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Thread: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

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    Veteran Member carmenNYC's Avatar
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    Default The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    I've read many posts in which girls say that buisness was so much better a few years ago, they were making so much more $$$, etc etc. Can someone please elaborate on this subject???? What kind of $$$ were dancers making in the business's peak? Why is it so much different now, why have i read over and over how buisness is getting worse and dancers are making way less $$....?

    sorry if this seems like a dumb question, i am fairly new to the buisness...

    ~carm

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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    My take on it is when the economy plummeted on 9/11. My agent danced a few years ago and said she made about 200.000 a year, compared to our 50-100.000 a year most make now. Also, You see naked people in porn doing EVERYTHING now adays. It's not as taboo. Times are a-changin'
    If you think school is hard, try being stupid.

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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    A few years ago it was nothing to make 500.- 800. a night, now its more like 100. - 250. The money just isn't what it use to be!! Business is slower everywhere.

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    From my experience: There weren't 400 clubs in every city, clubs were WAY more selective the girls they allowed to work, girls were treated better all around, it was more of a show atmosphere rather than just 'stage-fucking' for $1's, new girls were actually trained on how to work/dance/behave/earn, business customers had more loose expense account policies so didn't care as much about what they were spending, economy was better, customers weren't quite so jaded / hadn't seen the same routines over and over for years, and so on. Lots of things have changed. In the 90s it was no big deal to earn $500-$800 on dayshift, in the same places where now $300 is great - also nightshift girls were making $1k regularly, where now $500 is a great night.

    One thing we girls can do is make an effort to do ORIGINAL routines - most routines that most of us do have been done to death, and despite their appeal, customers have seen it all before. And the standard routine of wearing the same stripper dresses, writhing around in it a bit before shucking it off like you're about to get in the shower, then writhing around somemore is tired tired tired. It doesn't take alot of effort to wear something a bit different and remove it in a seductive way, rather than just shove it to the floor and commence grinding - and impress customers, hold their interest a bit longer. We can't change the other things that negatively affect our business, but we can improve our own routines.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    From what I have gleaned from the "old timers", the heyday of the exotic dancing industry from an earnings standpoint was in the late 1980's extending to about the mid to late 1990's. I know that it is easy to say that the events of 9/11 and the stock market crash are the reasons for the decline in this industry. However, this would be ignoring many other major factors ...

    The rise of the internet around 1995 for the first time brought 2 dimensional nude girls, XXX and all sorts of bizarre adult content into every home in America equipped with an internet connection. This eliminated the embarrassment factor some guys previously felt in buying adult magazines at newsstands, renting XXX tapes at a video store, and going out to clubs. As a result the pool of club customers declined somewhat as some guys now simply stayed home. The proliferation of pay per view XXX cable and satellite post 1995 made this alternative even more appealing.

    Around the 1996 election the conservative element in US politics began asserting itself due in part to a backlash against Bill Clinton's antics. This in turn led to newly elected conservative city councils and mayors instituting a crusade to "clean up" their cities, resulting in the passage of restrictive new anti-dance club ordinances followed by club busts (with NYC and PA leading the way circa 1996). Perhaps more importantly, this raised the negative profile of dance clubs in the media and permanently scared off some upscale customers who were no longer willing to risk that their club patronage might wind up being front page news.

    Along with the conservative wave in government, there was also a conservative wave in business, which really started kicking in around 1995 with the Ivan Boesky/Michael Milkin insider trading convictions. This resulted in stricter accounting standards for business and higher standards of business ethics (in theory at least). One effect of this conservative wave in business was to rein in the expense accounts of salesmen who had previously used dance clubs (among other inducements) as a tool to persuade would-be customers to sign on the dotted line. This removed a lot of corporate money and a lot of upscale potential new club customers from the clubs.

    After the widespread introduction of the lap dance in the early 90's, the nature of dance clubs began to shift towards a more sexually charged contact oriented environment versus the previous show business environment. At the same time, the nature of feature entertainers also began to shift away from that of showgirls, big boobs girls etc. and towards XXX entertainers instead. With the exception of the handful of very upscale "show clubs" which continued to uphold the show business tradition, many businessmen and family men became increasingly uncomfortable with the increasing "sex business" and high presure sales tactics beginning to dominate average clubs. This caused some businessmen and family men who were close enough to and who could afford to go to the very upscale clubs to shift their business. In cities which did not have an upscale "show business" club, or for guys who simply couldn't afford the very upscale clubs, this simply caused former customers to quit going to average clubs as lap grinding and "wanna dance" replaced quality stage performances and conversation.

    Unfortunately, I have to take a different viewpoint from Brigette in that I don't believe it's possible to "put the Genie back in the bottle". Too many things affecting the exotic dancing industry have permanently changed over the past few years to ever allow a profitable return to "show business". There is simply not enough incentive remaining for customers to come to average clubs and spend lots of money with the sole expectation of seeing a topless or nude "girl next door" dancing 6 feet away.

    Also the early 90's upward trend in dance clubs of offering girls more beautiful than ever on stage, breasts bigger than ever, private dances more exciting than ever, XXX features more risque than ever etc. has unquestionably been broken. There is nothing new for dance clubs to (legally) offer at this point which hasn't already been offered, and in many cases anti-dance club laws are requiring them to offer less than they used to. At this point, with the possible exception of a handful of very upscale "show clubs" which are holding their own so to speak, average dance clubs are clearly in a downward trend. The only new offerings available are "extras"! Of course "extras" themselves aren't new, but they are moving from hotel rooms and street corners into VIP rooms.

    This is the basis of my "prediction" that US clubs are firmly headed in the direction of European clubs, where a small percentage of very upscale "show clubs" employing only the best of the best looking "hostess" dancers will offer show business style entertainment and companionship to upscale businessmen and family men, and where a significant percentage of other clubs will effectively offer "sex for money" albeit illegally. Any girls who do not meet the standards to get hired in the very upscale "show clubs" and who are not willing to offer "sex for money" in the other clubs should expect to see their dancing earnings continue to decline.

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    God/dess Zofia's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    1999 was the beginng of a recession in the automotive industry. We still haven't climbed out of that one. It hit the rust belt states hard. They have since learned to live with it, but no one is happy. That coincided with my entry into the business. So, my viewpoint is strictly from the downside of the business cycle. I would say that by applying myself pretty dilligently, I was able to make on average, $50,000 per year from dancing. I did this on a part-time basis during the school year and full time in the summer. I always took a week off for spring break and a week off sometime in the summer to take a real vacation. Had I been working full time, I think I'd have been able to make $100,000 per year just from dancing.

    I've been out of the business as a dancer for a year and a half now. But, I still go to the clubs as a customer sometimes with my boyfriend, sometimes without. From what I've seen, Melonie is right on the money. There has been a real divergence both talent wise and money wise among the clubs.

    In Durham, NC there is one "show" club. In Raleigh, NC where I live now, there is one "show" club. The talent is pretty good there, mostly 9s and 10s. I'm a little jealous because the've brought in some Eastern European girls to work there. Eighteen months ago when I first moved here, they told me my look (my mom is from Argentina, but of Bulgarian descent) was too exotic. Now they have a bunch of girls who look like me. Well, prettier, but the same general look.

    Elsewhere in the Triangle, there are a bunch of neighborhood clubs. The talent level is definitely not as high there. No 9s or 10s, where previously there probably would have been some. At those clubs it looks like no one is making the kind of money that even I used to make in Indy, where admittedly there were no real show clubs. Even if Dancers and Brad's liked to think they were.

    There are some after hours places where I am pretty sure the girls are making good money. But, the level of extras they offer just isn't my thing.

    All that may change. I'm always reluctant to forecast a ever better or worse numbers based on a current trend. All businesses are cyclical.

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    Veteran Member carmenNYC's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    jesus christ, melonie....haha....thanks...i was waiting for you to post a research paper on this topic, as usual you never fail to give great info

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    Veteran Member Adina's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    Sorry, but I think all of this "the gold old days" nostalgia is a bunch of BS. Strippers may have made more money while the economy was at its peak, but to act as if prostitution inside and outside the clubs is some new phenomenon is plain ridiculous. Melonie, surely you remember the Harmony Theatre? When Times Square was down & out and dirty in the late 60s, 70s, and a good part of the 80s, the atmosphere inside strip clubs was like it is in Amsterdam's red light district. Rooms in the back of the clubs with cots for rent, masturbation out in the open.

    This was not limited to New York. My stepfather is a former military man who was stationed in various states in the late 60s. He has told me strippers and brass poles were around then too, only the crowd was a lot more rough-and-tumble. Soldiers, sailors, etc. "Dancers" stuck bottles and various other things inside themselves during a performance, and between sets they would solicit customers for sex acts.

    Gentlemen's clubs, where educated professional men could feel comfortable in their surroundings, only came into vogue in the last 15-20 years. The conditions & the money may have been better in the clubs then. But the 80s was a period of conservative backlash against the counterculture of the permissive 70s and late 60s. Gentlemen's clubs had a novelty factor. The novelty has long worn off. 1985 to 1999/2000 was also a time of great economic prosperity. Even the correction in '87 and the recession in the early 90s was a blip on the radar screen compared to the way things are now. Almost everyone is making less money now. Why would strippers be exempt from this? Strippers make their bread and butter from the working man.

    I think it's important to look at things within their proper context. This broken record routine of dancers whining about that fact that "things ain't the way they used to be" has become really, really stale. Things are never the way they used to be - things change. The pendulum swings back and forth. In business the old adage is "adapt or die." Strip clubs are businesses too.

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    Veteran Member carmenNYC's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    I think it's important to look at things within their proper context. This broken record routine of dancers whining about that fact that "things ain't the way they used to be" has become really, really stale. Things are never the way they used to be - things change. The pendulum swings back and forth. In business the old adage is "adapt or die." Strip clubs are businesses too.

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    Veteran Member carmenNYC's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    adina, although i was not in the bizz when it was apparently so much better, i completely agree with the above quote...people in all different professions always seem to reminisce about the "good old days", blah blah blah.

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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    Melonie, surely you remember the Harmony Theatre? When Times Square was down & out and dirty in the late 60s, 70s, and a good part of the 80s, the atmosphere inside strip clubs was like it is in Amsterdam's red light district. Rooms in the back of the clubs with cots for rent, masturbation out in the open.
    Yes of course I had heard of the Harmony Theatre in NYC, as well as Mitchell Bro's OFarrell Theatre in SF, and other "Theatres" in a few other cities. I would hardly attempt to classify these as average clubs or the girls that worked in them as "exotic dancers". They were what they were - sex clubs - everybody knew it but nobody officially admitted it ... until the conservative crackdown anyhow. Most of these sex clubs pre-date the "golden age" of exotic dance clubs which began in the late 80's (i.e. the rise of Gentlemen's Clubs). However, all except MBOT have long since been closed down.

    I have no doubt that the "pendulum" is probably swinging in the other direction today though, with many average clubs either slowly turning into future versions of these sex clubs or headed towards bankruptcy.

    I think you misread the point of my post. I was not saying that "sex for money" in any sort of clubs was a new phenomena. What I was saying is that "sex for money" in the VIP rooms of average dance clubs, which until a year or two ago had previously not offered much in the way of contact, is more or less new. A corrolary to this is that some guys who used to find their "entertainment" on streetcorners or in hotel rooms have now discovered that they can find it in club VIP rooms as well (or at least make a hookup for later), and these sort of customers now comprise a growing percentage of the total available money to be earned by dancers in these clubs.

    However I do not agree that the "pendulum" theory is going to apply to average clubs. IMHO average clubs are headed down the same path as buggy whips as they continue to try and offer a "product" which fewer and fewer customers are satisfied with. Those that want absolutely primo entertainment will move up to the very upscale "show clubs". Those that want sex to whatever degree available will migrate to the high contact/after hours clubs. What's likely to be left in the way of customers in average clubs are guys who want a few beers and the chance to watch some "girls next door" dance in exchange for a few extra dollars in tips and maybe, maybe one or two $10 private dances, with a total nightly entertainment budget of maybe $30-$50.

    For the record, I'm not pining for the "good ol' days". Instead I have been adapting to changing business conditions since the late 1990's with my pay website, webcam, custom videos and other peripheral businesses which began an uptrend at the same time the fate of dance clubs entered a downtrend. As you said, when business conditions change you either have to "adapt or die". The unfortunate factor today is that pay websites, webcams etc. are now in a downtrend as well, making it much more difficult for a girl to successfully "adapt" using these methods today than it was in 1998. The really unfortunate factor is that today if a girl does not have the chromosomes or social skills to make it into the upscale "show clubs", there is increasingly only one route open for her to "adapt" in order to continue earning enough money to make dancing worthwhile.

    I presume that the "sick and tired of hearing about ..." aspect is somewhat related to similar comments from other dancers on the subject of extras, poor earnings etc. Yes the girls who are lucky enough to have the chromosomes and social skills to make it into the upscale "show clubs" have been the least affected by all of the downturn factors, and therefore are not very affected themselves by increasing extras or decreasing earnings. I can understand why listening to other dancers who aren't able to work under the same upscale "show club" conditions might be perceived as whining. All I can say is that you deserve to enjoy your good fortune, but you could at least recognize that the majority of other dancers aren't anywhere near as fortunate.

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    Veteran Member Kianna_Jayde's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    I have to agree about the slow rise of making money. I started dancing in 1999, and the money was beautiful then. I never walked out with less than $400 or more. Now, I don't know what's going on. And now, everyone wants to be a dancer these days, WHY?? ??? ???
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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    Melonie, Harmony Theatre only closed in 1998. And for the record, I don't work at an upscale club, or at any club at the moment now for that matter. I maintain that "extras" in a strip club are old news. See this article from Maxim 3 1/2 years ago: http://www.maximonline.com/grit/arti...ticle_364.html

    I could go on but I'm too tired now.

  14. #14
    Kaiyla
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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    How ironic. My best friend (also a dancer) and I were discussing this topic last night. Ever since I began dancing in 2000, as soon as I come home from work, I write down on a calandar what I make each night. Well my friend and I had our calanders out last night and we were looking at "the good old days." Yup we were being bad and nostalgic . But both of us did some math and found that this particular year, our incomes have dropped 60%. It sucks. Even last year was better that this. I remember how I used to be able to take a long tropical vacation every three months, pay all my bills weeks ahead of time, splurge on whatever I wanted. Now it's like, vacation, what is that? Havent had one of those in a year. New clothes? That's a rare treat now. I have a TON of bills and student loans and high utility bills, so just getting on top of those and saving money to get out of the business is my only realistic goal right now. I know I'm bitching but it does suck. Sorry.

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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    I have to agree about the slow rise of making money. I started dancing in 1999, and the money was beautiful then. I never walked out with less than $400 or more. Now, I don't know what's going on. And now, everyone wants to be a dancer these days, WHY?? ??? ???
    Kianna, you've hit upon yet another fundamental factor in declining dance club earnings - however this factor really only has come into play in the last 2-3 years. It boils down to the fact that many many experienced employees have been laid off from decent paying corporate jobs in the past 2-3 years. After searching unsuccessfully for other jobs which pay the same as the one they lost, many of these experienced people have come to the conclusion that equal paying jobs are just not going to be found. In reaction, the laid-off experienced people then start taking lesser paying jobs. These lesser paying jobs were typically available to inexperienced new employees in the past, but if experienced people are willing to take them then inexperienced new people won't be hired.

    This creates a situation where a girl graduating from high school last year basically has a choice of going to work for WalMart, MacDonalds, or a local convenience store which pays minimum wage or very close to it. Compared to these jobs, dancing for even $100 a night looks like a major step up to these young girls.

  16. #16
    Pamela
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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    Well you don't need an education to dance. And dancers come and go. It's easy money for those who are addicts of some sort, also nightly money, not weekly checks to wait for. The ladies who are prostitutes can get hired, and do their thing in VIP's. So many benefits for all these girls who want to get a job NOW, money tonite, and sex.

    Thats the part of the job that i saw slowly changing. Not into that scene. I won't get busted because "X" wants to suck cock on my 'working time.

    Pamela

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    Unfortunately, I have to take a different viewpoint from Brigette in that I don't believe it's possible to "put the Genie back in the bottle". Too many things affecting the exotic dancing industry have permanently changed over the past few years to ever allow a profitable return to "show business". There is simply not enough incentive remaining for customers to come to average clubs and spend lots of money with the sole expectation of seeing a topless or nude "girl next door" dancing 6 feet away.
    No no no - I do not think it is possible to put the genie back in the bottle. I do not think we're ever going to be able to convince average customers to buy air dances again because we put on a good show. What I mean is that we can make a LITTLE extra effort with our appearance/image in order to stand out from the crowd of girls doing the same old routine everyone's been doing for years. It doesn't have to be complicated or elaborate - just not the same old tired thing customers have been watching for so long. I do think alot of customers really are bored with the usual grind, and they do get excited when they see something even a little bit different. I have seen it with my own eyes. They are no longer impressed with a girl who just shucks off her standard tight dress and commences grinding with a bored look on her face.

    I'm not saying quit grinding or gyrating or whatever - but making a little effort to use different costumes, simple theme outfits, removing the outfit in a more seductive way than shoving it to the floor, playing with the guys instead of just sitting there and bouncing on their laps with a bored or blank expression. I am in no way trying to imply we can or should try to stop lapdancing - just upgrade the quality of it a bit to regain a little interest. How many guys do we hear at work and read on these boards, complaining about the bored girls onstage or on their laps? How many of those guys might be a little more loose with their wallets if they see a little more effort on our parts?

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    Guess what... other people are suffering from a slow economy besides dancers; and when the economy slows the men spend their money in what they deem to be more important areas of survival besides lap dances. Also as to the survival of clubs and the money possible to make even in a good economy....there is the supply and demand concept. Club managers, who I commonly refer to as high class pimps because they charge $50 to each dancer per night to work in the club, hire as many girls as they can get away with in order to line their pockets. They try to run as many girls as possible....this of course brings in a lot of girls who don't look good in clothes, much less naked....and these are the girls who are ruining it for the really class and beautiful girls. These are the ones who are doing their little dirty work for next to nothing and the real dancers suffer for it. A pretty girl is not going down for peanuts and her money suffers because she won't and she feels cheapened like a common streetwalker if she falls in line with theory of sex for money, even if she makes more because she looks better....her purpose as she sees it is to tease and inspire your manhood so that when you get home to your tired sexual relationship with your wife, you are renewed and vigorous and imagining perhaps you are with a gorgeous woman instead of a wife who has forgotten that a good looking body is part of her responsibility in keeping the interest going with her man. Eventually a pretty girl with half a brain figures it out.....sex?...mandatory in making a living?.....answer? Go to work for an escort and make real money.

  19. #19
    Pamela
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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    Baron i have a feeling that you may not have ever been inside the doors of an upscale club. Or understand that men will be men. As women will be women. Meaning, it's a 'job.'

    As for the man who goes home and screws his wife while thinking about some stripper..Well i would not worry too much about that. Men can go home screw the wife and think about his "EX WIFE" !!! Lol.

    PS i never had a $50 charge per night. You sound like my ex, probably are. Now put the mag. down. LMAO. Hit the club and get ya one, again, maybe this time she will be clean!!!! TTFN.

    Pamela

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    Veteran Member livenudegirlsunite's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron
    Club managers, who I commonly refer to as high class pimps because they charge $50 to each dancer per night to work in the club, hire as many girls as they can get away with in order to line their pockets. They try to run as many girls as possible....this of course brings in a lot of girls who don't look good in clothes, much less naked....and these are the girls who are ruining it for the really class and beautiful girls. These are the ones who are doing their little dirty work for next to nothing and the real dancers suffer for it. A pretty girl is not going down for peanuts and her money suffers because she won't and she feels cheapened like a common streetwalker
    I have seen so many clubs that will hire fat girls. It really is annoying as hell. No one is perfect, but my god, what guy wants to pay $20 to go into a club and have a fugly sit on his lap. These chicks won't move and it makes it impossible for anyone else to have an opportunity to make $. I can't tell you how many times I have been to work and the dancers out number the customers 3-1. The guys get even more annoyed when 60% of the dancers are total fuglies. The managers don't care about the customers or the dancers. I don't think that managers should be allowed to charge a house fee. I know how much everyone hates it when I say that. But I do think that it contributes to the downfall of the industry. I have only been dancing for a little over 2 years, so I wasn't around back in the good old days. And yes -I am one of the many who started dancing because I have been pushed out of the regular job market, because of the un-American corporate aristocracy that is running this country into the ground.
    Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. - M Rivero

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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    Quote Originally Posted by livenudegirlsunite
    I have seen so many clubs that will hire fat girls. It really is annoying as hell. No one is perfect, but my god, what guy wants to pay $20 to go into a club and have a fugly sit on his lap. These chicks won't move and it makes it impossible for anyone else to have an opportunity to make $. I can't tell you how many times I have been to work and the dancers out number the customers 3-1. The guys get even more annoyed when 60% of the dancers are total fuglies. .
    THANK YOU!

    a lot of girls think that being in the pretty minority makes it easier for them to make money, but it doesn't. if a guy walks into a club, there's a cow on stage, and he sees two or three other girls, all of whom are cows, he's not going to stick around to weed out the one pretty girl who is there. he's going to think the place sucks, and then he's going to tell all of his friends the place sucks, and then words spreads around town that club x has the worst dancers in town.

    i understand that there are different standards of beauty, but when a girl is clearly out of shape for her body type, bone structure, etc., she should be asked to work out and keep herself in shape. there are girls i've worked with for only the past four months who's beer bellies have swelled to twice their size just as i've been there, and management says nothing but "now you know some of you girls are going to have to lose some weight" instead of addressing the problem directly to the girls who are busted.

  22. #22
    Pamela
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    Default Re: The Peak Years of the Buisness vs. Now

    Late 80's!!!!! Best money ever made stripping. And this was ONLY stage dancing! Today you have to give ALOT more to make what a stage dancer did then.

    Pamela

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