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Thread: Oh me oh my so many tax forms... (US estimated taxes and dancer tax returns)

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    Featured Member Laurisa's Avatar
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    Default Oh me oh my so many tax forms... (US estimated taxes and dancer tax returns)

    Post #16 has the five forms you need for your federal income taxes, state income taxes (if you live in Michigan), personal income taxes, and self employment taxes. These includes the forms for making payments and filing your returns. (1040, 1040 Schedule C, MI-1040, 1040-ES, MI-1040ES). If you do not live in Michigan then you will need to find the appropriate forms for your state. I have the appropriate forms with search engines for Alabama, New Jersey and Ohio by putting the ID letters for the state in front of 1040 and 1040ES, try that for your state as a starting place. Check your state's official website if you cannot locate them via search engine.
    -------------------------------------------------------
    I pulled up Publication 334 which is the Tax Guide for small businesses available on the IRS' official website. It's for 2008 but I think most of the concepts are still the same:

    http://www.irs.gov/publications/p334/index.html

    I'm well aware of the 1040-ES and MI-1040ES (for my state) forms. I was under the impression that those two forms were to be filed every three months (4 quarters total) and that the 1040-ES covered federal income tax and the self employment tax (15.3 of earnings, which is 12.4% social security and 2.9% medicare) and that the MI-1040ES covered state income tax and personal income tax. I've got that part right, don't I?

    Melonie introduced me to the 1040 form Schedule C yesterday. Upon further examination of Publication 334 I became a bit bewildered as to 1040 form Schedule C's actual purpose. It is to report income and deductions from a sole proprietorship, which means you are supposed to use it to tell them how much you made and what business expenses you had. This is also where you would claim any dependents. Right so far?

    You are also supposed to include a payment voucher with these forms when sending in a quarterly estimated payment, correct?

    Okay, next. You attach Schedule C to the 1040-ES form that you send to the IRS for your federal income tax and self employment tax. Do you also attach schedule C to the MI-1040ES form that covers state income tax and personal income tax? As in, you would fill out Schedule C twice, or do you just attach the Schedule C, 1040-ES and MI-1040ES forms altogether? That's where I'm lost.

    From Publication 334:
    (snip)File your income tax return on Form 1040 and attach Schedule C or Schedule C-EZ. Enter the net profit or loss from Schedule C or Schedule C-EZ on page 1 of Form 1040. Use Schedule C to figure your net profit or loss from your business. If you operated more than one business as a sole proprietorship, you must attach a separate Schedule C for each business. You can use the simpler Schedule C-EZ if you operated only one business as a sole proprietorship, you did not have a net loss, and you meet the other requirements listed in Part I of the schedule.(snip)

    Couldn't you use Schedule C-EZ if you are a dancer and don't use camming or bachelor parties as part of your business? If you strictly went to the club, worked, and came home would you be eligible to use form 1040 Schedule C-EZ?

    I'm a bit confused about tax returns when you are self employed. If you are turning the 1040-ES, MI-1040ES (or form applicable to your state), and form 1040 Schedule C on April 15, June 15, Sept. 15, and Jan. 15 for each calendar year then what form(s) are you supposed to use coupled with these forms for your tax return?

    I read that you can usually file a federal and state income tax return simultaneously, but that it ultimately depends on your state laws. How do you go about this?

    I think I pretty much have the quarterly estimated payments and forms down, I just have some basic questions about those. My biggest problem is the tax returns. The tax return forms for a small business are due April 15th of the next calendar year, correct? (Ex: the 2009 tax return forms are due April 15, 2010). I really just need to know what forms to use.

    Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by Laurisa; 11-11-2009 at 02:44 PM.
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  3. #2
    Featured Member Laurisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    Okay, wait. I called my Grandma and she clarified a few things.

    You use the form 1040 Schedule C for your tax return which is due April 15. She said she just sends in payment vouchers quarterly and makes deductions on her Schedule C form for the calendar year. That doesn't sound right to me though.
    If you are willing to do for one year what other's won't, you can spend a lifetime doing what other's cant.


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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    That's right. The payments are based on estimated tax that will be owed in the next calendar year. So you may get a refund or still owe depending on your adjusted income.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    paragraph one - yes correct on all counts

    paragraph two - correct on everything except Schedule C is strictly for the reporting of profits and losses from your business. Schedule C only includes earnings and expenses that are directly relevant to business activities. The personal stuff - i.e. dependents - takes place on the 1040 form. Also, the bottom line from Schedule C ( net business income) in turn becomes a line entry on the 1040 form.

    paragraph three - yes you should print out the quarterly 1040-ES vouchers ( as well as state equivalent ) and include them in the same envelope as your quarterly estimated tax payment check. The SS # or TI# on the voucher is how the IRS is able to link the payments you made to your eventual 1040 tax return filing.

    paragraph four - you do NOT need to include any detail ... including Schedule C ... with your 1040-ES quarterly estimated tax filings and payments. Just the check sized voucher and the check sized check ! The only time that the IRS needs to see a Schedule C is in conjunction with your annual 1040 tax return filing in April. Same for state equivalents.

    paragraph five - technically you may be able to use Schedule C-EZ instead of schedule C. But if you wish to take deductions for dancer outfits, dancer shoes, a dancing related cell phone, accountant fees, or a host of other possibilities, they are better reported ( and thus less prone to prompt an audit ) via the individual categories of Schedule C.

    re simultaneous filing, it's not really simultaneous. Even if you are using electronic filing via TurboTax or something similar instead of snail mail, the federal and state filings go to different places and get processed separately. I would also highly recommend a separate mailing of your 1040 plus Schedule C tax return by April 15th from your mailing of first quarter estimated tax voucher and check by the same April 15th ... because the IRS people who process tax returns may NOT internally forward your estimated tax voucher and check to the different IRS people who process estimated taxes if you put everything in the same envelope !!!

    re April 15th, unless your business has specifically elected to use a fiscal year different than the calendar year, yes the tax return covering income earned from January 1 to December 31 of the previous year must be filed by April 15th of the subsequent year.

    For your own particular situation I would take a serious look at TurboTax Home & Business. It has everything you need in the way of built-in federal forms and electronic filing and estimated taxes ... and also has an automatically linked state tax package for Michigan available.

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    Featured Member Laurisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    Thanks Melonie.

    Is the TurboTax Home & Business good for identifying deductions and such?
    If you are willing to do for one year what other's won't, you can spend a lifetime doing what other's cant.


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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    ^^^ reasonably so. But the specific stuff for exotic dancing won't be in their database. However, the program will 'lead you by the hand' as to where to enter your dancing related business expense deductions.

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    Featured Member Laurisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ reasonably so. But the specific stuff for exotic dancing won't be in their database. However, the program will 'lead you by the hand' as to where to enter your dancing related business expense deductions.
    Thank you! I will definitely invest in that.
    If you are willing to do for one year what other's won't, you can spend a lifetime doing what other's cant.


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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    Well it's not the only program available ... but I have been using it for many years and am 98% happy.

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    Featured Member Laurisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    Melonie, will you look at the MI-1040ES form for a second:

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ta...S_260702_7.pdf

    I send those vouchers in quarterly and use the estimated tax computation worksheet to determine that quarters payment, I get that.

    Upon looking at the 1040-ES form:

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040.pdf

    I realized that there are no such vouchers and that the 1040-ES form should be used with Schedule C to send in your return. (I'm assuming you only use that 1040-ES form for your April 15th return as well). I understand that you would also send in a check April 15 in a separate envelope for the 1st quarter estimated payment of the new calendar year. (I know you can deduct your return from your 1st quarter payment if you paid an excess). What I don't understand is where are the vouchers for the federal income tax and self employment tax that you send in quarterly? I can't find them online.

    If the 1040-ES form is for your federal return along with Schedule C, but what form do you use for your state return? I know you use the Schedule C with your state return as well but those vouchers that I linked you to are not 'tax forms' for your state income tax return.

    EDIT:

    Simper way to say it if you don't understand all of what I'm asking.

    If you have to send in quarterly payments for federal and state taxes and also file a federal and state return then that's four different compartments in my mind.

    Use _________ for quarterly federal payment vouchers
    Use the MI-1040ES for quarterly state payment vouchers

    Use 1040-ES and form 1040 Schedule C for federal tax return
    Use _________ for state tax return

    Do you see what I'm asking? I know that with the MI-1040ES payment vouchers you send a check in for your personal income tax and state income tax, and I know that you use 1040-ES and 1040 Schedule C for the federal tax return. What I don't know is what form you use for quarterly federal payment vouchers to accompany your check and what form you use for your state tax return.
    Last edited by Laurisa; 11-11-2009 at 02:02 PM.
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    Featured Member Laurisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    In addition:

    (snip)If you were not paying estimates but a change occurs between September 1 and December 31 that requires you to file estimates, you may file your 2009 MI-1040 return by February 1, 2010, instead of filing an MI-1040ES(snip)

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ta...S_260702_7.pdf (MI-1040ES)

    Since I will be starting to dance literally right at the start of Q4 for 2010 (September 1) will I just file my 2010 return by February 1, 2011 instead of filing an MI-1040ES?
    If you are willing to do for one year what other's won't, you can spend a lifetime doing what other's cant.


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    Featured Member Laurisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    Are form 1040 and form 1040-ES different forms?

    ^^ If so can someone link me to form 1040, I've only seen form 1040-ES which is this: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040.pdf

    Much like form 1040 Schedule C and MI-1040ES are different forms.
    If you are willing to do for one year what other's won't, you can spend a lifetime doing what other's cant.


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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    Looks like we are gonna have a new estimated taxes expert here in a few days!

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    Featured Member Laurisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    Well I've been doing this research for a while but I've made the mistake of not asking direct questions and writing down the answers. I'm sitting here with a notebook and making sure to keep asking until I know I have the right answer.

    I want this stuff for my records.
    If you are willing to do for one year what other's won't, you can spend a lifetime doing what other's cant.


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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    in regard to your question on the 1040-ES estimated tax voucher forms, they are embedded in the last couple of pages of

    In regard to the February 1st deadline option of filing and paying 2009 full year taxes in lieu of making a 4th quarter estimated tax payment by January 15th ( and having until April 15th to file and pay any balance), this applies to both the federal tax return and the Michigan state tax return.

    However, be aware of the possibilities that ...

    A. the US congress could pass last minute laws which affect the 2009 tax return ... which may delay the availability of 'final' 2009 1040 tax forms ( as well as delay the release of a 'final version' federal TurboTax program ). Similar possibility with Michigan state legislature ( and 'final version' Michigan TurboTax program )

    B. the state of Michigan may not actually be ready to accept electronic tax return filings prior to February 1st. Thus you may miss the filing deadline through no fault of your own ( won't help re missing the deadline though)

    C. if there is a possibility that the club(s) where are dancing are going to send out 1099-misc forms ... which typically happens if a portion of your dancing earnings were paid for via customer credit cards etc. ... then you do NOT want to file your federal tax returns without appropriate Schedule C line item entries that correspond dollar for dollar with the 1099-misc amounts. But the deadline for the clubs to send out such 1099's is February 28th, meaning you may not see them until the middle of March. If you had already filed your 1040 plus Schedule C WITHOUT a line entry explaining any 1099-misc forms you may receive, the IRS is going to assume that the 1099-misc amounts of income reported by the club are ADDITIONAL UNREPORTED INCOME on your part ... which will result in an IRS additional info request and amended tax return filing at best, and an IRS audit at worst.

  16. #15
    Featured Member Laurisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    in regard to your question on the 1040-ES estimated tax voucher forms, they are embedded in the last couple of pages of http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040es.pdf

    In regard to the February 1st deadline option of filing and paying 2009 full year taxes in lieu of making a 4th quarter estimated tax payment by January 15th ( and having until April 15th to file and pay any balance), this applies to both the federal tax return and the Michigan state tax return.

    However, be aware of the possibilities that ...

    A. the US congress could pass last minute laws which affect the 2009 tax return ... which may delay the availability of 'final' 2009 1040 tax forms ( as well as delay the release of a 'final version' federal TurboTax program ). Similar possibility with Michigan state legislature ( and 'final version' Michigan TurboTax program )

    B. the state of Michigan may not actually be ready to accept electronic tax return filings prior to February 1st. Thus you may miss the filing deadline through no fault of your own ( won't help re missing the deadline though)

    C. if there is a possibility that the club(s) where are dancing are going to send out 1099-misc forms ... which typically happens if a portion of your dancing earnings were paid for via customer credit cards etc. ... then you do NOT want to file your federal tax returns without appropriate Schedule C line item entries that correspond dollar for dollar with the 1099-misc amounts. But the deadline for the clubs to send out such 1099's is February 28th, meaning you may not see them until the middle of March. If you had already filed your 1040 plus Schedule C WITHOUT a line entry explaining any 1099-misc forms you may receive, the IRS is going to assume that the 1099-misc amounts of income reported by the club are ADDITIONAL UNREPORTED INCOME on your part ... which will result in an IRS additional info request and amended tax return filing at best, and an IRS audit at worst.
    In regard to your 1040-ES response, basically what you're saying is that I use those vouchers found at the bottom of the form 1040-ES to send in my quarterly payments and use the upper portion of the 1040-ES for my actual April 15 return calculations and send that in with Schedule C? I'd use the form 1040-ES for my quarterly estimated payments and tax return, just a different part depending on which it was.

    In regard to my February 1st filing option, if I am only working for Q4 of 2010 will I have a choice? Can I choose to wait until April 15, 2011 to file my return even though I have the option to file an earlier return? Or is it just a tough luck kind of thing? If the club I'm working at sends out the 1099-misc forms I'll definitely wait.
    If you are willing to do for one year what other's won't, you can spend a lifetime doing what other's cant.


  17. #16
    Featured Member Laurisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    What form am I supposed to use for my state tax return? The MI-1040ES only has vouchers listed, no information for returns.

    EDIT:
    Ah, it's called the MI-1040: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ta...0_260741_7.pdf

    So, for future reference for anyone that would like to know (you'll have to adjust the forms if you don't live in Michigan in regard to state and personal income taxes) these are the five .pdf forms you will need to do your federal income taxes, self employment taxes, personal income taxes, and state income taxes:

    Federal Income Tax vouchers/estimated payments: [form 1040-ES]
    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040es.pdf

    Federal Income Tax return: [form 1040 & 1040 Schedule C]
    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040.pdf
    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040sc.pdf

    Michigan State Income Tax vouchers/estimated payments: [form MI1040-ES]
    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ta...S_260702_7.pdf

    Michigan State Income Tax return: [form MI-1040 & 1040 Schedule C (copy)]
    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ta...0_260741_7.pdf
    ttp://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040sc.pdf

    To clarify; you will use the forms 1040-ES and MI-1040ES for your quarterly payments. You will send these out with a check (or alternate form of payment) on April 15, June 15, Sept 15 and Jan 15.

    You will send out the forms 1040 with 1040 Schedule C and MI-1040 by April 15 for the previous calendar year's return. You will only send an accompanying check with these forms if you underpaid in your quarterly estimated tax payments. If you overpaid in your quarterly estimated payments you have the option of waiting for your return check or direct deposit OR writing off your calculated return in your Q1 estimated tax payment for the next calendar year. (Both your Q1 payment and previous calendar year return are due April 15).
    Last edited by Laurisa; 11-11-2009 at 03:29 PM.
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  19. #17
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    ^^^ " by George, I think she's got it " ^^^

    Yes you obviously have the option of waiting until April 15th to file your federal 1040 plus Schedule C tax return and Michigan 1040 tax return ... but ONLY if you have sent out fourth quarter 2009 estimated tax checks and vouchers by January 15th.

    In the final analysis, IMHO the potential two week difference between filing JUST fourth quarter estimated tax payments / vouchers by January 15th, versus attempting to file your annual 1040 plus Schedule C tax returns by the February 1st 'special case' deadline to avoid having to separately file your fourth quarter estimatsed tax payments / vouchers does NOT justify the potential hassles with club 1099's or with last minute tax law / tax form changes I described above. I highly recommend doing the separate fourth quarter estimated tax filing by January 15th, and then waiting at least until the middle of March before filing your annual 1040 plus Schedule C tax returns under the 'normal' April 15th deadline just to be absolutely sure that your club's accountants and attorneys are not going to hit you with a surprise 1099-misc form.

    I don't want to cause unnecessary concern, but I have seen many cases where the surprise arrival of club 1099's in late February or early March have totally ruined a dancer's day. As I said, if the dancer had already filed their tax return WITHOUT a specific Schedule C line item entry to show the IRS where the 1099 income was included, the IRS is going to assume that the 1099 income is IN ADDITION TO the income shown on the previously filed tax return. This can lead to unwanted IRS attention - on several levels.

  20. #18
    Featured Member Laurisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    Are you supposed to send in a 1040 Schedule C with your state income tax return form as well? (i.e. MI-1040)?
    Last edited by Laurisa; 11-11-2009 at 03:23 PM.
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    Featured Member Laurisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    This is a 1099-misc form:

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1099msc.pdf

    (snip)Independent contractor or employee. Generally, you must report payments to independent contractors on Form 1099-MISC in box 7. See the instructions for box 7 on page 6.(snip)

    The purpose of a 1099-misc is so the club can cover their ass and say they paid you. Will this only include the sum of monies that customers charged to their cards for services rendered by you AFTER the club has taken their cut? (i.e. they take 33% of everything so the number they report in box 7 represents what you actually took home). The 1099-misc form does not count as additional taxable income if you report that income on your 1040, correct? It is just rolled into your total gross income, right?
    If you are willing to do for one year what other's won't, you can spend a lifetime doing what other's cant.


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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    ^^^ yes state tax returns usually require you to include a (second) copy of your federal Schedule C.

    The 1099-misc form does not count as additional taxable income if you report that income on your 1040, correct? It is just rolled into your total gross income, right?
    Well, this is where things start to get messy. Basically, clubs can issue 1099's to dancers using whatever criteria the club accountant chooses - but this usually only includes customer charges of a non-cash nature like credit cards. The idea is that the credit card charge will appear as 100% income that is taxable to the club UNLESS the club can show that (all or part) of that credit card charge was in turn paid out again. The club issuing a 1099 form officially transfers ( all or part of ) that customer credit card charge from being the club's taxable income to being the dancer's taxable income.

    As far as reporting, all 1099 income, as well as all additional club income not covered by 1099's, gets listed on Schedule C. Then the 'net' business profit shown at the end of Schedule C ( which includes 1099 income + additional club income minus legitimate business expenses etc.) gets transferred to the personal income line on the 1040 tax return.

  23. #21
    Featured Member Laurisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    Thanks. My tax cheat sheet for my business file folder is almost complete. I just need to know if the number in box 7 of the 1099-misc forms represent what you actually took home after the club took their cut.

    When the club sends you a 1099-misc you fill it out like a W2 and send it to the IRS right? No monies or additional forms attached?
    If you are willing to do for one year what other's won't, you can spend a lifetime doing what other's cant.


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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    ^^^ again it is the club's accountant who decides what types of income are or are not included in their 1099 forms. In general it will ONLY include specific types of income that also have an unavoidable paper trail elsewhere, like customer credit card charges. As such, the amount the club reports on a dancer's 1099 will very probably NOT equal the total amount of dancing income, since it won't include cash tips received from customers, since it won't include cash payments from customers / club to dancer for private dances, for VIP's etc.

    As to dancers needing to do anything with 1099's, when the club sends out a copy to the dancer the club also sends a copy to the IRS and state tax agency. Thus the only thing that the dancer needs to do with the 1099 form she receives is to read it ... enter the listed amount on her Schedule C ... and file it with her tax records in case she is ever audited.


    While it's a bit off topic, the unavoidable paper trail issue with customer credit card charges is also the reason that an increasing number of clubs are promoting the use of in-club ATM's. With an ATM withdrawl versus a customer credit card charge made through the club, the club and the dancer avoid any linkage to a paper trail. Also, the club profits from ATM transaction fees.

  25. #23
    Featured Member Laurisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ yes state tax returns usually require you to include a (second) copy of your federal Schedule C.



    Well, this is where things start to get messy. Basically, clubs can issue 1099's to dancers using whatever criteria the club accountant chooses - but this usually only includes customer charges of a non-cash nature like credit cards. The idea is that the credit card charge will appear as 100% income that is taxable to the club UNLESS the club can show that (all or part) of that credit card charge was in turn paid out again. The club issuing a 1099 form officially transfers ( all or part of ) that customer credit card charge from being the club's taxable income to being the dancer's taxable income.

    As far as reporting, all 1099 income, as well as all additional club income not covered by 1099's, gets listed on Schedule C. Then the 'net' business profit shown at the end of Schedule C ( which includes 1099 income + additional club income minus legitimate business expenses etc.) gets transferred to the personal income line on the 1040 tax return.
    So you're telling me that the club could say they paid me $10,000 on an 1099-misc form when I only took home $7,000 of that? I understand that the amount on the 1099-misc (whether it was adjusted properly or just what was charged to the customer's card) should not be more than what I am actually claiming on my 1040 as my taxable income, but could their calculations affect me negatively? i.e. interfering with deductions or other important calculations, or is that generally not the case?
    If you are willing to do for one year what other's won't, you can spend a lifetime doing what other's cant.


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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms... (estimated taxes and dancer tax returns)

    ^^^ actually the opposite. Using a one night example, the amount reported on the club's 1099 might include two $100 credit card charges made by customers who bought private dances / VIP from you. It would probably NOT include the $100 you earned in stage tips, or the three other $100 customers who paid in cash.

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    Featured Member Laurisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh me oh my so many tax forms... (estimated taxes and dancer tax returns)

    Okay.

    Uh, I was looking at the 1040-ES form and I noticed that that are talking about an Alternative Minimum Tax via Form 6251 on line 7:

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f6251.pdf

    I looked at the form and it looked like a shit load of mumbo jumbo. Part 1/#1 of form 6251 says:

    (snip)If filing Schedule A (Form 1040), enter the amount from Form 1040, line 41 (minus any amount on Form 8914, line 2), and go to line 2. Otherwise, enter the amount from Form 1040, line 38 (minus any amount on Form 8914, line 2), and go to line 7. (If less than zero, enter as a negative amount.)(snip)

    Form 1040 is the form used to file your federal income tax return. If you are just starting out and haven't filed a form 1040 yet because you are sending out your initial 1040-ES vouchers/payments for your state and to the feds then what number would you put?

    Maybe this has something to do with what I read earlier in form 1040-ES.

    (snip)No income subject to estimated tax during first payment period. If, after March 31, 2009, you have a large change in income, taxes, additional deductions, or credits that requires you to start making estimated tax payments, you should figure the amount of your estimated tax payments by using the annualized income installment method, explained in chapter 2 of Pub. 505. If you use the annualized income installment method, file form 2210, Underpayment of Estimated Taxes by Individuals, Estates, and Trusts, with your 2009 tax return, even if no penalty is owed(snip)

    Would that explain why they are asking for information that you couldn't actually have until you received your first tax return? Because they want you to use the form 2210 for the first quarter(s) that you send in quarterly estimated payments until you fill out a 1040 and send in your tax return?
    If you are willing to do for one year what other's won't, you can spend a lifetime doing what other's cant.


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