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Thread: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Nobody intended those children to die. A few died who were very sick to begin with ALTHOUGH the medical care was not optimal. They could have been released at the border and died anyway. Afaik they were detained because they were trying to pursue claims of asylum and refused to go back to their native countries. Rather than release them, they were held until their claims could be vetted and adjudicated.

    Also afaik the children fell into two groups - unaccompanied minors and those who came with their parents. We did not have the facilities to keep the families together. Maybe we should have.
    Even ONE is not cool. Send the families to Mexico if you like, but don't just let them DIE. That entire policy was fucked up from the beginning. They were just trying to find work!
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    We could go on and on arguing cause and effect. I actually agree with you , in part, that Trump bears some responsibility for SOME of the violence.
    However the storming of the Capitol was NOT Trump's idea and appears to have been planned for weeks without any impetus or input from Trump. The violence was actually occurring while Trump was speaking over a mile away. The fruits and nuts who attacked The Capitol did not need Trump's rhetoric to incite them. They were already excited and incited.
    What Trump IS responsible for and which btw would have made a solid ground for a genuine good faith impeachment, were his ham fisted attempts to interfere with the Congressional tally of Electoral Votes. And arguably his attempts to pressure Georgia public officials to "find" him votes. Both clear violations of his oath to "preserve ,protect and defend the Constitution... " I also think his holding the rally in the first place had no legitimate purpose , was potentially inflammatory and ran counter to his Presidential Oath.
    lol @ hamfisted

    I know it’s a fig of speech but - i can totally see his ass with some extra large crusty n fleshy hands stuffed like a can of biscuits about to explode out of those creepy OJ Simpson isotoner gloves

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    However the storming of the Capitol was NOT Trump's idea and appears to have been planned for weeks without any impetus or input from Trump.
    Look, no offense, man, but HE TOLD THEM TO GO THERE. And they did. It sure looks to me like that was his intent. Sure some Militant groups might have had plans, but how many do you think there were? That genius that stole Pelosi's Lecturn and was dumb enough to put it up on ebay, do you really think he was smart enough to come up with this shit? He sure looks like an Idiot to me. Some were, and had plans, but others were just led by the nose by Trump.

    Plus, Trump's not that smart either.
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Come on!

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    ^i think the problem is that rational people take that for what it is. Some random speech by some random dude.

    Unstable people read between the lines AND take those words literally.

    This is how Trump saves his own ass every time despite being the ultimate leader who is supposed to have more responsibility with what he says. He will say “oh I meant that figuratively speaking” so it’s not my responsibility that you tore up the capitol after listening to my speech.

    The events of the past year or so especially so just how unstable a lot of American people really are. They don’t hide their true colors like they used to during PC times. The deviant behavior is on full display.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Their fucking nuts! Run in there and tear up the Capitol Building! All because their new Messiah told them to do it. What worries me is the real Militant Groups. Those guys are smarter. Notice how none of them got caught. Just a bunch of trailer park people.
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    BTW, just one last thing about that dipshit with the Lectern. The guy POSED FOR A FUCKING PICTURE as he was stealing stuff and then he PUTS THE GODDAMNED THING UP ON EBAY! What the fuck possesses these people. The prosecutor doesn't even need to offer you a deal, he's got you on camera.

    Sorry I keep bringing him up, I just think he's the dumbest motherfucker on the planet! It's actually kinda funny, in a Schadenfreude sorta way (Pleasure from someone else's misfortune, if you didn't know).
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel View Post
    Look, no offense, man, but HE TOLD THEM TO GO THERE. And they did. It sure looks to me like that was his intent. Sure some Militant groups might have had plans, but how many do you think there were? That genius that stole Pelosi's Lecturn and was dumb enough to put it up on ebay, do you really think he was smart enough to come up with this shit? He sure looks like an Idiot to me. Some were, and had plans, but others were just led by the nose by Trump.

    Plus, Trump's not that smart either.
    A. the attackers were already there when Trump said B. go there "peacefully and patriotically ".

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by miss.a.p1600 View Post
    ^i think the problem is that rational people take that for what it is. Some random speech by some random dude.

    Unstable people read between the lines AND take those words literally.

    This is how Trump saves his own ass every time despite being the ultimate leader who is supposed to have more responsibility with what he says. He will say “oh I meant that figuratively speaking” so it’s not my responsibility that you tore up the capitol after listening to my speech.

    The events of the past year or so especially so just how unstable a lot of American people really are. They don’t hide their true colors like they used to during PC times. The deviant behavior is on full display.
    Again , there is some truth to what you say. Trump was irresponsible in his rhetoric.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    A. the attackers were already there when Trump said B. go there "peacefully and patriotically ".
    Do you really think he meant that? I don't. I think they knew just what he meant.

    Go there and disrupt the counting of Electoral College votes.

    But, whatever.
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by AChildOfBoredom View Post
    There’s also two things about this which people were mindful of for the last four years but are likely going to have a bit of ‘memory hole’ with now…

    1: that did not start with the Trump administration. One place where I agree with Herr Stoner here is regarding media bias. They highlighted the practice during that time, now they’ll be silent about it.

    2: it will not end with the Biden administration. Not likely, anyhow. You just won’t be hearing about it on the evening news.
    Excuse me. If you want to call me a Nazi then go ahead and take the consequences. Avoid the snide and oblique name-calling with stuff like "Herr Stoner". My worst critics and best sparring partners on this board have NEVER stooped that low. Eagle and others have never come close to calling me a Nazi , indirectly or otherwise. For one thing , I happen to be Irish - Italian. In fact I have a Corsican ancestor who was in America just before the American Revolution. More importantly, I have only attacked posts , ideas and the ideologies behind those with which which I disagree. Never the poster personally.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 01-15-2021 at 10:58 AM.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel View Post
    Do you really think he meant that? I don't. I think they knew just what he meant.

    Go there and disrupt the counting of Electoral College votes.

    But, whatever.
    No "Go there and demonstrate and be heard. " However , while not an incitement to violence it WAS an attempt to interfere with Constitutional processes.
    His rally had no useful purpose. The mistake the Dems made was to focus on Trump's speech and the violent assault and try to claim that one caused the other. They would have been better off and made a far more credible and supportable case for impeachment ( that a number of Conservatives have agreed with ) by focusing on his attempted interference with Georgia's vote counting and the Congressional tally of Electoral votes. A number of Trump's supporters and defenders are on record that he went much too far and subjected himself to legitimate impeachment on those grounds.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 01-15-2021 at 11:11 AM.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    We could go on and on arguing cause and effect. I actually agree with you , in part, that Trump bears some responsibility for SOME of the violence.
    However the storming of the Capitol was NOT Trump's idea and appears to have been planned for weeks without any impetus or input from Trump. The violence was actually occurring while Trump was speaking over a mile away. The fruits and nuts who attacked The Capitol did not need Trump's rhetoric to incite them. They were already excited and incited.
    What Trump IS responsible for and which btw would have made a solid ground for a genuine good faith impeachment, were his ham fisted attempts to interfere with the Congressional tally of Electoral Votes. And arguably his attempts to pressure Georgia public officials to "find" him votes. Both clear violations of his oath to "preserve ,protect and defend the Constitution... " I also think his holding the rally in the first place had no legitimate purpose , was potentially inflammatory and ran counter to his Presidential Oath.
    Trump didn't just start to incite violence with his rally on 1/6. He had been doing it for months. During the presidential debate, in front of millions of people, Trump told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by". For the past two months he's been screaming at the top of his lungs that the election was stolen from him by the Democrats. Trump knew what was going to happen. A lawyer for one of the men arrested at the Capitol Building, said his client went there because Trump told him to. When he was at the White House watching what was going on, Trump was thrilled to see what was happening. When he finally came out and made a statement, he told the rioters, they are special and he loves them.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    No "Go there and demonstrate and be heard. " However , while not an incitement to violence it WAS an attempt to interfere with Constitutional processes.
    His rally had no useful purpose. The mistake the Dems made was to focus on Trump's speech and the violent assault and try to claim that one caused the other. They would have been better off and made a far more credible and supportable case for impeachment ( that a number of Conservatives have agreed with ) by focusing on his attempted interference with Georgia's vote counting and the Congressional tally of Electoral votes. A number of Trump's supporters and defenders are on record that he went much to far and subjected himself to legitimate impeachment on those grounds.
    I don't know about Impeachment or not, he's got only five days left. The only thing they can be shooting for is the fourteenth amendment, barring him from ever running for office again. It's just that, if they impeach him, it's going to be after he's out of office, anyway. Just seems like a waste of money to me.

    Why not just go straight for the fourteenth amendment?
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    No "Go there and demonstrate and be heard. " However , while not an incitement to violence it WAS an attempt to interfere with Constitutional processes.
    His rally had no useful purpose. The mistake the Dems made was to focus on Trump's speech and the violent assault and try to claim that one caused the other. They would have been better off and made a far more credible and supportable case for impeachment ( that a number of Conservatives have agreed with ) by focusing on his attempted interference with Georgia's vote counting and the Congressional tally of Electoral votes. A number of Trump's supporters and defenders are on record that he went much to far and subjected himself to legitimate impeachment on those grounds.
    Bro, they tore the place up. Is he that dumb that he didn't think that would happen?

    Wait, i'm talking about Donald Trump... nevermind. He is that dumb.
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Trump didn't just start to incite violence with his rally on 1/6. He had been doing it for months. During the presidential debate, in front of millions of people, Trump told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by". For the past two months he's been screaming at the top of his lungs that the election was stolen from him by the Democrats. Trump knew what was going to happen. A lawyer for one of the men arrested at the Capitol Building, said his client went there because Trump told him to. When he was at the White House watching what was going on, Trump was thrilled to see what was happening. When he finally came out and made a statement, he told the rioters, they are special and he loves them.
    All true. More or less. But your hatred for Trump has caused you to make too many leaps of logic. For instance , you'd have to be a mind reader to know what Trump was thinking , let alone prove that he "Knew what was going to happen". I think it is better to focus on what he ACTUALLY did and said and the fact that it had no legitimate purpose except to fire up his base ; show that he wasn't a quitter or a loser ; keep his supporters fired up etc. None of which was necessary. Some of which was potentially dangerous. As a matter of law that is not enough for anything criminal. But it MIGHT be for impeachment. Especially if the focus is put on his attempted interference intentionally or not , with a Constitutional process.

    There is NO EVIDENCE that Trump directed or even suggested that anyone attack the Capitol. Or that he knew that was going to happen. There IS evidence that he tried to interfere with the Electoral Vote tally. THAT is impeachable.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel View Post
    I don't know about Impeachment or not, he's got only five days left. The only thing they can be shooting for is the fourteenth amendment, barring him from ever running for office again. It's just that, if they impeach him, it's going to be after he's out of office, anyway. Just seems like a waste of money to me.

    Why not just go straight for the fourteenth amendment?
    That is actually a serious issue. An argument has been made by several Constitutional Law professors and scholars to do just that.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    All true. More or less. But your hatred for Trump has caused you to make too many leaps of logic. For instance , you'd have to be a mind reader to know what Trump was thinking , let alone prove that he "Knew what was going to happen". I think it is better to focus on what he ACTUALLY did and said and the fact that it had no legitimate purpose except to fire up his base ; show that he wasn't a quitter or a loser ; keep his supporters fired up etc. None of which was necessary. Some of which was potentially dangerous. As a matter of law that is not enough for anything criminal. But it MIGHT be for impeachment. Especially if the focus is put on his attempted interference intentionally or not , with a Constitutional process.

    There is NO EVIDENCE that Trump directed or even suggested that anyone attack the Capitol. Or that he knew that was going to happen. There IS evidence that he tried to interfere with the Electoral Vote tally. THAT is impeachable.
    How can you say there is no evidence he wanted them to attack, He told them he was gonna go with them and he didn't. The guy went back to the White House. They say he was beaming and gleeful in the White House watching this nonsense. This shit really sounds to me like they were doing just what he intended.

    I mean, half these folks were Qanon followers, who are not exactly the brightest bulbs in the box. VERY easily manipulated.
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel View Post
    How can you say there is no evidence he wanted them to attack, He told them he was gonna go with them and he didn't. The guy went back to the White House. They say he was beaming and gleeful in the White House watching this nonsense. This shit really sounds to me like they were doing just what he intended.

    I mean, half these folks were Qanon followers, who are not exactly the brightest bulbs in the box. VERY easily manipulated.
    I have to agree with you about QAnon. They are a dangerous bunch of Fruit Loops.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Excuse me. If you want to call me a Nazi then go ahead and take the consequences. Avoid the snide and oblique name-calling with stuff like "Herr Stoner". My worst critics and best sparring partners on this board have NEVER stooped that low. Eagle and others have never come close to calling me a Nazi , indirectly or otherwise. For one thing , I happen to be Irish - Italian. In fact I have a Corsican ancestor who was in America just before the American Revolution. More importantly, I have only attacked posts , ideas and the ideologies behind those with which which I disagree. Never the poster personally.
    If I was going to call you a Nazi, you can rest assured there would be no ambiguity about it.
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Probably a good idea to avoid using titles like 'Herr...' then (Not meaning to single you out there's been plenty of back and forth from both sides).

    Again, we are supposed to simply shut this stuff down, but it seems to me that current events transcend the normal strict 'No Poliitics' rule.

    Please, everyone try to be respectful of each other.
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel View Post
    Even ONE is not cool. Send the families to Mexico if you like, but don't just let them DIE. That entire policy was fucked up from the beginning. They were just trying to find work!
    There needs to be some sort of program, where during Orange picking season, or when the Chickens all grow up, or something, People from Latin America are actually INVITED here to do that job and get paid for it. Americans don't want to do it. You work in a slaughterhouse, you come home covered in Chicken Shit every day. Americans hate that, but folks from Latin America will happily do it if it gets them some money. That way they can be here legally, do the jobs we don't wanna do, and get PAID. Everybody wins! We get Oranges and Chicken and they get cash!

    One slaughterhouse in Illinois had a bunch of protesters crying about the "illegal immigrants" that worked there. They got rid of all the Illegals. Hired a bunch of Americans. Three weeks later NOBODY worked at this Slaughterhouse. They didn't have any employees at all. Everybody was out of a job. Go home every day covered in Chicken Shit, sooner or later you'll be filling out job applications. Go somewhere else. It's SOUL crunching.





    Hey Djoser, I agree with you. I've been cool with Eric, he actually makes it pretty easy to do. I don't agree with him on everything, but that's OK. (BTW, I know where you got your name. Ruler of Egypt.).
    Last edited by Raziel; 01-15-2021 at 05:50 PM.
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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Nobody intended those children to die. A few died who were very sick to begin with ALTHOUGH the medical care was not optimal. They could have been released at the border and died anyway. Afaik they were detained because they were trying to pursue claims of asylum and refused to go back to their native countries. Rather than release them, they were held until their claims could be vetted and adjudicated.

    Also afaik the children fell into two groups - unaccompanied minors and those who came with their parents. We did not have the facilities to keep the families together. Maybe we should have.
    The conditions of these detention centers were horrific. They were overcrowded, lice infested, with outbreaks of influenza, mumps, and chicken pox; because detainees weren't vaccinated. They weren't even provided with soap or toothbrushes.

    Trump is the one who made the decision to bring criminal charges against everyone who entered the country illegally, with his zero tolerance policy, which is why the detention centers became so overcrowded, and which is why small children were forcibly removed from their parents. Obama and Bush treated illegal entry as a civil offense. There are organizations that find places for these people to stay and ensure they arrive in court for their hearings. Trump wanted all of them to be put in detention centers, when we didn't have the proper resources to properly take care of them.

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Looks like Trump found an alternative to Twitter. LOL!

    https://www.newyorker.com/humor/boro...tweets-on-them

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    Default Re: Rioters storm Capital Building in DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post
    Probably a good idea to avoid using titles like 'Herr...' then (Not meaning to single you out there's been plenty of back and forth from both sides).

    Again, we are supposed to simply shut this stuff down, but it seems to me that current events transcend the normal strict 'No Poliitics' rule.

    Please, everyone try to be respectful of each other.
    My first language was a dialect of Plautdietsch - Low German. I didn’t use the term to sling mud, I used it because I’m still on the habit of using it.

    And again, if I were going to call someone a Nazi, there would be no ambiguity about it. Unlike some, if I take issue with someone to the point I feel a need to confront them, I won’t subtly ‘throw shade’ at them - I am much more direct.
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