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Thread: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Regardless of anything anybody posts, here, Twitter is a PRIVATELY OWNED COMPANY. The Government doesn't own one stitch of it. They can ban you from Stripperweb, right? Guess what, so can Twitter. Matter of fact, I'd say they were exceedingly indulgent of Donald Trump! They only banned him at the end of his term. You do NOT have free speech in a private setting.
    Sarchasm (n): The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Honestly I am not familiar with it. I do not and never have read Trump's tweets. Look what I've been missing lol. Afaic either Twitter fairly enforces the same standards on everybody regardless of their nationality ; politics etc. or they should lose their GOVERNMENT provided protection. Either they vet everybody and their tweets and remove any and all incitements to violence or they ought to be subject to suits like everyone else.
    Is that really what you're going with? "I wasn't aware he ever benefited from this unequal treatment, but now that I'm aware he's at a disadvantage, I'm suddenly against the unequal treatment." How convenient.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Btw, the congressional testimony UNDER OATH of both Zuckerberg and Dorsey clearly showed that they were making editorial decisions i.e. they were acting like publishers.
    When do they make these admissions? Here is the primary source video:


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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    I am sorry but it is and always was far beyond the pale. When Carter and Reagan took divisive policy positions those officials promoting some could safely eat out. I could pick a dozen different issues that engendered strong feelings on both sides where basic rules of civility and decency continued to be observed. The Tea Party did NOT publicly confront Congresspeople and Obama officials. Even during Vietnam and wars under Bush basic civility was observed. Yeah Bush had shoes thrown at him - By an Iraqi in IRAQ.

    On the specific issue you mention, WHERE were they when Obama started the policy of family separation ?
    Obama never had a policy of family separation and Obama followed the law.

    I consider forcibly removing children from parents far worse than asking one of the people enabling this to leave a restaurant, or protesting one of those people at a restaurant. People have 1st Amendment rights to protest against individuals. It's also relatively minor compared to what some of the people targeted by Trump have had to go through. As I mentioned before, reporters have had to hire body guards after being targeted by Trump. So did Dr. Fauci's family. People of color are harassed by Trump supporters all the time. The people enabling Trump know this, but they choose to serve under him anyway.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by dpacrkk View Post
    Is that really what you're going with? "I wasn't aware he ever benefited from this unequal treatment, but now that I'm aware he's at a disadvantage, I'm suddenly against the unequal treatment." How convenient.



    When do they make these admissions? Here is the primary source video:

    Are you serious ? I have never followed Trump on Twitter. As far as Trump benefitting from retweeting , so what ?

    Zuckerberg and Dorsey did not acknowledge making editorial decisions or admit to acting like publishers. However , the behavior they were forced to admit to , which is public record, is clearly editorial. They check most, if not all, of the boxes for acting like a publisher and not just a platform provider.
    A
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Obama never had a policy of family separation and Obama followed the law.

    I consider forcibly removing children from parents far worse than asking one of the people enabling this to leave a restaurant, or protesting one of those people at a restaurant. People have 1st Amendment rights to protest against individuals. It's also relatively minor compared to what some of the people targeted by Trump have had to go through. As I mentioned before, reporters have had to hire body guards after being targeted by Trump. So did Dr. Fauci's family. People of color are harassed by Trump supporters all the time. The people enabling Trump know this, but they choose to serve under him anyway.
    There are plenty of examples across the political spectrum of people having to pay a price for supporting Trump ; for just doing their duty; for opposing Trump ; for praising him ; for criticizing him. None of it is right.

    As far as the illegal entry children, I have asked you before ( without any response ) what should have been done with them ? Whose fault is it that they came or were brought to the U.S. illegally ? It wasn't Trump's idea.

    I'm sorry but you are NOT entitled to your own facts. It is historically true that Obama started detaining illegal entry children. At first , under Trump, the Border Patrol was stuck with the same inadequate detention facilities they had to work with when Obama was in charge. The problem was more acute under Trump because A. he established a Zero Tolerance policy and B. there was a greater influx of minors on his watch.

    I know I am going to take hits for this but I really don't care all that much. Not beyond a basic human empathy. Not compared to my concern for native born Americans and those who came here legally. My focus is on WHO took them across the border ? It wasn't Trump.
    A
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Are you serious ? I have never followed Trump on Twitter.
    Are you serious? I have never followed Trump on Twitter either. Yet I still know of the social experiment performed. And I explained it to you three (?) times. Ignorantia non excusat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    As far as Trump benefitting from retweeting , so what ?
    Good job reading. Let's try again in simpler prose:

    1. Trump tweets something.
    2. SuspendThePres tweets the same thing verbatim.
    3. SuspendThePres gets suspended.
    4. Nothing happens to Trump despite the @SuspendThePres account having been suspended for tweeting the exact same content verbatim. <----- THIS IS WHERE HE'S BENEFITTING!!!
    5. Repeat steps 1-4.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Zuckerberg and Dorsey did not acknowledge making editorial decisions or admit to acting like publishers. However , the behavior they were forced to admit to , which is public record, is clearly editorial. They check most, if not all, of the boxes for acting like a publisher and not just a platform provider.
    Similar question then: When do they make statements indicating behavior that is clearly editorial and/or acting like a publisher?

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by dpacrkk View Post
    Are you serious? I have never followed Trump on Twitter either. Yet I still know of the social experiment performed. And I explained it to you three (?) times. Ignorantia non excusat.



    Good job reading. Let's try again:

    1. Trump tweets something.
    2. SuspendThePres tweets the same thing verbatim.
    3. SuspendThePres gets suspended.
    4. Nothing happens to Trump despite the @SuspendThePres account having been suspended for tweeting the exact same content verbatim. <----- THIS IS WHERE HE'S BENEFITTING!!!
    5. Repeat steps 1-4.



    Similar question then: When do they make statements indicating behavior that is clearly editorial and/or acting like a publisher?
    It was contained in their ADMISSIONS concerning certain decisions they made mostly involving conservative posters like the N.Y. Post among other egregious examples.

    It seems to me that your criticism ought to be directed at Twitter. Are you claiming that Trump somehow bamboozled them ?
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    It was contained in their ADMISSIONS concerning certain decisions they made mostly involving conservative posters like the N.Y. Post among other egregious examples.
    Sure, where? Any quote or timestamp? Or just take your word that it happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    It seems to me that your criticism ought to be directed at Twitter. Are you claiming that Trump somehow bamboozled them ?
    Sure, they're on the list too for acting too late: they could have shut down the outright lies during the 2016 primary run, the birther stuff prior to that, and so on.

    But this does not exempt you from the hypocrisy of "How dare they treat Trump adversely, they should ban others too! But I'm going to sweep the instances of the reverse under the rug because...reasons."

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    The Congressional testimony of both is Public Record. They were both cornered and treed by Senator Cruz , among others. Should be easy to find if you are seriously interested. I think they were also undressed by Graham and Hawley.
    A
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by dpacrkk View Post
    Sure, where? Any quote or timestamp? Or just take your word that it happened?



    Sure, they're on the list too for acting too late: they could have shut down the outright lies during the 2016 primary run, the birther stuff prior to that, and so on.

    But this does not exempt you from the hypocrisy of "How dare they treat Trump adversely, they should ban others too! But I'm going to sweep the instances of the reverse under the rug because...reasons."
    There are a LOT of people worldwide who agree with me and are highly critical of what Twitter and Facebook did. Including many national leaders of other countries. The proper cure for Trump's lies and misstatements is more speech. Nothing wrong with showing he is lying or factually delinquent.

    You are deliberately misreading my posts. I DO NOT WANT TWITTER TO BAN ANYBODY except for groups or tweeters that almost everyone can agree are beyond the bounds of anything resembling civil discourse or basic decency e.g. Nazis ; Islamic terrorists - any terrorist for that matter ; Anti-Semites ; The KKK and other avowed racists; Holocaust deniers ; NAMBLA and other child molesters etc. An argument can be made for banning QAnon and the Proud Boys. They are Trump supporters. They are not Trump.
    A
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    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    The Congressional testimony of both is Public Record. They were both cornered and treed by Senator Cruz , among others. Should be easy to find if you are seriously interested. I think they were also undressed by Graham and Hawley.
    If you make a claim, it is your responsibility to back it up.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    There are a LOT of people worldwide who agree with me and are highly critical of what Twitter and Facebook did.
    Cool. And there are a lot of people worldwide that agree the world is flat, the moon landing didn't happen, COVID-19 is a hoax, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Including many national leaders of other countries.
    I can't be alone in thinking this is hilarious: we had four years of one of the major parties not caring about what the international community thinks and slogans like "America First." But as soon as it suits them, suddenly part of the argument is "some of the international community agrees too!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    The proper cure for Trump's lies and misstatements is more speech. Nothing wrong with showing he is lying or factually delinquent.
    Amend it to more factual speech/content and I could probably agree. Having more outright lies to incense people doesn't seem all that valuable to me.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    As long as Twitter limits their censorship to speakers and ideas that you do not like or agree with then what they do is acceptable ?
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by kamiliam View Post
    If you make a claim, it is your responsibility to back it up.
    I did. The transcripts and video of their testimony under questioning by Ted Cruz ( among others ) is public record and easily available. Their actions clearly constituted content based editing making them publishers. Please see The New York Post 11/17/20 ; Foxnews.com and pjmedia.com. The actual video is all over the net.

    Zuckerberg was more clever and coy and tried not to commit himself.
    A
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by dpacrkk View Post
    Cool. And there are a lot of people worldwide that agree the world is flat, the moon landing didn't happen, COVID-19 is a hoax, etc.



    I can't be alone in thinking this is hilarious: we had four years of one of the major parties not caring about what the international community thinks and slogans like "America First." But as soon as it suits them, suddenly part of the argument is "some of the international community agrees too!"



    Amend it to more factual speech/content and I could probably agree. Having more outright lies to incense people doesn't seem all that valuable to me.
    I was referring tp prominent public figures who believe in free speech . I leave the tin hat crowd to others.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    As long as Twitter limits their censorship to speakers and ideas that you do not like or agree with then what they do is acceptable ?
    No. I have never stated this. Give people some limited number of opportunities to retract their claims when it's been proven to be factually incorrect, but if they don't comply get rid of any and all habitual liars. We had nearly five years of repeated lying since the 2016 primary; maybe the division wouldn't be as bad if people didn't fall for obvious garbage or Googled for 10 seconds instead of being happy to confirm their biases and get outraged (this applies to both major parties).

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    I was referring tp prominent public figures who believe in free speech . I leave the tin hat crowd to others.
    You are ignoring the fact that free speech is only guaranteed by Congress. Nonetheless, the principle is the same: we had four years of one of the major parties not caring about what the international community thinks and slogans like "America First." But as soon as it suits them, suddenly part of the argument is "some of the international community agrees too!"

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    You are deliberately misreading my posts. I DO NOT WANT TWITTER TO BAN ANYBODY except for groups or tweeters that almost everyone can agree are beyond the bounds of anything resembling civil discourse or basic decency e.g. Nazis ; Islamic terrorists - any terrorist for that matter ; Anti-Semites ; The KKK and other avowed racists; Holocaust deniers ; NAMBLA and other child molesters etc. An argument can be made for banning QAnon and the Proud Boys. They are Trump supporters. They are not Trump.
    Fine then change instances of "ban" to "punish," "penalize," "discipline," or whatever you want.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    As long as Twitter limits their censorship to speakers and ideas that you do not like or agree with then what they do is acceptable ?
    Alt-right nutjobs have their own social platforms, e.g., Parlor. Parlor will censor liberal views, because, it is a alt right wing platform. Does that upset you at all? It doesn't bother me at all. They can have their own little social platform to gripe and whine about the loss of their white privilege.

    Fox news will censor liberal views, because, it is a right-wing news channel. Does that upset you at all? It doesn't bother me at all. They can further brainwash people that are already brainwashed.

    You can start your own platform and censor anyone you like. Its YOUR platform.

    Anyone who complains about the decisions of the PRIVATE social platforms to censor extremism is an enemy of the capitalism. Twitter, Facebook, etc., have made a business decision to be mainstream and politically neutral in order to appeal to the most people and maximize their profit potential. There is no law that commands that all private social platforms must be politically neutral. Twitter, Facebook, etc., have made a choice to be political neutral. However, neutrality becomes impossible when people start using their platforms to spread hate, violence and lies, because, the platform becomes a tool for hate groups. Never mind the ethical issues with this. The real problem from a business standpoint is - would you risk alienating and losing 50% of your customers, because of stupid shit that your 5% nutjob customers say or do? Of course not, you would rather lose the 5% nutjob customers. Let them leave and go to Parlor. This is simple business math. This is simple capitalism logic. If you do not like it, you do not like capitalism. But, communism and dictatorships are heavy into censorship, so, I do not know where you go from here.
    Last edited by jack0177057; 01-13-2021 at 02:28 PM.
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    There are plenty of examples across the political spectrum of people having to pay a price for supporting Trump ; for just doing their duty; for opposing Trump ; for praising him ; for criticizing him. None of it is right.

    As far as the illegal entry children, I have asked you before ( without any response ) what should have been done with them ? Whose fault is it that they came or were brought to the U.S. illegally ? It wasn't Trump's idea.
    Children who enter with their parents should stay with their parents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    I'm sorry but you are NOT entitled to your own facts. It is historically true that Obama started detaining illegal entry children. At first , under Trump, the Border Patrol was stuck with the same inadequate detention facilities they had to work with when Obama was in charge. The problem was more acute under Trump because A. he established a Zero Tolerance policy and B. there was a greater influx of minors on his watch.
    Under Obama, only children who entered the country without their parents were temporarily placed in detention detention centers, and released to HHS within 72 hours, as the law requires. Obama's policy was to make every effort to keep families together, and only separate families as a last resort. Trump started a new policy of forcibly removing children from parents for all families attempting to enter the US, including families who were legally seeking asylum. Some of these children were placed in detention for weeks or months at a time, which is against the law. The conditions in these detention centers were so horrific, that some of these children died. There's one case of a teenage boy dying on the bathroom floor, because the staff refused to send him to the hospital. Children were not provided with basic necessities, including soap, toothbrushes, and blankets. In some cases, parents were deported while the children remained here. There is no limit to Trump's cruelty. He's a very sick sociopath.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    I know I am going to take hits for this but I really don't care all that much. Not beyond a basic human empathy. Not compared to my concern for native born Americans and those who came here legally. My focus is on WHO took them across the border ? It wasn't Trump.
    The small children who were brought here with their parents were not responsible, and should not be the ones punished. You don't know what the family's situation was to cause them to come here. I'm sorry, but there is something wrong with you if you don't see anything wrong with two and three year old children being forcibly removed from the parents and thrown in detention centers, where they're kept in horrible conditions, with no formal supervision. I understand that in a democracy, I'm not always going to get my way in elections, and it's very possible that the elected president's views may be very different than mine, but I expect at least some sense of decency from the POTUS. I've come to detest Trump for his cruelty and complete indifference to the suffering of others. He belongs in prison, not the White House.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    You are deliberately misreading my posts. I DO NOT WANT TWITTER TO BAN ANYBODY except for groups or tweeters that almost everyone can agree are beyond the bounds of anything resembling civil discourse or basic decency e.g. Nazis ; Islamic terrorists - any terrorist for that matter ; Anti-Semites ; The KKK and other avowed racists; Holocaust deniers ; NAMBLA and other child molesters etc. An argument can be made for banning QAnon and the Proud Boys. They are Trump supporters. They are not Trump.
    Trump is a terrorist. I'm glad you agree he should be banned.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    There are a LOT of people worldwide who agree with me and are highly critical of what Twitter and Facebook did. Including many national leaders of other countries. The proper cure for Trump's lies and misstatements is more speech. Nothing wrong with showing he is lying or factually delinquent.
    Not when Trump's statements lead to people being killed and murdered.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Eric,

    A DOJ lawyer even wrote an apology for helping to enable Trump's policies, and said she was wrong not to quit from the start.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/20/o...nt-lawyer.html

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Children who enter with their parents should stay with their parents.



    Under Obama, only children who entered the country without their parents were temporarily placed in detention detention centers, and released to HHS within 72 hours, as the law requires. Obama's policy was to make every effort to keep families together, and only separate families as a last resort. Trump started a new policy of forcibly removing children from parents for all families attempting to enter the US, including families who were legally seeking asylum. Some of these children were placed in detention for weeks or months at a time, which is against the law. The conditions in these detention centers were so horrific, that some of these children died. There's one case of a teenage boy dying on the bathroom floor, because the staff refused to send him to the hospital. Children were not provided with basic necessities, including soap, toothbrushes, and blankets. In some cases, parents were deported while the children remained here. There is no limit to Trump's cruelty. He's a very sick sociopath.



    The small children who were brought here with their parents were not responsible, and should not be the ones punished. You don't know what the family's situation was to cause them to come here. I'm sorry, but there is something wrong with you if you don't see anything wrong with two and three year old children being forcibly removed from the parents and thrown in detention centers, where they're kept in horrible conditions, with no formal supervision. I understand that in a democracy, I'm not always going to get my way in elections, and it's very possible that the elected president's views may be very different than mine, but I expect at least some sense of decency from the POTUS. I've come to detest Trump for his cruelty and complete indifference to the suffering of others. He belongs in prison, not the White House.
    He belongs to the streets!

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Trump is a terrorist. I'm glad you agree he should be banned.
    and a sexual predator, a 4 time baby daddy, a philanderer, a clout chaser, a thirsty attention seeker, a liar, manipulator, n more

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