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Thread: Life after vaccination

  1. #126
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    I have posted on this before. There is no doubt that Trump was careless in his language BUT he NEVER advocated ingesting bleach or other disinfectants. In his clumsy , uneducated and half baked way he WAS talking about chemical therapies. Of which there are a LOT in medicine to treat a host of diseases and conditions. All the way from microbicides to treat dysentery to chemotherapy to treat cancer and other diseases. One of the first chemotherapies was developed by Dr. Ehrlich to treat syphilis. He used a less toxic form of an arsenic based drug called Salvarsan. Ultraviolet light IS used to treat infections . Even internally.

    The problem was compounded by Trump's pathological inability to admit error. He could have and should have taken a step back and deferred to medical experts but Noooooooo ! He tried to say he was being sarcastic. Not ! He could have made it clear he did not want anyone self treating with bleach or anything else. But Noooooooo ! He couldn't do that either.
    Ok. Look, I'm sick of politics after last year, so we'll have to agree to disagree. It still astounds me that a real person can be that stupid. He wasn't talking about Chemical Therapy, he was talking about shooting up Lysol and sticking a lightbulb up your butt.
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel View Post
    Ok. Look, I'm sick of politics after last year, so we'll have to agree to disagree. It still astounds me that a real person can be that stupid. He wasn't talking about Chemical Therapy, he was talking about shooting up Lysol and sticking a lightbulb up your butt.
    No he was NOT ! What he DID say has been posted all over the net. Dumb ? Half-baked ? Sloppy and careless ? All of the above. But he NEVER said : ' Drink bleach " or " use UV light on yourself ."
    I admit I don't get it. What he DID say was bad enough. There is no need to exaggerate it.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathAndTaxes View Post
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...lungs-n1191216

    "Then I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, in one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that? injection inside, almost like a cleaning'

    BTW the whole context was that doctors were talking 5-10 minutes before about bleach disinfectant and killing the virus on surfaces, so pea brain whinged his grand solution to the epidemic in a total of 5-10 mins, and opened his mouth.

    DJT is the world's biggest loudmouth idiot, do you honestly hate liberals that much that you are willing to bat for him beyond all reason?
    Thank you for the accurate quote. Including : " ... IS there a way we can do something like that ? Injection inside, almost like a cleaning ." You did see that it was phrased as a QUESTION ? an inquiry ?
    As I have posted there are numerous similar therapies in medicine. It is often a question of how much, administered how , over what period of time , for what reason ? It is NOT as loony as some would like to think and have others think. Were it so then a host of therapies and chemical agents would be wiped from the medical books and literature.

  4. #129
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel View Post
    he was talking about shooting up Lysol and sticking a lightbulb up your butt.
    Calm down, I was being facetious. I make very short posts, you know that. Trump needed to actively listen to the doctors. But he didn't. Now we have a different President and we're ALL going to get it on or shortly after April 19th. And Trump had zero to do with this, he left it all to the states.
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Oh clearly. If only a politician had stopped an invisible highly contagious virus that we now know was in the country long before we realized it was a serious threat, everything would be just fine now. Can't argue with that logic.
    Please stop with your gaslighting. Politicians in Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, Taiwan, Vietnam, Australia, Finland, Singapore, and Norway all were able to stop "an invisible highly contagious virus" before it caused the massive carnage that it did in the US. Also, please stop turning every thread into a political argument and defending the fictitious argument that we somehow couldn't have done better than the more than 570,000 Americans dead. It's obvious to everyone in the reality-based world we could have done much better if our president took the necessary measures to prevent the virus from spreading, instead of opposing them. Leaders of other countries knew what to do. Your above comment has nothing to do with the subject of this discussion.
    Last edited by eagle2; 04-08-2021 at 02:30 PM.

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  7. #131
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel View Post
    Now we have a different President and we're ALL going to get it on or shortly after April 19th. And Trump had zero to do with this, he left it all to the states.
    Ummm, did Biden invent the Internet too?

    I say that because he's really doing little more than riding the coattails of the previous administration. Operation Warp Speed happened under the previous watch, as did initial federal contracts for 800 million vaccine doses. The prior administration also readjusted its orders to focus on the two (at the time) approved vaccines. Everything that has happened since, including more approved versions and additional order adjustments for those additional approved versions, are all just a natural result of what was put in place long before Biden took the job.

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  9. #132
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Ummm, did Biden invent the Internet too?

    I say that because he's really doing little more than riding the coattails of the previous administration. Operation Warp Speed happened under the previous watch, as did initial federal contracts for 800 million vaccine doses. The prior administration also readjusted its orders to focus on the two (at the time) approved vaccines. Everything that has happened since, including more approved versions and additional order adjustments for those additional approved versions, are all just a natural result of what was put in place long before Biden took the job.
    Rick, the last administration was completely ineffective. They left it strictly to the states, and that didn't work. Biden is on a different route. Now look, I'm not all that into Biden, either (I like the guy, and I think he's MILES better than Trump). Rick, Trump didn't do shit about this for almost a YEAR!

    And, of course he didn't invent the internet. The Internet started as ARPANET in the late 70's, a connection between four Universities (University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA), The Augmentation Research Center at Stanford Research Institute (now SRI International), University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB), and The University of Utah School of Computing. Don't be silly.
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel View Post
    Rick, the last administration was completely ineffective. They left it strictly to the states, and that didn't work. Biden is on a different route. Now look, I'm not all that into Biden, either (I like the guy, and I think he's MILES better than Trump). Rick, Trump didn't do shit about this for almost a YEAR!
    Au contraire Raziel. Like him or not, the vaccine rollout is a direct result of the previous administration's efforts, including Operation Warp Speed and the initial vaccine orders. The current administration is simply the beneficiary of those efforts.

    As far as "leaving it up to the states", what has Biden really done differently? Did he attempt to institute a national mask mandate or try to put in place any national business restrictions? No, because he is as constrained by the Constitution as Trump was. Like it or not, power is decentralized here in the USA. Any power not explicitly granted to the federal government by the Constitution is solely the province of the individual states.

  11. #134
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Rick this is ridiculous, we all lived through and saw the pandemic unfold. Any president should have survived this efficiently because as you mentioned we have all these systems in place. Trump managed to fuck that up, he probably would have won re-election if he hadn’t. I have no doubt he would have done the same if he won re-election, messed it all up all while making himself a profit. The only people who believe your narrative live in a conservative media bubble. People have eyes and this is a unsubstantiated argument just to be partisan.

    I am very critical of Biden but he has done a better job then I hoped on this one issue. This isn’t even the topic of this thread and I don’t understand why we have to go back to the same argument every time we try to be adults and talk about the real world.

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  13. #135
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Au contraire Raziel. Like him or not, the vaccine rollout is a direct result of the previous administration's efforts, including Operation Warp Speed and the initial vaccine orders. The current administration is simply the beneficiary of those efforts.
    Part of it is, but Trump never utilized it. Operation Warp Speed was a JOKE under Trump.

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    As far as "leaving it up to the states", what has Biden really done differently? Did he attempt to institute a national mask mandate or try to put in place any national business restrictions? No, because he is as constrained by the Constitution as Trump was. Like it or not, power is decentralized here in the USA. Any power not explicitly granted to the federal government by the Constitution is solely the province of the individual states.
    Exactly what is he supposed to do? He got left a dog's dinner. A mask madidate is THE JOB of the states, as many of them weren't in trouble. If your state is getting fucked up by the virus, you need a mask mandate, if it's not It's up to you. Vaccines are the job of the federal government. I live in Missouri, Missouri can't create Vaccines.

    I realize this isn't very coincident, but I'm kinda on a time limit, here.
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Ladies and gents, I understand that some people have such a visceral dislike for the previous President that they will never give him credit for anything. But the reality is that the vaccine was developed in a year, rather than 10 (more normal timeframe), under his watch. As goofy as the name sounded, it involved additional funding to drug companies, partnerships between civilian and military scientists, and overall a massive expenditure of government resources, including manpower. By the time Biden arrived, the heavy lifting was already done. Even vaccine funding and distribution channels were figured out long before Biden arrived.

    Anyway, this thread was supposed to be about individual life after vaccinations, so I am going to leave off here.

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  16. #137
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Ladies and gents, I understand that some people have such a visceral dislike for the previous President that they will never give him credit for anything. But the reality is that the vaccine was developed in a year, rather than 10 (more normal timeframe), under his watch.
    So has non-US developed vaccines
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Ladies and gents, I understand that some people have such a visceral dislike for the previous President that they will never give him credit for anything. But the reality is that the vaccine was developed in a year, rather than 10 (more normal timeframe), under his watch. As goofy as the name sounded, it involved additional funding to drug companies, partnerships between civilian and military scientists, and overall a massive expenditure of government resources, including manpower. By the time Biden arrived, the heavy lifting was already done. Even vaccine funding and distribution channels were figured out long before Biden arrived.

    Anyway, this thread was supposed to be about individual life after vaccinations, so I am going to leave off here.
    Gents, I understand that some people have such a fawning adoration for the previous president and that they will give him credit for anything positive and absolve his responsibility for anything negative. But the reality is that a vaccine was developed in Germany without any assistance from the US ('Murica First, right?). In addition to its goofy name, no funding went to BioNTech nor some other companies that developed other COVID-19 vaccines, and Pfizer filed for emergency use authorization independently, getting approved within weeks for a process that takes months, i.e. none of it takes years. Vaccine funding and distribution channels were significantly improved after Biden arrived: there was no rollout plan when he took office, he oversaw a much larger increase in the purchase of doses, and those doses being distributed directly to pharmacies. Then of course, there's the whole thing where he didn't downplay and ignore the dangers of COVID-19, nor seek credit now in 2021 despite not any taking responsibility in 2020; that was a certain someone else.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by GlamLifter View Post
    So has non-US developed vaccines
    Exactly, in science there is such a thing called a control group, non-US developed vaccines are that control group and their speed and efficacy are identical to the ones warp speed was supposed to develop "quicker and better"

    That said we now need vaccines developed even quicker so that we can get back to normal at this rate.

  21. #140
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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by dpacrkk View Post
    Gents, I understand that some people have such a fawning adoration for the previous president and that they will give him credit for anything positive and absolve his responsibility for anything negative. But the reality is that a vaccine was developed in Germany without any assistance from the US ('Murica First, right?). In addition to its goofy name, no funding went to BioNTech nor some other companies that developed other COVID-19 vaccines, and Pfizer filed for emergency use authorization independently, getting approved within weeks for a process that takes months, i.e. none of it takes years. Vaccine funding and distribution channels were significantly improved after Biden arrived: there was no rollout plan when he took office, he oversaw a much larger increase in the purchase of doses, and those doses being distributed directly to pharmacies. Then of course, there's the whole thing where he didn't downplay and ignore the dangers of COVID-19, nor seek credit now in 2021 despite not any taking responsibility in 2020; that was a certain someone else.
    As Sam Goldwyn supposedly said : "Include me out." I have frequently posted critiques of Trump and expressed dislike for him on numerous levels : As a POTUS and as a person. That said I have also given him credit for things done right and tried to counter UNFAIR criticism of him with FACTS.

    To date, there is nothing Biden has done on Covid that was not already being done under Trump. Nothing, zip, zero , nada . Except for adopting a national mask fetish that is of doubtful efficacy. Bandanas do not work at all ; surgical masks are about 50 % effective and the N95 mask is about 85-90 % effective. Face shields do work especially when it comes to the wearer not spreading Covid but strangely a lot of cities and places do not regard them as highly as masks. And they chirp the loudest about "following the science".

    We have posted numerous times that Florida and Texas ( with much larger populations than all but one of the following) had much lower death rates and healthier economies that absolutist shut down states like N.Y. , N.J. , Pa. , Illinois and California . The big difference was that Florida was more aggressive in protecting the elderly AND did not waste doses of vaccine. At inoculation sites if any was left over it went into any available arm.

    The criticism of Trump was amplified by Bob Woodward's book where he claimed Trump knew back in February , 2020 how dangerous Covid was. If true , why didn't Woodward say anything to anyone until months later ? Why didn't he sound the alarm ?

    Fauci hasn't gotten any smarter since Biden took office. He has continued his pattern of never ending change in his analyses, proscriptions, prescriptions and predictions. The only certainty with him is that he will say something different about Covid that varies from or contradicts what he has said previously. Would anyone of us not have gotten frustrated with Fauci if his positions and advice changed as often as his did ?

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by GlamLifter View Post
    So has non-US developed vaccines
    If these foreign vaccines are so great WHY aren't they being injected into European arms. The only one I know is the Astra Zeneca vaccine. It is unclear whether the blood clot problem is a side effect of the vaccine OR it is appearing only in people already infected with Covid. One strange effect of Covid is that it causes blood clots in some patients. The fact is that Europe is far behind us, the British and the Israelis in vaccinating. They do not have enough doses.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 04-09-2021 at 08:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    I have frequently posted critiques of Trump and expressed dislike for him on numerous levels : As a POTUS and as a person.
    Citation needed, particularly on the POTUS part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    That said I have also given him credit for things done right and tried to counter UNFAIR criticism of him with FACTS.

    To date, there is nothing Biden has done on Covid that was not already being done under Trump. Nothing, zip, zero , nada .
    Not that the "hyuck hyuck fake news" crowd will read, but here it is again:

    Quote Originally Posted by dpacrkk View Post
    Vaccine funding and distribution channels were significantly improved after Biden arrived: there was no rollout plan when he took office, he oversaw a much larger increase in the purchase of doses, and those doses being distributed directly to pharmacies. Then of course, there's the whole thing where he didn't downplay and ignore the dangers of COVID-19, nor seek credit now in 2021 despite not any taking responsibility in 2020; that was a certain someone else.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel View Post
    Part of it is, but Trump never utilized it. Operation Warp Speed was a JOKE under Trump.



    Exactly what is he supposed to do? He got left a dog's dinner. A mask madidate is THE JOB of the states, as many of them weren't in trouble. If your state is getting fucked up by the virus, you need a mask mandate, if it's not It's up to you. Vaccines are the job of the federal government. I live in Missouri, Missouri can't create Vaccines.

    I realize this isn't very coincident, but I'm kinda on a time limit, here.
    Moose Muffins !

    What about the Border ? In March of last year about 30,000 illegal immigrants crossed over from Mexico. This March it was at least 300,000. Look at oil prices ; employment; unemployment and dozen other stats and Biden has been no better if not worse than Trump. Even the Covid numbers are no better under Biden EXCEPT for total vaccinations and per diem vaccinations . Both have gone way up under Biden thanks to what was already in the pipeline when he took office. Why have mass shootings gone up under Biden ? Are they his fault ? I don't think so but it is just as unfair to blame him for some things as it is to blame Trump.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by dpacrkk View Post
    Citation needed, particularly on the POTUS part.



    Not that the "hyuck hyuck fake news" crowd will read, but here it is again:
    Oh stop it. My posts criticizing Trump are all over this board. I assume you have the same search function I do. Use it.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    If these foreign vaccines are so great WHY aren't they being injected into European arms.
    ...They are.

    Side note: this is what America has become, a country where a significant cohort thinks Europe isn't being vaccinated.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by dpacrkk View Post
    ...They are.

    Side note: this is what America has become, a country where a significant cohort thinks Europe isn't being vaccinated.
    They are. Never said they weren't. Please READ Post 141 supra. But not at the rate that the U.S. , Britain and Israel have vaccinated and are vaccinating.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    They are. Never said they weren't. Please READ Post 141 supra. But not at the rate that the U.S. , Britain and Israel have vaccinated and are vaccinating.
    Maybe you should read it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    If these foreign vaccines are so great WHY aren't they being injected into European arms.
    because you never mentioned rate until now. And Israel is in Europe now? Add this to the previous side note about that aforementioned cohort of Americans.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    You are obviously trying to pick a fight over nothing. I choose not to engage with your silliness. Have a great day.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    You are obviously trying to pick a fight over nothing. I choose not to engage with your silliness. Have a great day.
    Let's review with some of your statements exaggerated for hilarity:

    "Foreign vaccines aren't so great. Otherwise Europeans would be being vaccinated."
    "I mean, Europeans are being vaccinated but at a lower rate. Just look at the great European nations of Britain and Israel."
    "I mean, of course I know Israel isn't in Europe. It just happened to be listed in the clause that was supposed to demonstrate my great worldly knowledge as a completely unrelated aside. I could have named multiple other European countries with COVID-19 vaccine rollouts, but chose to name one in Asia when I started this conversation about Europe."
    Last edited by dpacrkk; 04-09-2021 at 10:14 AM.

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    Default Re: Life after vaccination

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Moose Muffins !

    What about the Border ? In March of last year about 30,000 illegal immigrants crossed over from Mexico. This March it was at least 300,000. Look at oil prices ; employment; unemployment and dozen other stats and Biden has been no better if not worse than Trump. Even the Covid numbers are no better under Biden EXCEPT for total vaccinations and per diem vaccinations . Both have gone way up under Biden thanks to what was already in the pipeline when he took office. Why have mass shootings gone up under Biden ? Are they his fault ? I don't think so but it is just as unfair to blame him for some things as it is to blame Trump.
    Look, no offense, but what does the border have to do with the price of tea in China? This thread isn't about the border. Not about Biden, either, WTF are we arguing about?
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