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Thread: The future of strip clubs

  1. #26
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    Default Re: The future of strip clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by jack0177057 View Post
    ^ I don't go to escorts, because, I am married. Getting a high contact lap dance might be 'adultery' to most people, but, this is how I compromise my morality with my needs and fantasies. I've been married for more than two decades and high contact lap dances is probably the only thing that keeps me from full-blown adultery. (I get to enjoy the fantasy of intimacy with gorgeous young ladies, without actually engaging in intercourse.) Sex with an escort would be crossing the line for me, even if though it is an arbitrary line.

    But, technology is going to really change things. People that I have shown VR cams and VR porn to with my Oculus VR headset have been blown away by the immersive experience. And, this is only the beginning. Virtual reality and haptic suits and remote control toys, etc., will make virtual intercourse seem very real. It will become a complete immersive simulation. This will be a game changer for several reasons, including: (1) full escort experience, but, completely legal, (2) moral deniability for the sex worker - its not really prostitution, they're just actresses in a simulation, (3) moral deniability for the customer - its not really cheating on my wife, just a simulation, (4) technology will give us the ability to enhance the experience, i.e., making it feel even better than the real thing, (5) I won't have to leave my home for this experience (just lock yourself in your study to 'focus on work that need to resolve for tomorrow'), (6) I will have access to virtual escorts all over the world and (7) 0% risk of catching a virus or STDs.

    I'm not sure what impact this will have on strip clubs. Many dancers may switch to becoming VR escort actresses. The cost of the equipment may be an obstacle for some, but, for those that can afford it, it will be safer work and more convenient to work from home. Unfortunately, there might be less customers in the club and more pressure for extras.
    Thatís really interesting. Iíve never seen VR porn...Iím very curious what itís like! Itís kind of amazing how many new opportunities have come up for sex workers just in the past 5 years. Itís not like Iím trying to be downer with this thread ...I just like to see what direction things will go in the future. I also like to see the mindset of men now, because Iíve gotten so many guys who have never tried camming/phone sex do shows during the pandemic. So itís definitely a change in habits for a lot of guys that may or may not be permanent. I remember back in the day when a lot of the older clientele didnít know what a camgirl was! I actually think the clubs should embrace technology more in some way, but because they focus on discretion, that might not be possible. The only place I can think of that really does this is one place in Tampa that allows online stage tipping.
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  3. #27
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    Default Re: The future of strip clubs

    I think everyone on the thread has presented an accurate view of the transformation over the decades. Pre-mid-90'S, strip cubs and magazines were the primary source of a sexual thrill excluding escorts. Cant speak to much for other cities but in Texas, there was greater respect and appreciation for dancers. Groping not allowed and girls danced only on the table. It was called table dancing in those days. In cities that were booming, dancers made so much money that they worried less about how much time they spent with a guy. The clubs were packed almost every day. There was less opportunity for guys to spend all their money on other things like games, electronics, bitcoin, phones, or shiny objects. For example in the late 80's, my ATF averaged $2500 a week night doing mostly stage from 7 to 12. Post-mid-90's, all those things others here mentioned such as porn DVD's, internet porn, caming, tinder, etc.. expanded the sexual boundaries and diluted a males respect and appreciation for dancers(a real person). What many (but not all) saw online became their "norm" towards dancers being more explicit sexually such as groping or wanting extras. Dancers came off the table onto our laps. So the model has changed, in my opinion. I think men will still want the dancer experience but the model must keep changing to keep the money flowing.
    "Peter, did you take Stewie to a strip-club? He smells like sweat and fear." - Lois and Stewie (Family Guy) ... "Through early morning fog I see, Visions of the things to be, The pains that are withheld for me, I realize and I can see..."

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  5. #28
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    Default Re: The future of strip clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmine22 View Post
    Whatís strange to me in reading these responses, is how all the guys on here are comparing strip clubs to camgirls.
    And how youíre missing physical touch....but prostitution is always available and will never go away. A lot of guys like Rick deal with prostitutes in the club or use the club to take them home. But not every man has to go to a strip club to find that... thereís many other ways of finding a woman to meet those needs(escorts and private parties) . So Iím wondering if the same experience that you would get in a strip clubs enviroment whether itís full sex or just a lap dance, would become something else after the pandemic .
    Massage parlors still exist but they are not as popular as they were back in the 70s. This is because the HIV pandemic stopped many of the men from going during the 80s. So then strip clubs became the preferred alternative because they were less intimate at that time. So In the 90s and early 2000s it was strip clubs, which now have evolved to be more intimate. During this pandemic, it would be safer to be with an escort than a in a strip club because youíre dealing with one person not 100 people in a room. So I wonder what would be next or how it would evolve to meet the deeper needs that virtual experiences wouldnít offer. No one can replace sex or physical touch with masturbation and Iím not suggesting that it would. I hope that clarifies my purpose for this discussion.
    Ouch, lol. I was going to stay out but I just saw this and, well...lol. Sure I do engage in OTC from time to time, but it's hardly the extent of my club related activities, nor do I normally deal with girls who do those sorts of things ITC. I enjoy the clubs for everything they have to offer, including flirty in-person interactions and other less tawdry experiences. If I just wanted p4p then I could do it much more efficiently using alternative means.

    And that is exactly my point. There is nothing else that replicates that full experience. Now if you danced in the 80s and 90s you probably don't like the club model today because of the increased contact. Shit back then a lot of clubs didn't even sell lapdances yet and many that did were tame compared to today. But if clubs had not evolved, then they really would have been competing with cam sites and other online options by offering little more than nudity.

    As far as COVID keeping guys out of clubs, it doesn't seem like it anymore, at least from what I'm seeing here in northeast FL. Vaccinations have been a real game changer.

    One interesting change that I'm seeing is dramatically increased participation by couples and mixed groups. Now this has been increasing for some time, but recently it has been a lot more pronounced. I saw a lot of it during my last trip to Atlanta and a more of it here in northeast FL more recently. IMHO this is a good and important piece of the evolution of the industry. The more community tolerance that strip clubs have, the less that cities and towns will continue to look for ways to zone or de-license them out of existence.

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    Default Re: The future of strip clubs

    Do you guys think we will have a post pandemic boom?
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  7. #30
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    Default Re: The future of strip clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Ouch, lol. I was going to stay out but I just saw this and, well...lol. Sure I do engage in OTC from time to time, but it's hardly the extent of my club related activities, nor do I normally deal with girls who do those sorts of things ITC. I enjoy the clubs for everything they have to offer, including flirty in-person interactions and other less tawdry experiences. If I just wanted p4p then I could do it much more efficiently using alternative means.

    And that is exactly my point. There is nothing else that replicates that full experience. Now if you danced in the 80s and 90s you probably don't like the club model today because of the increased contact. Shit back then a lot of clubs didn't even sell lapdances yet and many that did were tame compared to today. But if clubs had not evolved, then they really would have been competing with cam sites and other online options by offering little more than nudity.

    As far as COVID keeping guys out of clubs, it doesn't seem like it anymore, at least from what I'm seeing here in northeast FL. Vaccinations have been a real game changer.

    One interesting change that I'm seeing is dramatically increased participation by couples and mixed groups. Now this has been increasing for some time, but recently it has been a lot more pronounced. I saw a lot of it during my last trip to Atlanta and a more of it here in northeast FL more recently. IMHO this is a good and important piece of the evolution of the industry. The more community tolerance that strip clubs have, the less that cities and towns will continue to look for ways to zone or de-license them out of existence.
    I donít understand why youíre offended by what I said? thereís nothing wrong with seeing a prostitute Iím not judging you for that. I never liked dealing with it in the clubs though because it wasnít something I wanted to do, and it just makes it hot for law enforcement, but I always thought it should be legal personally.
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  8. #31
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    Default Re: The future of strip clubs

    This really why I posted this too because it’s just getting to a point where...what is a dancer anymore? Are you a prostitute? Are you a dancer? How far is too far? You know it’s like...where does this go?
    And at the same time, some of these places are like nightclub restaurants where the dancers are basically treated like customers and basically just background noise. So I don’t know I’ve seen it change so much in the past 10 years and if girls are making money with it still then hey go for it but it’s just hard to say where it will go.
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    Default Re: The future of strip clubs

    I don't think there will be a post-pandemic boom, it is an industry with oversupply and less and less demand. Frankly, if you want to increase demand it has to be more mainstream which means less stigma (from both the religious right and left wing SWERFS), more social media, and more security from doxxing.

  11. #33
    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The future of strip clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmine22 View Post
    I donít understand why youíre offended by what I said? thereís nothing wrong with seeing a prostitute Iím not judging you for that. I never liked dealing with it in the clubs though because it wasnít something I wanted to do, and it just makes it hot for law enforcement, but I always thought it should be legal personally.
    I'm not offended, just amused to have my club activities were so rigidly pigeon holed like that. If my primary purpose of clubbing was just to find "prostitutes" then there are far easier and cheaper ways of doing that.

  12. #34
    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The future of strip clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmine22 View Post
    This really why I posted this too because it’s just getting to a point where...what is a dancer anymore? Are you a prostitute? Are you a dancer? How far is too far? You know it’s like...where does this go?
    And at the same time, some of these places are like nightclub restaurants where the dancers are basically treated like customers and basically just background noise. So I don’t know I’ve seen it change so much in the past 10 years and if girls are making money with it still then hey go for it but it’s just hard to say where it will go.
    Well, for starters, I think this stuff was happening as much 10 years ago as it is today. Maybe not as much of the ITC stuff, but certainly the OTC arrangements. Where there are naked girls trying to earn large sums of money from guys and horny dudes willing to pay large sums, a certain % on each side of the tip rail will inevitably be willing to take it to the next step. It's been happening for the 20+ years that I've been clubbing and probably as long as there have been strip clubs.

    But if a dancer decides to take an OTC offer that she thinks is too good to refuse, do we immediately slap a derogatory "prostitute" label on her and say that she's no longer a dancer? Is a dancer who engaged in survival sex early in the pandemic, when every business suddenly shut down, now a "prostitute" who never gets to be considered a dancer again? If I'm misreading this then my bad, but if I'm not then that sounds a little harsh to me.

    I'll just add that I also know plenty of newer dancers in this area who are not doing any of those things. I won't pretend to know how their money is IDK, but we have a new young generation of girls here who are posting their pics on Snap and Twitter while they're ITC and building followings of regulars who come to see them. In fact, on some of the customer sites, the ITC extras guys are complaining that they have "GPS" (a term I hate) and that their ITC mileage has gone down in a lot of places. Evolution goes in all sorts of directions and not all of them are bad.

    Anyway just a few random thoughts fwiw.

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    Default Re: The future of strip clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    If my primary purpose of clubbing was just to find "prostitutes" then there are far easier and cheaper ways of doing that.
    I am curious. I don't hire escorts. (I have nothing morally against it, but, I'm married and I've set high-contact lap dances as my personal limit on adultery.) But, if I did want to hire escorts, I would prefer the strip-club/brothel model to hiring someone based solely on an online pic from their website. First, the club environment would allow me to meet several women, talk to them, and get lap dances (i.e., samples) prior to committing to purchasing full services. Second, I LOVE to watch a girl dance, and specially, to receive high-contact lap dances. There is no greater foreplay for me than that. (Do most escorts even know how to strip tease and lap dance? I bet there is an extra charge for that.) It seems to me that a club is an ideal way to meet escorts and make an informed choice. What better option is there?

    Having said that, I don't want to seem insensitive to non-escort dancers. I do realize that they have to put up with a lot of shit when they share a club with escort dancers. And, personally, I HATE IT when I'm getting a nice lap dance, but, a dancer suddenly ruins it by trying to upsell additional services and she gets pushy. No mean no.
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    Default Re: The future of strip clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by jack0177057 View Post
    I am curious. I don't hire escorts. (I have nothing morally against it, but, I'm married and I've set high-contact lap dances as my personal limit on adultery.) But, if I did want to hire escorts, I would prefer the strip-club/brothel model to hiring someone based solely on an online pic from their website. First, the club environment would allow me to meet several women, talk to them, and get lap dances (i.e., samples) prior to committing to purchasing full services. Second, I LOVE to watch a girl dance, and specially, to receive high-contact lap dances. There is no greater foreplay for me than that. (Do most escorts even know how to strip tease and lap dance? I bet there is an extra charge for that.) It seems to me that a club is an ideal way to meet escorts and make an informed choice. What better option is there?

    Having said that, I don't want to seem insensitive to non-escort dancers. I do realize that they have to put up with a lot of shit when they share a club with escort dancers. And, personally, I HATE IT when I'm getting a nice lap dance, but, a dancer suddenly ruins it by trying to upsell additional services and she gets pushy. No mean no.
    Right jack? They should have something on the Independent Contractor paperwork that each dancer fills out with check boxes like this:

    ☐ Regular Dancer
    ☐ Escort Dancer

    That way they can tell who is who. In fact, maybe we should make them wear name tags with their designations clearly listed so that customers know too. Am I right or am I right?

    Seriously though I'm not sure why some people think that this comes in two varieties, a girl who never does anything and a girl who always does everything. This need to slap labels on dancers' choices and put them in boxes in order to mentally and emotionally process them kinda' makes me wonder.

    The realities are much less clear cut in most clubs, except of course for that small % of clubs where girls specifically work because it is openly allowed and they can line guys up one after the other. A dancer in a normal club setting is still a dancer even if she decides to, for example, accept an OTC offer because the circumstances are right to her.

  15. #37
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    Default Re: The future of strip clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Anyway, I've made my points fwiw so will bow out of the thread from here on in.
    So much for that happening...

    So fun fact, I was reading about “Taxi-dancing” not too long ago. I found it fascinating to read about because of how similar it was in many ways to stripping today.

    It was a place lonely men would go to, and ballroom dance with women. The structure had no house fees , it was 10 cents a dance and the taxi dance hall would take half. Several parallels with dancing. The whole thing started in the early 1900s and was at its peak in the 1920s. It was way better money than what most could earn in a factory (the standard job at the time). Many women had fake names and fake backgrounds with their customers. Many were regarded as scheming and duplicitous like many strippers today. There was even some type of hourly time block offered where a taxi dancer could be in another room with a customer in a relaxed setting. I think it was like $6/hour or something? It was super popular in various big cities.

    Taxi dancing rose and it’s golden era was during the roaring 20s, kinda equivalent to the 1990s decade in many ways. But it kept on going through the Great Depression era. However, certain things ended up making things more challenging for taxi dancers. One was the existence of “corner girls”—or the ball room girls who would be stimulating customers a bit more...erm..directly in the corner of the ballroom. A lot of these women weren’t even wearing underwear underneath their dresses. Definitely the extras girls of that time period.

    Another was the the existence of “charity girls”—girls who would have sex but didn’t want to feel like prostitutes, so they “dated” men and the men liked them because they brought the costs down for true escorts and increases pressures for the likes of taxi girls.. And many taxi dancers would end up seeing customers outside the dance hall, especially as time went on. Definitely the equivalent to sugar daddies of that time period.

    As the Great Depression continued, this stuff only got more widespread. And taxi dancing popularity did start waning at that time.

    Interestingly, it is widely regarded now that the true death of taxi dance halls was around 1945, or right when the 2nd world war ended. Economic fortunes had vastly improved, but there was a huge cultural shift that happened to lead to its demise. I believe nowadays, taxi dancing only exists in one or two halls as a novelty somewhere in Los Angeles.

    I’m not saying strip clubs is just like taxi dancing, but I think a huge lesson to be learned from that time period is that culture will most likely be more important than the economy when it comes to the future of clubs. On the bright side, one thing clubs have that makes it more resilient, is that locations popped up all over the country—in city, suburban, and rural areas. Whereas back in the day taxi dancing was concentrated in and flourished in large cities like San Francisco, Chicago, Detroit, and NYC so it had a harder time when people decided they liked the suburbs more in post WW2 America. Another thing that keeps clubs resilient (for now) is the greater flexibility clubs offered to both dancers and customers. For now, most clubs offer dancers some degree of mobility to go between different clubs. For customers, they aren’t as much on the hook when entering the club to participate in dances like taxi dancing did. In that format, they had to buy tickets at the door, and if the lineup wasn’t to their liking, then too bad it already happened. It’s even now easier for clubs to adapt to changing time than it was for taxi dance halls back then. Whether strip club owners collectively will be able to rise to the occasion to adapt is something that is to be determined.

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  17. #38
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    Default Re: The future of strip clubs

    The future is....one door closes another opens! I retired from dancing too and I love that there are more options out there now. I feel like I have more control with the online camming than I did with dancing because you can’t control your environment. I love that we have more options now.

    That was so interesting about taxi dancing Stella....everything morphes into something else. Jasmine, you noticed that things are changing in a direction you didn’t like and moved on, I think that was the smartest thing to do. I knew too many women who stayed stagnant in the business and it never worked out well for them in the end, which is also why I left when I did I felt like I just didn’t want to deal with it anymore. It’s definitely coming back but it will be different. I think the world will be different after all this but hopefully in a better direction!

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  19. #39
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    Default Re: The future of strip clubs

    Strip clubs are not going anywhere. Maybe they will change, but women have been dancing sensually & exchanging their time (without sex) for literally thousands & thousands of years, this type of industry has stood the test of time. Actual strip clubs have been around since World War II while other forms of adult entertainment have come & gone (peep shows are one I can think of at the top of my head). The age of low effort money is over (as in no hustling required, back to back dances as soon as you step out onto the floor) but from reading older posts on here from 2002-2007, it doesn't seem like that was the norm everywhere either. I make 6 figures and I only started in 2017. I have a really good regular who is 21 and comes to VIP every time he comes in. (He is a firefighter and good looking enough to give ME jitters, so I don't doubt he'd be successful on Tinder if he wanted to) During one of our VIP rooms he said this: "Wow, this is really good stress relief." Customers are really that simple. Not everyone wants to stare at a computer screen either. Also, pickup artists existed back in the 90s and early 2000s as well. In fact I would argue a lot of men of today have even less game than ever before. Tinder isn't ordering a woman off your app to sleep with you like ordering chicken fingers off DoorDash, you have to actually have charm & respect for women to get laid with it & most dudes just don't. Tinder even uses female profile bots to match with men so they will continue to use & pay for the app so what does that tell you? I also know men that have been using sites like OkCupid for years. Maybe it is more socially acceptable for women to hook up casually now, doesn't mean it affects our industry that much.

    I had this line of thinking too, when I worked at a shitty club that nickel & dimed us, so I get it. OP, if your hustle is decent, try switching clubs if you aren't making a lot of money. A lot of clubs are set up to make most of their money off the dancers & they suffer the most for it. I'm not saying you have to move to a big city, just a place where the club is set up in your favor.

    Also read this. He explains when he used to work at a nightclub how the good ones are set up. They are really selling a fantasy and strip clubs are no different.
    Last edited by neverendingkneebruises; Yesterday at 05:31 PM.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: The future of strip clubs

    “I had this line of thinking too, when I worked at a shitty club that nickel & dimed us, so I get it. OP, if your hustle is decent, try switching clubs if you aren't making a lot of money. A lot of clubs are set up to make most of their money off the dancers & they suffer the most for it. I'm not saying you have to move to a big city, just a place where the club is set up in your favor.

    Also read this. He explains when he used to work at a nightclub how the good ones are set up. They are really selling a fantasy and strip clubs are no different.”

    It’s called BURNOUT lol!
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    Default Re: The future of strip clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmine22 View Post
    Itís called BURNOUT lol!
    Lol yeah it also goes without saying a lot of us go through this stage. I've had to take breaks from work and switch clubs (temporarily for the fresh scenery) to help snap out of it.

    One of my biggest burnout causes though, was not making a lot of money. Being stuck at my old, shitty club that didn't have many customers (except for weekend nights) and exorbitantly charged us for house fees, VIP rooms and tipouts, I wasn't making an amount I was happy with most of the time and it had me stuck in a sort of vicious cycle. One day I left with $2 after tipout & working 10 hours and just said.... FUCK THIS!! A friend helped me audition at her club 2 hours away & I used money I made there to move to that area. Burnout for me happens way less often now that I'm not struggling to pay bills after showing my naked body. If I have a bad night here, I still remind myself that was my good/decent night at the other place.

    Although, this is just my experience, if you are making enough money/have the job flexibility to support your needs, then who cares what I'm saying or if you're not making as much. I'm aware that moving cities or trying a new club isn't feasible for a lot of people, and I'm lucky to not have kids or any other obligations to be able to do that. I'm just sharing what got me personally out of my rough time & what changed my perspective on this industry.

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  23. #42
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    Default Re: The future of strip clubs

    ^^youre advice is great I needed to hear that. I’m thinking of should I go back, when do I go..? I loved out of Vegas and I’m in an area with a smaller club scene so it might be fun to try just a smaller club again. I actually feel like Vegas burned me out in a bad way
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    Default Re: The future of strip clubs

    It's a rough town in particular with the large percentage being tourists, regulars can only be locals and that is ultimately what makes a dancer's life easier.

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