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Thread: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

  1. #251
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by miss.a.p1600 View Post
    Maxine waters?!?

    what she be saying though?
    Just to keep it simple and recent, she encouraged confrontations with Government officials she does not like or disagree with in PRIVATE settings. She has done as much as Trump to lower the tone of political discourse and encourage lack of civility.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 01-12-2021 at 01:00 PM.

  2. #252
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by dpacrkk View Post
    OK, then terminate those accounts as well. "But they're doing it too" is not a good defense whatsoever.



    Yeah, the median MAGA crowd is watching 60 Minutes and making the sudden realization "Oh man, I've been wrong all along!" Hell no, they aren't! Or they would have after four years of fact checking and debunking claims and conspiracy theories. Instead, they ate it all up.



    Laughing to keep from facepalming. Parler can and absolutely did create its own platform; it just can't distribute itself on Google and Apple, nor use Amazon's infrastructure to facilitate violence. Well now, Parler can build its own service fabric, infrastructure, and digital distribution service too! And I mentioned this about two months ago:





    The _government_ won't abridge your freedom of speech (with some restrictions) on Parler, and the _government_ didn't do that. So what's the problem?



    This is the actual statement from their senior legislative counsel. It doesn't read like support for Trump:

    "For months, President Trump has been using social media platforms to seed doubt about the results of the election and to undermine the will of voters. We understand the desire to permanently suspend him now, but it should concern everyone when companies like Facebook and Twitter wield the unchecked power to remove people from platforms that have become indispensable for the speech of billions – especially when political realities make those decisions easier. President Trump can turn his press team or Fox News to communicate with the public, but others – like many Black, Brown, and LGTBQ activists who have been censored by social media companies – will not have that luxury. It is our hope that these companies will apply their rules transparently to everyone."
    WHO are Facebook and Twitter helping by suppressing Trump and others whose ideas they do not like or agree with ? Technically you are correct as Congress is not doing the suppression directly via legislation but these are publicly traded companies who GET GOVERNMENT BENEFITS ( inter alia, every Senator and Congressperson has a Facebook and Twitter account ) doing the bidding of ONE party ; of one pov. And often on some very specious grounds NOT applied to Dems and other Libs.
    The "60 Minutes " report CONFIRMED what was already out there concerning the Georgia results. It only took a few hundred QAnon and Proud Boy loons to violently trespass on the Capitol. Trump encouraged them to go to the Capitol. He didn't tell them to break in or attack the Police. But, BUT I agree that he ought not have said ANYTHING except to say : "The election was over two months ago. Joe won. I lost. Maybe there were some dirty tricks and fast dealing but I can't prove enough to change a single state's result. Go home and gear up for 2022. " Yeah , you're right. He'd never say that. More's the pity.

    It's obvious they hate doing it but the ACLU recognizes the danger of content based discrimination and suppression of speech.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 01-13-2021 at 09:47 AM.

  3. #253
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Just to keep it simple and recent, she encouraged confrontations with Government officials she does not like or disagree with in PRIVATE settings. She has done as much as Trump to lower the tone of political discourse and encourage lack if civility.
    No, she encouraged confrontations with Government officials who were enabling Trump's policy of forcibly removing thousands of children from their parents, and throwing them in cold, overcrowded detention centers, where children were kept in horrific conditions for months at a time. What Trump was doing to these children is far worse than confronting govt officials who helped carry out this cruel policy.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    WHO are Facebook and Twitter helping by suppressing Trump and others whose ideas they do not like or agree with ? Technically you are correct as Congress is not doing the suppression directly via legislation but these are publicly traded companies who GET GOVERNMENT BENEFITS ( inter alia, every Senator and Congressperson has a Facebook and Twitter account ) doing the bidding of ONE party ; of one pov. And often on some very specious grounds NOT
    applied to Dems and other Libs.
    They're not suppressing Trump because they don't like or disagree with their ideas. They're suppressing Trump because he incites violence.

    FB and Twitter are helping all of the people being harassed and assaulted by Trump's fanatical supporters. I see videos all the time of people of color being harassed and/or assaulted by Trump supporters, or people wearing masks or store employees enforcing mask rules being harassed and assaulted. Any time Trump targets a member of Congress in his tweets, they're inundated with death threats. Any reporter who writes anything negative about Trump, can expect to be targeted by Trump on Twitter, and get inundated with death threats. Reporters have had to hire body guards because of Trump. Dr. Fauci had to hire body guards for his family after being targeted by Trump. Election workers have also been targeted by Trump. One was sent a noose by one of Trump's MAGAts. What about these people's right to free speech? Why shouldn't reporters be allowed to criticize Trump or disagree with him, without being inundated with death threats?

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  6. #255
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    WHO are Facebook and Twitter helping by suppressing Trump and others whose ideas they do not like or agree with ? Technically you are correct as Congress is not doing the suppression directly via legislation but these are publicly traded companies who GET GOVERNMENT BENEFITS ( inter alia, every Senator and Congressperson has a Facebook and Twitter account ) doing the bidding of ONE party ; of one pov. And often on some very specious grounds NOT
    applied to Dems and other Libs.
    The "60 Minutes " report CONFIRMED what was already out there concerning the Georgia results. It only took a few hundred QAnon and Proud Boy loons to violently trespass on the Capitol. Trump encouraged them to go to the Capitol. He didn't tell them to break in or attack the Police. But, BUT I agree that he ought not have said ANYTHING except to say : "The election was over two months ago. Joe won. I lost. Maybe there were some dirty tricks and fast dealing but I can't prove enough to change a single state's result. Go home and gear up for 2022. " Yeah , you're right. He'd never say that. More's the pity.

    It's obvious they hate doing it but the ACLU recognizes the danger of content based discrimination and suppression of speech.
    Wasn’t he quoted (I think eagle found the exact phrasing) saying something to the effect of “fight like hell” etc.

    Some other politician was quoted saying “lightly threaten” the congressmen

    This is why leaders who aren’t mentally stable n aren’t well versed in public speaking should not hold the position. Trump is real slick. He knows what to say to rile people up but he stops short of doing anything to be blamed or held accountable.

    He can easily say he never told those people outright to go kill but what he did do was for months he riled up his cult followers, peddle baseless claims, got them to pay their hard earned money to his fraudulent campaign, and manipulated them to take action he wanted but when it got out of hand he was in the cut somewhere orgasming from the chaos he had a part in creating all while continuing to deny any responsibility for his actions n pointing the finger at everyone else except himself for being a piss poor leader.

    All this shit happening to the country on his watch

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Oh and I can guarantee Trump will lead his cult followers for more destruction if their cult leader is impeached.

    He posted a thinly veiled threat on that creepy ass video he just released.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by miss.a.p1600 View Post
    Wasn’t he quoted (I think eagle found the exact phrasing) saying something to the effect of “fight like hell” etc.
    Yes. I think it was "fight like hell or lose your country". He also made other incendiary statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by miss.a.p1600 View Post
    Some other politician was quoted saying “lightly threaten” the congressmen
    Yes, and another one said "take names and kick ass" at the rally. Giuliani said we'll have "trial by combat".

    Quote Originally Posted by miss.a.p1600 View Post
    This is why leaders who aren’t mentally stable n aren’t well versed in public speaking should not hold the position. Trump is real slick. He knows what to say to rile people up but he stops short of doing anything to be blamed or held accountable.
    Not really. Most people were able to figure out Trump's intent, which is why he's been banned from social media.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    WHO are Facebook and Twitter helping by suppressing Trump and others whose ideas they do not like or agree with ?
    They're helping people that don't spread disinformation and encourage insurrections. Do you think these are not the right thing to do? But that's irrelevant and incidental.

    And they aren't suppressing Trump, they're suppressing a habitual rule-breaker that happens to be named "Donald Trump." As miss.a.p1600 mentioned, during summer 2020 on Twitter there was an account (@SuspendThePres) that tweeted content originally from @realDonaldTrump verbatim. @SuspendThePres was suspended repeatedly while nothing happened to the originating tweets from the @realDonaldTrump account. The point is judgments should be about the content and not the person and the @realDonaldTrump account has gotten away with far more than you seem to be willing to acknowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Technically you are correct as Congress is not doing the suppression directly via legislation but these are publicly traded companies who GET GOVERNMENT BENEFITS ( inter alia, every Senator and Congressperson has a Facebook and Twitter account ) doing the bidding of ONE party ; of one pov. And often on some very specious grounds NOT applied to Dems and other Libs.
    And that doesn't make it part of the government. So what's the problem? And drop the parties; do you really think the other parties do anything to the same frequency or magnitude as what's being done now? Be honest with yourself, if the parties were switched, would you post your opposition as much as you are now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    The "60 Minutes " report CONFIRMED what was already out there concerning the Georgia results. It only took a few hundred QAnon and Proud Boy loons to violently trespass on the Capitol. Trump encouraged them to go to the Capitol.
    OK...but I never claimed otherwise. But anyway, two people in the party did the right thing. Again, did that message reach the MAGA crowd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    It's obvious they hate doing it but the ACLU recognizes the danger of content based discrimination and suppression of speech.
    They recognize the danger of not applying decisions consistently.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Look at what people have to put up with, from Trump supporters:

    https://twitter.com/BillyBaldwin/sta...37256841216001

    This is why Trump needs to be suppressed from social media.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    The doj has now charged over 70 people with sedition and conspiracy. Some come with a mandatory sentence of 20 years! I bet if some of these people had spent more time reading up on felonies plus sentencing, they would have stayed at home. Now their freedom really is in jeopardy. The video starts around 7:20


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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by PhatGirlDynomite!!! View Post
    The doj has now charged over 70 people with sedition and conspiracy. Some come with a mandatory sentence of 20 years! I bet if some of these people had spent more time reading up on felonies plus sentencing, they would have stayed at home. Now their freedom really is in jeopardy. The video starts around 7:20

    If these people are the leaders of the Trump world (bloggers, alt-right radio, etc.), then, this is indeed a good thing. Will locking up these morons lead to the end of the Trump cult? One can hope and pray, but, I don't know.

    Wacko white supremacists have always existed in our nation, but, they used to lay low (for the most part) before Trump. Some right-wing politicians flirted with them a little, but, none went 'all the way' with them, until Trump. Trump indeed went 'all the way' with them and even bought the engagement ring. He gave them political clout, encouraged and emboldened them. Now they are flagrant, unabashed, and more dangerous than ever.

    They are like White Walkers in our midst. There's a war coming. (Quote from Game of Thrones referring to the White Walkers.)
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  19. #262
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Look at what people have to put up with, from Trump supporters:

    https://twitter.com/BillyBaldwin/sta...37256841216001

    This is why Trump needs to be suppressed from social media.
    Gross! They’re breathing all hard n shouting with no mask or social distancing

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by PhatGirlDynomite!!! View Post
    The doj has now charged over 70 people with sedition and conspiracy. Some come with a mandatory sentence of 20 years! I bet if some of these people had spent more time reading up on felonies plus sentencing, they would have stayed at home. Now their freedom really is in jeopardy. The video starts around 7:20

    the craziest thing with some of those people their relatives n exes were identifying them to law enforcement

    And if they were dumb enough to have no masks on thus spread disease n show entire face/film themselves/take pics of themselves/livestream from their public accounts while committing crimes then they deserve it

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Lawmakers are testing positive for Covid-19 after the Capitol lockdown
    At least five lawmakers have tested positive since the Capitol insurrection.

    https://www.vox.com/2021/1/12/222270...eman-schneider

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by miss.a.p1600 View Post
    the craziest thing with some of those people their relatives n exes were identifying them to law enforcement

    And if they were dumb enough to have no masks on thus spread disease n show entire face/film themselves/take pics of themselves/livestream from their public accounts while committing crimes then they deserve it
    Its stated in this video that they were able to collect over 150,000 pieces of digital data. They did it to themselves. The fbi has a webpage dedicated to finding them. I bet people on social media are turning them in too.

    Violent Activity at the U.S Capitol Building
    The FBI is seeking information that will assist in identifying individuals who are actively instigating violence in Washington, DC. The FBI is accepting tips and digital media depicting rioting and violence in the U.S. Capitol Building and surrounding area in Washington, DC, on January 6, 2021.

    If you have witnessed unlawful violent actions, we urge you to submit any information, photos, or videos that could be relevant at fbi.gov/USCapitol.

    Please use this form to submit any images, videos, or other multimedia files you have related to possible violations of federal law committed. Our goal is to preserve the public’s constitutional right to protest by protecting everyone from violence and other criminal activity.

    You may also call ‪1-800-CALL-FBI (1-‪800-225-5324) to verbally report tips and/or information related to this investigation.

    If you do not have an attachment but have information to provide, please submit it at tips.fbi.gov

    https://tips.fbi.gov/digitalmedia/aad18481a3e8f02

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Yeah, well one Moron put shit he stole from there on EBAY (Nancy Pelosi's Lectern). Does this guy not know that if you take shit that doesn't belong to you that's a CRIME? And of course, he was caught. GOD, what an idiot! Ebay?
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Not to mention that anyone who bought it would also face charges. It's called ""Receiving stolen property." So they're dumb, too. I think it was up to like 14,000$, you're gonna pay that much just to go to jail? God, who ARE these people?
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Rep. Mikie Sherill, Navy veteran and Annapolis grad who sits on the House Armed Services Committee says she saw Congress members "who had groups coming through the Capitol that I saw on January 5th, a reconnaissance for the next day."

    https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/st...26164649279490

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  32. #269
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    No, she encouraged confrontations with Government officials who were enabling Trump's policy of forcibly removing thousands of children from their parents, and throwing them in cold, overcrowded detention centers, where children were kept in horrific conditions for months at a time. What Trump was doing to these children is far worse than confronting govt officials who helped carry out this cruel policy.
    I am sorry but it is and always was far beyond the pale. When Carter and Reagan took divisive policy positions those officials promoting some could safely eat out. I could pick a dozen different issues that engendered strong feelings on both sides where basic rules of civility and decency continued to be observed. The Tea Party did NOT publicly confront Congresspeople and Obama officials. Even during Vietnam and wars under Bush basic civility was observed. Yeah Bush had shoes thrown at him - By an Iraqi in IRAQ.

    On the specific issue you mention, WHERE were they when Obama started the policy of family separation ?

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    They're not suppressing Trump because they don't like or disagree with their ideas. They're suppressing Trump because he incites violence.

    FB and Twitter are helping all of the people being harassed and assaulted by Trump's fanatical supporters. I see videos all the time of people of color being harassed and/or assaulted by Trump supporters, or people wearing masks or store employees enforcing mask rules being harassed and assaulted. Any time Trump targets a member of Congress in his tweets, they're inundated with death threats. Any reporter who writes anything negative about Trump, can expect to be targeted by Trump on Twitter, and get inundated with death threats. Reporters have had to hire body guards because of Trump. Dr. Fauci had to hire body guards for his family after being targeted by Trump. Election workers have also been targeted by Trump. One was sent a noose by one of Trump's MAGAts. What about these people's right to free speech? Why shouldn't reporters be allowed to criticize Trump or disagree with him, without being inundated with death threats?
    Twer it only true. IF that is the standard then Twitter has a LOT of work to do. What about all the "Kill Trump" hashtags hosted by Twitter ? The Iranians who call for Israel's destruction ? ; the "Pigs In a Blanket, Fry Em Like Bacon " found in a myriad of tweets ; all the Anti-Fa accounts including the left wing Portland journalist telling AntiFa that : " Andy Ngo is here ". That was after Ngo had been physically assaulted several times before including one where he had a very serious concussion. Twitter has the right to police its site so long as those rules are applied equally and fairly.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    What about all the "Kill Trump" hashtags hosted by Twitter ?
    Read this. Remember this from yesterday?

    Quote Originally Posted by dpacrkk View Post
    OK, then terminate those accounts as well. "But they're doing it too" is not a good defense whatsoever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Twitter has the right to police its site so long as those rules are applied equally and fairly.
    Morally, sure, in reality, no. They can do what they want on their private platform. While on the subject: why is it usually one major party is held to moral and ethical standards, while the other rationalizes and employs double standards? Also, do you remember this from yesterday?

    Quote Originally Posted by dpacrkk View Post
    As miss.a.p1600 mentioned, during summer 2020 on Twitter there was an account (@SuspendThePres) that tweeted content originally from @realDonaldTrump verbatim. @SuspendThePres was suspended repeatedly while nothing happened to the originating tweets from the @realDonaldTrump account. The point is judgments should be about the content and not the person and the @realDonaldTrump account has gotten away with far more than you seem to be willing to acknowledge.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Unlike some of you I do not have to pick and choose which violence and incendiary rhetoric I am willing to tolerate. I am against all of it. By whomever.
    As far as Trump is concerned I have no sympathy for him. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. He did this to himself and to the country . For NOTHING ! As I've posted, it was quickly apparent that his objections to the election had no merit; his investigations led nowhere ; his evidence of wrongdoing was virtually non-existent and could not even survive motions to dismiss or procedural judicial gatekeeping i.e. they lacked any serious merit. I posted a day or two after the election that he ought to have conceded and moved on. Instead he channeled his inner Roy Cohn ( never apologize , never retreat , never surrender , never concede , attack repeat attack etc. ) There have been some Republican adults who said what I have said early on -Rich Lowery , Mitch McConnel and others. The mischief makers and criminals from a week ago were almost all from QAnon and The Proud Boys. They were NOT from Anti-Fa and I hate it when Giuliani and other Trump sycophants , toadies and lackeys try to blame the Capitol riot on them. Not true. Won't wash. I think Trump should resign or at least hand the reins over to Pence until Biden is Inaugurated. He won't and impeaching him won't result in anything useful. What can be done is to start promoting more civility and crack down on ALL political violence. From MAGA ; AntiFa ; BLM ; whoever !

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    If Twitter wants to be a "private " platform where Dorsey et.al. get to decide who gets to speak then they are not entitled to Government provided immunity.

    I have a proposed solution. Twitter is entitled to set rules and guidelines for posting. Inciting violence or posting clear libel with no redeeming value would be great for starters SO LONG AS those rules apply To EVERYBODY who posts on Twitter. Same for Facebook. At present Twitter feels entitled to pick and choose.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    If Twitter wants to be a "private " platform where Dorsey et.al. get to decide who gets to speak then they are not entitled to Government provided immunity.
    No need for the quotes; it's private. Unless you think it's owned by any level of government. Repeatedly posting otherwise does not make it true. Similar to repeatedly posting that the election was stolen; it's not true regardless of how many times it's repeated. Do you see what I did there?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    At present Twitter feels entitled to pick and choose.
    Please, just a yes/no answer: Did you ever post any opposition to the fact that the @SuspendThePres Twitter account was suspended repeatedly for tweeting verbatim content from @realDonaldTrump while nothing happened to the source account?

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by dpacrkk View Post
    No need for the quotes; it's private. Unless you think it's owned by any level of government. Repeatedly posting otherwise does not make it true. Similar to repeatedly posting that the election was stolen; it's not true regardless of how many times it's repeated. Do you see what I did there?



    Please, just a yes/no answer: Did you ever post any opposition to the fact that the @SuspendThePres Twitter account was suspended repeatedly for tweeting verbatim content from @realDonaldTrump while nothing happened to the source account?
    Honestly I am not familiar with it. I do not and never have read Trump's tweets. Look what I've been missing lol. Afaic either Twitter fairly enforces the same standards on everybody regardless of their nationality ; politics etc. or they should lose their GOVERNMENT provided protection. Either they vet everybody and their tweets and remove any and all incitements to violence or they ought to be subject to suits like everyone else.

    Btw, the congressional testimony UNDER OATH of both Zuckerberg and Dorsey clearly showed that they were making editorial decisions i.e. they were acting like publishers. They provide a platform and that platform gets used for political speech. It is not just a way to reach people ; it has become THE way to do it in some contexts. Except for judicious trimming at the edges how can there be content based editorial decisions without having a serious impact on POLITICAL speech. The highest and most valued of ALL speech.

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