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Thread: Comparing physical facts on clubs

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    Default Comparing physical facts on clubs

    Thought I would start a comparison of mostly factual matters as they relate to each other on how customers might view and compare clubs.

    I'll start by throwing out contact. While I like physical contact, the clubs in Illinois have very low contact due to the political atmosphere they operate under.
    The rules are all over the board, and too variable by area of the country. Also as extras are illegal, and also all over the board, I'm throwing that category out also.

    I'm easy to please and here is my list of "basics" which I would like to see in any club, because here in northern Illinois we seem to have trouble getting the basics right
    from our local clubs. A comment. The Chicago clubs
    seem to model themselves somewhat on the New York City strip club model or the New England model.

    In general I find this "model" unfriendly toward the
    customer and will go to the south, southwest, west or midwest instead.

    Club attributes or basics that each club should have
    1. Full nude dancing either table or stage. Pasties don't cut it.
    2. Along with full nude dancing they should have a full
    bar service. My first rule when traveling is, "no drinks in club don't go."
    3. Friendly staff and doormen. While doormen double as bouncers, they are the first face the customer sees.
    A surly doorman wearing a black suit, with a bulge under his arm and a domineering attitude is an immediate reject for me. I ve been known to walk out the door when I see "Vito the enforcer" as the first
    person I see in a club. (In some areas Vito needs to be there, just not as the up front PR person making the decisions on seating.)
    4. Related to the above. I can walk in and choose where to sit. Once there I can move around a bit. I refuse to be relegated to the slot the doorman puts me in. I f advised by the doorman "You've moved" I will immediately turn around and leave the club.
    THIS MIGHT BE ANOTHER WAY OF SAYING GOOD MANAGEMENT IS NEEDED IN A CLUB ALONG WITH CUSTOMER FRIENDLY POLICIES AND ATTITUDES.
    5. Adequate free surface parking with the option of not using the valet. I have the midwest and south
    aversion to using valet parking. Don't like
    surly guys with bad attitudes driving my car ether.
    In an urban environment I know parking is tight and you probably have to use valet. I'd prefer to go to a club not in a downtown area. (Personal preference and not relevant to this discussion I agree)
    6. Safe area for both my car and me. This is an
    "override" for me. A scuzzy area means I will use the valet parking. However I question why I am attending a club in a scuzzy area and if I shouldn't go somewhere else. The club has to be very good for me to want to continue if in a scuzzy area.
    7. Public intimidation of a customer by DJ, waitress, dancer or doorman. This has never happened to me.
    The first time it ever does I will get up and leave.
    Should "Vito" do this to me he is making the mistake and
    wrong judgement of his life. I will tend to depart
    expeditiously. At this point "Vito" had better be polite as I am old fashioned and not from the east.
    8. "Hustle factor" I know the dancers have to hustle.
    If they are intelligent, and can speak on something other than current fad passing rock bands, this is great.
    There are the correct wasy to hustle and the "hard sell"
    wrong ways. (See hustle sub heading this board.)
    9. Bar "safe area". This is a neutral place near the main bar that many clubs have, where the hustle is limited
    and is generally "off limits" to strong hustle.
    Just because a dancer and I have not hit it off, doesn't mean I want to leave. However if she is into strong hustle, I might have to retreat briefly to gather more intel. This is the most direct and safe way of getting rid of a hard sell dancer who has over stepped her bounds.
    10. Clean bathrooms. Please don't start the attendant until 8 p.m.???

    A nice option is a restaurant. I will sometimes buy the dancer dinner or buy a snack if we are in VIP should
    food service be available.

    I think that these are factual items not as subject to
    subjective judgements. What do you guys look for in a club, either to dance there or as a customer?










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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    some of these things (like #1 and #2) aren't really up negotiation. Like in my state, if a club is full-nude, then they can't serve alcohol. If they serve alcohol, it has to be a pasties club. You can't really have both in this state.

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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    I was thinking the same thing. In MOST places, as a matter of law and/or alcohol regs, you can't have both full nudity and alcohol in the same club. Clubs don't have a choice in the matter.

    Furthermore, I have to say that many customers actually prefer topless dancing. The fact that one guy or some guys want full nude doesn't make that an automatic requirement for all clubs.

    This is a very narrow view of the way things 'should' be in a club. An open mind goes a long way in helping one enjoy the variety life has to offer. Good thing there are so many different people and so many different clubs to please them!

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  4. #4
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    I'm easy to please and here is my list of "basics" which I would like to see in any club, because here in northern Illinois we seem to have trouble getting the basics right
    from our local clubs.
    ..............
    I think that these are factual items not as subject to
    subjective judgements. What do you guys look for in a club, either to dance there or as a customer?
    I don't want to be too persnickety, but I just have some trouble keeping the logic thread through this. You have your own criteria about what a good club should be, but then it's supposed to be factual, not subjective. If you're throwing it out because it's related strictly to you, that makes it subjective.

    >>clubs in Illinois have very low contact

    I've been to clubs in Illinois that have very nice contact.

    >>1. Full nude dancing either table or stage. Pasties don't cut it.
    >>2. Along with full nude dancing they should have a full bar service. My first rule when traveling is, "no drinks in club don't go."

    I agree with Emily. In Colorado, you cannot have nude dancing and alcohol. You can have topless and alcohol. Whether the law should be that way or not, that's the way it is.

    >>3. Friendly staff and doormen. While doormen double as bouncers, they are the first face the customer sees.

    Oh, sure, that's easy to agree with. My favorite clubs have doorwomen, in fact.


    >>4. Related to the above. I can walk in and choose where to sit. Once there I can move around a bit.

    Sure.


    >>5. Adequate free surface parking with the option of not using the valet.

    Sure. In fact, the places I go to usually don't have a valet option at the time that I go there.


    >>6. Safe area for both my car and me.

    It'd be easy to say sure, but I don't always expect it. If I'm in a grungy neighborhood bar, I expect a grungy area. Lock it up.


    >>7. Public intimidation of a customer by DJ, waitress, dancer or doorman.

    Sure, unless the customer is out of line. I've stayed away from places because of heavyhanded bouncers/staff. If they're making it not fun, why stay?


    >>8. "Hustle factor" I know the dancers have to hustle.
    If they are intelligent, and can speak on something other than current fad passing rock bands, this is great.

    That's very subjective. I like intelligent dancers, too. But not every dancer can discuss the lepton family. Not every customer could, either. The strip club experience is a big one for all kinds of people. I bet there's guys who don't want to discuss issues at all, and it's a nice world when there are dancers for them, too.


    >>9. Bar "safe area". This is a neutral place near the main bar that many clubs have, where the hustle is limited

    Some clubs aren't big enough for that. And I bet it would be come to be known as the "freeload" area by the dancers.


    >>10. Clean bathrooms. Please don't start the attendant until 8 p.m.

    Oh, hell, yes. I expect a clean bathroom just going over to my next door neighbor's house. I've never understood the whole bathroom attendant thing. I don't need help in that area.

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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    I'm glad I got some discussion. The thread of logic is I don't have to hang around the northern Illinois clubs,
    I can go to Wisconsin and rural Illinois for my criteria... but not much contact. If I want contact I can go to the clubs in Gary Indianna area (Hammond), but not Chicago area.
    (I will admit that Gary is in the Chicago area. However it is quite a trek for anyone north, northwest or west of the city such that we weldom go there.)

    The point is I can go to entire other areas not
    just tolerate the way things are. My criteria is
    pretty much state of the art in some areas of Texas,
    (Not San Antonio), Georgia, areas in Wisconsin other than Milwaukee, and rural (non Chicago) Illinois.
    I thought the clubs in Arizona were good, but that was ten years ago.

    Don't put up with poor service and a business model that doesn't match a more laid back lifestyle. Go somewhere else. It's not that much of an effort to get to a different jurisdiction.

    Another issue hitting the rest of the country is
    the extreme "Palaces of strip" being built in Vegas.
    I would agree that they are overdone and create a high
    threshold of debt... but I like them. They are state
    of the art physical plants and they have raised the
    bar of competition for all other strip clubs in the country to compete. Almost anybody who goes to clubs in Chicago also gets to Vegas.

    If my criteria are "narrow" they may also be the wave of the future in expectations and physical plants.

    Youl might actually get a convention oriented suburb to approve a strip club like Jaguars or that new one in
    Vegas because they look good (inside and out)
    and they present a businesslike image. The old
    falling apart strip club that looks seedy is ripe for the
    politicians to close it down.

    My point is as customers we have a choice. We should
    vote with our feet and therefore our wallets.

    There is certainly a national market now for strip clubs
    that is developing. There is the start of chain striup club "stores". (My personal view is the chains aren't that good, but they are new and just starting out.)




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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    I'll say again in a different way, what's good in YOUR opinion, is just that, your OPINION. Don't think it fits everyone else.

    What's 'state of the art' in Texas or Georgia or where ever isn't necessarily 'state of the art' somewhere else. Different markets and all.

    Most customers already do some amount of voting with their feet. Some may not do as much travelling as others, but ALL go to the place(s) within their reach that suit them best. This is nothing new or 'state of the art'.

    Chain clubs are not new either. Been around for years.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    I am refering to two "new" types of chain strip operations.
    Spearmint Rhino which is international. (Think that's a new concept.)
    Deja Vu clubs are a coast to coast operation. Got a few listed on the stock exchange
    like Ricks... which is new within the last five years.

    The "old type" regional chains are still players. The most prominent being the Atlanta, Vegas, San Diego Galardi operations. Not truly national but big.

    Scores would be a player in the chain expansion with the opening of the Chicago
    operation for Scores.

    Should these "mega players" reach a formula for success (See my theorey above for the
    basics needed for a formula club for sucess) the industry and type of club is going to change
    quite a bit.

    (That is an opinion and a projection.)


    New is Spearmint Rhino on the international scene. Deja Vu on the national scene...
    and raising capital as a corporation on the stock exchange for Ricks. Not sure
    if the intestment is a sucess but the means of raising capital is new and different for the strip club industry.

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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    The industry and types of clubs have been changing since the beginning of time. (There have been women dancing for money/status for centuries - it just evolves with the times.)

    I still say you are being just a tad, shall we say, narrow-minded, when it comes to what is a 'good' and/or successful club.

    Spearmint Rhino, for the stripclub industry, isn't exactly new, and neither is Deja Vu for that matter. Ricks being on the stock exchange is old news as well. 5 years in this industry, as in many others, is a LONG time. Things have changed so drastically in this biz in the last 5 years, as an insider, it is almost unrecognizable. Alot of customers who've been around several years would agree. Sure, alot of things remain the same, but the way things are done in this biz has changed DRASTICALLY over the past 5 years (I use that number since that is what you threw out), moreso over the last 8 years I've been in it. Done alot of travelling too. Things have changed alot everywhere over those years.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    So what attributes do you look at as a dancer
    when choosing a club to work in?

    What types of management makes it a good place to work?

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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    For me, I look for a place that is has business, obviously, first and foremost. I tend to go for the more upscale, but will go to second tier places if they're busy and I can make the money. Money is always the main deciding factor.

    I look for a place that isn't toooooo high on the contact factor - ie, I won't ever work in San Francisco, and I won't go to clubs that are known for heavy extras. I don't mind some contact if the money is there, but nothing heavy and no extras.

    Next, and much further down on the list: management, dancer payouts, scheduling, dressing rooms, lockers, etc.
    - I like a club with professional management, rather than a relative of the owner who needs to support his coke habit and can't hold a thought for 5 seconds. Also I won't stick around in a place where the dancers are treated like walking ATMs or so much interchangeable meat. When I pay to work in an establishment, I am a business partner, and expect a modicum of decency and respect.
    - Lower dancer payouts are nice, but I look at in proportion to what I can take home. In a club where I can take home $500+ after payouts, I don't mind paying more to work there than at a club where I can only take home $200-300.
    - I prefer loose scheduling, and tend to look for clubs with those policies. I am an independent contractor after all, so I don't like too many rules regarding my schedule. I work hard, but when I want/need a day off, I want it dammit!
    - A decent dressing room with enough lockers and lighting for the number of girls on shift. It is a royal pain in the ass to have to fight for lockers, or bring in a roller bag to lock up. It is even more of a pain in the ass to have to scrounge for mirror space so I can put on my lipstick!

    These are all variable. No two areas are the same, so adjustments have to be made to fit the norms in the area. I will also forsake dressing room space or free scheduling if I know I can make the bucks, but frankly, I can work pretty much anywhere I want and make money, so those conveniences will be a factor when considering whether to work in a place for an extended period of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  11. #11
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    When going into a strip club, I look for pretty ladies who aren't wearing much clothing.

    Neighborhood bar, show club, palace, hole in the wall - as long as the attitude is good, and the prices aren't terribly scary walking in, the club is good.

    There's plenty of communities where either the population base or the laws don't allow for the type of club you're talking about, and the clubs do OK. But we can watch and see if your projections are accurate.

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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    Nice guy, perhaps you should put money where your mouth is...open your own club! Then contend with creating that atmosphere you so desire...best way to change things, is take the reigns! Also the Spearmint Rhino...out of Russia right? Perhaps i am jaded, but....think *mob* Russian mafia...that is what i think of when i see their club! hee hee, true though. Deja Vu, they treat the girls like crap, and are buying 'Hustler's' name to cover up a crappy reputation. Plus, even guys are put off by Deja's "hustle" quota that must be met...
    Niceguy...open your own club...then you can see first hand, seems like this would be a worthwhile 'experiment' for you to undertake! Best wishes!

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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    Strip clubs, and all bar/restaurants are management intensive. To follow my own criteria you would need
    a lot of money and connections including local ones.

    On the other hand SC's done correctly make a lot of money... I think. I tend to patronize the clubs I feel are done correctly... on the basics. (See above.)

    Right now the investment climate in this country tends to emphasize financial investments (read paper investments like stock, bonds partnerships) over
    direct investments like operating a business (strip clubs)
    or direct real estate investment.

    Actually all investments require work to keep track of.
    I just prefer the computer analysis kind and reading over covering shifts in the bar, washing dishes when
    nobody shows up, or arguing with customers or managing dancers. (It may surprise you to know that dancers think of themselves as their own business and don't want to be managed.)

    During bad times or unstable times, owning real assets
    (like real estate or a business) are better and more secure than the paper assets. At least you have something and you are in control each day.

    I think the run in paper assets is beginning again and
    isn't over. It is thus less work of the type I don't like to do to not directly own and manage a business right now. I might add that Sc's are considered high risk high
    reward types of business with uncertain political
    and business risk. If I want to gamble I go to Vegas.


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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    It may suprise you to know that dancers ARE their own business and shouldn't want or need to be managed.

    Lena



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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    Nice guy,
    I hate to tell you but if you do not treat them like they are their own business, you are in deep doodoo. First if you overly manage them, they are no longer independent contractors, they are employees. Then you have to pay them at least the full minimum wage (not the restaurant min wage). You also can't collect fees for allowing them to work there. You can't make employees pay fees to work--that is a kickback and makes the whole system becomes illegal and a fertile grounds for a lawsuit.
    You can manage them in the sense of coordinating activities but be very careful of the boundary between employee and contractor.
    You can not have it both ways

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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    It may surprise you to know that dancers think of themselves as their own business and don't want to be managed.
    LMAO!!! Boy do you need to learn a thing or two. Dancers who pay an establishment to work there ARE their own business - a PARTNER of the establishment in which they are working, in fact. This is one of the biggest problems many clubs have - they want us to be 'independent contractors' (ie, business entities), but they want to impose 'management' regulations on us, as if we're employees. Of course, SOME general polices in regards to the way business is done in a particular establishment is expected and accepted, as long as the fact that as independent contractors we are still separate, self-governing business entities isn't forgotten.

    I am REALLY glad you aren't interested in running your own club.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    Another issue hitting the rest of the country is
    the extreme "Palaces of strip" being built in Vegas.
    I would agree that they are overdone and create a high
    threshold of debt... but I like them. They are state
    of the art physical plants and they have raised the
    bar of competition for all other strip clubs in the country to compete. Almost anybody who goes to clubs in Chicago also gets to Vegas.
    Those "state of the art physical plants" in Las Vegas are carrying a high threshold of debt because they were built in part to wash illegitamate money from activities even less reputable than stripping (think the Sopranos). They are not neccesarily there to turn a profit from overpriced drinks.

    It should also be noted that LV is a world famous tourist mecca and is therefore in a class by itself. There is no market need to build a Vegas style megaclub in less glamorous places like Omaha or Peoria.

    If my criteria are "narrow" they may also be the wave of the future in expectations and physical plants.
    Doubtful, for reasons already stated, and the fact that both customers and dancers alike in Las Vegas seem to prefer the atmosphere of the "run down" old school clubs (Cheetah's, Olympic Garden, Crazy Horse Too). Read some of the customer comments on TUSCL about the megaclubs being described as empty tombs with stuffy employees. I like a club to look nice, but they do not need marble entrances, mahogany furniture and skyboxes to be profitable.

    Youl might actually get a convention oriented suburb to approve a strip club like Jaguars or that new one in
    Vegas because they look good (inside and out)
    and they present a businesslike image. The old falling apart strip club that looks seedy is ripe for the politicians to close it down.
    Please. Considering most suburbs are where the most affluent and conservative voters often live, that would be the last place that one would expect ANY strip club to pop up. Why do you think so many clubs (even nice ones) are located in seedy crime infested neighborhoods, industrial parks, and fringe areas outside city limits? If you ever find this "convention oriented suburb" that would welcome such places, please tell me because I'd consider moving there.

    My point is as customers we have a choice. We should vote with our feet and therefore our wallets.
    Your elected officials, not club owners are the ones trying to restrict that choice. How about helping to vote them out of office.

    There is certainly a national market now for strip clubs that is developing.
    I would have agreed with this maybe 5-8 years ago, but you're way behind the times. I'd say that the strip club market in this country peaked sometime around 1998, some would even say earlier.

    Once the economy began to sour and people began getting laid off, it not only deprived girls already dancing of the male customers who lost their jobs and saw their retirement savings vanish, but it flooded the clubs with new dancers, namely women put out of their mainstream employment by the same economic decline. Supply went up. Demand went down.

    Compound this with a plethora of considerably cheaper adult fare available over the internet, and you have an adult entertainment market that is seriously bloated. Some clubs are only still in business because they began treating their dancers as an alternative revenue source by raising house fees to make up for the lack of revenue from customers. In some clubs, particularly on slow nights, its not uncommon for those fees to generate more revenue for the club than the bar and door cover.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    Whatever. How about Rosemont Illinois right by O hare but not in Chicago.
    They almost got their own casino. Already have a huge convention center and mega hotels.
    They are right around where the casino was supposed to have been built. How about that?
    The legal fiction that dancers are independent contractors is just that a legal fiction for
    liability and business reasons. Schedules, fines, mandatory tipouts, rules, dress codes,
    are all control elements.

    I suggest mega Vegas style clubs in New York, Chicago, LA and maybe Miami for the international money.

    Agree it won't work in Kansas.

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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    Whatever. How about Rosemont Illinois right by O hare but not in Chicago.
    They almost got their own casino. Already have a huge convention center and mega hotels.
    They are right around where the casino was supposed to have been built. How about that?
    The legal fiction that dancers are independent contractors is just that a legal fiction for
    liability and business reasons. Schedules, fines, mandatory tipouts, rules, dress codes,
    are all control elements.

    I suggest mega Vegas style clubs in New York, Chicago, LA and maybe Miami for the international money.

    Agree it won't work in Kansas.
    Well your example falls flat because of that one huge word, almost. Many areas have almost gotten this or that, but when it's put to the vote, it doesn't fly because the voters won't approve of 'adult businesses' operating next to their homes, where their kids and grandkids go to school and play.


    Dancers being independent contractors is a legal fiction? Is that what you meant to write? Hehe, if that is in fact what you meant, boy would I love to have a manager or owner on record saying that! Talk about lawsuits up to their eyeballs! As I said before, one of the biggest problems alot of clubs have is that they don't understand that the dancers working with them are their own business entities and should be treated as such. Trying to charge us as contractors but control us as employees is the root of all the friction between management and dancers leading to most of the problems in the clubs that lead to loss of profits for everyone, management and ownership included.


    You are an outsider and way behind what is going on in this industry. If you think you can run the industry, by all means, give it a shot. Put up or shut up.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    A mega Vegas style club would never work in LA. So many dancers move from California because the economy is absolutely horrible. The clubs out there survive from extorting outrageous amounts of money from the dancers. All you have to do is go into almost any strip club out there and you will see tons of fat uglies working. If these clubs were making money strictly off of fulfilling the customers wants and needs, do you really think that they would survive "hiring" all of those fat uglies? The majority of strip clubs have absolutely no interest whatsoever in providing customer satisfaction.

    By the way, I am one of those displaced women who never would have considered dancing a few years ago. There is an enormous supply of displaced and desparte people out there who have had to figure out another way to survive. Some money is better than no money. Yes it is a hard sell. In most strip clubs you will find more dancers than customers. The customer may spend 20 to get in and 20 on drinks. Now think about how much money these guys make off of the dancers. Most clubs charge flat fees. They don't care if the dancer makes any profit at all. There are a few clubs that charge a percentage of dances actually sold. Clubs like that are few and far between. When you have more dancers than customers and the dancers have paid a flat fee, that makes for a lot of scared and desparate women hoping that some guy will buy enough dances so that she walks out with a decent profit.
    You have to realize that the guys who run these clubs are untouchable. Don't think for one second that you can make these people feel bad or guilty. They live in a whole different world.
    Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. - M Rivero

  21. #21
    Featured Member polecat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    >>"So many dancers move from California because the economy is absolutely
    >>horrible. The clubs out there survive from extorting outrageous amounts of
    >>money from the dancers."

    It's almost uncanny how true this has become. Doing some very conservative, basic figures with local clubs, some of these places with next to ZERO overhead are pulling $20K-$30K a week from dancers, not including cover charge, dance meter or drink profits. The pay-off lines and ties must be deep pocketed or something. It truly is a whole different world. I can only imagine some big, flaming, Vegas-style extravaganza would only deeper bite into the dancer's pockets. Seems like extra expense with little return, in my opinion. The guys go for the dancers anyways, regardless of how much neon and chrome they have to walk through to get to them.


    >>By the way, I am one of those displaced women who never would have
    >>considered dancing a few years ago. There is an enormous supply of
    >>displaced and desparte people out there who have had to figure out
    >>another way to survive.

    Figure for every 7 or 8 grabby, rude bastards, there is at least one person you've had a positive impact on. Dancers offer an escape.. a method to bury life's pains and make us feel good about ourselves. It's rarely spoken inside the club, but it is indeed warmly felt upon leaving. I hope this simple fact has helped you reconsider your initial feelings on what you do.

    The flat-fee anxiety is truly a bummer right now. Dancer's in California that have been around for a while are feeling it. Several years ago, they were on the top of the world during the dotcom boom, but its crashed hard and with the steady decline, club fees are up and visitor counts are down- not a good combination. Your patrons are feeling it too.

    All truth be told, the real answer to getting visitor counts up isn't anything the club owners should do or add- but instead reverse the bad decisions made of increasing fees and hiring on more dancers. In true bean-counter style, when funds are down, hike fees and bring on more. Like you said- it's not uncommon to see strip clubs with a near 2:1 dancer to customer ratio at many points during the day, and all of the dancers are paying higher fees than they were during better economic times. Stressed dancers and new faces almost daily from the revolving door of those unable to make fees doesn't appeal to patrons. If the clubs themselves were to share in the hurt a little, reduce fees and keep the dancer to patron ratio sane, just maybe things would start to turn the other way.
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

  22. #22
    Veteran Member winter2003's Avatar
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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    Thank you Brigette, Polecat, Dr. Catfish, livenudegirlsunite, Lena, Jason and Emily...perhaps Mr. niceguy will listen(read)! Very good posts to learn from, imo. Those huge 'international' complexes you write of...why don't you just walk down to your local appliance store and get a washing machine? --Guido wants you to! hee hee, the only 'international' monies you shall find there is most likely illegal! Cripes, Niceguy, it is like you choose to live in your own world...read the responses and learn, even if you are not happy with the replies.

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Rayleen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs



    Club attributes or basics that each club should have
    1. Full nude dancing either table or stage. Pasties don't cut it.
    I say topless or nude option -like $20 topless and $40 nude dances

    2. Along with full nude dancing they should have a full
    bar service. My first rule when traveling is, "no drinks in club don't go."
    I agree -if I can get a mixed drink at Outback I should be able to get one at a titty bar :-/


    3. Friendly staff and doormen. While doormen double as bouncers, they are the first face the customer sees.
    A surly doorman wearing a black suit, with a bulge under his arm and a domineering attitude is an immediate reject for me. I ve been known to walk out the door when I see "Vito the enforcer" as the first
    person I see in a club. (In some areas Vito needs to be there, just not as the up front PR person making the decisions on seating.)
    I like Vitto But along with Vitto I'd like to see this more :
    An older 35-4ish
    attractive females work as Floor
    Hostess- not a door girl but more of a concierge- in a conservative but sexy pants suit. She will get dancers for the tables, bring
    cigars basically
    ask if the customer needs anything periodically.


    7. Public intimidation of a customer by DJ, waitress, dancer or doorman. This has never happened to me.
    The first time it ever does I will get up and leave.
    can't say I have seen this happen undeserved. It probably has never happened to you because you conduct yourself properly.


    10. Clean bathrooms. Please don't start the attendant until 8 p.m.???
    I disagree- bathroom attendants should be there all the time and should be paid employees and part of the services the club provides.
    Just some notes in purple on your well thought out list.
    Also for the dancers I would add to that list the following:

    1. valet and bouncers service included in tip out
    2. Separate bathroom for dancers only,in dressing room.
    3. one single fee paid up front -like $40 when dancers starts shift.
    4. clean club/stage that isn't too dark.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Comparing physical facts on clubs

    Her Rayleen... Thanks for the comment on well thought out.
    Times they are a changin. Actually as far as the show aspect of clubs
    I wish that came back. The more contact between customers and dancers the more
    likely through time that a particular club will be closed whenever local politics changes around it.

    I still think upscale physical facilities that look good inside and out, that welcome women as customers (new trend I think we agree), emphasize the show aspect, but are full nude with full bar will survive and not be as likely to be closed down.

    This type of place won't make it everywhere. Low land cost for the size needed
    is probably a must, with access to more than one freeway or near an interchange near two freeways. There actually are people who can value and consult on strip club locations,
    real estate value, business value, and facility design. Most of these seem to be appraisers located near Vegas.

    As a customer I would like them to look like Jaguars in Vegas, have drink and beer as cheap as Wisconsin, have a restaurant (which loses money to ownership), and have
    rules of engagement with full bars like Atlanta.

    Why? BECAUSE I"M a CUSTOMER AND THIS IS WHAT I LOOK FOR IN A CLUB!
    As an owner you can't do all of these. However facilities are slowly upgrading in the industry.

    Finally... I am aware of the climate of desperation in many dancers. You have to make
    an effort to know them and they have to think you are worth it revealing a a bit
    about themselves.

    The really smart women I met in the past year who have advanced degrees and who can't get a job and are dancing pounded the fact home to me and that includes my ATF.

    I'm hanging around in the clubs myself because the business climate was so bad in the
    past year. Recently, things are looking up so let's hope for all of us, better jobs,
    more tips, happier times, (and cleaner newer facilities) for all.




  25. #25
    Senior Member mermaid's Avatar
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    Default Hmm. You better stay outta Seattle!!

    You'd be one unhappy camper!
    NO alcohol. Period.
    4 foot laws going into effect everywhere, which means zero contact. If you do go into one the the few remaining clubs that look the other way on the dances- in the event of a raid, undercover or uniformed police visit, you and the dance could be ticketed, arrested, whatever the cops feel like hitting ya with. Usually it's the dancer, but customers HAVE been ticketed for soliciting, as well as the dancer for anything from standards of conduct violation to prostitution. Fun.
    The quality of the clubs- strippers and clubs are deviants and corruptors of society here. There is no allowance for big, beautiful, customer-friendly clubs. They don't want to you to like it in the clubs.
    Be glad you are where you are, you could be here!!
    "Sometimes there just aren't enough rocks"-
    Forrest Gump

    MYSPACE: http://www.myspace.com/honeedripper

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