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  1. #76
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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    I guess it's just a coincidence that the people refusing to get vaccinated all have no science background and have little understanding of the vaccine or the virus. Many of these people insist the virus is a hoax, even after being taken to the ICU for it. I don't see any doctors or biological scientists insisting it is better to "wait and see". According to the AMA, 96% of doctors are fully vaccinated. But what would doctors know?

    I guess it's also a coincidence that the regions with the lowest vaccination rate, all happened to be regions that supported a certain candidate, and all of these regions just happen to be seeing a resurgence of the virus. I'm sure it couldn't be because people whose scientific background amounts to a 9th or 10th grade high school biology class, don't know better than doctors who have completed medical school.

    Long and complicated history of vaccine development? Vaccines have wiped out small pox and polio in this country, as well as eliminated measles, whooping cough, and mumps, as well as a other viruses, for everyone who's been vaccinated against them.

    I'm referring to adults who refuse to get vaccinated. I don't even think the vaccines are available to children below a certain age.
    Would you jump off a bridge if a scientist told you that it was safe and medically necessary?

    Before you start ranting that I'm comparing that to taking a vaccine, I'm not. I'm just pointing out that we should always use our own common sense filter when evaluating advice from anyone, including scientists, lawyers and others. The mortality and hospitalization stats are widely available - no science degree needed, lol. Young healthy people, those who have resistance from prior infections and the parents of 12-15 year old kids (Yes, one of the vaccines is now approved for adolescents) can read the stats for themselves and come to their own conclusions.

    Also, contrary to the outlandish stories in a number of rags, there are plenty of seemingly normal people who have weighed the risks vs. rewards and made their own informed decisions. That includes a solid majority of parents of adolescents nationwide. The fringe types being gleefully highlighted in places like Yahoo and Puffpost are not the norm. Now yes Southerners and Midwesterners tend to have more independent streaks, but don't confuse that for lack of intellect. Indeed they seem to understand the mortality stats better than you do, which is something to consider as you keep trying to find emotionally satisfying labels for them.

    And yes, our vaccine history has been littered with hiccups and missteps, including Eric's favorite polio example. The versions we use today went through several iterations over time and are not the ones that first came out, which along with a myriad of drugs we no longer use were also promoted as safe and effective - until they weren't. This is also something that others seem to understand this better than you, lol.

    Now I'm not trying to discourage anyone from getting the vaccine, especially people who are scared and/or at high risk. But this notion that there is only one right answer for healthy adolescents and young adults, who are at virtually no real risk from a statistical standpoint, is getting kinda' silly now.

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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Would you jump off a bridge if a scientist told you that it was safe and medically necessary?

    Before you start ranting that I'm comparing that to taking a vaccine, I'm not. I'm just pointing out that we should always use our own common sense filter when evaluating advice from anyone, including scientists, lawyers and others. The mortality and hospitalization stats are widely available - no science degree needed, lol. Young healthy people can read the mortality stats for themselves and come to their own conclusions about risks, as can those who have resistance from prior infections and the parents of 12-15 year old kids (Yes, one of the vaccines is now approved for adolescents).

    Also, contrary to the outlandish stories in rags that so heartily feed your confirmation bias, there are plenty of seemingly normal people who have weighed the risks vs. rewards and made their own informed decisions. That includes a solid majority of parents of adolescents nationwide. The fringe types being highlighted in places like Yahoo and Puffpost are not the norm. Now yes Southerners and Midwesterners tend to have more independent streaks, but don't confuse that for lack of intellect. Indeed they seem to understand the mortality stats better than you do, which is something to consider when you keep trying to fit them in these labelled mental buckets of yours.

    And yes, our vaccine history has been littered with hiccups and missteps, including Eric's favorite polio example. The versions we use today went through several iterations over time and are not the ones that first came out, which along with a myriad of drugs we no longer use were also promoted as safe and effective - until they weren't. This is also something that others seem to understand this better than you, lol.

    Now I'm not trying to discourage anyone from getting the vaccine, especially people who are scared and/or at high risk. But this notion that there is only one right answer for healthy adolescents and young adults, who are at virtually no real risk from a statistical standpoint, is getting kinda' silly now.

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  4. #78
    Veteran Member LoveyD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid news

    Covid numbers continuing to rise in my city. Keeping my vaccinated self home and away from people. Lord knows if the virus will mutate into a strain that overpowers the vaccine.

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    Default Re: Covid news

    ^^^totally valid. Stay safe!
    Focus more on what you want than on what you donít want

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    Default Re: Covid news

    ^Yes!

    Hand sanitizer n mask on deck

    Numbers are rising here too unfortunately!

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    Default Re: Covid news

    Here's where the outbreaks are occurring:


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  12. #82
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    Default Re: Covid news

    ^ And? It's mostly young healthy people getting it now and, at least here in FL, it's not putting a strain on our hospitals. The same thing happened last Summer when social activities/events were at their highest.

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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    ^ And? It's mostly young healthy people getting it now and, at least here in FL, it's not putting a strain on our hospitals. The same thing happened last Summer when social activities/events were at their highest.
    A potential problem is that every new host allows the virus to mutate, usually into a more powerful, or more contagious variant. It will be some time before we will know if this happens. By then it could be too late. If regions that are experiencing 'third wave' infections now are an indicator, this will be with us for some time.

    Not a good trend: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...demic-n1272206

    That it only affects 'older people' may not be a concern, but I'll bet most people hope to someday be 'older people'.
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    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by CFMNH44 View Post
    A potential problem is that every new host allows the virus to mutate, usually into a more powerful, or more contagious variant. It will be some time before we will know if this happens. By then it could be too late. If regions that are experiencing 'third wave' infections now are an indicator, this will be with us for some time.

    Not a good trend: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...demic-n1272206

    That it only affects 'older people' may not be a concern, but I'll bet most people hope to someday be 'older people'.
    At this point it's pretty clear that this will be with us for some time. But IMHO that's exactly why we need to stop hyperventilating over every jump in spread statistics and start focusing on the more important metrics, which are mortality demographics and hospitalization rates. We are simply are not going to vaccinate this thing away, which the Delta variant should be making pretty clear to everyone by now, so we now need to come up with a rational way to coexist with this.

    We already have a roadmap, which we use during every flu season. The vulnerable and/or cautious get vaccinated and everyone else goes about their business. The population will already have some natural resistance due to vaccines and prior exposures, so future outbreaks will likely not be as deadly. Treatments will also inevitably continue to get better. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if some enterprising pharmaceutical company develops a TamiCOVID, lol.

  16. #85
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    Default Re: Covid news

    1. Vaccine resistance appears to be heavy in the African American community. They did not vote for "you know who".

    2. We have had the largest vaccine trials in history for the Covid vaccines. We know the numbers on safety and effectiveness and they are excellent.
    Hundreds of millions of people worldwide have now been vaccinated.

    3. The Delta variant is highly contagious. But we do not know what its lethality is compared to other strains. We do know that almost everyone who has died from it was not vaccinated. 80% of U.S. elderly have been fully vaccinated. Almost all have had at least one shot. I previously posted ( supra) the numbers for all the vaccines vs. infection from the Delta variant. This is why the jury is out on how deadly the Delta variant is. What we do know is that the vaccines provide complete protection for most people and for those who come down with Covid despite getting the shot , they are surviving. Usually with a mild case. The Pluses of getting vaccinated , regardless of what risk group you fall into are overwhelming.

    4. There are medications in the works for treating Covid. None have been approved yet but at least one is supposed to be available in a few months.

    5. Rick, there are other states besides Florida dealing with increasing caseloads. I am asking because I do not know but what effects have there been from thousands of UNVACCINATED Covid Positives coming in over our Southern border ? Is anyone even looking at the data ? I think Texas, California and maybe Arizona are having a tough go at present although , so far, their hospitals have not been overwhelmed.

    6. RICK - What exactly is the downside that has you so concerned ? Side effects of the vaccine ? The cases of heart issues in young vaccinated people are very rare. Everyone who has been vaxxed has their own story of what the after effects were. They range from nothing to flu like symptoms that lasted a day or two. The exceptions have been very rare. Literally about 1 in a million. Quite similar to the Sabin vaccine. I'm sorry but I keep dragging that one out because the numbers on it are so well known.
    The protection from the vaccine not making it worth the risk ? I'm sorry but the numbers do not support that. Quite the contrary. Especially if we focus on the Delta variant.

    7. A problem that has actually inhibited adequate understanding of Covid in general and its ability to mutate in particular has been the behavior of the Chinese, NIH , Fauci and the media. Even the WHO is now taking the Chinese to task for stonewalling and footdragging on the origins of the virus. NOW the WHO is saying that it is "quite possible" to "likely" that it escaped from the Wuhan Lab. Depending on what day it is and the weather at the time lol. Fauci testified in May that the NIH did NOT fund any "Gain Of Function" research at the Wuhan Lab. A LOT of people across the political spectrum have called him out on that. There was an NIH grant. There definitely was "Gain Of Function" research at the Wuhan Lab. According to the NIH definition of "Gain Of Function" such research was happening and American money helped pay for it. Leaving aside Fauci's mendacity and conflicts of interest, this stuff is important because we need to be able to gauge and measure the ability of Covid to mutate. Usually, mutation is actually a sign of weakness in a virus. A virus needs a healthy, living host to survive. In the case of Covid and millions of other viruses , that's US, people, humans ! As people build up resistance via vaccine or natural anti-body production a virus will either mutate or die off. ( Btw this is nothing more than classic , textbook microbiology ). Usually, each variant or mutation is actually WEAKER than its forebears. Delta , for instance is more infectious but looks to be less able to cause widespread death and hospitalization. A theory ( repeat THEORY aka hypothesis ) is that Covid was so much deadlier than the flu among the elderly and otherwise physically weak people because it resulted from "Gain Of Function " conversion from an animal borne virus to one that was contagious and deadly to humans. Its communicability and danger level were increased in the lab. In contrast the flu while deadly with the elderly is also dangerous to the young. We have not seen that with Covid.


    Sorry but that was a long way of questioning one of Rick's arguments. Covid is not the flu ! Unlike the flu we have not yet gauged the full mischief making capabilities of the Covid virus and all of its variants. In addition to the Delta variant there is also an Epsilon variant. Who knows how many others will be coming over the hill in the years ahead. One thing is certain. Covid is here to stay. We do NOT know yet how reliant we can be on natural immunity from having had Covid. To listen to someone like Rand Paul , if you had Covid , you're good to go. No need to get vaccinated. Likewise we don't know how protective ( and FOR HOW LONG ) the vaccines will be. There is a lot of talk about the need for annual or bi-annual boosters. But, so far , that is mostly coming from the vaccine producers. Surprise ! Surprise ! The very folks with the profit incentive for eternal Covid vaccination .We do know that getting vaxxed does little harm and affords at least some protection to just about everybody who gets the shots.

    8. On one point , I will agree with Rick. None of what I have just posted is obscure or archaic. It is all simple basic science. It is easily found from dozens of reputable and reliable sources. And yet, the mainstream media has said little to nothing. We get little more than broad brush reporting: " Fauci says not to worry ( Feb. 2020 ) to Fauci says not to wear a mask ( Mar. 2020 ) to Covid overwhelms U.S. health care system , Stay home ! Wear a mask , vaccines are years away " and we know the rest. Then this year: "Covid cases dropping as more people get vaxxed and life returns to normal " to the current "Not enough people getting vaxxed and Everyone is catching the dreaded Delta variant ". In a nutshell that is what we have gotten from the nightly news over the last year and a half.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 07-21-2021 at 09:20 AM.
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    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid news

    ^ Alrighty then Eric. My responses are as follows (matched by number):

    1. Interesting.
    2. We simply have no long-term data. My concerns are with the unknown, along with whether public health officials are accurately reporting vaccine side effects as they have ample reasons not to do so at this point. Nonetheless I encouraged my wife to get the jab (which she did) because she's in a high risk category and the math made sense even with the limited data we already had. But my young healthy kids are another story, though that may change over time too.
    3. Why is it that so many folks repeat the "the unvaccinated are the ones dying" mantra like it's some novel point? Of course they are the ones dying, lol. They took their chances and got unlucky. That falls into the category of "shit happens."
    4. It will be nice to see those medications out there.
    5. I don't consider mere spread to be a "tough go" anymore given who it's hitting - mostly young healthy people who experience mild symptoms. FL is definitely experiencing that right now, but it's not really a big deal or even a major topic of conversation here anymore.
    6. See item 2 above.
    7. Another theory is that COVID was so much deadlier because we had no natural population immunities to it. Once upon a time the flu was much deadlier too, but became much less so as more people built up resistance via vaccines and natural exposures. Look back 2 years from now and I'd bet a dollar against a dime that we'll experience a similar transition.
    8. Yup.

  18. #87
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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    ^ Alrighty then Eric. My responses are as follows (matched by number):

    1. Interesting.
    2. We simply have no long-term data. My concerns are with the unknown, along with whether public health officials are accurately reporting vaccine side effects as they have ample reasons not to do so at this point. Nonetheless I encouraged my wife to get the jab (which she did) because she's in a high risk category and the math made sense even with the limited data we already had. But my young healthy kids are another story, though that may change over time too.
    3. Why is it that so many folks repeat the "the unvaccinated are the ones dying" mantra like it's some novel point? Of course they are the ones dying, lol. They took their chances and got unlucky. That falls into the category of "shit happens."
    4. It will be nice to see those medications out there.
    5. I don't consider mere spread to be a "tough go" anymore given who it's hitting - mostly young healthy people who experience mild symptoms. FL is definitely experiencing that right now, but it's not really a big deal or even a major topic of conversation here anymore.
    6. See item 2 above.
    7. Another theory is that COVID was so much deadlier because we had no natural population immunities to it. Once upon a time the flu was much deadlier too, but became much less so as more people built up resistance via vaccines and natural exposures. Look back 2 years from now and I'd bet a dollar against a dime that we'll experience a similar transition.
    8. Yup.
    1. It is interesting. Even in states that "you know who " won many of the vaccine resistant are unlikely to have voted for him. Btw, the media and certain other people have changed lanes from blaming "you know who " to pointing the finger at Fox News. In particular Tucker and Laura. Neither of whom has ever told anyone not to get vaccinated.

    2. I'm sorry but we have over a year and hundreds of millions of recipients. The "negative" outcomes are very few and far between. I don't see the numbers changing.

    3. Not all the unvaccinated "took their chances ". Some had it already and THOUGHT they were protected. Some weren't able to get their shots in time. Some thought there were reasons not to get vaxxed. I think you are being a bit flippant with your language. More importantly the consensus on vaccination has not been stagnant. It has changed and will probably continue to do so.

    4. NONE are available NOW.

    5. Define "big deal ". It seems to me that it was a "big deal" for the survivors of those who died.

    6. Sorry Rick but the numbers say: Get Vaxxed. If not for yourself then for anyone and everyone you come in contact with.

    7. Hmmmm. Let's see - over 600,000 deaths in the U.S. alone concentrated in the elderly and those with serious co-morbidities. The numbers ARE similar to those of the Spanish Flu ( 1917-1920 ) and the Hong Kong Flu ( 1968-9 ). The DIFFERENCE is that both Flu strains were much more deadly with younger people. Especially the Spanish Flu. With the Spanish Flu there was no vaccine. I don't think there was an effective vaccine for the Hong Kong Flu. At the time flu vaccine science was still in the development stage. I haven't had the Flu in 40 years. Part of the reason is I get a Flu Shot
    EVERY year. Today we still have the Flu. There are different variants every year.
    With Covid we are literally learning as we go. What Fauci et. al. were saying a year ago is now already well out of date and sometimes just plain WRONG.
    Just to illustrate and NOT to try and make any kind of ( God Help Us ! ) political point, a year ago both Joe and Kamala said they would not get the Covid vaccination. I am deliberately leaving out what they said was their reason. Now they are both pushing the vaccines and rightly so imho.
    More and more info is coming out about the origins of Covid. Point being it is NOT the flu. It behaves differently from flu viruses. Unlike the flu it is not as deadly among the young and healthy.

    Btw, do you get a flu shot ? What about your children ?

    8. Agreed.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 07-21-2021 at 11:27 AM.
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    Veteran Member LoveyD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid news

    So anyhow...

    My city's new case numbers were below 60 back in early June. Since they lifted the mask mandate, now we are back up to over 1,400 new cases daily.

    The delta variant is no joke.
    People who are fully vaxxed are still getting covid.
    Children are getting it and winding up on ventilators.

    https://www.localmemphis.com/article...1-09e1e23a714a

    Masks work. I am still wearing one if I do go out. Even if I am vaccinated. Don't want to contract a breakthrough infection. Although I likely won't die if I catch covid, I still don't want it.
    I will be staying home a lot more until these numbers decrease.

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    Default Re: Covid news

    I agree Lovey

    People getting too comfortable and basically over the restrictions.

    I personally think if you’re taking precautions regardless of vaccine/covid recovery status (social distance at least but wear masks when you can; sanitize your hands especially after touching communal surfaces/objects; avoid maskless crowds) it will help people continue to stay healthy.

    Your link posted about the rise of covid in MS. Their governor refused to implement mask mandates DURING the height of the pandemic so this is no shock that Mississippians are suffering now as a result of their lackadaisical approach to a contagious n even deadly virus
    Last edited by miss.a.p1600; 07-21-2021 at 10:58 AM.

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  23. #90
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    Default Re: Covid news

    Well we can argue about mask usage and its effectiveness. Except for the N95 mask, most masks will not protect the wearer. The N95 might and it will be effective in stopping aerosol droplets FROM the wearer. Medical masks are better than nothing. Bandanas and gaiters are useless.

    It would be far more effective if more people got vaccinated.

    While there is cause for concern I don't see any reason to panic. The CDC says that over 100 million Americans have had Covid and thus have varying degrees of immunity. Over 160 million Americans are now fully vaccinated and millions more have gotten at least one shot. Folks, that meets several definitions of "herd immunity". The reason I think we would be foolish to "don't worry, be happy " is the variants.

    The morbidity and hospitalization numbers for the Delta variant are MUCH lower than the numbers from last year. As Eagle has shown , there are "hot spots" but those are based on "cases" i.e. numbers of people testing positive. Not all of whom have any symptoms. Most of whom are not seriously ill and few of whom are in a hospital. A reason being they are overwhelmingly YOUNG. Most are totally unvaccinated. Rather than revive the mask fetish I think we ought to encourage vaccination.

    Some more numbers: According to Fauci and the CDC the Delta variant accounts for 83% of current Covid cases.
    Among 157 million fully vaccinated people there were 4,909 hospitalizations and only 988 deaths. Fauci also says the vaccines curtail transmissibility of the virus. Not sure how he gets there but that's what he just told Congress in his most recent testimony. He also said there is a difference between clinically apparent disease vs. symptomatic infection. We have seen little of the former and an expected amount of the latter among the VACCINATED. He testified that there always have been and always will be "breakthrough infections" with every disease and associated vaccine.

    Btw, Texas has just reported its first case of the Lambda variant. Anyone have anything on the transmissibility and lethality of the Lambda and Epsilon variants ? I'm not trying to be cute. Before Covid becomes just another "flu" we will probably exhaust the entire Greek Alphabet to name the variants. Current PC frowns on using Geographic nomenclature.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 07-21-2021 at 11:45 AM.
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    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Covid news

    @Missap it's sad to see such a lack of common sense because it's only prolonging the problem.

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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by LoveyD View Post
    @Missap it's sad to see such a lack of common sense because it's only prolonging the problem.

    Reminds me of this guy


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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Would you jump off a bridge if a scientist told you that it was safe and medically necessary?
    There would never be a scientific consensus that jumping off a bridge is safe and medically necessary, because science is based on facts and evidence obtained through observation, testing, and experimentation.

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Before you start ranting that I'm comparing that to taking a vaccine, I'm not. I'm just pointing out that we should always use our own common sense filter when evaluating advice from anyone, including scientists, lawyers and others. The mortality and hospitalization stats are widely available - no science degree needed, lol. Young healthy people, those who have resistance from prior infections and the parents of 12-15 year old kids (Yes, one of the vaccines is now approved for adolescents) can read the stats for themselves and come to their own conclusions.
    You're not using your common sense filter. You're using political bias and fear of something you know very little about. Here's what a doctor had to say, based on her experience in treating "young, healthy people" for covid:

    https://www.facebook.com/brytneysnow...00951240955876

    I've made a LOT of progress encouraging people to get vaccinated lately!!! Do you want to know how? I'm admitting young healthy people to the hospital with very serious COVID infections. One of the last things they do before they're intubated is beg me for the vaccine. I hold their hand and tell them that I'm sorry, but it's too late. A few days later when I call time of death, I hug their family members and I tell them the best way to honor their loved one is to go get vaccinated and encourage everyone they know to do the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Also, contrary to the outlandish stories in a number of rags, there are plenty of seemingly normal people who have weighed the risks vs. rewards and made their own informed decisions. That includes a solid majority of parents of adolescents nationwide. The fringe types being gleefully highlighted in places like Yahoo and Puffpost are not the norm. Now yes Southerners and Midwesterners tend to have more independent streaks, but don't confuse that for lack of intellect. Indeed they seem to understand the mortality stats better than you do, which is something to consider as you keep trying to find emotionally satisfying labels for them.
    They're making their own decisions, but they're not informed. You're confusing lack of intellect for an independent streak. You don't understand the mortality stats at all. You're far more likely to die from covid than you are from one of the covid vaccines.

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    And yes, our vaccine history has been littered with hiccups and missteps, including Eric's favorite polio example. The versions we use today went through several iterations over time and are not the ones that first came out, which along with a myriad of drugs we no longer use were also promoted as safe and effective - until they weren't. This is also something that others seem to understand this better than you, lol.
    The oral dose of the polio vaccine contained a live virus, in which case there were rare cases where children got polio after getting the vaccine. The vaccine still prevented far more cases than it caused. Children exposed to the polio virus are more than a thousand times more likely to get polio than children who are vaccinated. The covid vaccines have also prevented far more deaths than they have caused, especially considering there have been no deaths attributed to the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines.

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  30. #94
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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Well we can argue about mask usage and its effectiveness. Except for the N95 mask, most masks will not protect the wearer. The N95 might and it will be effective in stopping aerosol droplets FROM the wearer. Medical masks are better than nothing. Bandanas and gaiters are useless.
    or we could look at test results to see how effective masks are. Non-woven polypropylene masks are very effective.


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  32. #95
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    Default Re: Covid news

    I quoted from this doctor before, but here's her whole quote:

    https://www.facebook.com/brytneysnow...00951240955876

    I've made a LOT of progress encouraging people to get vaccinated lately!!! Do you want to know how? I'm admitting young healthy people to the hospital with very serious COVID infections. One of the last things they do before they're intubated is beg me for the vaccine. I hold their hand and tell them that I'm sorry, but it's too late. A few days later when I call time of death, I hug their family members and I tell them the best way to honor their loved one is to go get vaccinated and encourage everyone they know to do the same. They cry. And they tell me they didn't know. They thought it was a hoax. They thought it was political. They thought because they had a certain blood type or a certain skin color they wouldn't get as sick. They thought it was 'just the flu'. But they were wrong. And they wish they could go back. But they can't. So they thank me and they go get the vaccine. And I go back to my office, write their death note, and say a small prayer that this loss will save more lives.

    As always, I am an open book. Please bring me your questions and I will tell you everything I know and everything I don't.

    It's not too late, but some day it might be.

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  34. #96
    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    3. Not all the unvaccinated "took their chances ". Some had it already and THOUGHT they were protected. Some weren't able to get their shots in time. Some thought there were reasons not to get vaxxed. I think you are being a bit flippant with your language. More importantly the consensus on vaccination has not been stagnant. It has changed and will probably continue to do so.

    5. Define "big deal ". It seems to me that it was a "big deal" for the survivors of those who died.

    6. Sorry Rick but the numbers say: Get Vaxxed. If not for yourself then for anyone and everyone you come in contact with.

    7. Hmmmm. Let's see - over 600,000 deaths in the U.S. alone concentrated in the elderly and those with serious co-morbidities. The numbers ARE similar to those of the Spanish Flu ( 1917-1920 ) and the Hong Kong Flu ( 1968-9 ). The DIFFERENCE is that both Flu strains were much more deadly with younger people. Especially the Spanish Flu. With the Spanish Flu there was no vaccine. I don't think there was an effective vaccine for the Hong Kong Flu. At the time flu vaccine science was still in the development stage. I haven't had the Flu in 40 years. Part of the reason is I get a Flu Shot
    EVERY year. Today we still have the Flu. There are different variants every year.
    With Covid we are literally learning as we go. What Fauci et. al. were saying a year ago is now already well out of date and sometimes just plain WRONG.
    Just to illustrate and NOT to try and make any kind of ( God Help Us ! ) political point, a year ago both Joe and Kamala said they would not get the Covid vaccination. I am deliberately leaving out what they said was their reason. Now they are both pushing the vaccines and rightly so imho.
    More and more info is coming out about the origins of Covid. Point being it is NOT the flu. It behaves differently from flu viruses. Unlike the flu it is not as deadly among the young and healthy.

    Btw, do you get a flu shot ? What about your children ?
    Eric, at it's core, the crux of our disagreement stems around the belief that the vaccine has a sufficient safety record. You believe it does because of how many people have received doses. I want to see a longer stretch of time to assess potential long-term complications and to collect accurate side-effect data before I give it to my young healthy kids, who are at virtually no risk from COVID anyway. You believe that safety is adequately established and that my kids are part of some social pact obligating them to get the jab for the sake of others.

    There are subjective elements to these arguments. At the end of the day, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    There would never be a scientific consensus that jumping off a bridge is safe and medically necessary, because science is based on facts and evidence obtained through observation, testing, and experimentation.

    You're not using your common sense filter. You're using political bias and fear of something you know very little about. Here's what a doctor had to say, based on her experience in treating "young, healthy people" for covid:

    https://www.facebook.com/brytneysnow...00951240955876

    They're making their own decisions, but they're not informed. You're confusing lack of intellect for an independent streak. You don't understand the mortality stats at all. You're far more likely to die from covid than you are from one of the covid vaccines.

    The oral dose of the polio vaccine contained a live virus, in which case there were rare cases where children got polio after getting the vaccine. The vaccine still prevented far more cases than it caused. Children exposed to the polio virus are more than a thousand times more likely to get polio than children who are vaccinated. The covid vaccines have also prevented far more deaths than they have caused, especially considering there have been no deaths attributed to the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines.
    Eagle, enough with the crazy town one-offs. COVID is less deadly to young people than the common flu. The year-over-year stats amply bear this out.

    You're also missing one of the key points for people who are waiting it out, which is a desire for longer-term data. They want to reduce concerns over the X factor - what happens to vaccinated people over time, if anything. This is especially true when it comes to giving it to their otherwise young and healthy kids. This is hardly an irrational desire given the vaccine's short track record and relatively novel delivery system, even if you personally disagree with the need for longer-term data. We've gone round and round on this now.

    See what I posted above to Eric - the same applies here. Though at least Eric has the emotional maturity and intellectual capacity to see the other side of this argument, even if he disagrees with it. He's not so limited that his knee jerk reaction is to assume that anyone with an opposing view must be under the influence of some political, religious and/or conspiracy movement. I mean 'cause if that was the case then the parents of an overwhelming majority of the nation's adolescents must be under one of those influences because vaccination rates in the 12-15 age range are extremely low. Just sayin.
    Last edited by rickdugan; 07-22-2021 at 06:16 AM. Reason: grammar

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  37. #98
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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    or we could look at test results to see how effective masks are. Non-woven polypropylene masks are very effective.

    Your link confirms what I have been saying.
    I was right about bandanas and gaiters. They leak like sieves and are useless.
    Masks with valves = no good.
    Cotton masks = 600 thread count or higher afford some protection.
    High quality multi-layer medical/surgical masks with at least one layer of polypropylene are good.
    The N95 is the best.
    All of the above listed effective masks will work if they FIT properly i.e. a snug fit is essential.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Eagle, enough with the crazy town one-offs. COVID is less deadly to young people than the common flu. The year-over-year stats amply bear this out.

    You're also missing one of the key points for people who are waiting it out, which is a desire for longer-term data. They want to reduce concerns over the X factor - what happens to vaccinated people over time, if anything. This is especially true when it comes to giving it to their otherwise young and healthy kids. This is hardly an irrational desire given the vaccine's short track record and relatively novel delivery system, even if you personally disagree with the need for longer-term data. We've gone round and round on this now.

    See what I posted above to Eric - the same applies here. Though at least Eric has the emotional maturity and intellectual capacity to see the other side of this argument, even if he disagrees with it. He's not so limited that his knee jerk reaction is to assume that anyone with an opposing view must be under the influence of some political, religious and/or conspiracy movement. I mean 'cause if that was the case then the parents of an overwhelming majority of the nation's adolescents must be under one of those influences because vaccination rates in the 12-15 age range are extremely low. Just sayin.
    Just a suggestion. Why don't you and Eagle just agree to disagree ? I get it that you are waiting for more data on vaccination. I assume you want certainty that the vaccine will not harm your children. It seems to me that you will be waiting forever for that kind of certainty because it is impossible to achieve. Very little in science and medicine is certain. It is all varying degrees of probability. Some probabilities being so high as to be almost certain. While not "long term" , I have argued that we have seen that kind of probability with the various Covid vaccines.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 07-22-2021 at 10:48 AM.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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  40. #100
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    Default Re: Covid news

    Why must everything be an argument?

    Is this the covid debate thread?

    Is this a high school debating team?

    Wtf? So fucking annoying.

    ANYHOW....

    Back to covid *** news***

    Hospitalizations and cases in my state have been increasing due to the Delta variant. Today my city reported over 500 new cases.

    I was going to go to LA for a concert this weekend. But not really feeling it. I've been hearing about fully vaccinated people having breakthrough infections and although I most likely won't die from covid, that doesn't mean I'm ok with getting it.

    Ok. Back to Ladies Only I go, where we don't have to incite debates to get attention or siphon fuel from others...

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