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Thread: Congressmen Helped Stop The Steal founder Ali Alexander

  1. #101
    God/dess Raziel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Congressmen Helped Stop The Steal founder Ali Alexander

    OK, it is now over. We can stop talking about this now. Biden has been inaugurated. Trump is gone.
    Sarchasm (n): The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it

  2. #102
    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Congressmen Helped Stop The Steal founder Ali Alexander

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Their intent was to disenfranchise millions of black voters. Because they didn't succeed doesn't change the fact that they wanted to do it and tried to do it.
    Says who ? My understanding is that they were trying to prevent improperly registered people from voting ; to prevent people from voting more than once using Voter I.D. You need an ID to cash a check ; to get into a bar ; buy cigarettes ; to do a lot of things. Why not to register to vote and cast a ballot ?
    Btw, challenges to things like Voter I.D. laws making claims like yours all failed. UNTIL this year. Rule changes to permit adjusting to Covid in voting were all permitted. Stacy Abrams and her organization didn't have any problem registering lots of new black voters and getting them to the polls. Not just in Georgia but in other battleground states.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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  4. #103
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    Default Re: Congressmen Helped Stop The Steal founder Ali Alexander

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Says who ? My understanding is that they were trying to prevent improperly registered people from voting ; to prevent people from voting more than once using Voter I.D. You need an ID to cash a check ; to get into a bar ; buy cigarettes ; to do a lot of things. Why not to register to vote and cast a ballot ?
    Btw, challenges to things like Voter I.D. laws making claims like yours all failed. UNTIL this year. Rule changes to permit adjusting to Covid in voting were all permitted. Stacy Abrams and her organization didn't have any problem registering lots of new black voters and getting them to the polls. Not just in Georgia but in other battleground states.
    This was after the election. Republicans tried to get millions of votes discarded in primarily African-American areas. Here's one of the cases in Wisconsin, where they tried to get votes discarded in Milwaukee, after the election was over.

    https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/...in/6529642002/

    Trump sought to throw out more than 220,000 ballots cast in Milwaukee and Dane counties, the state's most populous and most Democratic areas. He wanted to let stand ballots that were cast the same way in the state's 70 other counties.
    Trump was specifically targeting African-American communities and trying to get their votes thrown out. This was also the basis for the more than 100 Republicans in Congress refusing to certify the election. They didn't want the votes of black people to be counted.

    You don't need an ID to get into a bar or buy cigarettes. Cashing checks, going into bars, and buying cigarettes aren't constitutionally protected rights. There are many poor African-Americans who don't have photo IDs. In the pre-Civil Rights South, many African-Americans were not born in hospitals and were not given birth certificates, so many older African-Americans in the South don't even have birth certificates, and getting a photo ID would be very difficult for them.
    Last edited by eagle2; 01-21-2021 at 12:14 AM.

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  6. #104
    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Congressmen Helped Stop The Steal founder Ali Alexander

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    This was after the election. Republicans tried to get millions of votes discarded in primarily African-American areas. Here's one of the cases in Wisconsin, where they tried to get votes discarded in Milwaukee, after the election was over.

    https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/...in/6529642002/



    Trump was specifically targeting African-American communities and trying to get their votes thrown out. This was also the basis for the more than 100 Republicans in Congress refusing to certify the election. They didn't want the votes of black people to be counted.

    You don't need an ID to get into a bar or buy cigarettes. Cashing checks, going into bars, and buying cigarettes aren't constitutionally protected rights. There are many poor African-Americans who don't have photo IDs. In the pre-Civil Rights South, many African-Americans were not born in hospitals and were not given birth certificates, so many older African-Americans in the South don't even have birth certificates, and getting a photo ID would be very difficult for them.
    Oh dear. Trump LOST his bullshit lawsuit in Wisconsin and every other state where he filed one. He alleged irregularities in black precincts but EVERY time he was told by the court to Put Up Or Shut Up he couldn't and the suits were tossed.

    I don't know where you hang out but a lot of bars and clubs proof those trying to get in to keep out anyone under 21. Same thing to buy cigarettes and other tobacco and vaping products.

    Rather than keep bantering , what is The Eagle Plan to prevent fraudulent voting ? How do you suggest we prevent invalid registration ?

    Do those older African Americans have SS numbers ? Do they pay taxes ? Register cars ? Abrams and her organization were able to get a LOT of them ID's and get them registered. Under the Voting Rights Act there ARE ways for people like that to register and vote. And they voted.

    I am really trying to understand what you are complaining about. Biden won. Trump lost.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

  7. #105
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    Default Re: Congressmen Helped Stop The Steal founder Ali Alexander

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Rather than keep bantering , what is The Eagle Plan to prevent fraudulent voting ? How do you suggest we prevent invalid registration ?
    We don't need a plan. The system we have in place is working fine. In PA, a Trump supporter tried to send in ballots for his dead mother and dead mother-in-law. He was caught because we have a system in place to prevent voter fraud and illegal voting.

    https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...n-law/2642642/

    States have systems to verify voter registration. Illegal voting is very rare. There were more than 150 million ballots cast in the recent presidential election. The Trump campaign has spent millions of dollars on recounts, audits, and investigations, as well as have gone to court more than 60 times over the past two months over voter fraud. After going through all of this, they weren't able to find evidence of a single vote that was cast illegally. How much more proof do you need that the system works?

    Please stop listening to Rush Limbaugh. He is feeding you lies and you're believing them. It's my guess that Rush has been railing on and on about "widespread voter fraud", and this has convinced many of his listeners that it's true. It's not. So far, there has been no evidence that there was even a single vote that was illegally cast for Biden.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Do those older African Americans have SS numbers ? Do they pay taxes ? Register cars ? Abrams and her organization were able to get a LOT of them ID's and get them registered. Under the Voting Rights Act there ARE ways for people like that to register and vote. And they voted.
    As far as I know, having a SS number or paying taxes isn't enough to get a state photo ID. There are many poor Americans who don't have cars or a driver's license. These are the people being targeted by voter ID laws, especially poor people of color. It doesn't matter that many of them voted. If any person who is eligible to vote, is prevented from voting because of voter ID laws, then the law is wrong. GA is so evenly split, that just a few thousand votes can be the difference between winning and losing. If Republicans are able to disenfranchise just a few thousand voters, it could be the difference between who controls the state, and most recently, who controls the US Senate. The Voting Rights Act has been invalidated by the Supreme Court.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/26/u...rt-ruling.html

    Now that many states are moving towards mail-in voting, voter ID laws are irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    I am really trying to understand what you are complaining about. Biden won. Trump lost.
    It's not just a matter of who won. It's a matter of whether or not people are being disenfranchised. Everyone who is eligible to vote and wants to vote, should be able to vote. State governments should not be allowed to put laws into place that make it more difficult or impossible for certain people to vote.
    Last edited by eagle2; 01-21-2021 at 09:08 PM.

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  9. #106
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    Default Re: Congressmen Helped Stop The Steal founder Ali Alexander

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    We don't need a plan. The system we have in place is working fine. In PA, a Trump supporter tried to send in ballots for his dead mother and dead mother-in-law. He was caught because we have a system in place to prevent voter fraud and illegal voting.

    https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...n-law/2642642/

    States have systems to verify voter registration. Illegal voting is very rare. There were more than 150 million ballots cast in the recent presidential election. The Trump campaign has spent millions of dollars on recounts, audits, and investigations, as well as have gone to court more than 60 times over the past two months over voter fraud. After going through all of this, they weren't able to find evidence of a single vote that was cast illegally. How much more proof do you need that the system works?

    Please stop listening to Rush Limbaugh. He is feeding you lies and you're believing them. It's my guess that Rush has been railing on and on about "widespread voter fraud", and this has convinced many of his listeners that it's true. It's not. So far, there has been no evidence that there was even a single vote that was illegally cast for Biden.



    As far as I know, having a SS number or paying taxes isn't enough to get a state photo ID. There are many poor Americans who don't have cars or a driver's license. These are the people being targeted by voter ID laws, especially poor people of color. It doesn't matter that many of them voted. If any person who is eligible to vote, is prevented from voting because of voter ID laws, then the law is wrong. GA is so evenly split, that just a few thousand votes can be the difference between winning and losing. If Republicans are able to disenfranchise just a few thousand voters, it could be the difference between who controls the state, and most recently, who controls the US Senate. The Voting Rights Act has been invalidated by the Supreme Court.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/26/u...rt-ruling.html

    Now that many states are moving towards mail-in voting, voter ID laws are irrelevant.



    It's not just a matter of who won. It's a matter of whether or not people are being disenfranchised. Everyone who is eligible to vote and wants to vote, should be able to vote. State governments should not be allowed to put laws into place that make it more difficult or impossible for certain people to vote.
    First of all, why don't you listen to Rush yourself so you will KNOW what he says and doesn't say ? Just a thought. And in point of fact , Rush has been disappointing recently. He supports Trump despite what I consider to be some inexcusable behavior by the former Pres. I don't accept everything Rush says at face value. I do my own reading and researching. That said we can agree that there was NOT widespread voter fraud.

    Some of what you say is true BUT there have been some , repeat SOME instances of illegal voting in the last election. However, in not one state were there enough illegal votes to change the outcome. Not even close. For instance, in Georgia a grand total of 2 ( TWO ! ) dead people voted and there were no more than 2,000 other illegal votes. Biden won by over 11,000.

    Eagle, when are you going to start READING your own links ? Just asking. The SCOTUS did not strike down the entire Voting Rights Act. They simply said that nine states who were required to have any changes to their voting laws get pre-approval from the Justice Department were no longer required to do so. Period ! The Court also said that such a requirement COULD be re-imposed by Congress based on modern , up to date data. The data relied on for said pre-approval was decades out of date.

    Fortunately for the Dems, Ms. Abrams and other organizers didn't listen to you. They took thousands of people who were getting Social Security checks and other government benefits and got them photo ID's and then got them registered. Afaik they didn't even have to go to Court to do so. Clearly there are people who were born at home back in the day and didn't have birth certificates. Didn't stop them from going to school ; getting drafted ; working and collecting government benefits. Clearly they were able to show that they didn't just parachute in from Africa or wherever. Voter suppression has proven to be just as much of a myth as voter fraud. Isolated instances vs. isolated instances.

    The case law is clear. In order to overturn an alleged attempt to suppress voting the plaintiffs MUST show that there was an intent to discriminate. The fact that voter turnout by blacks, or Latinos or any other voting bloc is affected is NOT enough so long as there is a color blind reason for the law , rule or regulation. Preventing multiple voting or limiting voting to registered voters or to American citizens are all LEGITIMATE and LEGAL purposes for voting laws. Ms. Abrams and others have demonstrated that the disparate impact ( if any ) can be overcome by helping citizens get the needed ID's and register to vote.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 01-22-2021 at 12:47 PM.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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