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Thread: Stripper getting old but still broke

  1. #26
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stripper getting old but still broke

    Melonie,in this bear market,you would need around 500,000 in investments,to get the kind of returns you are talking about and upwards of 1 million,I dont know too many dancers retiring with that amount,most of the girls I know that moved on had around 100-150000 in savings when they quit,most owned homes as well,but 150,000 isnt going to get you much of a return nowadays,maybe 5 years ago.
    Well, just for a few examples to disprove your point, you might look at the dividend rates on natural gas stocks NGT (8.88% today) and SJT (9.36% today), or the price of gold (up 14% so far this year). Your point is only true if you are putting your money into CD's or a Money Market Fund or some other institutional investment with a 2% return and allowing someone else to earn a big profit on your money while paying you next to nothing. It's entirely possible to achieve much better rates of return if you're willing to do a little homework.

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    Default Re: Stripper getting old but still broke

    Sure melonie,but to retire and live off the dividends of a 9% return,sure if you have 200-300,000 invested and on that you will make around 10-18,000 a year ,hardly enough money to live off of,but to get the kinds of returns you were talking about in your last post of 40-50,000 a year you would still need around 500,000 saved,like I said I dont know too many strippers who have that amount of liquid cash saved apon retirement.

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Stripper getting old but still broke

    I am sorry I meant 18,-28,000,still hardly enough to live of off,without extra income as well.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Stripper getting old but still broke

    Michele,

    One thing that all have overlooked is the NASDAQ. It was at 5000 a couple of years ago. It is by no means a bull market right now. I lost 7 figures in the NASDAQ with the tech stock plunge, thanks to the good old SEC rules that I did not break like some of these people under indictment now. Being an insider sucks.

    Anyway, that is where a lot of investors took a beating. Money is now being poured into the DOW and S&P. The NASDAQ is inching up, but I will be real surprised if it hits 5000 again.

  5. #30
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stripper getting old but still broke

    I can see that this is going to be difficult. If you'll reread my original post, I stated that this "nest egg" was based on 10 years worth of savings. Even if a girl were only able to save $200 per week or $10,000 per year, after 10 years she should have the original 10*$10k plus all of the reinvested dividends, interest and capital gains that her investments have earned for those 10 years - yielding a nest egg in the $200k ballpark. Once she begins to "consume" the dividends, interest and capital gains, her nest egg stops growing but she'll be able to count on $15k in annual supplemental income. Of course a disciplined dancer who was able to save/invest $500 per week or $25k per year would have 2 1/2 times as large of a nest egg after 10 years, and a $40k-$50k annual supplemental income from that nest egg. Saving $500 a week should not be an unrealistic goal for dancers who are averaging $600-$800 or more per night as you have repeatedly posted about your own earnings.

    If you reread my original post, I never said that this $10k a year level of savings and investment would be enough to retire altogether on after only 10 years! What I did say is that the supplemental income can open the doors to other post-dancing options which someone without assets/collateral and depending only on week to week paychecks to pay her bills could not take advantage of. Here I'm talking about being able to take a $35k a year job because she enjoys it and still live a $50k a year lifestyle, or borrowing against her nest egg to start a business, or many other possibilities.

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Stripper getting old but still broke

    I do understand what you are saying,but most realisticly,most dancers dont do this,most probably dont start saving money in the first or even fifth year,Iam speaking of the average dancer,so they would not have this money saved,I would say in my experience over 10 years maybe 25% of the girls I know save enough to have a good return on investments,what you are saying would be true if the average dancer put money away on a yearly basis like that,but what I was saying is most dont,I dont know too many girls that have 200,000 by the time they retired,you probably dont know many either.

  7. #32
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stripper getting old but still broke

    You're right! 90% of house dancers that I have ever met worry about paying the bills first, then buying a nice car, then buying a house, then buying "luxuries". Very few have much set aside in the way of savings or investments (with much meaning $100k+). Usually the only girls who have a serious savings and investment plan are girls who are making a LOT of money to the point where tax_preparation / investments / financial planning is forced upon them to avoid being "raped" by the IRS.

    It's really a shame that more girls don't put some effort into learning how to manage their own taxes / investments better. I see girls all the time who will make a huge effort to earn an extra $100 a night at a club, but who don't realize that by handling their taxes and investments better they could have saved or earned the same $100 with a lot less effort!

  8. #33
    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stripper getting old but still broke

    There are several important considerations involved here. A stock can go from whatever you paid for it to zero. A group of stocks can go to zero (say Enron+Global crossing+...). The market only goes to zero if the economy completely folds up to a little ball everywhere for all time.

    Any investment needs to be diversified across companies, and across industries. So one bad choice does not sink the battleship. You tell the broker what risk you are willing to take or pick a fund which earned some return in the past. If it earned a vastly better return than the market, it did it by being in the right place at the right time by hitting what was hot. Hot last year is not hot this year, and in fact is more arithmetically likely to be cold this year than hot again. A little better than the market, say 5-7 percentage points better than the market, may just be good management or shrewd choices. Twice the market's 25% gains in 1999 requires taking a real high risk, that it will go down twice as much as the market. or 3 times as much.
    If your goal is to build a portfolio for 10 years from now, do not put it all in a high risk win-or-go-broke portfolio, or the odds are good you will go broke. "Bulls and bears make money but pigs get slaughtered." is an old saying.
    Also comparing a balance sheet today to its all time high is like comparing the money you made today to your best day ever. There are times when you are almost guaranteed to be sorely disappointed. On an investment compare the thing today to what you put in. Like a gambler, if you start with $10 and raise it too $1000, then lose 80%, you are still better off than you started out by $190. A broad mix of investments will not lose money over a 4-5 year horizon and will on average make an average return of 7-10%, sometimes more sometimes less. Money all sunk into the market at one point at the absolute worst time will only possibly lose money if it is too concentrated and the bad pieces are big enough to swamp the good pieces.
    The NASDAQ is not the market, never was and never will be. It is a group of companies very heavily consisting of high tech companies, just like the AMEX in the 1970's was heavily composed of small oil companies.

    Make sure your broker knows what your plans are. The right choices for a 30 yo professional athlete's portfolio and a 30 yo dentist's portfolio are different as night and day. Because the dentist has an opportunity to recover from mistakes and make up for it later, the athlete's earning profile may be zero tomorrow if he slips and falls down.

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  10. #34
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    Default Re: Stripper getting old but still broke

    Montythegeek,I oppened an account with merrill lynch in 1993,it was very diversified,I had several low risk mutual funds,stocks in two seperate companies,bonds,global allocations,then over the years I sold and bought two other mutual funds and bought more stock in mci,since I bought it at 15 and it rose to 40,eventually it went up to ,I think 80 was its all time high,my goal was to keep the money invested and not touch it,but even with such a diversified potfolio,I still lost way more than 40%of my portfolios worth,most everbody with at least 50,000 in in vestments lost a lot,alot of people at the company my mother works at lost like half of there profit sharing,I hope to start putting the money back that I took out of my investments,merrill lynch has it in a money market right now for me,after loosing that much money,Iam scared to start again,but I cant take the barely 2% return.

  11. #35
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    Default Re: Stripper getting old but still broke

    Yeah melonie,your post is right on the money.

  12. #36
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stripper getting old but still broke

    There are several important considerations involved here. A stock can go from whatever you paid for it to zero. A group of stocks can go to zero (say Enron+Global crossing+...).

    Any investment needs to be diversified across companies, and across industries. So one bad choice does not sink the battleship. You tell the broker what risk you are willing to take or pick a fund which earned some return in the past. If it earned a vastly better return than the market, it did it by being in the right place at the right time by hitting what was hot.

    Make sure your broker knows what your plans are. The right choices for a 30 yo professional athlete's portfolio and a 30 yo dentist's portfolio are different as night and day. Because the dentist has an opportunity to recover from mistakes and make up for it later, the athlete's earning profile may be zero tomorrow if he slips and falls down.
    Again, there is some truth in what you say. However, and this is a very important point which is often overlooked, there ARE mechanisms which allow any prudent investor to minimize the downside potential. One of the most effective tools I use is a "stop loss" order - which is a standing order to my stockbroker to SELL any of my stocks if they drop 20% below the price I bought them at (with periodically readjusted trigger prices for stocks I plan on holding long term). Investors with "stop loss" orders in place during the "crash of 2000" got out with very nice profits - however investors who didn't have them saw tieh value of the same stocks drop drastically after the brokers' computerized selling programs started kicking in.

    IMHO diversification is no substitute for diligence. By investing in "cold" segments as well as "hot" ones, all you do is limit your upside gains. In today's global economy, for TRUE diversification you need to get involved in foreign stocks, foreign currencies etc. And of course the greatest hedge against catastrophe in the markets is owning gold!

    I agree completely about a 30 year old athlete's investment strategy being very applicable to dancers. Like athletes, dancers can't afford NOT to earn a high return on their investments to build a nest egg within a 10 year period, versus your dentist who is assured of a steady high income for decades. A guaranteed way NOT to do this effectively is for an athlete or dancer to invest everything in a stodgy balanced risk mutual fund or CD's or a money market account which pays 2-3% at best. While a certain amount should remain in these stable but low earning investments (like 6 months worth of earnings), the balance of the nest egg should be put to work in more speculative investments which offer 8% or 15% or maybe even 30% returns if you choose wisely or with a lot of luck!

  13. #37
    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stripper getting old but still broke

    Many of Melonie's points actually amplify what I was trying to say.

    Her points about diligence and stop-loss orders affect the diversification of a portfolio. Say you start out with 20 things each being 5% and 2 do really great for a couple of years--say 4 times as well as the others. (something like Michele's $15 to 80 MCI example) The portfolio is no longer 20 things at 5% each of the total, but the 2 that did great now make up nearly a quarter of the total. Portfolios need to re balanced every 6-9 months so they not just were diversified but stay diversified.

    I am by no means advocating putting your money all in CD's and forgetting about it, or all of your money in any investment, or running away from risk. But taking some of the money off the table and putting it in a safer place with less risk when something goes great is sound policy.

    Look at the historical record -- you will find in the mid and late 1990's Bill Gates was periodically selling Microsoft stock. He still owned a lot of it, and it was still a good investment. BUT--he got to a position that if MSFT went to zero he would still be a very rich man on everything else. Sure if he hadn't sold some of that MSFT he might be richer, but he can sleep nights. Company 401K of most people have way too much stock in the company they work for, especially if they also get options. Even if you work for a GREAT company, it is always possible an even greater company can come along and eat their lunch.

    People can and should take risk. Just balance that risk over a number of different vehicles. The less attention you want to pay to it on a day-to-day basis they GREATER the number of things you want to be in. With ZERO information on Melonie's portfolio or life, I would bet a lap dance she has no more than 10% of her financial assets in one place outside the US, one industry, or one company---and she monitors it daily and has things in place to minimize losses. If you are not on top of it everyday that % should be less than 5%.

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  15. #38
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    Default Re: Stripper getting old but still broke

    Zofia,
    It is pointless to waste time attempting to dispute what the all-knowing Michele states. It is clear she now has established credentials in financial investments since she previously (in this thread) asserted:
    And obviously I know something about investing,I have a nice size portfolio.
    A..hhemm...Interesting. Didn't Michele also state she lost $80,000? And she purports to know something about investing? Ah...but then maybe her father is in real estate which, by magical transference, makes him and his daughter experts on investments--similar to her being an "expert" on STDs because her mom is/was a surgical nurse! (See her "expert" and "factual" statements in the thread:
    http://www.stripperweb.com/cgi-bin/y...0&showall=true )

  16. #39
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stripper getting old but still broke

    Look at the historical record -- you will find in the mid and late 1990's Bill Gates was periodically selling Microsoft stock. He still owned a lot of it, and it was still a good investment. BUT--he got to a position that if MSFT went to zero he would still be a very rich man on everything else. Sure if he hadn't sold some of that MSFT he might be richer, but he can sleep nights.
    Actually, Bill Gates currently has millions invested in SILVER !

    People can and should take risk. Just balance that risk over a number of different vehicles. The less attention you want to pay to it on a day-to-day basis they GREATER the number of things you want to be in. With ZERO information on Melonie's portfolio or life, I would bet a lap dance she has no more than 10% of her financial assets in one place outside the US, one industry, or one company---and she monitors it daily and has things in place to mnimize losses. If you are not on top of it everyday that % should be less than 5%.
    Wrong answer - My portfolio is currently something like this ...
    40% Hong Kong H shares of Chinese companies
    10% offshore oil company (PetroKazakhstan)
    15% domestic natural gas companies
    15% gold/silver mining companies (I trade these frequently as the market fluctuates)
    10% gold bars
    10% Euros in Swiss money market account

    Most of my investments at the moment are not US$ based, because the US$ has been dropping relative to most other currencies. However, I have to watch this like a hawk, and will bail on the foreign stuff in a New York minute if the dollar breaks its downtrend. But you are correct that no single stock or investment, foreign or domestic, exceeds 10% of my total portfolio.

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    Default Re: Stripper getting old but still broke

    I think if you've saved up enough money, you should day trade. That could make sooo much money in a day if you know what your doing. It's really important for dancers to become financially savvy. Read "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" it gave me a whole bunch of great ideas.
    I read this book. the author really doesn't not advise his readers to invest in the stock market, and certainly not short-term investments or any sort. He does advocate diversity in your investments, but his main focus is building wealth though buying and managing real estate.

  18. #41
    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stripper getting old but still broke


    snip
    However, I have to watch this like a hawk, and will bail on the foreign stuff in a New York minute if the dollar breaks its downtrend. But you are correct that no single stock or investment, foreign or domestic, exceeds 10% of my total portfolio.
    This is a key ingredient of safe investing. The higher the risk the portfolio is the more actively it needs to be monitored. And Melonie has stop loss orders on things to get her out with an acceptable downside risk vs the upside reward.

    You can take higher risk and make money, but take ALL the steps to protect from a major surprise. It requires ALL the efforts Melonie is putting into it plus the safeguards she uses to pull it off. The degree of effort she puts into it distinguishes Melonie's style of investing from what can safely be done by most people with the time and effort they want to put into it. It CAN be done by almost anyone, but do it the right way (like Melonie appears to be doing). People can and do make money day trading, but you have to put the effort in to it.

    Mel, for informational purposes only, how many hours a week do you put into managing your portfolio? Including the side time like reading the business section and searching the web more intensely for ideas.

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  20. #42
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    Default Re: Stripper getting old but still broke

    See my problem was ,at the time of my great losses,I was travelling so much I didnt pay attention to the market,I was working until 5 am in chicago and slept when I was not working,but you would think my broker would have called and said ,ok these things are on the down side lets do this or that and he didnt,what are your thoughts on suing these firms for loses,I have recieved some offers about class action suits against merrill lynch?

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    Default Re: Stripper getting old but still broke

    I think everyone has valid points and I guess the lessen to be learned is that we all, when investing, have to make an effort to understand exactly what we are investing in. Yes we may have Brokers, portfolio managers etc... but they may catch everything or explain things in plain English... Different investing instruments suit a person in different income brackets and age groups... Understanding your goals and the different types of investments, options,401k, stocks, FX etc... you are in may prompt you to ask some good questions to those that should be doing the jobs for you...

  22. #44
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stripper getting old but still broke

    Mel, for informational purposes only, how many hours a week do you put into managing your portfolio? Including the side time like reading the business section and searching the web more intensely for ideas.
    I'd take a wild guess at something around 1/2 hour of checking market performance and financial news each and every day, plus perhaps 2-3 hours over the weekend doing research. Also, I do not day trade (defined as buying and selling the same stock during the same day). This requires a full time effort plus 'live' market info from multiple markets plus a whole lot more experience and 'balls' than I have! Actually I only typically trade one or two investments per month. But I do "market time" - if wild swings are happening on the markets I'll watch the ticker plus call my broker and wait for exactly the best moment during the day to make the trade(s), which is usually good for an extra 1-2% compared to simply placing the trade order and having it executed at whatever time the broker gets around to it.

    In regard to participating in lawsuits against brokerage houses, the ONLY legal grounds for these suits are cases where the same brokerage house you were using for your securities account was involved directly in some way with particular companies whose stocks the brokers were recommending and which the investor bought based on faulty info. This involves things like IPO's, biased stock reviews, bond issues etc. - the legal point being that the brokerage house was deliberately painting an inaccurate rosy picture of the company's true financial situation in exchange for receiving IPO and bond fees. It's possible that some of the stocks you owned fell into this category.

    But with securities brokers, there was and is no legal obligation for the broker to make any sort of recommendations to holders of securities accounts. This would be different if the account had actually been run by a Financial Advisor with authority to trade at will on the investors' behalf, who would then have fiduciary obligations to maximize profits and minimize losses. However, these sorts of accounts are limited to 'qualified investors' (i.e. $1 million+). People who lost money in regular securities accounts simply because they did not choose to sell their stocks quickly after the market trend turned downward don't have a legal leg to stand on.

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