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Thread: Covid news

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Well I think I've been pretty clear about my reasoning and it certainly isn't out of some blind obstinance. As a parent the macro calculus is a distant second to the risk/reward profile specific to my children. I'm not the National Director of Public Health, but rather simply a parent whose job is to do what is in the best interest of his particular children.

    When I am facing the choice of:

    1. giving them a brand new vaccine with no long-term data behind it and which uses a fairly novel gene delivery mechanism; vs
    2. the risk of them catching a virus that is not especially dangerous to them anyway given their ages and health profiles...

    The choice is not a hard one for me, at least right now. Now could this calculus change over time as more data comes in on either side of the equation? Sure, but right now, when looking at it purely from their interests and excluding macro considerations, for me the math works in favor of holding off. All of our older relations have been vaccinated and anyone who hasn't is taking his or her own chances.
    OK. Got it. Thanks. The problem is it's not a perfect world. Similar arguments could have been made against taking the Polio vaccine when it first came out. (And btw, a lot of adults came down with Polio. Not just children.) Or this year's Flu shot. I understand what you are basing your decision on but I personally prefer a probability vs. severity vs. cost or burden balancing test. If you were told that the plane you are about to board had a 1 % chance of crashing I doubt very much you'd get on it. I know I wouldn't. If the odds were 1 in a million and I really , really had to get to my destination then I just might get on board. That's not how enough people are looking at Covid in general and the vaccines in particular.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 07-15-2021 at 11:47 AM.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    What I oppose is the silly stuff. The theatrics that have no real impact on the spread of the disease. Mandating masks for schoolchildren is a perfect example. Young people are far less likely to get the virus ; far less likely to get seriously ill if they do and the chances that they will pass it on to their classmates are minute. Compare that to the genuine downside of compelling them to wear masks with both physical and psychological detriment.
    The main reason why schoolchildren were required to wear masks was to prevent them from catching the virus and spreading it to others who are at risk, including teachers, parents, or grandparents. Again, now that there are vaccines available, it no longer matters. At this point, any person who has refused get vaccinated and catches the virus, is 100% responsible for it.

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  4. #53
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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    The main reason why schoolchildren were required to wear masks was to prevent them from catching the virus and spreading it to others who are at risk, including teachers, parents, or grandparents. Again, now that there are vaccines available, it no longer matters. At this point, any person who has refused get vaccinated and catches the virus, is 100% responsible for it.
    Oh dear. What is the world coming to ? I agree with your last point 100%. The problem is nitwits like DeBlasio who are NOT following the science and not keeping up to date and want to continue requiring schoolchildren to wear masks.

  5. #54
    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    OK. Got it. Thanks. The problem is it's not a perfect world. Similar arguments could have been made against taking the Polio vaccine when it first came out. (And btw, a lot of adults came down with Polio. Not just children.) Or this year's Flu shot. I understand what you are basing your decision on but I personally prefer a probability vs. severity balancing test. If you were told that the plane you are about to board had a 1 % chance of crashing I doubt very much you'd get on it. I know I wouldn't. If the odds were 1 in a million and I really , really had to get to my destination then I just might get on board. That's not how enough people are looking at Covid in general and the vaccines in particular.
    Polio impacted primarily young kids and had a range of horrible outcomes, death being only one. But you're right that it did also hit some adults. Given its wider range among various younger age groups, our natural desire to protect small children and the constant reminders of how bad it could be (back then who didn't know someone who was permanently crippled from it?), there were a number of motivating factors supporting vaccinations for kids and healthy young adults that simply don't exist for the COVID vaccine.

    But even with this different personal calculus, there was plenty of hesitancy back then too. It took years to work out the kinks in that vaccine, as has been the case with almost every vaccine that has ever been deployed. Even with a disease as horrible as polio, it took almost 25 years before we finally eradicated it through vaccinations.

    As far as the flu, I don't vaccinate my kids for that either. My oldest had a very scary reaction to it one year that put us in the hospital in the wee hours of the morning. Once every few years, at the first sign of flu symptoms, we immediately get them a prescription for Tamiflu and they are back in the saddle in a few days. Easy peasy. Again, personal calculus.

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    Default Re: Covid news

    Covid news flash: The most difficult thing about the pandemic is that people need to realize not everything is about them.

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    Default Re: Covid news

    I think I killed this thread lol

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    Travel Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by LoveyD View Post
    I think I killed this thread lol

    Nah.

    This'lll bring it back..

    Snip: Olympic athletes to sleep on 'anti- sex ' beds, amid Covid.

    https://nypost.com/2021/07/18/athlet...olympic-games/


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    Default Re: Covid news

    The numbers in my city keep increasing.

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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    I'm not going to relitigate the rather painful narrative that a country like ours, with its Constitutional constraints, open boarders and cultural influences, should have used tactics similar to Australia, Asian countries and several other much smaller countries with more centralized powers. We've covered this ground ad nauseum. At some point a grown man either recognizes that one of the prices of our freedoms is that our government cannot do these things as efficiently or effectively to its own population or he's going to value those freedoms much less than he yearns for other people to take care of him. These are philosophical and emotional stances that are not going to be changed via debate.
    I hardly consider Australia to be an authoritarian state. It's not just other countries. States that put restrictions in place right from the start, and did not remove those restrictions until scientists determined that it was safe to do so, had much lower death rates than those states whose governors based their decisions solely on what they thought was best for them politically. Washington, Oregon, and Utah all had death rates that were less than one half of Florida's.

    Why do you continue to come here, and use these discussions to promote your political views, as well as oppose all measures meant to prevent the spread of the virus, knowing that you are antagonizing many members of this forum? In previous discussions, many here specifically complained about you doing this, yet you continue to do it. There are people here who may have lost friends or family due to the virus, and do not want to hear about how we shouldn't be worrying about it or doing anything to prevent it, unless you were old or sick. At least two members of this forum caught the virus, and said it was a horrific experience. You also put out misinformation to justify your views, such as saying that the people dying from the virus already had one foot in the grave, when in reality, over 100,000 people under the age of 65 have died from it. The previous thread on vaccinations had to be closed, because you and one other person felt it was necessary to turn the discussion into praising your political leader and bashing his successor, as well as anyone who dared disagree with you, rather than keeping to the topic of the vaccines.

    The purpose of these discussions is to provide useful information about coronavirus and the pandemic, not bash government policies that you don't like. What should be posted is what the facts and evidence are, not one's personal feelings. It is a fact that the coronavirus is still with us, and there is a newer, more contagious, and more deadly variant that is being spread. It is a fact that vaccines have been shown to be very effective in preventing serious cases of the virus as well as deaths. Over 50 percent of adults have been fully vaccinated. Of those who have been recently hospitalized and those who have recently died from covid, less than one percent have been fully vaccinated. It is a fact that the vaccines are very safe. There has been an extremely small number of deaths attributed to the J & J vaccine, and zero deaths attributed to the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. If you have not been vaccinated, it is a fact that wearing a mask and social distancing will greatly reduce the likelihood of catching the virus, and that getting vaccinated is the best way to protect yourself from it. If you do have concerns about the vaccine, it is best to discuss your concerns with a medical professional, rather than going by conspiracy theory websites and Fox News commentators.

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  15. #60
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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    I hardly consider Australia to be an authoritarian state. It's not just other countries. States that put restrictions in place right from the start, and did not remove those restrictions until scientists determined that it was safe to do so, had much lower death rates than those states whose governors based their decisions solely on what they thought was best for them politically. Washington, Oregon, and Utah all had death rates that were less than one half of Florida's.

    Why do you continue to come here, and use these discussions to promote your political views, as well as oppose all measures meant to prevent the spread of the virus, knowing that you are antagonizing many members of this forum? In previous discussions, many here specifically complained about you doing this, yet you continue to do it. There are people here who may have lost friends or family due to the virus, and do not want to hear about how we shouldn't be worrying about it or doing anything to prevent it, unless you were old or sick. At least two members of this forum caught the virus, and said it was a horrific experience. You also put out misinformation to justify your views, such as saying that the people dying from the virus already had one foot in the grave, when in reality, over 100,000 people under the age of 65 have died from it. The previous thread on vaccinations had to be closed, because you and one other person felt it was necessary to turn the discussion into praising your political leader and bashing his successor, as well as anyone who dared disagree with you, rather than keeping to the topic of the vaccines.

    The purpose of these discussions is to provide useful information about coronavirus and the pandemic, not bash government policies that you don't like. What should be posted is what the facts and evidence are, not one's personal feelings. It is a fact that the coronavirus is still with us, and there is a newer, more contagious, and more deadly variant that is being spread. It is a fact that vaccines have been shown to be very effective in preventing serious cases of the virus as well as deaths. Over 50 percent of adults have been fully vaccinated. Of those who have been recently hospitalized and those who have recently died from covid, less than one percent have been fully vaccinated. It is a fact that the vaccines are very safe. There has been an extremely small number of deaths attributed to the J & J vaccine, and zero deaths attributed to the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. If you have not been vaccinated, it is a fact that wearing a mask and social distancing will greatly reduce the likelihood of catching the virus, and that getting vaccinated is the best way to protect yourself from it. If you do have concerns about the vaccine, it is best to discuss your concerns with a medical professional, rather than going by conspiracy theory websites and Fox News commentators.
    Eagle, a few points:

    • First off, last I checked this is a "COVID news" thread.
    • Second, you failed to mention that the vast bulk of the 100,000 under 65 who died from it were 50 and older and most had comorbidities. This thing has not been especially dangerous to younger people, irrespective of the horrible luck that some people on here seem to have had.
    • Third, as I previously mentioned, we don't have any long-term data on the vaccines, which are new and use a relatively novel delivery mechanism, and that includes death data and other potential long-term impacts.

    These points are neither "political" nor "misinformation." The second point in particular is derived from hard data, as linked below. Feel free to disagree, but next time perhaps do it with your own hard data rather than melodramatic complaints and attempts at labeling.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...vid-by-age-us/

    The reality is that COVID is not especially dangerous to the demographic that this site serves - young women. That is not political, it is statistical. Notwithstanding the absurdly bad luck experienced on this site, COVID swept through our local clubs without leaving a trace. Several dancers, staff and customers got it several months ago (including me) and they all recovered quickly, most with few symptoms. Knowledge is power and we have been living with it spreading through clubs and other establishments for many months here in FL.

    Dancers have to make informed decisions and the never-ending fearmongering is not helpful. Go back up to moneybag's posts and you'll see what 10s of thousands of dancers must contend with every day and night. Things like social distancing and masks are impossible for most dancers who need to make a living in the clubs. So the real decision facing each woman is whether she should continue to dance or do something else and for that she needs an accurate picture of the real risks to her and those that she loves.

    So moving forward it would actually be helpful if you would stop with the misinformation and political never-ending crisis spin. Yes COVID is still here, but it's not having the same impact it did before because it's hitting primarily younger people now. Hearing all sides of a debate leads to more information flow and more informed decision-making, regardless of how much you would prefer to pound the drums without anyone else objecting.
    Last edited by rickdugan; 07-19-2021 at 07:05 AM.

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  17. #61
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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    I hardly consider Australia to be an authoritarian state. It's not just other countries. States that put restrictions in place right from the start, and did not remove those restrictions until scientists determined that it was safe to do so, had much lower death rates than those states whose governors based their decisions solely on what they thought was best for them politically. Washington, Oregon, and Utah all had death rates that were less than one half of Florida's.

    Why do you continue to come here, and use these discussions to promote your political views, as well as oppose all measures meant to prevent the spread of the virus, knowing that you are antagonizing many members of this forum? In previous discussions, many here specifically complained about you doing this, yet you continue to do it. There are people here who may have lost friends or family due to the virus, and do not want to hear about how we shouldn't be worrying about it or doing anything to prevent it, unless you were old or sick. At least two members of this forum caught the virus, and said it was a horrific experience. You also put out misinformation to justify your views, such as saying that the people dying from the virus already had one foot in the grave, when in reality, over 100,000 people under the age of 65 have died from it. The previous thread on vaccinations had to be closed, because you and one other person felt it was necessary to turn the discussion into praising your political leader and bashing his successor, as well as anyone who dared disagree with you, rather than keeping to the topic of the vaccines.

    The purpose of these discussions is to provide useful information about coronavirus and the pandemic, not bash government policies that you don't like. What should be posted is what the facts and evidence are, not one's personal feelings. It is a fact that the coronavirus is still with us, and there is a newer, more contagious, and more deadly variant that is being spread. It is a fact that vaccines have been shown to be very effective in preventing serious cases of the virus as well as deaths. Over 50 percent of adults have been fully vaccinated. Of those who have been recently hospitalized and those who have recently died from covid, less than one percent have been fully vaccinated. It is a fact that the vaccines are very safe. There has been an extremely small number of deaths attributed to the J & J vaccine, and zero deaths attributed to the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. If you have not been vaccinated, it is a fact that wearing a mask and social distancing will greatly reduce the likelihood of catching the virus, and that getting vaccinated is the best way to protect yourself from it. If you do have concerns about the vaccine, it is best to discuss your concerns with a medical professional, rather than going by conspiracy theory websites and Fox News commentators.
    I’ll answer this for you.

    Some males in this forum exhibit low ego Typical Troll Behavior. You will literally waste your time arguing with crazy…..esp for free

    My dad always says ‘you can’t expect pigeons to soar like eagles’

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  19. #62
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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by miss.a.p1600 View Post
    I’ll answer this for you.

    Some males in this forum exhibit low ego Typical Troll Behavior. You will literally waste your time arguing with crazy…..esp for free

    My dad always says ‘you can’t expect pigeons to soar like eagles’
    He's soaring alright...far, far away from the practical and real world considerations of 10s of thousands of dancers nationwide who don't share his views. If they did the clubs would be a much quieter place right now. One of the few real active dancers posting in this thread was almost apologetic for speaking up about how she had to go to work to pay the bills and couldn't realistically mask or socially distance, yet he "soared on" (some would call it "plowed ahead") anyway.

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  21. #63
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    Default Re: Covid news

    Having been swatted on the nose with a rolled up newspaper by our Moderator, I am admittedly taking a dive on anything that might be construed ( rightly, wrongly , fairly , unfairly ) as "political". Secondly , I think it is more constructive to move forward rather than dredge up old arguments and grievances. It hasn't been Rick or I who have continually harkened back to LAST YEAR with copious mention and finger pointing based on who was POTUS at the time. There is one poster on here who never misses an opportunity to remind us. So before anyone complains too much about Rick or anyone else with alternate views that are not approved by the Poobahs of Social Media they might want to avoid the personal attacks that create all the heat in the first place. My understanding is that the politics ban was designed and intended to lower the temperature and improve the discourse by inter alia, not providing grounds or excuses for personal attacks. I've been guilty of going over the line and delving into topics best left alone. I've said things better left unsaid ( at least here on S-Web ) and so have several other people. No need to take it personally Eagle. We're all sinners afaic.

    That being said, the FACT is that Covid vaccines were all approved by the FDA on an EMERGENCY basis which is A reason why no state can mandate vaccination. My understanding is that we cannot be compelled to be vaccinated with such a designation. However, I still think that the reasons to get vaccinated ( regardless of whether you have had Covid ) outweigh any reason not to. The Delta variant is so highly contagious that many medical experts are saying that not being vaccinated will virtually guarantee catching that variant. And while I love and believe in personal freedom there is a still a Social Contract that comes into play. I , and others ought to be free to do what we want or not do something SO LONG AS our action or inaction does not adversely affect someone else. This is especially so when there is a minimal cost or burden to us. That seems to be the sticking point for Rick . Unless I have misread his posts.

    Rick has made several arguments for not just blindly following the herd, particularly where his children are concerned. Given the history and current state of the data for the Covid vaccines , those arguments are not just limited to fever swamps and right wing blogs. I disagree but I can't say that his concerns are groundless.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 07-19-2021 at 09:06 AM.

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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by whirlerz View Post
    Nah.

    This'lll bring it back..

    Snip: Olympic athletes to sleep on 'anti- sex ' beds, amid Covid.

    https://nypost.com/2021/07/18/athlet...olympic-games/
    Condoms will be distributed to the athletes — but not until they’re leaving the Tokyo Games. Athletes will be allowed to bring alcohol into the village — but allowed to consume it only if they’re alone in their rooms.

    The distribution of condoms at the Olympics began in 1988 to raise awareness of HIV and AIDS, and the number condoms given away at subsequent Games has skyrocketed. From 8,500 at the Seoul Games in 1988 to 450,000 at the Rio Games in 2016 Olympics, where Brazilian officials sought to curb the spread of the Zika virus.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...yo/7763989002/

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  24. #65
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    Default Re: Covid news

    Btw, the Dow is tanking today over fears of renewed Covid lockdowns.

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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Rick has made several arguments for not just blindly following the herd, particularly where his children are concerned. Given the history and current state of the data for the Covid vaccines , those arguments are not just limited to fever swamps and right wing blogs. I disagree but I can't say that his concerns are groundless.
    People who are getting vaccinated aren't blindly following the herd. People are getting vaccinated based on the fact that the vaccines have been proven safe and effective at preventing serious cases of coronavirus. The ones who are blindly following the herd, are the ones who refuse to get vaccinated, based on crazy conspiracy theories they're reading on the internet or in emails being passed around, rather than going by the actual facts and evidence. Many of these people are ending up in the ICU, or worse.

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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    People who are getting vaccinated aren't blindly following the herd. People are getting vaccinated based on the fact that the vaccines have been proven safe and effective at preventing serious cases of coronavirus. The ones who are blindly following the herd, are the ones who refuse to get vaccinated, based on crazy conspiracy theories they're reading on the internet or in emails being passed around, rather than going by the actual facts and evidence. Many of these people are ending up in the ICU, or worse.
    ^Exactly! I choose life over the stupidity that the non vaxxers seem to have. It's one thing to not get it bc you have a severe reaction but to not get it just because.... sooo reckless & stupid.
    I'm sorry but I'd rather take "an emergency vaccine" that has already *gasp* been approved by FDA than rely on faith or luck that I'll be ok without it. I was ready to start living again & so yea call me a sheep IDGAF. Fact is I feel safer now than I did a year ago & I'm out living again. I can't believe people aren't getting it, I just can't *smdh*.
    "Alot of people are afraid to say what they want, that's why they don't get what they want"~ Madonna




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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Having been swatted on the nose with a rolled up newspaper by our Moderator, I am admittedly taking a dive on anything that might be construed ( rightly, wrongly , fairly , unfairly ) as "political". Secondly , I think it is more constructive to move forward rather than dredge up old arguments and grievances. It hasn't been Rick or I who have continually harkened back to LAST YEAR with copious mention and finger pointing based on who was POTUS at the time. There is one poster on here who never misses an opportunity to remind us. So before anyone complains too much about Rick or anyone else with alternate views that are not approved by the Poobahs of Social Media they might want to avoid the personal attacks that create all the heat in the first place. My understanding is that the politics ban was designed and intended to lower the temperature and improve the discourse by inter alia, not providing grounds or excuses for personal attacks. I've been guilty of going over the line and delving into topics best left alone. I've said things better left unsaid ( at least here on S-Web ) and so have several other people. No need to take it personally Eagle. We're all sinners afaic.

    That being said, the FACT is that Covid vaccines were all approved by the FDA on an EMERGENCY basis which is A reason why no state can mandate vaccination. My understanding is that we cannot be compelled to be vaccinated with such a designation. However, I still think that the reasons to get vaccinated ( regardless of whether you have had Covid ) outweigh any reason not to. The Delta variant is so highly contagious that many medical experts are saying that not being vaccinated will virtually guarantee catching that variant. And while I love and believe in personal freedom there is a still a Social Contract that comes into play. I , and others ought to be free to do what we want or not do something SO LONG AS our action or inaction does not adversely affect someone else. This is especially so when there is a minimal cost or burden to us. That seems to be the sticking point for Rick . Unless I have misread his posts.

    Rick has made several arguments for not just blindly following the herd, particularly where his children are concerned. Given the history and current state of the data for the Covid vaccines , those arguments are not just limited to fever swamps and right wing blogs. I disagree but I can't say that his concerns are groundless.
    Eric, unfortunately an ever increasing percentage of our society has lost the ability to intellectually and emotionally process differences of opinion. It's far easier and much more emotionally satisfying to try to slap labels on opposing views rather than to try to see it through a different lens.

    Saying nothing that is new and has no long-term data behind it is "proven safe" will inevitably fall on deaf ears to someone who emotionally needs it to be so. To someone like that, the only conclusion that he can draw is that it must be an ignorant political stance, or a product of some conspiracy, or an emotional "anti-vaxxer" position. It couldn't possibly be a person looking at this through the lens of this country's long and complicated history of vaccine development who might be taking an understandable (whether you agree or disagree) "wait and see" approach until more time has passed. Nope, this person must be a Trumpist.

    And for young people who are getting vaccinated in much smaller numbers, the issue couldn't possibly be that they have seen the mortality numbers and many of their peers easily weather COVID and have rationally conducted their own risk/reward calculation. Nope, the issue must be messaging. Same too of course with the majority of dastardly parents who take the vaccine themselves but who are selfishly not inoculating their adolescent children for something that isn't dangerous to them anyway. Sheesh.

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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    People who are getting vaccinated aren't blindly following the herd. People are getting vaccinated based on the fact that the vaccines have been proven safe and effective at preventing serious cases of coronavirus. The ones who are blindly following the herd, are the ones who refuse to get vaccinated, based on crazy conspiracy theories they're reading on the internet or in emails being passed around, rather than going by the actual facts and evidence. Many of these people are ending up in the ICU, or worse.
    That is partially true. There is no doubt that SOME vaccine resistance is based on junk. Junk science , factual delinquency , wacko conspiracy theories etc. etc. yada , yada. But and it's a big BUT there are some sound bases for people not to get vaccinated . I AGREE with you that imho they are not adequate the overcome the positives for getting vaxxed. But some young people have come down with myocarditis and/or endocarditis caused by the vaccine. And young people are the least vulnerable group. A reason why I personally reject the argument is that this sort of thing is seen with every medication and with every vaccine. The Sabin vaccine ( which replaced the Salk vaccine) was linked to several cases of polio in children who got the sugar cube. Sabin used a live but attenuated polio virus while Salk used a dead virus. I hate to say it but I am old enough to remember lining up with my classmates in First Grade and getting a sugar cube containing Sabin's oral vaccine. That was after getting Salk's vaccine in my pediatrician's office when I was 3. The odds of getting polio from Sabin's vaccine were literally one in a million. The positives were incalculable.
    The vaccine was just starting to be widely distributed. I don't know but according to Rick's argument, my classmates and I were human guinea pigs because it was only a year or two after the vaccine was approved. There was no "wait and see " attitude . No sitting on the sideline waiting for more data.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 07-20-2021 at 08:01 AM.

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    Default Re: Covid news

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Saying nothing that is new and has no long-term data behind it is "proven safe" will inevitably fall on deaf ears to someone who emotionally needs it to be so. To someone like that, the only conclusion that he can draw is that it must be an ignorant political stance, or a product of some conspiracy, or an emotional "anti-vaxxer" position. It couldn't possibly be a person looking at this through the lens of this country's long and complicated history of vaccine development who might be taking an understandable (whether you agree or disagree) "wait and see" approach until more time has passed. Nope, this person must be a Trumpist.
    I guess it's just a coincidence that the people refusing to get vaccinated all have no science background and have little understanding of the vaccine or the virus. Many of these people insist the virus is a hoax, even after being taken to the ICU for it. I don't see any doctors or biological scientists insisting it is better to "wait and see". According to the AMA, 96% of doctors are fully vaccinated. But what would doctors know?

    I guess it's also a coincidence that the regions with the lowest vaccination rate, all happened to be regions that supported a certain candidate, and all of these regions just happen to be seeing a resurgence of the virus. I'm sure it couldn't be because people whose scientific background amounts to a 9th or 10th grade high school biology class, don't know better than doctors who have completed medical school.

    Long and complicated history of vaccine development? Vaccines have wiped out small pox and polio in this country, as well as eliminated measles, whooping cough, and mumps, as well as a other viruses, for everyone who's been vaccinated against them.


    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    And for young people who are getting vaccinated in much smaller numbers, the issue couldn't possibly be that they have seen the mortality numbers and many of their peers easily weather COVID and have rationally conducted their own risk/reward calculation. Nope, the issue must be messaging. Same too of course with the majority of dastardly parents who take the vaccine themselves but who are selfishly not inoculating their adolescent children for something that isn't dangerous to them anyway. Sheesh.
    I'm referring to adults who refuse to get vaccinated. I don't even think the vaccines are available to children below a certain age.

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    Default Re: Covid news

    Florida shows how quickly the Delta Variant can spread. Thank you Gov. DeSantis.


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    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    I guess it's just a coincidence that the people refusing to get vaccinated all have no science background and have little understanding of the vaccine or the virus. Many of these people insist the virus is a hoax, even after being taken to the ICU for it. I don't see any doctors or biological scientists insisting it is better to "wait and see". According to the AMA, 96% of doctors are fully vaccinated. But what would doctors know?

    I guess it's also a coincidence that the regions with the lowest vaccination rate, all happened to be regions that supported a certain candidate, and all of these regions just happen to be seeing a resurgence of the virus. I'm sure it couldn't be because people whose scientific background amounts to a 9th or 10th grade high school biology class, don't know better than doctors who have completed medical school.

    Long and complicated history of vaccine development? Vaccines have wiped out small pox and polio in this country, as well as eliminated measles, whooping cough, and mumps, as well as a other viruses, for everyone who's been vaccinated against them.




    I'm referring to adults who refuse to get vaccinated. I don't even think the vaccines are available to children below a certain age.
    " All have no science background "... " I don't see any doctors or biological scientists " ... "96% of doctors are fully vaccinated ".
    As to the first snippet , you don't know that. It's just an assumption on your part.
    You don't see any doctors or scientists taking contrary positions because you don't want to see them. They are out there and have excellent credentials. The gist of the disagreement is over vaccinating and otherwise trying to bubble wrap CHILDREN.
    Measles has NOT been eliminated. And it wasn't the tobacco chewing folks you like so much. Do a search , here on this board and see what group was primarily responsible for the recent resurgence. And most of them lived in N.Y and N.J.
    There is also disagreement among the scientists as to whether those who have had Covid ought to get vaccinated. Their bodies now have anti-bodies against Covid and some if them have questioned why they have to get a vaccine that does the same exact thing.
    All this being said, I still AGREE with you. I think almost everybody ought to get vaccinated unless they have a sound , science based medical reason not to.

    Btw, as I pointed out vaccines have not been developed in a risk free vacuum. The Sabin vaccine did result in some children getting polio.

    This is another example of you leaping at every opportunity to criticize "you know who " and the people that voted for him. Despite a "politics ban". Naughty !
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 07-20-2021 at 11:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Florida shows how quickly the Delta Variant can spread. Thank you Gov. DeSantis.

    Your point is what ? There are other states where the Delta variant has spread even faster. As we've discussed these "cases" simply mean someone tested positive for the virus variant. Not all got sick. Of those that did , most had a mild case not requiring hospitalization. What are the hospitalization rates ? For vaccinated people vs. unvaccinated ? What are the death rates for both groups ?

    According to the CDC , if you have gotten the Pfizer vaccine you have an 88% chance of NOT getting the Delta variant. 87% for Moderna. 85% for Johnson & Johnson. And if you do get it chances are excellent it will be mild and short.

    Afaik, Governor DeSantis did everything he could to get people vaccinated starting with the most vulnerable.
    As we discussed he protected the elderly ; avoided draconian shutdowns and got the vaccine to those that needed it.
    While I think they ought to be vaccinated , children have the lowest risk from Covid. If people in Florida want to mask up nobody is stopping them. I had to wear a mask in all common INDOOR areas of my hotel. Same for all of Broward, Dade , Palm Beach and I think Hillsborough. Why the gratuitous slap at DeSantis ? Why not echo the current POTUS and blame Facebook ?

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    I said, "measles, whooping cough, and mumps, as well as a other viruses, have been eliminated for everyone who's been vaccinated against them."

    AMA survey shows over 96% of doctors fully vaccinated against COVID-19

    https://www.ama-assn.org/press-cente...ainst-covid-19

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    That's right. Although I am curious about the 4 % of doctors who are NOT vaccinated. Have any said WHY ? Did they have Covid ?

    We AGREE. I think more people should get vaccinated. Especially when almost everyone who has DIED from the Delta variant was not vaccinated. I'm doing this on tip toes for obvious reasons but if you look at WHO is not getting vaxxed and where they live it is clear that a LOT of them were highly unlikely to have been "you know who " voters. Likewise we are letting in a LOT of folks down in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California without testing them for Covid and we are letting them go anywhere in the U.S. that they want to. Do you see a possible connection ?

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