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Thread: Hate to ask but...

  1. #1
    God/dess Bella21's Avatar
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    Default Hate to ask but...

    Okay, you guys can hopefully help me with my homework pleeaasseee? [halo]
    My eng teacher assigned me a controversial essay. I want to do how the government needs to back off the strip club industry (she knows I'm a dancer already)! I was gonna bring up (thanks melonie ) how porn, which is BASICALLY sex for money is legal but you can't sit on a guys lap?! It's a pretty informal essay.... Anyone know any good sources?
    If you think school is hard, try being stupid.

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    Member Nina_Horning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    Ask Melonie more about it, no doubt she has a load to say about it, which trust me is not a bad thing at all.
    Sex is GoOd, Sex is Fine, Doggie Style or 69, Just For Fun, or Getting Paid, Everyone Loves Getting Laid, So if Ya Want Me in The Sack, Lick ur Lips and Hit Me Back...!!

  3. #3
    Ravin
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    Ditto, Mel is the most knowledgeable person I've meet on this site. I'll bet she has a lot of information for you.

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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    Bella, try the first amendment. Enough said. Hope that helps!

  5. #5
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    Here's some info on various subjects, including porn and ecdysiastic endeavors.



    - Jason

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    Veteran Member livenudegirlsunite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    http://www.eda-sf.org/
    The Exotic Dancers Alliance is a great site for articles and they also have information about organizations like COYOTE call off your tired old ethics. You will find tons of information there. Melonie is also a great person to talk to.
    Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. - M Rivero

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    Veteran Member xmarx52's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    Quite seriously Bella, Melonie is a wealth of information and can most likely point you to a lot of other sources online as well. Not to mention she is a really sweet person who I have no doubt will be willing to help. Just send her a PM I bet she will have something that will help.

    Text books are great but if you had Paul Macartney living across the street from you would you go to the library to research the British Invasion or just ask Paul?

    Mel is the Beatles of the strip world, just younger and not quite as rich darn it!
    Anyone with a memory should be very humble.

  8. #8
    Pamela
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    I love Melonies posts very much, but i think you will get an argument about "the porn is sex for money thing." If thats the case so is Jane mag. meant for women (they have nudes of women) and Cosmo as well because they have the most provacative pictures at times, "sex selling perfume" or "underwear" I have tried the mens mags. are actually seling sex for them. It's a very tough call. We have naked wome today in "many womens magazines! And men are reading them, as well as looking at the pictures.

    And TV as well, 80% of the population has HBO i'm sure, we have naked women all the time late nights on HBO. (TV)

    And the argument i got was "the magazines (for men) are art. And not meant for the purpose of performing self sex, (although a guy can get a hard-on watching two lizards screw.)

    Porn is not considered sex for money. because these are only pictures, and self sex is not illegal in your home. Like i said i had the argument that nude or semi nude mags. are not two people having sex, so they get off the hook this way. I see advertisements for bras in my newspaper, pretty provacative for a guy who likes a half dressed women, and in the local paper. They look very sexy, but it's not meant to sell sex. It's all over. Esquire, Mens Health etc. And these women are nude!

    That was my experience. Been there when i posed nude and sold pictures, was told i was not selling sex. No worry. And this was at my job (hospital) we went through this. I tried the old porn mag. thing. For me it did not work, i see the point. Actually both ways. It's a fine line when people start activly talking about it in person, especially men! They (most) say it's art. And all over the best Art Museums there are very racy nudes! They are not selling a piece of sex. Swank and the like, i see as trash anyway. But the debate is out there for many when confronted. I agree, with it as being sex sold in away, but when it was explained "sex" is just that sex. It's an act between two people in real life. Not magazines. That is selling pornography, which sinse it has different meanings i hit a road block. My experience.

    Lotsa luck,
    Pamela

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    Veteran Member xmarx52's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    And that last post was by the Rolling Stones of Stripping, but she looks so much younger than Keith Richards! LOL
    Hi Pamela!
    Anyone with a memory should be very humble.

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    Veteran Member Mercury_Deep's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    How about the world's fair in Chicago, isn't that when this whole idea was introduced to average Americans? If so, it may be worth researching...
    Eyeliner and charisma go a long way!

  11. #11
    Pamela
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    Still love ya X!!!!!!

    Thats pretty much my point, look around... sex walks down the streets these days, females dressed like they walked off a Brit. or Christine stage as a back up dancer, half nude! It's sold and free. All over. So many examples can be brought up about this issue. Not just what is considered "porn" sex sells PERFUME!

    Pamela

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    Veteran Member xmarx52's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    How about the world's fair in Chicago, isn't that when this whole idea was introduced to average Americans? If so, it may be worth researching...

    Thats a cool thought House Girl. I think you are referring to "Sally Rand", correct? She did what was called "The Fan Dance". Talk about a pioneer of stripping!

    Cool to know that a dancer knows some history or her profession, good for you!
    Anyone with a memory should be very humble.

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    Veteran Member Mercury_Deep's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    yes xmark52, that's right! I was thinking of 1893 the year the middle eastern dancers debuted "belly dancing" and the "hootchie cootchie" came along soon after... Sally Rand's fan dance was at the 1933 world's fair...
    Eyeliner and charisma go a long way!

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    I think the porn = sex for money argument comes from the fact that the performers in hard-core porn are literally having sex and being paid for it. Isn't that prostitution?

    As for your research Bella, you might also find some interesting info if you research the history of the Mitchell Brothers O'Farrell Theater in SF - they have a very interesting history with legal issues concerning sex for money, porn, prostitution, etc etc etc. I'm sure you could find alot of interesting articles to draw from. (They are the guys who made the film 'Behind the Green Door' which was so controversial at the time.)

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Veteran Member xmarx52's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    I think the porn = sex for money argument comes from the fact that the performers in hard-core porn are literally having sex and being paid for it. Isn't that prostitution?

    Does an act cease to be that act if a camera is turned on while the act takes place? Legally I am sure if Quentin Tarentino had filmed a real murder in the making of KILL BILL the person who did the killing would be brought up on charges. Or if you did a movie about shoplifting and the actor really shoplifted in a store he would be prosecuted right?

    But here is the rub, the defense I would think is that the sex is not what the actors are paid for, they are paid for pretending to be the characters they are portraying. A fine line for sure but still I can see that the line exists.

    Stealing or killing is of itself illegal but having sex is not illegal unless you get paid to do it, that I guess is the difference?

    Somebody call Johnny Cohran and ask him about this.
    Anyone with a memory should be very humble.

  16. #16
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    If the actors in your examples are playing characters, and kill or steal as part of the role, couldn't they argue that they were just playing a role as well? And if playing a role involves having sex as part of the script, and they're getting paid to play the role, isn't it still the same thing - sex for money?

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    God/dess Lena's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    feministstripper.com also has some good articles that can be used as references.



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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    Bella , in porn all the active participants are actors. They are established , recognized, and well...um..documented. All of them get checked out before they perform and the cast is restricted.
    Their audience are restricted to viewing images of their performance on a silver screen.
    In lap dancing you could be with a customer that nobody knows, nobody recognizes, nobody checked out in close proxminity to your person. Your performance is in relative seclusion, probably undocumented, and unsupervised. There's a lot more possibility for foul play in your incidence.

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    And THAT I think is the problem. It's ok for a company to pay actors to have sex (who are seen as having questionable morals but not really a threat to the security of Harriet the Housewife), but it's not ok for Harriet's husband to go in and look at a real live naked girl, because, god forbid, he might want to touch her! It's not like he can't find other ways of cheating on his wife

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    Another thing I forgot to add. You can't catch AIDS by watching porn.

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    And you can't catch AIDS from getting a REGULAR lapdance, no extras. But the 'actors' making the porn CAN get and pass AIDS.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  22. #22
    Veteran Member Kittie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    I just watched this movie about Ron Jeremy. It was kind of a biography thing and they kind of touched on this issue in the movie.

    The reason that porno actors can have sex and be paid for it and not have it considered prostitution or illegal is that it isn't live. It's on film. Which makes it an art, and is protected as free speech by the first amendment.

  23. #23
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    It is live - they are having live sex in front of a camera crew and getting paid for it. They can justify it by calling it whatever they want. They are still getting paid to have sex. Live and in person.

    Not saying there's anything wrong with it. Just that if it's ok for people to get paid for sex in one way, it should be ok in another.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  24. #24
    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hate to ask but...

    Not to stir up anyone, but a PART of the difference between porn and lap dance conduct inolves the distintinction between speech and conduct. I am expressing no opinion, but a film or magazine is treated more directly as "speech" where a lapdance is considered "conduct". A somewaht comparable comparison which highlights this distinction is what a stage dancer does may be considered "speech" where rubbing a nude body against a customer may be thought of as conduct. The object of a film is to make a statement not the process of having sex. If the male actor were paying to be in the film, it might be considered conduct and the filming an ancillary addon.

    The other aspect is that the constitution puts liquor laws in the hands of the states or their designated agents, in some cases, local govt. The constitution grants states broad powers if alcohol is involved in any commercial fashion. Hence no-alcohol and byob clubs in some locals.

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