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Thread: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

  1. #101
    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    You're greatly overstating the impact of labor contracts that include COLA, on the economy. Only approximately 10% of American workers belong to a union. Wages are up because of increased demand for labor due to strong economic growth. For decades a disproportionate amount of income has been going to millionaire and billionaire business owners and executives, while the many workers have been barely making enough to survive. After decades of unprecedented increases in income inequality, workers finally have leverage to improve their living standards. No matter what the results are, you and Eric will not be happy, if you don't like the government policies. If income increased zero percent in 2021, you would be bashing President Biden because wages are flat. Now that wages are increasing, you're bashing him for that.



    None of the above has anything at all to do with the increased price of oil. The Build Back Better bill hasn't even become law. Oil is up because demand is up, due to increased economic growth in the US and other countries. US domestic oil production has increased by 1/2 million barrels per day, since President Biden's inauguration.



    Oil producers are only producing oil on approximately 40% of federal land leased to them, so not leasing additional land to them will have zero impact on oil production. Only 25% of US domestic oil production comes from federal land. The freeze on leasing federal land to oil companies has no effect on privately held land.
    I have repeatedly posted that wages are NOT keeping up with inflation. Not since "What's His Name " took office.

    If you take the time to really READ the BBB Bill it is fairly clear that the biggest beneficiaries will be the highest earners. Those who have suffered and will suffer the most are the middle class and lower earners.

    Oil is up as a result of increased demand AND reduced U.S. production. The Alaska pipeline is running at 400,000 barrels per day. New drilling is down. Every well runs dry sooner or later. When "You Know Who " was in office oil producers would drill additional wells. Today they are doing so at a much lower rate.

    Eagle - How do YOU explain the reduction in domestic oil production of at least 2 million barrels per day ? According to your demand driven model , producers should be ramping up production to capitalize on the higher prices for crude and natural gas.
    A
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  2. #102
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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Again, oil production has increased by 1/2 million barrels a day since Biden became President.
    Production is still DOWN about 2 million barrels per day. We went from being a net exporter back to being a net importer. Why else would "What's His Name " beg OPEC and Putin to produce more oil ?
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 11-22-2021 at 12:28 PM.
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  3. #103
    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Now "What's His Name" is releasing 50 million barrels from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. Brilliant !
    First of all, that reserve is designed and intended to provide oil in case of a major shut-off like a war in the Middle East or another Arab Oil Boycott.
    More importantly it represents only 4 to 5 days of domestic oil production. Any effect on oil prices will be minimal and short lived. Then what ?
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

  4. #104
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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Now "What's His Name" is releasing 50 million barrels from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. Brilliant !
    First of all, that reserve is designed and intended to provide oil in case of a major shut-off like a war in the Middle East or another Arab Oil Boycott.
    More importantly it represents only 4 to 5 days of domestic oil production. Any effect on oil prices will be minimal and short lived. Then what ?
    Yup. The price of oil has actually gone up since that stupendous announcement.

    It was just more of the same political theatre for the masses, like his directive to the FTC to investigate price gouging and his pleas to domestic and overseas oil producers to pump more. This Administration and the oil traders all know the true cause of our predicament, which is this Administration's insistence on keeping its boot on the necks of U.S. oil producers. But they can't very well admit their own ongoing culpability in causing higher prices in pursuit of their social agenda, so instead they keep the smoke and mirrors show in full swing.

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  6. #105
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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Yup. The price of oil has actually gone up since that stupendous announcement.

    It was just more of the same political theatre for the masses, like his directive to the FTC to investigate price gouging and his pleas to domestic and overseas oil producers to pump more. This Administration and the oil traders all know the true cause of our predicament, which is this Administration's insistence on keeping its boot on the necks of U.S. oil producers. But they can't very well admit their own ongoing culpability in causing higher prices in pursuit of their social agenda, so instead they keep the smoke and mirrors show in full swing.
    One thing for sure, higher prices will bring much more production from sources that are not subject to OPEC's production quotas.

    Z

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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by Zofia View Post
    One thing for sure, higher prices will bring much more production from sources that are not subject to OPEC's production quotas.

    Z
    Yes but the question is where and by how much? Most people don't realize this, but for a brief window in 2019 the U.S. became the top oil producing country in the world. This dramatically helped in keeping our energy costs down as domestic oil is cheaper than foreign oil due to, among other things, significant transportation costs. Shoot at one point we were a net exporter of oil because we were producing more than we could use here in the U.S.

    But now we are once again at the mercy of others and are paying a steep price for it. The Administration could fix this simply by revoking the executive orders regarding federal drilling leases and instructing the regulatory agencies to stand down with the new rules in the pipeline, but don't hold your breath as the climate activist wing of the party would lose its collective mind. So instead the absurd hypocrisy will continue, with the Administration keeping its boot on the neck of the U.S. oil industry while pointing its finger at anyone else who might be considered a remotely plausible culprit.

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  10. #107
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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Trying to just stay factual and avoid the politics as much as possible, you're right. We WERE energy independent for a couple of years. We WERE a net exporter of oil and natural gas. Prices at the pump WERE $1.50 per gallon lower than now.

    We have Biden nominee Ms. Omarova saying that she wants our oil companies to go bankrupt. As she nationalizes our entire banking system. I wonder what Jamie Dimon and other big donors to What's His Name's campaign are saying NOW ? Granholm gets the giggles whenever she's asked about anything to do with energy prices. Clearly there are those who want us to pay AT LEAST $5 a gallon for gas nationwide and not just in LaLa Land.

    Btw, What's His Name can thank You Know Who for filling the SPR to the brim while he was in charge. Remember ?

    I am sorry and wish I was wrong but this will get worse as we go into the heart of the heating season. I have a bet with a friend as to how many mainstream media news stories there will be highlighting the hardships of ordinary Americans as they struggle to keep their cars gassed AND homes heated AND food on the table. She thinks there will be a lot. I say that the media will downplay it as much as possible. The cut-off is Groundhog Day.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 11-24-2021 at 08:30 AM.
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    Teddy Roosevelt

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  12. #108
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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Yup. The price of oil has actually gone up since that stupendous announcement.

    It was just more of the same political theatre for the masses, like his directive to the FTC to investigate price gouging and his pleas to domestic and overseas oil producers to pump more. This Administration and the oil traders all know the true cause of our predicament, which is this Administration's insistence on keeping its boot on the necks of U.S. oil producers. But they can't very well admit their own ongoing culpability in causing higher prices in pursuit of their social agenda, so instead they keep the smoke and mirrors show in full swing.
    Let's just say there are "powers that be" that are doing everything they can to get us all into electric cars. Kicking and screaming if necessary.

    Just wait until we are forced to burn more coal to generate the juice to recharge all those cars.

    Btw why are U.S. contractors building more state of the art nuclear power plants in other countries than here ? Last time I checked we have a grand total of one (1) nuclear power plant under construction ( in Wyoming of all places ) while several existing plants are being phased out. As of April , 2021 we had shut down 39 plants in the U.S.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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  14. #109
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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Granholm was in rare form the other day. She does NOT know what our daily oil production is; what our daily consumption is nor how much we import.

    Nothing like having an Energy Secretary who doesn't know what she should know. No wonder she laughs every time she's asked about it.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Production is still DOWN about 2 million barrels per day. We went from being a net exporter back to being a net importer. Why else would "What's His Name " beg OPEC and Putin to produce more oil ?
    Sorry, but you have your facts wrong. Oil production is up by 1/2 million barrels a day.

    https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...s=WCRFPUS2&f=W TV in

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  17. #111
    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Sorry, but you have your facts wrong. Oil production is up by 1/2 million barrels a day.

    https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...s=WCRFPUS2&f=W TV in
    Did you read your own chart? We're talking about since pre-pandemic highs. Put your mouse pointer on that line and track the ball to the peak right before the pandemic. Given the higher prices and spiking demand, we should be producing even more oil now than we we pre-pandemic, not less. The fact that we squeezed out another 500k barrels per day recently does not mean that we aren't dramatically under-producing from where we could and should be.

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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Let's just say there are "powers that be" that are doing everything they can to get us all into electric cars. Kicking and screaming if necessary.
    Who are those "powers that be" ? Would some of them be auto company execs ? It seems to me that US auto companies are moving towards putting everyone in either SUV/Crossovers, Pickup Trucks, or electric sedans. Witness the discontinuance of several long time sedan lines. Almost like a bean counters wet dream- steer everyone towards either high unit profit SUV's, or cookie cutter electric cars. (less models, lower manufacturing costs.)
    I'm right 96% of the time. I don't sweat the other 5% .......................

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  21. #113
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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    I hardly consider GM's $100,000 electric Hummer "cookie cutter".

    Americans don't need to be dragged kicking and screaming into buying electric vehicles. They're willing to wait months to buy one. People who believe Americans have to be dragged kicking and screaming into buying electric vehicles, generally have a very poor understanding of them, and are basing their views on their capabilities from 10 years ago.

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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Yes but the question is where and by how much? Most people don't realize this, but for a brief window in 2019 the U.S. became the top oil producing country in the world. This dramatically helped in keeping our energy costs down as domestic oil is cheaper than foreign oil due to, among other things, significant transportation costs. Shoot at one point we were a net exporter of oil because we were producing more than we could use here in the U.S.
    As of January 2020, there were 700 oil rigs in production in the U.S. By June, 2020, that number fell to below 200. Remember, the price of crude went negative for a brief time in March and April of 2020. Then there was a brief oil price war between Saudi Arabia and Russia. The price rebounded, but oil rigs take time to go out of production and more time to resume production. By the end of Q2, 2021, we were back up to 445 rigs in production. As the price rises, rigs owned by bankrupt oil companies will find their way to solvent companies and go back into production. The same numbers are true in most of the non-OPEC world. Rising prices will bring about more production the world around. There is only a little that the U.S. government can do about it. They could streamline leasing on federal lands, they could re-open ANWAR. But, most of our short term production capability is from existing wells that are out of production at the moment.

    The Biden administration would do well to remember that energy independence is a good idea, and has been the stated policy goal of the U.S. for forty five years. Using the resources at hand will make it easier to build the so-called green energy future. However, there is a lot of money to be spent between now and then and the problem of energy density is a long way from being solved. So, we need to get back to producing U.S. oil and developing future sources of energy. Not throttling U.S. oil and gas production while daydreaming about windmills and solar panels.

    Z

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  24. #115
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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Sorry, but you have your facts wrong. Oil production is up by 1/2 million barrels a day.

    https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...s=WCRFPUS2&f=W TV in
    Up by 500,000 barrels compared to what ? Or better yet, compared to when ? In fairness this is not one of those times when I am forced to ask if you read your own link. The numbers can be a bit nebulous.

    From January to March 2020 in every week but one the U.S. produced 13 million barrels per day. Under Biden it has been averaging 11 million barrels. That is according to eia.gov.

    The one month rebound in production that you touted was almost entirely due to more Gulf rigs producing again after being shut down thanks to Hurricane Ida. In October we had 439 active rigs compared to 708 in 2019.

    According to the API ( American Petroleum Institute ) production was 11.4 million barrels per day for October 2021. In October 2020 it was 10.4 million barrels. At present IMPORTS are UP 1 million barrels per day and Exports are DOWN by 200,000 barrels per day.

    Daily consumption is back up to 18.2 million barrels per day. Remember we are going into peak Heating Season.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 11-29-2021 at 10:35 AM.
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    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    I hardly consider GM's $100,000 electric Hummer "cookie cutter".

    Americans don't need to be dragged kicking and screaming into buying electric vehicles. They're willing to wait months to buy one. People who believe Americans have to be dragged kicking and screaming into buying electric vehicles, generally have a very poor understanding of them, and are basing their views on their capabilities from 10 years ago.
    No . I for one am basing my decision NOT to buy a Tesla on the current state of the technology. I drive a lot including quite a bit of long distance driving. Usually I do not have the time to twiddle my thumbs for hours while my car recharges. With a home recharger my electric bill would go up by quite a bit. If the batteries in a Tesla are like other batteries they will run down faster in cold weather requiring frequent recharges.

    A good home recharger costs at least $600 PLUS $2000 to install PLUS every 3 to 4 miles of driving requires at least a kilowatt hour of electricity. I drive at least 300 miles in a week. So that's AT LEAST 100 kilowatt hours just to charge my car, PER WEEK ! 400 a month. That is roughly equal to the current average electrical usage of a typical residential customer. Commercial customers pay much higher rates. So I would be looking at doubling my monthly electric bill. At least ! Con Ed just finished shutting down Indian Point. So where are they going to get the additional juice to recharge all those cars ? For now, by burning oil and gas. At least until more wind and solar comes on line.

    Add in the hefty sticker price ( even with the rebate ) and legit safety concerns then I'd just rather not.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 11-29-2021 at 10:49 AM.
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    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Up by 500,000 barrels compared to what ? Or better yet, compared to when ? In fairness this is not one of those times when I am forced to ask if you read your own link. The numbers can be a bit nebulous.

    From January to March 2020 in every week but one the U.S. produced 13 million barrels per day. Under Biden it has been averaging 11 million barrels. That is according to eia.gov.

    The one month rebound in production that you touted was almost entirely due to more Gulf rigs producing again after being shut down thanks to Hurricane Ida. In October we had 439 active rigs compared to 708 in 2019.

    According to the API ( American Petroleum Institute ) production was 11.4 million barrels per day for October 2021. In October 2020 it was 10.4 million barrels. At present IMPORTS are UP 1 million barrels per day and Exports are DOWN by 200,000 barrels per day.

    Daily consumption is back up to 18.2 million barrels per day. Remember we are going into peak Heating Season.
    It's very simple. What was the date President Biden took office?

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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    No . I for one am basing my decision NOT to buy a Tesla on the current state of the technology. I drive a lot including quite a bit of long distance driving. Usually I do not have the time to twiddle my thumbs for hours while my car recharges. With a home recharger my electric bill would go up by quite a bit. If the batteries in a Tesla are like other batteries they will run down faster in cold weather requiring frequent recharges.

    A good home recharger costs at least $600 PLUS $2000 to install PLUS every 3 to 4 miles of driving requires at least a kilowatt hour of electricity. I drive at least 300 miles in a week. So that's AT LEAST 100 kilowatt hours just to charge my car, PER WEEK ! 400 a month. That is roughly equal to the current average electrical usage of a typical residential customer. Commercial customers pay much higher rates. So I would be looking at doubling my monthly electric bill. At least ! Con Ed just finished shutting down Indian Point. So where are they going to get the additional juice to recharge all those cars ? For now, by burning oil and gas. At least until more wind and solar comes on line.

    Add in the hefty sticker price ( even with the rebate ) and legit safety concerns then I'd just rather not.
    Your views of electrical cars are based on their capabilities from 10 years ago. If they weren't, you wouldn't think it takes hours to charge a Tesla. You would also know Teslas are the safest vehicles you could buy. Much safer than gas powered vehicles.

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  29. #119
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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Your views of electrical cars are based on their capabilities from 10 years ago. If they weren't, you wouldn't think it takes hours to charge a Tesla. You would also know Teslas are the safest vehicles you could buy. Much safer than gas powered vehicles.
    That depends who you ask. Most chargers DO take hours. Most of the solar powered public chargers are NOT high speed.
    You haven't said a word about the costs.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    It's very simple. What was the date President Biden took office?
    That was 2 million barrels LESS than under his predecessor. Zofia and I have explained where the 500,000 barrel bump came from.
    A
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    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    That was 2 million barrels LESS than under his predecessor. Zofia and I have explained where the 500,000 barrel bump came from.
    I'm sorry, but you're dishonestly comparing current oil production to oil production from Jan. 2020. President Biden took office in Jan. 2021. In January 2021, oil production was at 10.9 million barrels per day. This week it is at 11.6 million barrels per day. That means oil production increased 700,000 barrels per day since Biden became President.

    These are the facts:

    In Jan. 2020, oil production was at 13 million barrels per day.

    From Jan. 2020 to Jan. 2021 oil production declined from 13 million barrels per day to 10.9 million.

    This means that oil production declined by 2 million barrels per day under Donald Trump, and increased by 700,000 barrels per day under President Biden.

    I don't understand why you go to a forum for strippers and adult entertainers to argue about oil production.

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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    That depends who you ask. Most chargers DO take hours. Most of the solar powered public chargers are NOT high speed.
    You haven't said a word about the costs.
    I don't know what you pay for electricity, but according to Google, the average cost in NYC is 14.34 cents/kWh. The battery pack for the Tesla Model Y Long Range is 75 kWh, and has a range of 326 miles. That comes out to a cost of approximately $10.75 to fully charge a Model Y, for a range of 326 miles. The average gasoline powered vehicle gets approximately 25 mpg and would need approximately 13 gallons to travel 326 miles. According to Google, the avg price of gas in NYC is $3.56. That means it costs approximately $46.28 for a gas powered vehicle to travel 326 miles, compared to $10.75 for a Tesla Model Y Long Range. The Tesla Model Y clobbers gas powered vehicles when it comes to operating costs.

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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    I'm sorry, but you're dishonestly comparing current oil production to oil production from Jan. 2020. President Biden took office in Jan. 2021. In January 2021, oil production was at 10.9 million barrels per day. This week it is at 11.6 million barrels per day. That means oil production increased 700,000 barrels per day since Biden became President.

    These are the facts:

    In Jan. 2020, oil production was at 13 million barrels per day.

    From Jan. 2020 to Jan. 2021 oil production declined from 13 million barrels per day to 10.9 million.

    This means that oil production declined by 2 million barrels per day under Donald Trump, and increased by 700,000 barrels per day under President Biden.

    I don't understand why you go to a forum for strippers and adult entertainers to argue about oil production.
    You're here arguing too eagle. Just thought I'd point that out.

    But the points that some have been making here is that the domestic oil market is not acting normally given the current prices and demand. The reason that production cratered early in the pandemic is because oil demand and prices plummeted, but they have since roared back. Under normal historical conditions U.S. production would bounce back in response, but it hasn't, which is entirely a function of what is currently being done to our domestic oil industry. Last I checked, it wasn't Trump issuing those executive orders or championing the upcoming regulatory crackdowns.

    Unless of course you are really arguing is that U.S. producers don't want to make money. Is that you're contention, that they were tickled pink to pump out 13 million bpd when oil was trading at under $60 per barrel, but for some mysterious reason wouldn't do it when oil was recently trading at $75+ (and is still over $65 today)? If it isn't because of the boot currently on the industry's neck, I'd be interested to here what your competing theory is.

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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    You're here arguing too eagle. Just thought I'd point that out.

    But the points that some have been making here is that the domestic oil market is not acting normally given the current prices and demand. The reason that production cratered early in the pandemic is because oil demand and prices plummeted, but they have since roared back. Under normal historical conditions U.S. production would bounce back in response, but it hasn't, which is entirely a function of what is currently being done to our domestic oil industry. Last I checked, it wasn't Trump issuing those executive orders or championing the upcoming regulatory crackdowns.

    Unless of course you are really arguing is that U.S. producers don't want to make money. Is that you're contention, that they were tickled pink to pump out 13 million bpd when oil was trading at under $60 per barrel, but for some mysterious reason wouldn't do it when oil was recently trading at $75+ (and is still over $65 today)? If it isn't because of the boot currently on the industry's neck, I'd be interested to here what your competing theory is.
    I have asked him several times what the "Eagle Theory" is that accounts for the drop off in domestic oil production. All I get are what seems to be attempts to blame "You Know Who " for the current mess. He certainly has never responded to that query with anything on point.

    When backed into a corner by facts he doesn't like or can't explain away then he questions my right to opine on this forum. While he of course is free to pontificate and even get ( God Help Us ! ) political . I'm used to it. That's just how he is.

    As we have pointed out several times , oil production declined after March 2020 in response to radically reduced demand. I drive to my office. During the Covid shutdown ( from March 2020 to September 2020 ) the drop off in traffic on the roads was dramatic. I also went to the Jersey shore on most weekends. There was a dramatic drop off in traffic on the GSP. ( That's Garden State Parkway for the folks in Rio Linda lol ). My observations were confirmed by the reduction in miles driven and gasoline consumed according to the AAA and U.S. DOT.

    As you said, one would think that after most restrictions were lifted that domestic oil producers would ramp up production to take advantage of the increased price . For the most part , aside from a blip here and there , that has not happened. Certainly "What's His Name's" Executive Orders restraining and limiting production have not helped.

    An interesting sidenote. Our average daily consumption is approximately 18 million barrels per day. Our peak production was 13 million barrels. So how were we an exporter and "Energy Independent " ? First of all, some of our oil like Alaskan is sometimes cheaper to ship to Japan than to the continental U.S. And that's what happened. We imported some and exported some. However when you add in natural gas exports , mostly to Europe, we were a net exporter of oil AND gas. Thanks to the Dummy's approval of the Russian Nord Stream pipeline under the Baltic ( bypassing Poland, Belarus and Ukraine ) it is now cheaper for many European countries to buy Russian gas than import it from us. And be potential hostages to Putin while filling his coffers.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 12-02-2021 at 09:54 AM.
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    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: It's Going to be a LONG Cold Winter

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    I don't know what you pay for electricity, but according to Google, the average cost in NYC is 14.34 cents/kWh. The battery pack for the Tesla Model Y Long Range is 75 kWh, and has a range of 326 miles. That comes out to a cost of approximately $10.75 to fully charge a Model Y, for a range of 326 miles. The average gasoline powered vehicle gets approximately 25 mpg and would need approximately 13 gallons to travel 326 miles. According to Google, the avg price of gas in NYC is $3.56. That means it costs approximately $46.28 for a gas powered vehicle to travel 326 miles, compared to $10.75 for a Tesla Model Y Long Range. The Tesla Model Y clobbers gas powered vehicles when it comes to operating costs.
    And what about the high sticker price for a Tesla and the cost of a home charger ? And the time element for recharging ? Even a high speed charger can take over an hour compared to a few minutes at a gas pump.

    Since we do NOT and will not have enough solar, wind or nuclear generated electricity to use in all those chargers now or in the near future there is little to no environmental benefit from switching to electric cars. Worse yet, where are the batteries made ? In China. Who dominates the markets for cobalt and rare earth minerals needed for those batteries and other essential uses ? China. So from both a practical and geo-political standpoint the electric car creates as many problems as it solves. And for what ? To please a bunch of Chicken Littles and Nervous Nellies who have been claiming that Doomsday is around the corner for the last 50 years.
    That's right. Back in the late '60's and early '70's we were told that the Earth was going into another Ice Age AND that we would run out of oil and gas within 10 to 15 years. and that air pollution from our cars would make the air in our cities unbreathable. Did any of those things happen ? No. Why ? Because we innovated and adapted and developed new sources of fossil fuels and developed things like catalytic converters and cleaner gasolines to REDUCE air pollution. The U.S. output of greenhouse gases keeps going down every year. For the umpteenth time: The U.S. and Europe are NOT the problem. It is the 3rd World : primarily China, India , Indonesia , Pakistan , Brazil , Nigeria , Ethiopia and South Africa.
    They are NOT going to accept lower living standards just to please Western environmentalists. And they have ALL made that very clear.

    As for rising ocean levels the doomsayers seem to assume that people are just going to stand around with water over their ankles, then knees , waists , shoulders and then go "Glub Glub Glub " as it rises above their heads. The reality is that people will innovate , adapt and adjust as they have been doing since our ancestors lived in caves and trees . People will move further inland and/or develop flood control technology and methods as the Dutch have. Many Asian countries have been dealing with Typhoons and Monsoons for centuries. The death rate from floods goes down every year.

    If rising ocean levels were a genuine threat then Why hasn't What's His Name sold his place in Rehoboth Beach ? Or Obama his place on Martha's Vineyard ? Or hundreds of wealthy and super rich Greenies who have oceanfront homes up and down both coasts and in the Gulf ? Many of whom have knocked down old houses to put up new and bigger houses. And they did that just so they could get flooded out ?
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 12-02-2021 at 10:18 AM.
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    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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