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  1. #76
    God/dess kitana's Avatar
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    OK Dallas pleas don't get upset but you said it yourself the Bible has been translated into over 2000 different languages, so how do we know exactly what we are reading in english is what it really says? There are tons of Jewish words that just can not be translated into english and vise/versa. I mean look at the Jehovah's Witnesses for goodness sakes, isn't the name of God supposta be unpronanceable(sp)? I simply choose not to believe in a book that may not be accurate. Along with the fact that is has been proven that there are missing texts out of the Bible that will never be shown or added or "found". I mean really, come on. Where are those missing texts anyway? For example where are the texts about Jesus and his growing up? In the Bible he goes from 12 to 30ish. And what's up with King(we all know who) changing the Bible to suit his own purposes?! I just refuse to follow some preacher and his idea of what is going on.

    I am more of a spiritulist in that aspect. But hey, for all the girls who want to dance and keep their religion, I'm all for it as long as you don't try to save my damned soul. (and yes I have heard that before; just 'cause of the way I dress and the music I listen to). Go figure cause you wear all black and dance to Type O-, or Ozzy they think you're into Satan.
    Kitana
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarlett_vancouver link=board=1;threadid=789;start=msg127841#msg12784 1 date=1088147369
    too lazy to read the whole thread, but has there been a link to yet? omg it's a riot. It's all about helping strippers 'find the light'!

    best quote: "ain't NO sugar daddy that can compare to MY Daddy"! (ref. christ).

    There's even a section that teaches customers how to 'save' us!




    [/quote



    Well, I think this org is very drastic. I know the girl in Denver who "preaches" to other lost dancers. She is listed on the site as the Colorado outreach person. They have helped a few girls turn their lives around which is their main focus. They want to help us poor, sick, lost women leave the world of stripping and turn to a life in Jesus Christ. When I was new into sobriety, I contacted her. We met for lunch and all she did was talk about her own life. She did not ask me how she could help me. Now, this person and I had been friends and co-workers in the late 80's and man was she a money maker! She is married to a local lawyer and has taken on this cause. As a stay at home mom, her life is nice and plush and I couldn't see her putting a whole lot of effort into helping me! As we sat there, me in my sweats and her in her nice suit and rolex, I began to see how their program might be a little cultish. If they help you, you have to give up everything that you own in the world. You go to live in one of their houses, study the Bible and in a year, are free to leave. They will provide everything for you. Fuck that!
    If you read the manual, it talks about us as if we are pure evil. I don't know how people who give so much could be evil. While I did agree with being a little hard and having life experiences that are bad, working a 12-step program has worked for me.
    Big D

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitana link=board=1;threadid=789;start=msg127943#msg12794 3 date=1088171103
    OK Dallas pleas don&#039;t get upset but you said it yourself the Bible has been translated into over 2000 different languages, so how do we know exactly what we are reading in english is what it really says?

    Kitana - this means that it is available in over 2,000 different languages.

    There are tons of Jewish words that just can not be translated into english and vise/versa. I mean look at the Jehovah&#039;s Witnesses for goodness sakes, isn&#039;t the name of God supposta be unpronanceable(sp)?

    JW&#039;s name for Jesus Christ is Jehovah.

    I simply choose not to believe in a book that may not be accurate. Along with the fact that is has been proven that there are missing texts out of the Bible that will never be shown or added or "found". I mean really, come on.

    Kit - this is your choice. The Bible is written in honest and candid language. The events covered are linked to specific people and dates. I have not heard of missing texts.

    Where are those missing texts anyway? For example where are the texts about Jesus and his growing up? In the Bible he goes from 12 to 30ish. And what&#039;s up with King(we all know who) changing the Bible to suit his own purposes?! I just refuse to follow some preacher and his idea of what is going on.

    I don&#039;t follow a preacher either. I lead a life guided by Jesus Christ who is a much better decision maker than I. JC who restored my health and gave me back my sanity. Have you never had a spiritual experience? I am not trying to save your soul, only you can do that, if you feel the need. This particular forum was for Christian dancers to talk about their love of Jesus Christ. As in all of the other threads, you are welcome to participate. I am sorry to have cause you discomfort. Big D

    I am more of a spiritulist in that aspect. But hey, for all the girls who want to dance and keep their religion, I&#039;m all for it as long as you don&#039;t try to save my damned soul. (and yes I have heard that before; just &#039;cause of the way I dress and the music I listen to). Go figure cause you wear all black and dance to Type O-, or Ozzy they think you&#039;re into Satan.
    Kitana

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    Banned Madcap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitana link=board=1;threadid=789;start=msg127943#msg12794 3 date=1088171103
    isn&#039;t the name of God supposta be unpronanceable(sp)?
    It&#039;s pretty funky from looking at it on paper at least. YHWH.

    YHWH????

    How on earth is that pronounced???


    ("Yaweh", is the pronounciation, &#039;Jehova&#039; comes from a mistranslation of YHWH)

    Not to mention that the words "Jesus" and "Christ" are both Greek titles, and that no-one had a surname until around the 14th century... The Philosopher we know as Jesus was actually named "Yeshua" (That&#039;s the pronunciation, the actual spelling is a bit longer and escapes me as i type), it&#039;s a varuant of Joshua and a common name at the time.

    Just FYI.

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    The YHWH or "Yaweh" is just the English transliteration of the Hebrew word used in the Torah as one of the "names" of God. It was never intended to be the "name" of God. At this point in time supposedly, no one knows the "real" name. Apparently it died out with the Kabbalistic rabbis that used it (it was used as sort of a magic word in mystical practices). And no, I&#039;m not talking about Maddona&#039;s so called Kabbalah.
    BTW, I&#039;m Jewish...



    Because there ain't no tits on the radio

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    Yeah, well, i can&#039;t argue with that.

    God supposedly has a zillion names. The true (REAL) one being so long that a human could supposedly not pronounce it within their lifetime. But so far as i have heard YHWH was the closest.

    Now, there are probably others as well. But "Jehova" is not and never was a name for God (There is no "J" in the Hebrew alphabet for starts)

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    Nope, no J in the Hebrew alphabet, but the "Y" has been converted over to the J in many other instances. Joshua was really Y&#039;hoshua and Benjamin, Benyamin.
    I&#039;m getting off topic aren&#039;t I. ower:



    Because there ain't no tits on the radio

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    "Y&#039;hoshua"

    Hey that might be the spelling i was looking for for "Yeshua!" I&#039;ve seen it spelled weirder, but that looks right!

  9. #84
    Featured Member Juliette_deSade's Avatar
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    That&#039;s how they pronounced it in Bible study. . .Yeshua.

    According to Christianity, we all fall short of the glory of God. No one can match the impeccability of Jesus. It&#039;s hopelesss. The key to salvation is our faith. Good deeds won&#039;t get you into heaven, badness won&#039;t send you to hell. You have to deal with this little insignificant blue-green planet like every other person.

    On this plane, I strip to make money. I have to "sin" just to stay alive, because I&#039;m no Messiah. Reality demands that I do what I must to pay my bills and make money. I feel no guilt. Sometimes disgust in the men I dance for. They fall short too, but if the man playing with your tits and pissing you off believes in the power of the Christ, he is saves too. Everybody in the world is a little fucked up. Taht&#039;s what redemption was for.

    This is just my viewpoint on the subject. I know I am lacking. But it takes all kinds to make the world go &#039;round.

    The Texas Pin-up Stripteuse!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Juliette_deSade link=board=1;threadid=789;start=msg128101#msg12810 1 date=1088192224
    The key to salvation is our faith. Good deeds won&#039;t get you into heaven, badness won&#039;t send you to hell.
    That is a major point of contention that i have with christianity. James (My namesake) and Paul went around the block over that in the first century, James says works, Paul says faith, it&#039;s a debate that has carried on into the 21st century. Works or faith.

    Sorry, but i&#039;ll take James (Natch), Fuck faith, lemme see what your faith does in the real world.

    No offense. I just get sick of seeing killers use "I found Jesus" to get out of the electric chair.

    James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

    James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.


    Case rested.





    EDIT: Juliett, this was NOT aimed at you. Only Paul.

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    Lets compare James with paul...

    Here&#039;s paul, James is above...

    1st Coronthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

    If i ever had to the case is rested. Yeshua would have been apalled. In my opinon, Paul hijacked Christianity. Jesus (the man we call Jesus) wanted women to speak. He answered the questions they had. I totally respect Yeshua.

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    There&#039;s alot of constantly mad and angry people out there they need some kinda help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butchee link=board=1;threadid=789;start=msg128526#msg12852 6 date=1088252628
    There&#039;s alot of constantly mad and angry people out there they need some kinda help.
    Well, now that we&#039;ve heard from the peanut gallery....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madcap link=board=1;threadid=789;start=msg128473#msg12847 3 date=1088235960
    Yeshua would have been apalled. In my opinon, Paul hijacked Christianity. Jesus (the man we call Jesus) wanted women to speak. He answered the questions they had. I totally respect Yeshua.
    What we call Christianity today is in effect the result of a massive and overwhelmingly successful PR blitz by Paul and those like him. If you read Roman history as written by the Romans you can see this more clearly.

    You will also realize that the ultimate dogma held to today could easily have been quite different. Arianism, a much more reasonable and logical view of the nature of Christ, came within a hair&#039;s breadth of winning out. Unfortunately, politics didn&#039;t go their way, so a whole lot of them enjoyed the Christian, forgiving reward of being burnt alive--a fate shared by tens of thousands who died during the Middle Ages for not believing in Jesus correctly.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

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    That is a major point of contention you have against Christianity. I hate religion but love God. Those who run the PR biz also make the rules. I prefer the part of the gospel that says: For the Son of man is not come to destroy men&#039;s lives, but to save them. that is from Luke. Meaning, he was NOT sent down to punish and condemn, but to give relief to those who need it most.

    Judge lest ye not be judged. Our relationship with God is very personal. I don&#039;t understand God and don&#039;t assume I do. To show how personal it is, the relationship we have with God nearly mirrors the relationship we have with our father in the physical world. My father is endlessly forgiving and understanding, so that is what my God is to me.

    I took no offense at your post, Madcap! express ypurself !
    The Texas Pin-up Stripteuse!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Juliette_deSade link=board=1;threadid=789;start=msg128744#msg12874 4 date=1088285556
    I took no offense at your post, Madcap! express ypurself !
    Cool. I can get blunt and that sometimes gets me into trouble.

    This is actually a pretty cool discussion.

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    Incidentally,

    I used to manage an MSN comminuty called Atheist Vs God (I didn&#039;t create it, nor am I an Atheist) It was a little like handling fireworks. I demoted myself because it became too much like work.

  18. #93
    Sitri
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madcap link=board=1;threadid=789;start=msg128972#msg12897 2 date=1088317324
    Incidentally,

    I used to manage an MSN comminuty called Atheist Vs God (I didn&#039;t create it, nor am I an Atheist) It was a little like handling fireworks. I demoted myself because it became too much like work.
    That would be interesting. I can imagine there were lots of athiests, but who played GOD? Sometimes I believe that because we can communicate, we believe we can think like God and argue as God would. Of course, God would not argue...

    In my opinion, we can never fully understand Him and that is why we need to have faith. It would be like two dogs arguing what a man believes and how he acts... does that make sense. Or maybe a 5 year old explaining his parents.

    How can people look at everything that exists and how it relates and believe that this is a random event?

    But, to each his own and in his own time.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sitri link=board=1;threadid=789;start=msg129290#msg12929 0 date=1088387994
    How can people look at everything that exists and how it relates and believe that this is a random event?
    Actually, that&#039;s a misconception that the fundies like to spread around. Evolution is far from random. Just because there isn&#039;t something making every evolutionary decision doesn&#039;t make it random, there isn&#039;t someone up there carving each snowflake either, and those are far from random.

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    Whilst I may not be Christian, I was in my previous life (you could say). I was raised Roman Catholic.. was baptised, experienced First Communion and even Confirmation.

    It was after Confirmation that I started to awaken and have since chosen my own path (where actions speak louder than words - I believe you get what you give).

    The religion of Christianity is screwed up.
    The spirituality of Christianity is not.

    Religion is something that is made by us humans. Spirituality is not - it is personal, more akin to a feeling.. "faith" "belief" etc.

    The spirituality of Christianity is different to the religion. It is the religion I have problems with not the spirituality.


    All in all I&#039;ve been enjoying this thread as I&#039;ve always wondered how one can be Christian and a stripper without felling immense guilt (due to inspiring lust and other sinful emotions from patrons etc).


    enter: E3167322D9 for your 10% discount

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldCoastGirl link=board=1;threadid=789;start=msg129333#msg12933 3 date=1088394758
    The religion of Christianity is screwed up.
    The spirituality of Christianity is not.
    Good thought.

  22. #97
    Sitri
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madcap link=board=1;threadid=789;start=msg129291#msg12929 1 date=1088388271
    Quote Originally Posted by sitri link=board=1;threadid=789;start=msg129290#msg12929 0 date=1088387994
    How can people look at everything that exists and how it relates and believe that this is a random event?
    Actually, that&#039;s a misconception that the fundies like to spread around. Evolution is far from random. Just because there isn&#039;t something making every evolutionary decision doesn&#039;t make it random, there isn&#039;t someone up there carving each snowflake either, and those are far from random.
    I will ignore the fundie comment as I am not one or a literalist.

    But if you look at a set of tinker toys, you can build a lot of stuff with it right. And if you build a great big tinker toy ferris wheel, you will probably feel that your created the ferris wheel..

    But, Who created the whole concept of tinker toys and how they fit together? Didn&#039;t that inventor in fact enable all of these things to be made by designing the concept of tinker toys?

    We know that we are all built off of DNA. Even with Eve, God did not go "presto chango". He took a rib and in today&#039;s terms cloned it."

    But for Adam [8] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man&#039;s ribs [9] and closed up the place with flesh.
    22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib [10] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. "


    And if you look at the sequencing of creation, doesn&#039;t evolution make sense from the broader context of animals.

    The whole literal 7 day thing in my opinion has got to go. Obviously, an earth day could not even exist until "Day 4".

    Here is the link from the creation study committee ..they have quite a few comments.



    But without the debate on irrelevent details i.e. the number of days, etc. The real question is this. Did human beings evolve or were human beings created separately from the rest of the animals? Yes, genetically we are very similar. Compared to a potato we are 50% close. But, is there something special about a human being? Does our physical design have any relevance to our spiritual design?

    I guess I believe there is something special about being human. The capacity to love and hate, to learn and communicate, to wage war, to look at the stars and change the world are traits that are not exhibited by any other species.

    I am not implying that what we do is right, I am only saying that we have the choice to do good or evil and that we have a soul. And that is what makes human beings different. If you believe you have a soul, then you probably believe in God. I make this statement because you can analyze the biology of organisms and the chemistry, but, you can not define a soul in terms of evolution and science. If you can, I am listening. What would a soul evolve from?

    Now, whether you believe in religion and which one is right or wrong is not relevant to your primary question of is there a God because these are institutions run by (wo)men and are subject to the ignorance and imperfection of (wo)men. So, they are not perfect. But, they do serve a purpose.


    But the following link is the one you want to follow... The best one (so far) I have found in providing source material and debate.



    Finally, the reality is that as we argue and debate it is between human beings. The monkeys, dogs, cats, and even parrots are quite silent in wondering where they came from and does God exist. Unless you believe in Mr. Ed..the talking horse. hehe. When I start debates with monkeys and dogs I may have to review my viewpoint. Sort of like Planet of the Apes.

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    the "fundie" comment is strictly reserved for the people who think "Left Behind" should be in the non-fiction aisle.

    Once, in waldenbooks, a woman threw a bitch fit because the bible was in the "Religious" section with the other religious books, rather than in the "History" section, that&#039;s more or less who I am talking about. It&#039;s not a dig at you or anyone else who doesn&#039;t deserve it.

    (Incidentally, they had to call security on that lady)

  24. #99
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    Hey Madcap... no problem. I did not take it that way.. Just wanted to clarify my position.

    It is sad that there are people who use religion to separate themselves from others instead of practicing the two main commandments.

    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
    -Blaise Pascal, Pensees, 1670


    In the new testament (which supercedes the old testament) There are only two commandments.. love God and love your neighbor.

    "For all the law is fulfilled in one word: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." - Galatians 5:14

    As soon as I get loving other accomplished then I can start worrying about all of the other nuances.. ha ha.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sitri link=board=1;threadid=789;start=msg129647#msg12964 7 date=1088449924
    In the new testament (which supercedes the old testament) There are only two commandments.. love God and love your neighbor.
    Yeshua didn&#039;t think so. In fact he insisted that heaven and earth would pass away before one jot passed from the law. In fact he chided people for not following the levitican law.

    If you want i can post the verses.

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