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Thread: Life after vaccination

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathAndTaxes View Post
    Well this is completely wrong Bill Gates has done more for the global poor than any other philanthropist out there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%...pment_division

    The CDC is a federal agency, its like saying you don't trust NPR because they take donations, they are still controlled by the government.

    In short this is getting too conspiratorial for a science thread.
    sorry I donít trust the goverment anywhere! Look what they did in Iraq, making up weapons of mass destruction, bombing innocent people and it all came out they were lying. I think you are in very dicey water trusting the goverment who ultimately donít care about the average person on the street x

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela888 View Post
    sorry I don’t trust the goverment anywhere! Look what they did in Iraq, making up weapons of mass destruction, bombing innocent people and it all came out they were lying. I think you are in very dicey water trusting the goverment who ultimately don’t care about the average person on the street x
    I trust scientists, you are using ad hominems like Bill Gates (Which is a conspiracy theory), and where the CDC gets its funding.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathAndTaxes View Post
    I trust scientists, you are using ad hominems like Bill Gates (Which is a conspiracy theory), and where the CDC gets its funding.
    It’s not a conspiracy theory it’s actual fact if you look in places he’s not funding and controlling the media outlet. Ultimately we all want the same thing which is health and happiness but sorry I’ll never trust a man like bill gates from what I know he and his foundation is responsible for abroad. I’ve done my research, I’ve taken the time to listen, read and digest and personally I find it all pretty gross. You believe what you believe and I believe what I do . I hope you are right and we can trust these people however I don’t think so xx

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    The reality is that the scientific community is all over the map on what is necessary and what is not. It seems that most people are picking whichever "science" is the most emotionally satisfying for them. The problem with the CDC, in both administrations, is that it's "science" has been entirely too fluid and driven by the political needs of the executive branch. This sudden shift from 6 feet to 3 feet distances in schools, conveniently when the current administration needed help in getting urban schools reopened, is one case in point. The CDC has also become a little zany recently, most notably with an entirely unrealistic double mask recommendations, like people don't need to breathe too.

    Sometimes a little common sense is needed when parsing through all of this stuff.

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  7. #105
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Sometimes a little common sense is needed when parsing through all of this stuff.
    No, the definition of common sense might as well be "let your internal biases dictate behavior"

    Hard Science (which immunology is) is king, it is unbiased, empirical, logical, reproducible. Its only downside is that it is slow and for good reason. People that complain about flip flopping simply do not understand science.

    Let us not even speak about the "common sense" of drinking fish tank cleaner and injecting bleach.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathAndTaxes View Post
    No, the definition of common sense might as well be "let your internal biases dictate behavior"

    Hard Science (which immunology is) is king, it is unbiased, empirical, logical, reproducible. Its only downside is that it is slow and for good reason. People that complain about flip flopping simply do not understand science.

    Let us not even speak about the "common sense" of drinking fish tank cleaner and injecting bleach.
    Internal biases are already dictating these decisions. If they weren't, schools would already be open everywhere. If they weren't, we wouldn't hear endless panicky squeals about almost no-risk young people still getting the virus even when our high risk population is largely vaccinated. I could go on.

    The problem is not the science, it is how the "science" is being interpreted by people who have broader agendas.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    The problem is not the science, it is how the "science" is being interpreted by people who have broader agendas.
    No such problem when you read the scientific papers directly.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathAndTaxes View Post
    No such problem when you read the scientific papers directly.
    You mean like the recent analysis conducted by one of the country's top infectious disease experts indicating that, due to existing population exposure to COVID combined with current vaccination efforts, that we might actually have some level of herd immunity by the end of April?

    Or do you mean the multiple studies, both domestic and abroad, supporting the conclusion that schools are not major vectors of COVID transmission?

    Or of course perhaps you were referring to the early studies indicating that 2 million or more Americans would die from COVID?

    I could go on, but you get the picture.

    Oh, and anyone who reads a scientific paper without gaining clarity on the subjective elements to the study, such as estimates used, population sampling techniques, etc., is also missing out on whatever inherent biases may exist in the results. The product is only as good as the inputs and all too many supposed hard data analyses have turned out to be crap where COVID has been concerned.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    For what it's worth, I've had both my shots and I'm doing just fine. I am terrified of the variants. The brazilian variant, P1, is quite disconcerting.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by Seatortuga View Post
    For what it's worth, I've had both my shots and I'm doing just fine. I am terrified of the variants. The brazilian variant, P1, is quite disconcerting.
    Same. Look how overwhelmed Brazil is. A 22 yr old died very quick. No chances...

    https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Internati...mpression=true

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  17. #111
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    It is imperative to get vaccinated and continue to wear masks and social distancing. I'm tired of this sh*t.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    You mean like the recent analysis conducted by one of the country's top infectious disease experts indicating that, due to existing population exposure to COVID combined with current vaccination efforts, that we might actually have some level of herd immunity by the end of April?

    Or do you mean the multiple studies, both domestic and abroad, supporting the conclusion that schools are not major vectors of COVID transmission?

    Or of course perhaps you were referring to the early studies indicating that 2 million or more Americans would die from COVID?

    I could go on, but you get the picture.

    Oh, and anyone who reads a scientific paper without gaining clarity on the subjective elements to the study, such as estimates used, population sampling techniques, etc., is also missing out on whatever inherent biases may exist in the results. The product is only as good as the inputs and all too many supposed hard data analyses have turned out to be crap where COVID has been concerned.
    Link to those papers if you want I can give you a direct link to the one about vaccines creating immunity.

    Also you are confusing predictive analysis with hard science. Predicting human behavior (herd immunity and children being vectors) is social science.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    The reality is that the scientific community is all over the map on what is necessary and what is not. It seems that most people are picking whichever "science" is the most emotionally satisfying for them. The problem with the CDC, in both administrations, is that it's "science" has been entirely too fluid and driven by the political needs of the executive branch. This sudden shift from 6 feet to 3 feet distances in schools, conveniently when the current administration needed help in getting urban schools reopened, is one case in point. The CDC has also become a little zany recently, most notably with an entirely unrealistic double mask recommendations, like people don't need to breathe too.

    Sometimes a little common sense is needed when parsing through all of this stuff.
    The "3 feet" distancing is only if everyone is wearing masks and it is still 6 feet in communities with high transmission rates.

    https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2...-distance.html

  20. #114
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Or of course perhaps you were referring to the early studies indicating that 2 million or more Americans would die from COVID?
    The 2 million estimate, was if we didn't take any measures to prevent the virus from spreading. We've still had approximately 570,000 deaths, even with the measures we did take. Other countries that took stronger measures had much lower death rates.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    His Patient Refused the Vaccine. She Died of COVID in the ICU.

    From: (subscription required)
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-al...g-after-easter

    I have two sets of husbands and wives that died in the last week and a half, right in beds next to each other. I think in both families, the children infected them. None of the patients had been vaccinated. They either had not yet been able to get a shot or they had declined the opportunity. One clerical worker in her 50s had been given the chance but refused and ended up in the ICU with COVID-19. The woman’s chest X-ray looked like a white sheet of paper, something increasingly common among recent patients. "The worst chest X-rays I’ve ever seen in my life,” Haacke said. “Some of these X-rays, with an untrained eye you wouldn’t know there’s a lung that exists in there.” The ICU team decided the woman’s best chance was extracorporeal membrane oxygenation (ECMO), where a machine pumps and oxygenates the blood outside the body. We tried to send her out Friday to put her on ECMO, but they didn’t have any beds available,” Haacke said. “It’s been that way.” On Monday afternoon, the woman took a turn from bad to worse. Haacke and his team spent two hours doing everything they could. Her husband and daughter arrived and were able to say their goodbyes. Then it was over for the woman as it was over for 270 Americans the day before, as it has been over for more than 550,000 of us since the pandemic began. “The daughter was carried out, physically lifted and carried out because she was so hysterical,” Haacke reported. “Jesus Christ, this is awful. Other patients with white-out X-rays include a patient in his mid-thirties. “He’s expected to not do well,” Haacke said. Even if such a patient does survive, his lungs may be hopelessly scarred and damaged. “At that point, you’re looking at a lung transplant,” Haacke said. In general, Haacke noted, the new patients are “younger and sicker.” He suspects one or more variants are responsible. “I’m convinced there’s something going on,” he said. “We just don’t have the data to prove it right now.” But even if they had proof, it would not change much. “We can’t do anything differently anyway,” Haacke said. What could change everything in the COVID-19 fight would be if we all did things differently in our everyday lives. Anti-mask Republican governors such as Kristi Noem of South Dakota have been rightly condemned for placing politics over science while thousands died. But an increasing number of governors who started out heeding science are now putting politics first, reopening everything from restaurants to sports arenas to gyms despite warnings from medical experts. They include Democrats Andrew Cuomo of New York, where cases are up 41 percent in the last two weeks, and Phil Murphy of New Jersey, where cases are up 20 percent in the same period. There is also relatively moderate Republican Larry Hogan of Maryland, where cases have jumped 41 percent in two weeks.

  22. #116
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    The 2 million estimate, was if we didn't take any measures to prevent the virus from spreading. We've still had approximately 570,000 deaths, even with the measures we did take. Other countries that took stronger measures had much lower death rates.
    That 2 million estimate also assumed that (1) 81% of the population would be infected (absurd); and (2) nobody would do anything whatsoever differently, even things as simple as avoiding crowds, washing hands and sanitizing more frequently. And that was my point: Studies and estimates are only as good as the ASSumptions that go into them. The press ran with that absurd number for weeks.

    And speaking of assumptions, how many times are you going to repeat your theory, in thread after thread, that our politicians could have done something more drastic sooner that would have made a material difference? Do you think that if you just say it enough times that it will make it more true? We have had this debate ad nauseum and there are an infinite number of factors and governmental limitations here that don't exist in many of those other countries. It's the reason that I don't blame NYC officials for encouraging people to go to Chinatown during Chinese New Year, which was probably the epicenter of the initial outbreak in NYC.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    I mean the nihilist attitude will only get you so far, I mean it is obvious that if you add a infectious disease + an entitlement attitude of hating the elites and conflating them with scientists + irresponsible leadership meant that we are 3 times the original 200k estimate? remember that one?

    Fauci said the 100,000-to-200,000 death figure is a middle-of-the-road estimate, much lower than worse-case-scenario predictions.

    He said preparing for 1 million to 2 million Americans to die from the coronavirus is "almost certainly off the chart," adding: "Now it's not impossible, but very, very unlikely."
    https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...he-coronavirus

    This was said exactly a year ago, well Trump made it that 3x as bad, and trying to divert attention to the 2 million figure is 100% pure fallacy

    Again putting a hard stop on this because it is freaking useless back and forth argument, what happened happened, it was clearly DJTs fault and we can only fix this colossal hole he and others like him (Bolsonaro) dug.

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  26. #118
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    That 2 million estimate also assumed that (1) 81% of the population would be infected (absurd); and (2) nobody would do anything whatsoever differently, even things as simple as avoiding crowds, washing hands and sanitizing more frequently. And that was my point: Studies and estimates are only as good as the ASSumptions that go into them. The press ran with that absurd number for weeks.

    And speaking of assumptions, how many times are you going to repeat your theory, in thread after thread, that our politicians could have done something more drastic sooner that would have made a material difference? Do you think that if you just say it enough times that it will make it more true? We have had this debate ad nauseum and there are an infinite number of factors and governmental limitations here that don't exist in many of those other countries. It's the reason that I don't blame NYC officials for encouraging people to go to Chinatown during Chinese New Year, which was probably the epicenter of the initial outbreak in NYC.
    There were some things that could have been done sooner.
    Trump downplayed mask wearing and let himself be ridiculed for suggesting internal disinfecting ( a valid therapy ) which he fumfered into letting people think he was advocating ingestion of disinfectants.
    It wasn't Trump who mandated admission of infected people into nursing homes. It was Cuomo and Murphy.
    A big part of the problem was and is Fauci. As I have posted before his pronouncements were all over the map : "no need for masks" eventually morphed to "wear two masks " , "OK to take a cruise " ; "date anonymously " have morphed to "stay away from anyone and everyone" EVEN IF you are vaccinated ! His figures for what constitutes "herd immunity " keep changing. It started at around 50% and is now 85% and Fauci has ADMITTED he has played with the numbers. He has downplayed successful therapies like hydroxychloroquine . He said that vaccines were two and even three years away and dozens of other examples where he was talking out of his ass just as much as Trump ever did. Is it any surprise that there is so much skepticism over what the CDC says now ?
    Encouraging people to go to Chinatown , at the time, was a PC attempt to defuse anti-Chinese bias. It was a terrible idea at the time but illustrates how slow footed a LOT of people at EVERY layer and level of governments were in responding to Covid AT THE TIME.
    A
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  28. #119
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Trump downplayed mask wearing and let himself be ridiculed for suggesting internal disinfecting ( a valid therapy )
    Dude BLEACH? BLEACH is a valid Therapy? Disinfectant? Come on. That shit'll kill you. You need to listen to the fucking Doctors and not run off at the mouth when you don't know what you're talking about (BTW, I mean Trump, not you personally). If anything like that was a valid therapy don't you think the Doctors would have used it by now? Did you see Deborah Birx FACE when he said that? And she was one of his sycophants! And he directly asked her, and she sat there like a STONE!
    Last edited by Raziel; 04-07-2021 at 03:29 PM. Reason: I saw that my post could be seen as going after another user
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  30. #120
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Pardon me, Dr. Deborah Birx was the Coronavirus Task Force chair. My mistake, I didn't clarify.
    Sarchasm (n): The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathAndTaxes View Post
    Again putting a hard stop on this because it is freaking useless back and forth argument, what happened happened, it was clearly DJTs fault and we can only fix this colossal hole he and others like him (Bolsonaro) dug.
    Oh clearly. If only a politician had stopped an invisible highly contagious virus that we now know was in the country long before we realized it was a serious threat, everything would be just fine now. Can't argue with that logic.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Trump's 'style' did not help. The Federal Government not only told states "They were on their own", but fought against them.

    Early on the federal government advised against wearing masks, 'so that there would be adequate supply for first responders and medical'. The feds commandeered (i.e. stole shipments) from State governments. Massachusetts was only able to get a supply after coming up with a plan to use Patriot's owner Bob Craft's Jet to get a shipment of masks from China. Secrecy, MA State Police and the National Guard were used to prevent theft that happened to a previous shipment.



    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/us/co...rnd/index.html
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHkzqejFKbM

    This has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

    This guy wanted you to stick an Ultraviolet light up your asshole. Unbelievable!
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHkzqejFKbM

    This has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

    This guy wanted you to stick an Ultraviolet light up your asshole. Unbelievable!
    I have posted on this before. There is no doubt that Trump was careless in his language BUT he NEVER advocated ingesting bleach or other disinfectants. In his clumsy , uneducated and half baked way he WAS talking about chemical therapies. Of which there are a LOT in medicine to treat a host of diseases and conditions. All the way from microbicides to treat dysentery to chemotherapy to treat cancer and other diseases. One of the first chemotherapies was developed by Dr. Ehrlich to treat syphilis. He used a less toxic form of an arsenic based drug called Salvarsan. Ultraviolet light IS used to treat infections . Even internally.

    The problem was compounded by Trump's pathological inability to admit error. He could have and should have taken a step back and deferred to medical experts but Noooooooo ! He tried to say he was being sarcastic. Not ! He could have made it clear he did not want anyone self treating with bleach or anything else. But Noooooooo ! He couldn't do that either.
    A
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    BUT he NEVER advocated ingesting bleach or other disinfectants
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...lungs-n1191216

    "Then I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, in one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that? injection inside, almost like a cleaning'

    BTW the whole context was that doctors were talking 5-10 minutes before about bleach disinfectant and killing the virus on surfaces, so pea brain whinged his grand solution to the epidemic in a total of 5-10 mins, and opened his mouth.

    DJT is the world's biggest loudmouth idiot, do you honestly hate liberals that much that you are willing to bat for him beyond all reason?

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