, staggered shifts and other possibilities. Risk is cumulative: The more people you have contact with, the higher your risk of contracting the virus. Do your best to continue to limit your interactions with people outside of work.

    And try to reduce the risk for others, as well. Wear a mask when in public. Drive, walk or bike if you can, and reserve public transportation for those who have no other choice. Keep a daily diary of where you’ve been and with whom you spent time — that way, if you’re found to have covid-19, it will be easy to trace your contacts. Most important, stay home if you can. Social distancing is a privilege that many do not have.

    It will be tempting to see reopening as a return to our way of life before the coronavirus, but it will be anything but. As a society, we have made the decision to reopen before the science says we are ready. We are knowingly going back to where we were in mid-March, before the first exponential surge in infections and deaths. That surge will come again, but this time no one can say they didn’t see it coming.
    I think the areas with smaller cases are better off in reopening.

    I’ve heard Costco was enforcing masks for both employees AND members. And I noticed last time I was at target they handed face masks to people coming inside and was like “we’d like you to wear this”.

    It’s sad to see people dying because they are killing security who enforce government rules.

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by R-209 View Post
    Also, if someone shows up to deliver, repair, or install something and they are not wearing PPE, don't let them in. I made this mistake and was left to wipe down every surface the guy touched.

    I called the store to complain and they acted like I expected the guy to wear a cross and a wreath of garlic.
    The AC at my Mom's house needed repairs on Saturday. I called ahead to tell them there were mask and hand sanitizer in the mailbox and they needed to use them before approaching the house. That seemed to work because when I got there he was wearing a mask. Not all companies are on the same page and it sucks. But for those of us who are the most concerned we'll need to think ahead.
    This too shall pass. It might pass like a kidney stone. But it will pass.

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...wn-your-guard/

    From the above article:

    Residents in reopening states should follow the same public health guidance as when they were under shelter-in-place orders: Stay six feet away from people. Wash your hands frequently. Wipe down surfaces that others are touching.

    If you must return to work, be an advocate for your health: Ask your employer what practices are being put into place to protect workers and customers. Inquire about telecommuting, staggered shifts and other possibilities. Risk is cumulative: The more people you have contact with, the higher your risk of contracting the virus. Do your best to continue to limit your interactions with people outside of work.

    And try to reduce the risk for others, as well. Wear a mask when in public. Drive, walk or bike if you can, and reserve public transportation for those who have no other choice. Keep a daily diary of where you’ve been and with whom you spent time — that way, if you’re found to have covid-19, it will be easy to trace your contacts. Most important, stay home if you can. Social distancing is a privilege that many do not have.

    It will be tempting to see reopening as a return to our way of life before the coronavirus, but it will be anything but. As a society, we have made the decision to reopen before the science says we are ready. We are knowingly going back to where we were in mid-March, before the first exponential surge in infections and deaths. That surge will come again, but this time no one can say they didn’t see it coming.
    "The Science" told gov. Cuomo that he was going to need 30,000 ventilators or people would die waiting for them......he got 400 and didnt need that many. What the science has given us so far has ranged from pretty accurate, to wrong, to laughably wrong.

    There is still so much they dont know about it. What percentage of cases would masks and social distancing eliminate, as opposed to lockdown? They dont know, and since they dont know, everything is just a guess. I think Georgia opened up 3 weeks ago and people were saying the new surge would kill thousands. Cases have continued to drop there. Chicago area surged almost 2 months after lockdown started. Would it have surged if we just social distanced and masked? probably, would it have been a lot worse? who knows.

    Do you remember the whole idea was to bend the curve..... slow the spread because we didnt want hospitals to get overrun. It was the prudent move because we didnt know what would happen. Well, we did that, and all the US hospitals handled the initial surge. Now we know. We can handle it.

    If you are at risk, continue to take the measures you have been taking....you do not want to get it. Everyone else? Live your lives.

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by lemiwinks31 View Post
    "The Science" told gov. Cuomo that he was going to need 30,000 ventilators or people would die waiting for them......he got 400 and didnt need that many. What the science has given us so far has ranged from pretty accurate, to wrong, to laughably wrong.
    That had nothing to do with science. Nobody knew how many cases there were in NY and when it would peak.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemiwinks31 View Post
    There is still so much they dont know about it. What percentage of cases would masks and social distancing eliminate, as opposed to lockdown? They dont know, and since they dont know, everything is just a guess. I think Georgia opened up 3 weeks ago and people were saying the new surge would kill thousands. Cases have continued to drop there. Chicago area surged almost 2 months after lockdown started. Would it have surged if we just social distanced and masked? probably, would it have been a lot worse? who knows.
    Scientists and doctors do know how it spreads and how it can be prevented. We do know that social-distancing and shelter at home policies work. CA and WA implemented these policies a week or two before NY did, and ended up with far fewer cases and deaths.

    Cases are not dropping in GA. The figures they came up with were flawed.

    https://www.alternet.org/2020/05/its...19-infections/

    It's too early to know whether or not reopening non-essential businesses in GA has resulted in a significant number of new cases and deaths. The first confirmed cases in the US occurred in mid-January, but we didn't see a major surge in cases or deaths until mid-March.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemiwinks31 View Post
    Do you remember the whole idea was to bend the curve..... slow the spread because we didnt want hospitals to get overrun. It was the prudent move because we didnt know what would happen. Well, we did that, and all the US hospitals handled the initial surge. Now we know. We can handle it.
    New York hospitals were overwhelmed with cases, and many rural areas don't have anywhere near the hospital capacity or the number of health care professionals as New York City does.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemiwinks31 View Post
    If you are at risk, continue to take the measures you have been taking....you do not want to get it. Everyone else? Live your lives.
    Please don't give medical advice without knowing whether or not it's true. You're not a doctor or scientist, and neither am I. The most either of us can accurately say is, maybe reopening states early will result in a major increase in cases and deaths and maybe it won't. Many doctors and scientists are saying that reopening too early will. Hopefully this won't happen, but there's no way to know for sure. Everyone is free to do whatever the law allows, but if you want to avoid catching the virus, it is best to avoid risks as much as possible until we know for certain it is safe.

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    I've read numerous cases of people insisting that the lockdowns aren't necessary and people should be allowed to go to bars and restaurants, and those same people ended up catching the virus and dying. Here's one:

    https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...lii-story.html

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    The simple fact is that nobody has a corner on "the science." Sure we know what can do to help temporarily mitigate the spread, but nobody has a solid handle on spread or mortality rates. The "scientists" were all crying that Florida closed too late and would have tens if not hundreds of thousands of deaths. Two months later FL has about 2,000 deaths, almost all seniors and not a single one under 24 years old. We just don't know.

    But what we do know is that this thing is not going away. We know this because it is still here despite 2 months of lockdowns in many areas. So what will continuing lockdowns do besides demolish our economy yet more? We have flattened the curve, but we now know that whether we open up now or in a month, there will be a resurgence. Since we just don't have any more economic devastation left in us, we need to figure out a better way manage this, like letting it run a more natural course while aggressively protecting the most vulnerable.

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by R-209 View Post
    Also, if someone shows up to deliver, repair, or install something and they are not wearing PPE, don't let them in. I made this mistake and was left to wipe down every surface the guy touched.

    I called the store to complain and they acted like I expected the guy to wear a cross and a wreath of garlic.

    Cross and garlic would probably be more convenient and comfortable.

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Just like I have a little black book for my boy toys, I’ll have a little black book for my corona trips-a Corona black book.
    Last edited by moneybags; 05-19-2020 at 01:52 AM.

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by lemiwinks31 View Post
    "The Science" told gov. Cuomo that he was going to need 30,000 ventilators or people would die waiting for them......he got 400 and didnt need that many. What the science has given us so far has ranged from pretty accurate, to wrong, to laughably wrong.
    https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/5097170002

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    If I recall correctly most ventilator patients did not survive and doctors decided it might be better not to use them.

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    The simple fact is that nobody has a corner on "the science." Sure we know what can do to help temporarily mitigate the spread, but nobody has a solid handle on spread or mortality rates. The "scientists" were all crying that Florida closed too late and would have tens if not hundreds of thousands of deaths. Two months later FL has about 2,000 deaths, almost all seniors and not a single one under 24 years old. We just don't know.

    But what we do know is that this thing is not going away. We know this because it is still here despite 2 months of lockdowns in many areas. So what will continuing lockdowns do besides demolish our economy yet more? We have flattened the curve, but we now know that whether we open up now or in a month, there will be a resurgence. Since we just don't have any more economic devastation left in us, we need to figure out a better way manage this, like letting it run a more natural course while aggressively protecting the most vulnerable.
    Maybe not in FL, but there have been young children/adults who have died too. It's not just old ppl.

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge



    Germs and Immune System...

    https://youtu.be/JSbT7JVNEU4


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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyanka View Post
    Maybe not in FL, but there have been young children/adults who have died too. It's not just old ppl.
    I read that the hospitals hardest hit were forced between saving a young person vs saving a senior citizen.....

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Me personally. I have restricted my public adventures to business that take precautions

    Biggest mistake I made going for ice cream, no one wearing masks, elderly woman limping around - Idk of she was like that from illness or age pretending to be completely oblivious to social distancing etc whilst taking her sweet time holding up the line, then incomes a damn family of 12 (gotta have been over capacity) and to make it worse dude started coughing

    I ran out that mf!!!!

    Nasty jokers

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by miss.a.p1600 View Post
    I read that the hospitals hardest hit were forced between saving a young person vs saving a senior citizen.....
    This is sad. Senior citizens lives matter too. When I was told that in Spain they were euthanizing older folks who were suffering, I cried. I imgained those being my grandparents. So sad. People getting euthanized like animals. Terrible.

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyanka View Post
    Maybe not in FL, but there have been young children/adults who have died too. It's not just old ppl.
    It's overwhelmingly old people everywhere. For people under 60 this thing is far less deadly than the common flu and we don't crater our economy every year for that. As many states are now realizing, we need a more sane response to this. People still have to work and live.

    Now with that said, I understand NY's response more than most. NYC was hit quite hard and the loss of life has been tragic. Sending infected old people back to nursing homes sure as hell didn't help, but the population density and public transportation crowding alone make it hard to control there. But most places are not like NYC and should not be treated like they are.

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    It's overwhelmingly old people everywhere. For people under 60 this thing is far less deadly than the common flu and we don't crater our economy every year for that.
    That's not true. An even higher percentage of people dying from the flu are the elderly.



    In New York City, approximately 26% of the people who died from coronavirus were younger than 65 years old. If the percentage is the same at the national level, it would mean approximately 26,000 Americans younger than 65 years old have died from coronavirus over the past 2 months.

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    That's not true. An even higher percentage of people dying from the flu are the elderly.

    In New York City, approximately 26% of the people who died from coronavirus were younger than 65 years old. If the percentage is the same at the national level, it would mean approximately 26,000 Americans younger than 65 years old have died from coronavirus over the past 2 months.
    In Florida it is 83% of deaths 65 and older. The big tranche after that is 55-65. NY is in a similar position, with the next big tranche at 55-65. Young people are at fairly low risk of serious consequences and children have almost no risk (unlike the flu).

    I do have to say though that there are debates as to whether NY is playing it straight with the numbers. We already know that they are under-counting their nursing home related deaths, by excluding any of those transported to a hospital to die, in order to white wash their atrocious decision to send infected people back to them.

    But quibble all we like over precise %s, it is a disease that overwhelmingly affects old people and those with pre-existing medical conditions. We have ample evidence of this now. Armed with this knowledge, we can find a saner way to approach containment in the future. Florida may be a good model. By shutting down access to nursing homes at the outset and getting sick people isolated as soon as possible, FL probably saved hundreds if not thousands of its elderly while keeping the economy open 2 weeks longer than most places.

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Relatively few people under 40 have died and of those almost all had some sort of pre-existing condition like asthma ; obesity ; heart disease; weakened immune system etc. Deaths are overwhelmingly concentrated in the elderly and/or physically compromised.

    There ARE a few children getting a Kawasaki Syndrome like illness directly related to Covid-19 but almost all have recovered. Likewise , almost all those under 40 who get it are either asymptomatic or recover. And most recoveries do not require hospitalization.

    The whole purpose of "flattening the curve" was SUPPOSED to be to keep our hospitals from being overwhelmed as they were in Italy. For the most part, we succeeded.

    In N.Y. ; N.J. ; Michigan ; Pennsylvania and Illinois nursing homes and adult living facilities were REQUIRED to take Corona patients despite NOT being set up or staffed for same and despite telling health authorities that they were not ready or equipped. With devastating results. Florida , on the other hand focused on protecting the elderly and does NOT have death or illness numbers that the aforementioned states have.

    Btw, we DO know how Covid-19 is spread. It is an aerosol virus like other corona viruses. Hence , wearing masks is a good idea. Especially indoors. It dies in direct sunlight ; on hot sand or other outdoor surfaces ; in salt water so one of the safest places to be is on a beach. The latest studies have shown that most infections occur AT HOME. Kids came home from school ; folks came home from work carrying the virus ( mostly asymptomatically ) and infected their roomates and fellow apartment and house dwellers. Especially among minority and low income groups who often live in multi-generational and crowded settings. In NYC , those neighborhoods hit the hardest in Brooklyn , Queens and the Bronx are also the poorest and have the most crowded housing.

    All that being said , is it not time to compare Covid-19 casualties to all those dead , dying or suffering serious heath problems from the consequences of economic destruction ? Unemployment at record numbers ; alcoholism way up ; drug use way up ; OD's way up; suicide way up ; domestic violence way up ; child abuse way up ; undiagnosed and/or untreated cancer ( and other serious health problems) way up; business and personal bankruptcy way up . Some hospitals are on the brink of insolvency. So are many states, cities and municipal agencies. We simply must reopen and soon.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 05-21-2020 at 12:21 PM.
    A
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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyanka View Post
    This is sad. Senior citizens lives matter too. When I was told that in Spain they were euthanizing older folks who were suffering, I cried. I imgained those being my grandparents. So sad. People getting euthanized like animals. Terrible.
    Spain does not have legal euthanasia like The Netherlands or Belgium and a few other countries. They DID do triage to manage limited resources and equipment and let some very sick , very old patients die to try and save younger and healthier patients. If they went beyond some sort of enhanced DNR I am not aware of it. Although in France and perhaps some other countries they have traditionally and VERY quietly used morphine overdoses in extreme cases . It's pretty much "Don't ask, don't tell " afaik.
    A
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    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
    If I recall correctly most ventilator patients did not survive and doctors decided it might be better not to use them.
    The death rate for ventilator patients is something like 85%. Doctors have been rethinking ventilator use and trying other forms of breathing support and respiratory therapy with better results.
    A
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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Btw , on the death rate. Afaik ALL states are deliberately fudging their numbers. If you die from a heart attack and test positive for
    Covid then Covid is listed as your cause of death ; pneumonia and test positive you are listed as a Covid victim. The WHO has been doing this for decades. So has the CDC. It is in the interest if states and cities because the higher their Covid rate the more aid they qualify for.

    Does anyone else find it odd that the world did NOT shut down for the Spanish Flu ? Or AIDS ? ( well, except for gay baths ) Or H1N1 ? Or Ebola ? Or the Hong Kong Flu ? The death rate for the Hong Kong Flu was comparable to Covid. I got it and survived although I was 11 at the time.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Does anyone else find it odd that the world did NOT shut down for the Spanish Flu ? Or AIDS ? ( well, except for gay baths ) Or H1N1 ? Or Ebola ? Or the Hong Kong Flu ? The death rate for the Hong Kong Flu was comparable to Covid. I got it and survived although I was 11 at the time.
    Spanish Flu killed over 40 million people. The world didn't shut down because there was a world war going on. AIDS and Ebola are transmitted through bodily fluid. You can't catch them just by breathing.

    Sweden kept their economy open and did nothing more than recommend that the elderly and people at risk stay home, as some of the people here are suggesting. So far, 3,871 people have died from the virus there. Neighboring Norway did shut down their economy, and so far, has had 235 deaths from the virus. 3,871 deaths in Sweden is the equivalent of 125,400 deaths in the US. 235 deaths in Norway is the equivalent of 14,361 deaths in the US.

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