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Thread: I Don't Know What Is Going On

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    Veteran Member anais's Avatar
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    Default I Don't Know What Is Going On

    This may be long and not very well organized, but I would like some input about how I should handle unpleasant changes in my club.

    I have worked at this club for over 3 years. I waitressed for about a year and have been dancing for over 2 years. Occasionally some of our rules have gotten more lax. For instance, when I started dancing, we were not allowed to spread our legs, even on the couches. But slowly, this has changed and it has not bothered me. I am comfortable spreading and when some girls started doing it, I did too.

    Some rules have remained pretty consistent though. Mainly, the customers cannot touch us and we are not allowed to grind. Within the last couple of months though, suddenly, there has been a surge of "against the rules" behavior going on and nothing is being done about it. So it has become clear that these things are acceptable, and I am not comfortable with it. But I can no longer say to the customers, "no, it is against the rules", when he can easily look around and see other girls letting customers touch or whatever.

    Also a couple of months ago, our VIP room prices changed. It used to be $100 to use the room and $50 of that went towards a bar tab. So you got $50 worth of drinks and you stayed up there until the $50 was used and then you could renew it or be done. (VIP is right by the couch dance area, open door, translucent curtains.) Now VIP price has gone up to $250 an hour. No drink tab. It has been used a lot less since then. I think there is also a correlation between increase on mileage on the couches and the increase in VIP price. I think that customers expect more in the VIP room now. And I think that things that were previously done in VIP by some dancers are now being done out in the open on the regular couches. Yet, no rules are being enforced.

    The type of things I am taking about- well, there is simply a lot of dancers letting customers touch their back, hips, legs, or kiss or lick them. Some dancers are letting customers touch breasts or between their legs. One dancer very openly lets customers lick her between her legs. Blatant grinding- whole song (or more) grind sessions. One dancer wears a flared short skirt while she does her couch dances and lets customers put their hands up under the skirt.

    When I first saw the oral sex going on, I wrote our owner a letter explaining that I was worried about being sexually assulted. If someone got a dance from the girl who allowed that and then I danced for him and he leaned forward and licked me when I was in a vulnerable position, I would feel assulted. He did not respond to me.

    Some of the girls complained to the housemom, so I did too. She wrote a memo saying that if customers touch you, you will be sent home. Within the hour, it was clear that it would not be enforced.

    So I don't really know what to do. I wrote my opinion about this on SCL, but now other dancers are calling me old and bitter. And saying that I dance dirty too. I have gotten a lot more intimate in my couch dances than I used to, but I still don't grind or let customers touch me.

    There are 2 other clubs here, but they are both higher mileage than mine. I may be old, but I'm not bitter (yet) and I'm not ready to quit yet. I love dancing. I just wish I had a safe environment to do it in like I used to. Any suggestions?

  2. #2
    alexislv
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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On

    Are you close enough to travel to another club? What area are you in?

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    Veteran Member blackbeauty's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On

    Find another club because you may not be able to change this alone. Some girls are not going to agree with you if more money is involved in these practices, if they value their job too much, or if their standards aren't as high as yours/they might enjoy doing this. Be careful and if it gets that bad, quit or sooner or later you might be forced to do these things b/c other girls are doing them leading to more dances for them and less for you.

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    Veteran Member Rayleen's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On

    Travel,Move or Quit. Those are really your only options unfortunately

    I am so sorry that your club has changed to the point where you feel have been or may be sexually assaulted. It is a trend that has been growing for sometime. I got wrapped up in the BS myself for awhile. The industry has been through a big change over the past decade up and down economically and more intense as well as society becomes more callous to traditional taboos.

    If moving or traveling is an option however,
    There are still a few clubs out there that are low contact and earnings are less but still ok (100-300) in my opinion.
    And the big fish clubs out there are almost all no contact except LV.
    And earnings in those clubs are still consistently $300+

    Try something new. You might end up pleasantly surprised!

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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On

    Speaking on behalf of the customers who share your point of view (and we seem to be in the minority, judging from the blue site), I agree with you that things are going downhill. I want things to go back to the way they used to be in terms of more limited contact, etc.

    Within the last 60 days I've had a dancer unzip my fly and attempt to take my penis in her hand, had one take my hand and place it against her exposed vagina, and have had several offers for various sex acts. That ain't why I came to the place!

    We go for the fantasy aspect only. It may be partially the economy and some customers' demands for more for the buck. It may be just a phenomenon of "she's doing it so I have to also to stay competitive." Whatever it is, it SUCKS!!!

    If the trend continues, I'm afraid we'll have to refrain from going to the clubs. That will be a damn shame since we really enjoy it when everyone stays within the rules. Nothing is quite so hot as when the private dance stays right on the line between staying within the boundaries and crossing over. (For us, anyway.)

    Just my opinion.

    As an afterthought, wouldn't it be great if a group of dancers could get together and buy their own club? Enforce the rules and boot out the hoes and johns if they showed up? That might be the ticket.

  6. #6
    alexislv
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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On

    There are still clubs in LV that guys dont touch (like mine). However all that I know of include grinding...some more than others. There will always be girls that break the rules but if it is as blatant as you are describing then there is nothing you can do. The guys will assume they can do anything that they see going on. You can either stay and put up with it and hope that vice doesnt start raiding your club or move on to another club

  7. #7
    alexislv
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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On

    A tip for you cupl...when you are going to get a dance ask the girl what the rules are and see what her reaction is...you will be able to weed out the dirty girls cuz when a guy ask me that question I tell them they are not supposed to touch me...to sit back and enjoy the ride

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    Veteran Member livenudegirlsunite's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On

    I am sorry to hear about your loss of a safe working environment. I don't think that there are many safe club environments left. I have only been dancing for a little over a year now, so I got started right in the middle of the super bad economy. Dancers can not expect to make as much as they used to. There are way too many truely financially desparate people out there. Mandatory flat house fees and tipouts have not been updated to reflect the economic realities of today.
    I have heard so many dancers at my work complain about girls doing extras; as in making out with the customers, blow jobs, allowing customers to bang them etc.. The managers are not likely to do anything about it because they make their money soley off of our earnings. If dancers are engaging in acts of sexual penetration, and are able to give management, DJ's and Housemoms a significant amount of money, of course they aren't going to fire them. It's all a matter of don't bite the hand that feeds you.
    The only way to fight it would be to sue the club owners who don't pay their employees a salary. It creates a very hostile work environment where anything goes. Trying to write letters to the departement of labor, police deparments or city council members doesn't do any good because they are generally on the take themselves. If you try to sue then you will obiviously be fired. Trying to convince a large group of dancers to stick up for themselves and protest is also pretty much impossible. We all need to make money to survive.
    Most club owners are not nice guys. They are basically criminals who have lots of power and money. There is very little that dancers can do to fight this.
    I personally am not offended by grinding or straddling; but I am offended by guys who try to grope my breasts and guys who try to stick their hands down my pants. That is completely unacceptable. Obviously I also view any sexual penetration of any kind as being completely unacceptable.
    I just can't wait for evil George to be voted the hell out of office.
    Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. - M Rivero

  9. #9
    alexislv
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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On

    Right on live...i agree with you

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On

    This is the way alot of clubs are going. In the current economy, it is harder than ever to convince most guys to spend much money (if any at all) on a standard low-mileage lapdance. Alot of clubs are allowing alot more to go on than they used to, simply because that is the only way they can continue to bring in the $$ spending customers. Most clubs cannot afford to retain tight contact controls these days, because once one starts relaxing the rules, customers flock there, and in order to compete all the clubs in the area have to do the same, or offer something better, which gets increasingly harder to do. I do believe it's the clubowners and managers who are ruining the business - if they would maintain better controls, it would never get so out of hand with customers expecting so MUCH for the price of a dance. Of course you will likely be able to accomplish very little if anything in the way of getting your club's current standards reverted back to something similar to previously enforced rules.

    In the situation you describe, there is really only one thing you can do, and that is look for a new club if you want to continue dancing and be profitable. It may be hard to find a decent club to work in your area that offers decent $$ potential and contact levels you're comfortable with, but there are ways to deal with it. Example: in my club, alot of new girls have been coming in offering way more mileage than I and most of the 'older' girls offer. However, those girls are also less attractive, less experienced, and not as good at the game as some of us others who are still around. Also, the club setup allows all of us to compete on a more even level, mileage or no, because customers can't just look around the room and watch dances on the main floor to see who does the most dirty deeds. ALL dances are done in a separate area upstairs off the main floor. This way, customers are more inclined to choose dancers based on appearance, stage performance, personality, etc, rather than just nasty factor. I am still a top earner here, despite the fact that alot of new girls have been coming in offering way more than I do. Guys buy from me based on what they like about me downstairs, and so by the time I get them upstairs it is easier to please them without all the extra. I still have alot of repeat customers, even though they know they may get more 'nasty' from other girls. This is just another type of club you can work in, if you can't find one that really enforces the rules.

    Of course if you can travel, you can always do that as well. Where are you located? Maybe some girls here know of some clubs you could go to that may be better for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On

    I just can't wait for evil George to be voted the hell out of office.
    Damn right! That f*ckstick has done more damage to this country all around in this term than will get repaired in the next century.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On

    Thanks, Alexis, but we already to that. It seems the rules change after we leave the table and hit the dance area.

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    God/dess Malibu's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On

    I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN!! A certain club in England (which I will leave unmentionable) had this kind of sh*t going on. I saw girls stand up on the couches in VIP so that the men could give them oral sex! NASTY!!! A LOT of tit-touching and pussy-rubbing went on there too and what got me was that this was supposed to be the most 'reputable' club in that city. Thank goodness it was not a club in my home town. I didn't bother complaining, it was obvious it had been going on for a while and that the management knew about it but planned not to act. Amazing how money can affect one's priorities.

    I agree with the others, move to a more respectable club. Even if you do not take part in the trash, you will be classed as a dancer that does due to the rep of the club. Also, you're earnings may take a dive if you stay there and another thing (I'm not saying it is true) but many girls who would never turn to those things do when in the environment all the time to keep up with the competition!

    I say get out before it affects you!!!
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    Veteran Member anais's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On

    Thanks for the quick responses!

    cupl4strippers wrote
    Nothing is quite so hot as when the private dance stays right on the line between staying within the boundaries and crossing over.
    That is where I usually am. I think a lot of girls think I am hypocritical because I do get a little riskee (sp) sometimes. But the distiction to me, is I am still abiding by the rules. This has made me question a lot of my behavior, trying to figure out what I am comfortable with and why. A couple of things I do that other dancers at my club may think are "dirty" are putting my face on the guys pants and breathing out a long hot breath. Or I will straddle his lap and press againgst him once, but do not do the repetitive grinding thing.

    I guess the grinding and non-sexual touching are not what bathers me so much. If the club said "Here are the new rules- you can grind and let customers touch non sexual areas, I'd be fine about that. But there is something about breaking the rules, even if they're not enforced, that scares me. (Also, I think in our case, the rules are alligned with the law.) And the fact that most customers know that there were rules and now they're being broken, I think leads them to believe they can break them any way they want.

    I can't move or travel.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On

    Several issues come to mind ...

    #1 - you're right that once customers discover that "Pandora's Box" has been opened in regard to contact and "extras" (figuratively speaking - of course some of these sleaze clubs probably have an actual dancer named Pandora LOL), it's virtually impossible for clubs to re-institute tighter rules without losing so many customers that the club risks going under. Clubs are therefore not going to get any "cleaner" if/when the economy improves ... UNLESS new local ordinances and club busts force them to, which will also cause clubs to lose many customers.

    #2 - in this environment, unless a dancer has an absolutely stellar appearance which is far beyond the majority of dancers in the club, she is going to have great difficulty trying to sell "clean" dances when other girls are offering extreme contact and "extras".

    #3 - in this environment, once clubowners discover that "dirty" dancers draw in more customers and sell more private dances (which generates income for the club), they are not likely to listen to the complaints of "clean" dancers. On the contrary, clubowners are more likely to start looking for ways to convince "clean" dancers to quit so they can be replaced with "dirty" dancers who will increase club income even further.

    #4 - in this environment, clubowners usually do NOT face a risk of being busted themselves since they are not the ones actually breaking local ordinances or state prostitution laws. Clubowners also are in a position where they can plead ignorance of the extreme contact and "extras" to the cops and courts even though they may actually be fully aware of what's going on. This usually leads to a situation where the official club rules are within the law, but the normal and expected day to day activities in the private dance room are not.

    #5 - in this environment, if word of the extreme contact and "extras" finally attracts enough attention from local cops and politicians that a club bust is ordered, odds are that ALL dancers in the club face an equal risk of being busted for violating the ordinance or of breaking prostitution laws. In this situation it is virtually impossible for a "clean" dancer to prove her innocence to a jury of housewives, retirees and civil servants when the whole case boils down to the word of a "well respected cop" against the word of a dancer (even if the cop is lying his ass off), resulting in a high probability that she'll be convicted as well. A misdemeanor prostitution charge on your record can affect your straight job prospects for the remainder of your life.

    This sort of environment leads to a nasty dilemma in cases where girls must decide whether to continue working as a "clean" dancer earning peanuts, to start doing high contact and "extras" to restore their income level, or to give up dancing in that city. However, even for girls who are able to relocate, there are fewer and fewer remaining cities where this problem isn't already an issue.

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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On--Homer Simpson M

    D-Oh!

    I just got back from the grocery store and had an idea while driving. (Get ready, I'm about to embarrass myself. My ideas are usually pretty lame.)

    Maybe we (as customers) need to be a tad more assertive and not ask the dancer about her rules, but tell her ours. Here's what I'm talking about: Say something such as, "I really tip well for a good, hot dance but I'm not going to actually lick or suck anything and I don't want you handling my crotch with your fingers."

    After the dance, if needed, we could suggest going back to the table and talk about what we liked or didn't like. I tend to think that if the dollars are flowing the girls will listen...Am I off base here?

    Anais: I love the hot breath thing. Especially when accompanied by a low-pitched growl. Wife likes it too.

    Melonie: You are 100 percent correct about the fact that things aren't going to tone down after the economy picks back up. Once a boundary is broken it tends to stay broken unless something cataclysmic happens--such as a massive police action. That doesn't help anyone.

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    God/dess Lena's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On


    Well, you know what they say. Every class act needs a whore and every whorehouse needs a lady. So be the lady. Straight up tell your customers that you don't like the new happenings, that you are a performer, not a hooker. Sell yourself as the one and only real lady in the place.

    Lena



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    Featured Member Lilith's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On

    Been there, done that. I highly recommend that you take Lena's advice. Everyone (and I do mean everyone) told me when I started dancing that I wouldn't make money if I didn't take off my top. I went on to become one of the club's top earners- without going topless This, by the way, is in a club with a terrible reputation for extras.

    When I left that club for a better one, my old co-workers assured themselves that I would be back. After all, I don't take my top off so surely I wouldn't make any money at the best club in town. Wrong again. My lack of nudity sticks out like a sore thumb in both clubs, but I consistently make excellent money. The key is to be the consummate businesswoman. Go the extra mile to give them value for their dollar. Be a great conversationalist. Work that crowd like you've never done before. With luck, you'll find, as I have, that men will choose to spend money on you- enough so that you can ignore the wants of other men.

    You have my empathy. I can always get a boob job, but your situation is quite a bit trickier.
    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Veteran Member livenudegirlsunite's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On

    Couple4strippers -- I wish that more customers were like you.
    Lena -- I think it's a good idea to say- I'm a professional lap dancer/performer not a hooker. I will try that line next time I go into work.
    I wish that strippers would try to stick together more. I don't think that it would be out of line to gang up on and humiliate the hookers. I know that sounds like such a terrible thing to say but I can't think of any other way. The only scary thing about that mentality would be that some dancers might take it to the extreme and start ganging up on and humiliating the so called "dirty dancers". I personally don't think that there is such a thing as a "dirty dance". It's the hookers that are engaging in acts of sexual penetration that are making it truely tough to be a dancer.
    Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. - M Rivero

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    Veteran Member anais's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On

    Thanks for the pep talks. I'm going to stick it out here. It would be easier to take the high road if I was a 10 like a couple of our girls, but I am a pretty good conversationalist and do seem to attract people from across the room with my unique feature (glasses that guys love for some reason).

    Cupl4strippers- I love your sentiment, but think you are wa in the minority. (Hopefully I'm wrong.) I think stating YOUR expectations and boundaries are a good idea. It probably doesn't work to just ask the rules because most guys ask that wondering what kind of mileage they will get. The dancer thinks you want more because you asked. But if she's one of the girls that "dance" that way, she won't say to your face, "well, I 'm going to unzip your pants and pull out your penis" in case your a cop. She'll just do it assuming that's what you want since you asked what most guys ask when they want extras. So, being assertive on what you DO and DON'T want might help.


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    God/dess Malibu's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On

    Been there, done that. I highly recommend that you take Lena's advice. Everyone (and I do mean everyone) told me when I started dancing that I wouldn't make money if I didn't take off my top. I went on to become one of the club's top earners- without going topless This, by the way, is in a club with a terrible reputation for extras.

    When I left that club for a better one, my old co-workers assured themselves that I would be back. After all, I don't take my top off so surely I wouldn't make any money at the best club in town. Wrong again. My lack of nudity sticks out like a sore thumb in both clubs, but I consistently make excellent money. The key is to be the consummate businesswoman. Go the extra mile to give them value for their dollar. Be a great conversationalist. Work that crowd like you've never done before. With luck, you'll find, as I have, that men will choose to spend money on you- enough so that you can ignore the wants of other men.

    You have my empathy. I can always get a boob job, but your situation is quite a bit trickier.
    I don't understand - do you mean that you
    a) don't give topless dances in a full nude club that offers topless AND nude or
    b) do you just refuse to go topless and take off your thong in a nude club or
    c) do you just plain refuse to get naked?

    I've never heard of the last two ever happening so I'm dead curious.
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    Featured Member Lilith's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Don't Know What Is Going On

    First club was strictly bikini bar, but everyone violates rules right and left regardless. I kept the full (thong) bikini on at all times, no matter what all the other girls did.

    My current club is a topless club. I don't go topless. Bra (or bikini top) and thong stay in place at all times. No nudity.
    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

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