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Thread: Where did all the money go??

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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Where did all the money go??

    There are obvious answers to this question...the poor economy, new strict anti contact laws, clubs putting too many dancers on the schedule, extremely high stage fees/tip outs etc.

    But my thought is that more and more dancers are getting fed up with the poor earning potential of this business, and I am hearing a lot of dancers rapidly getting disgruntled and fed up with all of the BS.

    I like dancing. I like working in bars and I like the people I work with. I still can earn a decent living as a dancer because I know where to go to do so, and what clubs work for me.

    I was speaking frankly to a club owner I know about the recent expo in Vegas. She told me that the demise of this business is because of the club owners. They will eventually kill it for everyone because they are willing to allow illegal things to go on in their club. Some of these club owners even encourage illegal activity amongst their dancers and staff. The lawyers know that there will be nothing the clubs can do if the owners on down don't enforce the laws and keep things legal for all involved.

    The club I was working at last night had 11 girls working. No big deal, right?? Most nights there are less then 20 customers. So what happens next? The girls get desperate for cash and do whatever it takes to get their bills paid. 8 customers walked through the door last Wednesdays. Did everyone make money?? Hell no. the girls at this club are all in the 9-10 range. Should they be reduced to begging for dances?

    I know that traveling works for me, but it does get tiring after a while. Besides, we are hearing from all over the country that there is no money to be made, even in places where there once was great money in the not so distant past. So say all you are out is round trip airfare and a weeks worth of Motel 6 stay, you still have lost money. I can see why girls are hesitant to risk traveling to greener pastures.

    To top all of this off, the guys are pretty much bored with what they are seeing in the clubs. Ho, hum another beautiful naked girl, just like the other 200 beautiful naked girls strutting around the stage, or on that billboard or on my computer screen or in my mailbox etc.

    So here is where I suggest that we brainstorm on how we as a small group of people can have some influence on this industry. We love what we do and want to protect this form of expression from extinction, yes? We wouldn't be here sharing if we didn't want to make things better for others, so here is your chance.

    It would be great to hear what you all have to say.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Veteran Member xmarx52's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    Hi Paris,

    I wish I had a good answer for you because I know that this is an important issue for so many of the ladies here who I really care about, yourself included of course.

    A huge part of it is the economy. My business has suffered in the last couple years, lots of jobs lost in my area, never to return. That trickles down on all of us. If blue collar guys lose their job, they don't come in my store, If I don't make money I don't go to a club etc etc, it is all a circle and I have no idea how to stop it from going around.

    The best advice I can offer is keep thinking of ways to make yourself stand out from the crowd, and with your looks that should happen anyway.

    Wish I had better ideas but maybe just by keeping this topic at the top I have helped a bit and someone else will offer you something more.
    Best of luck
    Xmarx52
    Anyone with a memory should be very humble.

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    Veteran Member livenudegirlsunite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    I still think that house fees and mandatory tipouts are a big part of the problem. I know that whenever I make reference to this problem I make a lot of people mad. I do think that it is so important to be able to voice opinions though and have these debates. Paris - you said that the girls in your club were all 9-10. A lot of clubs will hire dancers that are very overweight and unattrattive. The only reason that these clubs are able to stay in business is because of the house fees and mandatory tip outs. A lot of guys are afraid to go to clubs because they don't want to pay $20 to see a bunch of fat ugs whose pimps gave them the money to go into the clubs and find some johns. The only way that this or any business can succeed is to encourage true competition. True competition is not about who has the money to work; it is about who has what the customer wants.
    The other huge problem is the fact that clubs not only allow loitering, but some actually encourage it. This encourages pimps to hang out in the clubs and not spend any money at all; which in turn encourages regular guys to do the same.
    Those are the two biggest problems that I have noticed in my year of dancing.
    Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. - M Rivero

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    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    Everything has its season. You can look at:

    Changing attitudes about nudity.
    Changing attitudes about sex.
    Availability of sex-oriented material.
    Saturation of supply (which lowers demand).
    Depressed economy.
    Corporate/owner avarice.
    Overemphasis on profits.
    Lack of attention to consumer demands.
    Lack of attention to worker needs.
    Normal fluctuations in any industry.

    I still go. I still have a wonderful time. I run into ladies who seem to enjoy their work and the money they make. But it's certainly changing.

    It's always good to have a backup plan, with any job.

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    I think one small thing we dancers can do to help regenerate interest among customers is change our act(s). IMO, it is pretty much impossible to really get anything changed as far as the way clubs are run, etc. The owners will do what they will - if we stir up too much trouble, we most likely wind up causing problems like what the girls in California have right now, which is apparently why livenudegirlsunite eventually left CA to dance in LV.

    Anyway, back to my point. Paris you mention that guys are bored with 'another beautiful naked girl' dancing onstage or on their laps. I'm thinking if we put a little energy and effort into creating different acts/images/performances, many guys will regain some interest. Seriously, this point you touched on is oh-so-true. I've been in many many many clubs, and the thing that strikes me the most, is that once you've seen a few clubs and the girls dancing there, you've pretty much seen them all. Of course we girls are all unique and have something a little different to offer, but I really think we've all pretty much gotten too generic. It basically goes like this: Put on the same high heels everyone else wears, some tight skimpy dress supplied by the same company(ies) every other dancer buys from (all stipper outfits are basically VERY similar), get on stage and play the same music every night, dance the same routine(s) every night, remove dress, continue same routine, collect tips, get offstage, ask for lapdances (giving everyone pretty much the same dance), back onstage, etc. From a customer standpoint, I can see how many might be bored with spending their money on us!

    I used to do alot of themed sets and almost never wore 'stripper dresses'. Over the years though, my style evolved into that of most of us - stripper dresses, etc. Granted we all have our own style, but from a customer standpoing, the variations are pretty subtle. If we expend a little effort to make the variations more dramatic, I'm thinking guys will take notice. Maybe some of those who sit bored in the corner will wake up and crack open the wallet.

    I know it doesn't seem like it could make much of a difference, but we might surprise ourselves. I did a unique show of my own last Saturday, and the club was pretty dead for a Saturday (as we all seem to be seeing just now). But by the middle of my first song, the whole club was awake and at attention. Got some momentum going, and alot of people off their seats. Not necessarily because I did such a fabulous show, but because it was different from the usual bump and grind and I was clearly having alot of fun with it. People talked about it the rest of the night. I'm sure some of those customers left and talked about it to friends, or they'll at least remember it later when they are wondering what to do on a Saturday night! I think we girls can do alot to renew customer interest in us - after all, it is US they're coming to see!

    Livenudegirlsunite, I really really don't think unionization and converting to employees will make things better for us. The attitude of owners is such that they will do everything to make sure any efforts we make in that direction will bite US in the ass, not them. What's more, they are the ones with the money to get all the 'backdoor' influence they want when it comes to getting laws passed, policies changed. The general public doesn't give a rat's ass what a bunch of 'lowly' strippers want/need in order to have a decent working environment. Most folks figure if we will 'stoop' to do this job, we deserve whatever crap is thrown at us. And finally, so many strippers are just not interested, too competitive, too lazy, not in it for long, uncommitted, etc etc etc, such that it will be basically impossible to get enough girls together to afford any REAL, LASTING, POSITIVE change for strippers in general.

    Anyway, I think we can improve our situation, but more in the way renewing customer interest rather than effecting POSITIVE industry standards concerning policy and employment practices. Not so long ago, strippers were perfectly ok with paying high stage fees and tipouts, because we had the business to justify it. I know there are alot of other factors that we can do nothing about, which negatively affect our bottom lines, but that doesn't mean we can't do anything at all!

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Veteran Member xmarx52's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    Wow Bridgette, great reply!

    I found it very interesting the thought that if a girl looks at this as something she will only do "for a few years" or to get through school or whatever, then why should she care about the long term ramifications of the business or anything she does. I never thought of that way of looking at it before.
    Anyone with a memory should be very humble.

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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    The djs dont do enough to get the crowds going anymore and at the clubs I work in the dancers walk back and forth on stage and do nothing,thats why I dont go on stage anymore,just work the room and do dances and aslo most clubs were I work dont permit floor work,When I worked at my local club the girls put on trmendous shows and the crowd would cheer,noone pays attention to the stage or anything else at the other places,though I wasnt alloud at doll house I would occasionaly jump into a split and just that little bit of effort would get more of a reaction than the girls just walking around,they always new when I did it though because the comotion in the room and the manager would run out and scold me.

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    Senior Member smurfalicious's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    I know this is getting off on a different tangent, but in regard to the "something different" thing, I tried that last night, didn't go so well.

    I work in a reasonably hickish town, so last night I figured it might perk up my mood to bring my chaps, and cowboy hat. I have a cute little pink gingham top I wear with it, and damnit, I look cute! I have a whole CD full of fun, upbeat, rowdy, drinkin' country to go along with it. Usually use "The Shake" and "Bobbie Ann Mason." Those two songs, for the uncountrified are so fun and fitting.

    Well, it was total crap last night and so I asked the DJ how long he was planning to run two stages. I'm nice enough not to make another girl dance to country. I told him why I was asking, and he flat out *snapped* at me, "I'm not going to lose a crowd because *you* want to play country!!!" Whooooa coyote! What crowd, the punkass marines who spent all their money on booze?

    So there's no sense in trying to do anything different because it seems the general rule is play the same mundane crap, for fear you might upset some twirps with no money. *sigh* The costume lady has this really cute cowgirl outfit, no sense buying that, eh?

    love and cookies
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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    Oh dear, that is bs!

    First, the DJ was probably just trying to squeeze an extra tip out of you to play your music. Second, at many clubs, country IS banned, so think of other music that would go with your cowgirl outfit. Two I know right off the bat are Legend of a Cowgirl by Imani Coppola, and Cowboy by Kid Rock. The Kid Rock song works pretty well for that with most crowds.

    Third, don't give up just because some asshole DJ snapped at you one time! Do you quit working when one customer says no to your offer for a dance? NO! Same thing here - just come back with another approach / idea. And there are LOTS of different theme shows you can do, so be creative. If you want more ideas, come here and ask, some of us have alot of ideas.

    Finally Smurf, the general rule is definitely NOT to play the same old mundance crap over and over. That may be what your DJ would prefer because he's a lazy schmuck, but you can bring in all sorts of stuff to use if you feel like it. Heck, you might even start a trend!

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    God/dess Bella21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    (I'm talking San Diego here since this is all I know about.) You know, it's very interesting that all these posts are popping up about business being bad at the same time. I think I've noticed it too. All the new laws and unimpressed (because it's ALL over now) guys = depressed girls. It's just such a downer to repetably NOT be making money. I've also noticed that the DJ's seem to be, hence, less into it too. Not pumping up crowds as much. I personally feel that the owners have too much power. They almost are like pimps, which they should not be. I also agree with what was said above about mandatory tipping. I just found out that the floor walker at my club does not get paid, it's all tips. Is that gay or what?? THEY can't control how good the dancers do. I wish BBB would keep a closer watch on these owners or something. URGH maybe I'm just venting.
    If you think school is hard, try being stupid.

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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    Okay, so I'm going to start working on my theme shows the clubs I work at are more then willing to help out in that aspect. My husband and I came up with a great idea tonight. I'm going to start painting up with liquid latex in various different patterns on my body. He down loaded a picture of flames (like for auto decals) and we are going to turn it into a stencil that I can just paint right on me. Then do a fire show on the night I have flames painted all over my body, how cool would that be?

    Doing something like that has renewed my vigor for my job and has totally gotten me out of my funk. Does anyone know of a good mix for flaming torches that doesn't smoke too badly? Most of the time the smoke is pretty bad if it is in a smallish club.

    Now my brain is really cranking! Thanks guys and keep the ideas coming.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Featured Member Devastating Divyne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    I am thoroughly convinced that it all "RANNED AWAY". Out of the last several weekends I've had two great nites with most being the low end of the average spectrum and unexciting. Its not just me though, everyone at the club is feeling it and talking about it. I think that perhaps its time for me to give this particular club a break and just work around. I haven't lost weight, I've actually toned and look smaller than I did before even though I'm about the same size. I think that when the customers of a club constantly tell you that you should try one of the other clubs in town b/c you'd make more money there that perhaps you should. I've been hearing it for months and its been consistent with my earnings fluctuations.
    "Come what may although I often say realities come from dreams, but approach all lies with open eyes because NOthing in this world is EVER ALL it seems."

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    Veteran Member livenudegirlsunite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    Bridgette - I don't think that becoming regular employees would be a good thing either. I like the fact that I have control over working whenever I want to. I have no problem with working on 100% commission. I truely believe that paying to work is a huge problem and it does have a negative impact on the industry as a whole. It allows the owners to hire any old fat ug ho off of the street which is bad for customers and dancers. I do like the idea of dancers trying to move away from lap dances and back to stage shows. However, in Las Vegas that would never work. Most of the clubs out here have anywhere from 100-250 dancers a night. The clubs will continue to bring in as many girls as they can because they make most of their money off of the dancers. It would be impossible for most dancers to make money off of the stage in most clubs due to the overscheduling of dancers which is encouraged by the house fees.
    I think that we are coming up with some great ideas here. Keep it going.
    Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. - M Rivero

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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    I browse a couple of other sex industry websites. Here in NYC "underground" clubs seem to be popular. Taken from one of the other sites:

    The"... "parties evolved
    as a response to Guiliani's attack on the Strip Club industry in NYC. ,
    particularly the shutting down of "...". More guys come to
    the parties to get full contact lap dances from the dancers, than come to
    VIP. Many of the higher mainstream quality dancers, which attend our
    parties, DON'T VIP. WE WANT THOSE DANCERS THERE. However, you'll get more
    mileage from them "..." than you'll ever get at a mainstream
    club without having to pay the $300-$500 Champagne Room charges those
    clubs usually impose."

    I don't know if underground clubs are common in other cities. But maybe they are and guys are going there. It sounds like you can get whatever you want for a cheaper price, so why go to a regular strip club?

    Plus since it is underground they are probably less likely to be raided since the police don't know about them.

    Are underground clubs a form of competition you mainstream dancers are sleeping on?

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    God/dess Lena's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    When I started dancing it was at "underground" clubs since I was underage and they didn't check ID or care.

    Definitely not a good scene.

    Lena



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    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    One solution is that I think a change in club atmosphere is in order. I think one of the unique problems with adult nightclubs is that its target demographic is only 49% of the population. So I think a good way to improve business (not to mention help debunk the stereotypes that strippers and strip clubs get associated with) is to make it more palatable to that other 51% (if you know what I mean).

    Over Columbus Day weekend, I drove down to Oklahoma City and decided to check out a club called Night Trips (part of a statewide three club chain) that I've been hearing some buzz about. I arrived Saturday night and the place was standing room only. What was unique about the crowd though was the makeup of customers. Now I've seen female customers before, but at this place I'd estimate that a solid one quarter of the patrons were female. Unlike a lot of clubs, Night Trips actively encourages that couples and female customers are welcome in both their yellow pages ad and their website, and even entices the ladies with free cover.

    And I'm not talking lesbians, but striaght ordinary gals from college aged to middle aged (some were better looking than the dancers), mostly with their significant others in tow, but some just seemingly out with their friends, both male and female, just to have a good time like they would at any other type of nightclub. They were tipping the dancers on stage right along side the guys, and the dancers were making some decent tip money on stage. Yes, there were lap dances available, but they were very light contact compared to other places that I've been, and other clubs that I went to while in OKC that didn't have near the patronage that this place did.

    I thought what I witnessed might have been the result of a weekend surge, but by God on Monday I went back and it was crowded again. Granted Monday Night Football was on, but even after the game was over the crowd seemed to linger. Not as many gals on Monday, but still more than I'm used to seeing.

    Much like any other strip club, there was an erotic l component involved, but unlike most clubs I've been to (even in Las Vegas) there was a high emphasis on fun, and I think a lot of clubs need to improve in that department. I went to two other clubs and I thought the dancer attractiveness was about even at all three. So I thought that it was rather peculiar in these jaded times that the club with the lowest mileage lap dances was far and away getting the most patons.

    Granted, I think with too many "fat tony" types in charge of clubs running their establishments more like mob enterprises than legitimate businesses, improving the image and financial picture of the industry is going to be an uphill battle. After what I saw this weekend though, I do hold out that there's some hope.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    Luke: There is at least one underground club that I know of here, and apparently alot of money can be made there, but it's not dancing. Perhaps in other cities there are such clubs where girls can make good money by dancing, but my club is the only one here where prostitution isn't the norm. If I were interested in that line of work, I'd be hanging out at some of the many upscale hotels right down the street from me, rather than busting my ass onstage.

    Livenudegirlsunite: I have lived and worked in LV also. I remember very clearly those 250 girls who showed up every weekend night, and the nonexistent stage earnings, and the many many customers who paid the $20 cover, nursed the drinks included in the cover, bought MAYBE one dance, tipped no one, then exited. I wasn't really saying that stage shows are entirely the way to go for everyone. I guess I was a bit unclear - I was trying to say that perhaps if we try creating varied image/personality altogether, we could generate a little new interest from customers who are bored with seeing the same old bump and grind they've been seeing from us for years now. Not just on stage - one can just as easily create an offstage image and work it. Something that really reflects your own personality / fetish / desires - that could make it more fun for dancer as well as customer.

    I don't like paying to work either, but I think that goes along with what many of us have said about increasing levels of contact....once you let the genie out of the bottle, it's practically impossible to get him back in. When I started dancing years ago, we paid to work, and at least in my neck of the woods at that time, the clubs were much more picky about the girls they hired. Even as recent as 5 years ago, I watched managers tell girls at the door, after barely glancing at them, that they didn't 'fit the criteria' - and those were girls many clubs would be happy to have. Now it seems that save for a handful of the most elite clubs, there are basicaly no hiring standards. I know what you mean about any old hog being allowed to work as long as she's willing to pay the fees. Most clubs are doing that now, and the results are decreased customer interest and lower earnings potential for everyone. This is why I say, if some or many of us make the effort to really make ourselves appear to be the 'fantasy girls', it may help matters, at least for our own bottom lines!

    Paris, I don't know if you saw my post about a show I did last week, under the 'Dancing like a feature' thread on this board. I used liquid latex and fire - it was a BIG hit! I highly encourage you to get creative with that stuff, and others, especially since you've been posting about moving back to stage dancing entirely. Good luck with that!

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    Bridgette:

    I was not recommending that anyone work in "underground" clubs. I was just offering this as an answer to the question "where did all the money go?"

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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    Dr. Catfish....I don't agree. I don't think women help our business much. They don't have that problem where they lose all common sense when they get horny. Okay, yes we do, but it takes a lot more than an erotic show to get to us.

    I really think it's a niche market and you have to cater to those in it well....deapth, not breadth.

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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    Dr.Catfish and I come from the same area (BTW, love the avatar Dr.Catfish). The club I danced at in KS was standing room on Fri. & Sat. nights, sounding a lot like the club he mentioned in OKC. It was a popular place for all. There were lots of couples in groups, and then your regular SC patrons. It's a Wichita custom to get the female customers on stage and basically molest them. We made bank on stage because of that. That also brought in more guys to witness the "normal girl" getting topless on stage and ravaged by us. It was fun. After our stage set we walk around the room and ask everyone for tips. I know the females aren't good for very many lapdances, but on a Friday or Saturday night I would make $300-$400 just in $1,$5, & $10 tips. Add the lapdances and drink money and it is a pretty good night. In a place like Wichita, KS, there is not much to do for fun. SC's became the "in" place to be. I understand what Dr. Catfish is saying, but wouldn't be able to put up with the ladies every night.

    I know about all the problems female customers bring in. Being in Vegas I avoid them unless they approach me. It's a different story here. It seems like they are here to be seen, sip their martini's, and tear us apart piece by piece. The few girls whose company I've enjoyed are customers who are dancers from other areas. They(we) are hot and fun! But of coarse, we know that.

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    Featured Member Devastating Divyne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    As far as underground clubs go not all of them are about sex and illicit activity. The term underground is probably not the best terminology to use b/c a regular nightclub that has strippers on a given nite is considered an underground club in a manner of speaking. However, I have heard of parties in my city,and actually read about several of them going on in LA and on Rodeo Drive, where a snotty upscale bar closes for a private party. The word is spread by word of mouth and a number of dancers, like 7-20, depending on the number of partiers come and do private dances. The bar still gets a cut of the cash bar which is run, and dancers make more money working for a crowd which is there solely to buy lap dances without all the club bullshit. The girls pay the promoter like $25 bucks to do the party and keep all their money, plus get a split of the bar. They charge the guys a membership or promotion fee, or will allow free admission with drink minimums. Smaller number of girls, better type of clientele means more money for the girls.
    Some "underground" clubs are unlicensed establishments of any kind, usually a rented building or some such thing where guys and girls go to find "fun" for the evening and typically sex and drug use, aside from regular dancing, is common occurrence.
    "Come what may although I often say realities come from dreams, but approach all lies with open eyes because NOthing in this world is EVER ALL it seems."

  23. #22
    Veteran Member livenudegirlsunite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    I agree with Kobi on the female customers. I worked at a club in Hollywood where it was common to have a crowd of 50%male & 50%female on Fridays and Saturdays. Women do tip on stage though and most guys don't. Because we have to rely on selling lap dances as our main source of income, females are generally not good for business. Wives and girlfriends generally prevent us from being able to make any serious VIP money.
    This whole underground club thing sounds great; especially with all of the BS in LA right now. It would be very important to know the other dancers before agreeing to work in one of those parties. I would not want to wind up in a situation where I'm competing with a bunch of hookers.
    Bridgette - I always like hearing what you have to say even though we don't always agree. I know that it would be pretty much impossible to go up against all of the "fat-Tony" types of guys who run the majority of the clubs. It is true that these guys have major money and major connections that we could never come close to. I do think that competition from "ligit" underground clubs could be influential. Of course it would be very tough to really get something like that going with out it turning into a brothel type of situation.
    Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. - M Rivero

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    LNGU: Yeah I've come to enjoy reading your posts too. I'd be very interested in the type of underground club Divyne described. Heck, I think some of us girls could possibly be very successful starting something like that rather than trying to start a 'mainstream' club. Might be a good idea for some of us entrepreneurial types to think about....hum, wheels are turning now.......

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  25. #24
    Featured Member Devastating Divyne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did all the money go??

    I was looking for one of the articles where I saw this in California, I think one of them came off of the front page of StripperWeb. N-E-Way, I do remember though that you can't have strippers in a regular club or bar without applying for a special event permit or something. The time which they are vaild varies, but doesn't sound like a bad thing to do once a month or so.
    "Come what may although I often say realities come from dreams, but approach all lies with open eyes because NOthing in this world is EVER ALL it seems."

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