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Thread: downward spiral?

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    Default downward spiral?

    I hear alot of complaints on the threads about how business is going way down and how there are more girls than custumers. That you can't make 500-1000 every night like you used too. I stopped stripping a couple of months ago because the clubs were doing so badly. When guys where holding of on dances for dollar dances to come back up I thought it was time.
    I now do bachelor parties at a reputable company and they don't get calls like they used too. Instead of the 30 shows they would have booked on a friday night they only get 10 if they are lucky. I get sent on one show a night and have to work really hard. I enjoyed stripping at a club and found quite it fun when I was making money. I used to make alot of money and barely had to work for it. Know I make so little and wonder why when I worked so hard. Was it naive to think that this business was going to be continously profitable. People as a whole still think that dancers make 1000 dollars every night. I wonder what have dancers done to keep the money flowing. And if dancers feel that the money isn't good anymore why they continue to dance?
    kisses

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    Veteran Member anklefrog's Avatar
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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    I love my job and the club I'm currently at. I work as much as necessary to pay my bills. If I have a good day or week, I'll work less. I have worked from open, 11AM to close before, 2:30 AM. To be honest, a lot of it is boredom. What I mean is, is that at my club we are such a close-knit group of people. I would never mind giving 90% of the girls or staff a ride home, doing them a favor, letting them borrow cab fare to get home, etc. At home I'd be sitting around watching TV or out spending money. At work I can socialize, make $, and have a good time. I don't really have any friends outside of the club, so as bad as it sounds, sometimes I go to work to hang out and I don't care if I make money.
    It's better to be looked over, than overlooked.

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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    Thats cool that you can do that and are close to the girls. It is totally the opposite at the club I used to work at. I wonder if that makes a difference. :-/
    kisses

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    Veteran Member anklefrog's Avatar
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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    For me it does. The money is not great where I work. I could easily go somewhere else and make more, but for me it's a comfort issue. If I'm not comfortable where I am, or dread going into work, how am I gonna make $? I think that will show through to the customers. Nobody wants to buy dances from an unhappy stripper.
    It's better to be looked over, than overlooked.

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    God/dess Zabrina's Avatar
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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    Business has gone way down! While we are not making 500 a night regularly anymore--Even a craptacular 200 a night is better that we'll get at a 'normal' job. Where else can we make even that? So while the money is sometimes crappy it's still better that the other options.

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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    This business has peaked out due to new laws regulating contact, tougher drinking laws, companies not allowing employees to write off strip club expenses and less business travel for top employees.

    Clubs have gotten too expensive and I know in Texas guys that spent $200 or so the last time they were in the club will say, "I'm not buying any dances today, I'll catch you next time."

    How many of you work in clubs that are full of nothing but middle-aged guys? I see clean looking middle aged guys all over town but only a few in the clubs. Those types can usually only go to a club when they are out of town ALONE because they have families, so even if a club is geared to upscale patrons, there is no guarantee of making money everynight because every night might not have to right type of clientele to make decent money off of.

    Plus in the big city clubs with lots of girls, every girl will not make $200 plus every day. I might land several hundred dollars today off of 1 or 2 guys and Jane and Suzie leave with $20 after payouts because there were so many girls working and only a limited amount of customers able and willing to spend money. Tomorrow jane and suzie will make several hundred and i will leave with $20. Then we might have several $200-$400 days in a row and then hit $100 or less several days in a row. It doesn't matter how fancy the club is. That is the reality nowadays. The business is up and down and if lots of girls went home with no money last night, they will be back in tonight to try to get out of the red and now 80 of us are competing for the dollars tonight instead of the 50 that worked last night, and the clubs are still hiring new girls in order to offer more variety for the customers.

    If a dancer could hit between $200-$300 a night after payout daily like clockwork 5 days a week that would be wonderful nowadays.

    If you have a $800 night tonight you had better put that money away because you might have to work 5-6 nights to get that much again.

    But as Mariah said, where are you going to make $800 a week net income nowadays and have the flexibility that we as dancers have?

    And it is impossible to settle down in one city as a dancer nowadays because as soon as you do, a new anti dance ordinance is passed and trhe business goes down to nothing. Look at Rapid City SD and San Antonio. Weas dancers have to constantly seek out new cities to work in to stay afloat, and pretty soon we will run out of them.

    Brenda Lee, if you can do 3-4 bachelor shows a week I would bet it is more money than you could make anywhere else in the short run anyway.

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    Veteran Member Naomi_Tx's Avatar
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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    I recently moved back home to San Antonio, and as many of you may know, the city ordinance has made a huge impact. I came back to help my mother because she got laid off from a company she worked at for 20 years. I'd like to move to a city where I'd make the money I'm used to but my conscience will not let me. When you're making less money I guess you just have to learn how to budget, it's not an easy thing for me to do. I'd fly somewhere for a week or two but I'm not sure where to go, I hear it's gotten worse everywhere. Any suggestions?

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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    I totally agree with Mariah- yes, we are not making anywhere near the money we used to - but i find that being able to work only three nights a week, working with fabulous girls, having friends at the club, having more free time to do what I want & travel, and still making much more than I did working a 9-5, is worth it. .. at least for now!
    Jax
    "You have no idea what a long-legged gal can do without doing anything." -Claudette Colbert

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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    i thought i wasnt making enough or getting good hours... i found a new club which gives me 4 days a week plus whatever else i wanted to work... and forces girls to stay til 3am (good for me, i normally wanna leave at midnight before all the money is made . they have some other good practices, like locking the dressing room so girls dont go in and sit and gossip, which again makes you work harder.

    so far im really enjoying this club... making almost twice my last club in my first two nights... my third was a little slow... but it was a rainy disgusting night... go figure, i guess at this local its either a hit or a miss... the fact we dont have to pay house fees makes the "miss" days worth it.

    anyhoo.. i think u just need to find a club for your style... yes it is true that i doubt in my lifetime i will ever see 1000 a night, but half that is still amazing to make to compare income to any other worker . i was also thinking of doing private parties for a bit, but changed my mind after doing one recently... guys try to get away with way too much, and just expect it. (the guys i did one for were friends whom fixed my car for me... and were respectful in the fact that when i said club rules, that meant club rules... but were still dissapointed).

    i hope this rambling messaged helped some... lol, i just woke up so my brain isnt quite thinking in logical lines yet!

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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    Naomi, so many girls act like they make big bank that it disgusts me.Pure economics tells anyone with half a brain that no city will offer DRASTICALLY more dancer earnings than another. Contact allowed or gotten away with in various cities plus the amount of competition clubs have and the amount of places guys have to choose from night life wise all have a bearing on how busy a club is and how much guys spend on dances and tip on stage.

    I don't beelieve in flying anywhere to work in this business. You must have a dependable car and DRIVE. Going alone is better because a club might be willing to hire one girl but not two.

    Everyone in the country has interest in dancing in the big city high volume high end clubs, and more dancers want to do this than there are customers willing to pay for our services.

    If you want to have more consistent earnings I would suggest working in small towns. I work bookings in the upper Midwest and Montana and most of the clubs I work at pay $300-$400 for M-Sat work plus what you earn on the floor.

    Your car is your best friend. Clubs that might offer you more consistent money will be those in towns you would never go to unless you were driving. Spend a month out of town working smaller towns and 2 weeks at home is what a lot of girls do.

    Guys are not going to pay the same money for an air dance as they would a contact one and if you were a guy you wouldn't either.

    In some smaller towns a new pretty face will grab all the attention and in many of these clubs you are only working with 3-4 girls or maybe in the bigger clubs 8-15.

    You may go on stage 10-12 times a night in some places and guys might only buy 1-2 dances at a time but if you are only working with 4 other girls and look as good as you do in PT's or Allstars for example in SA you will come out of that club with more money than SA and start building some regulars who if you exchange phone #'s like i do with the good guys, can let them know when you will be back at the club so they can come see you.

    We've got to start thinking differently than everyone else does to make money. and just because a club is slow on Monday in these towns or you have to go on stage for 2 customers is no reason to walk out. and you're not going to be able to hustle these guys for $200 an hour sitting fee. But more of these guys will tip on stage and you won't have to wait around for one customer to make all of your money.

    here is an example of 4 GOOD weeks in a row on the road in SD and MT:

    week1

    m-211.00
    t-487.00
    w-138.00
    t-161.00
    f-300.00
    s-274.00
    total for week:$1571+$424 club pay =$1995

    week 2 different club

    m-208
    t-358
    w-219
    t-318
    f-294
    s-539

    total for week-$1936 =300 club pay =$2236(The last booking i had at this club I cleared $981 for the week inc pay)

    week 3

    m-431
    t-164
    w-150
    t-89-
    f-309
    s-115
    s-38 (1/2 shift)

    total for week $1296 +$450 club pay =$1746

    week 4 (same club)

    m-47
    t-323
    w-203
    t-835
    f-104
    s-104

    weekly total-$1616+$375 club pay + $170 in free rent= $2161

    total for that 4 week period=$8138

    Another 4 week period:9right after the previous weeks)

    week 1

    m-111
    t-139
    w-215
    t-120
    f-190
    s-240
    total $1015+club pay $300= $1315

    week 2

    m-134
    t-272
    w-188
    t-124
    f-308
    s-421
    weekly total $1447+club pay $428= $1875

    week 3

    m-126
    t-138
    w-81
    t-92
    f-124
    s-131
    weekly total $692=$300 club pay =$992

    week 4
    m-141
    t-148
    w-50
    t-108
    f-62
    s-142
    weekly total$641+club pay $378.41=$1019.41

    total for those 4 weeks-$5201.41

    compared to in Texas i've had spells like this:
    m-109
    w-112
    t-71
    f-220
    s-271

    m-106-
    t-210
    w121
    f-273 (12 hours)

    t-214
    w-60
    f-500
    s-93
    s-311

    m-555
    t-157
    f-289
    s-207
    s-287

    and 4 weeks in a row at a texas club during the summer after having made mid teens in the spring,
    $713 in 5 days
    $953 in 5 days
    $816 in 6 days (4 days in a row under $100)
    $608 in 5 days

    and then a $1500 week in 6 days and a $700 one in 5.


    The potential for big money exists in some high end clubs for certain girls but even then show me a girl who can take home after tip outs on as many days as I have posted earnings for above $800-$1000.

    I know SA earnings as as bad as the earnings I just posted for my worst weeks in TX.

    The money on the road is steadier.I see very few dancers now who work 5-6 days a week for 3 months and buy new $40,000 cars in cash as there were 7-8 years ago.

    Girls love for some reason to brag about how they do better than other girls but any fool can walk in the clubs they work in and see that the big figures they boast about aren't there on a regular basis.

    for girls who can't get $1000 or $1500 to the high teens in their big city clubs which there are more girls in that predicament than are honest enough to admit, if they are willing to get in the CAR and drive to some of the smaller town clubs that have bookings or stedy business they can weather the doldrums of this business and make more money than the bigger clubs with tons of competition for the shrinking dollars.

    Rural nebraska, South Dakota, North dakota, wisconsin, small towns in minnesota, Montana, Iowa small towns, some in rural Illinois and Kansas all offer the opportunity to make steadier money than many of the big cities IF you are one of the girls stuck in a place where money has gotten down to rock bottom or the laws have stopped guys from buying dances.

    I go from Arizona to montana by car no motel room just naps at rest stops in a day and a half, and from the Dakotas to Texas in the same lenght of time, just driving straight through.

    A car is necessary to get to the clubs and once you get in the area other club opportunities will appear that you woudn't know about if you didn't drive.

    Those of you who are really suffering now and who are willing to try what I am saying and not expecting the high roller customers but good steady money with little competition will see what I mean.

    You have nothing to lose by going on the road a few weeks and seeing.

    Some dancers have given up on the big city clubs where they live entirely and just make bookings at smaller town clubs in the midwest for 3-4 weeks in a row and then drive home for two weeks and not work at all at home or just for a few days. Some take their dogs and one girl a huge bird with them.



  11. #11
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    --Even a craptacular 200 a night is better that we'll get at a 'normal' job. Where else can we make even that? So while the money is sometimes crappy it's still better that the other options.

    I agree that on the surface earning a craptacular $200 a night = $1000 for a 5 day week seems better than a 'normal' job. However, consider the following :

    - In some states and cities a $1000 a week gross income would only translate into about $500 net after paying a 15% self employment tax, a 28% federal income tax, and another 7% in state income tax. While some dancers have always considered paying income taxes as "optional", new IRS computer capabilities and new laws are making this less and less "optional".

    - a "normal" job would typically provide unemployment, sick days and vacation, which dancers typically do not get and must pay for out of their own pockets. The sick days and vacation alone "cost" a dancer two weeks earnings or $2000 every year (= $40 per week) if she does not work.

    - a "normal" job would provide health and maybe dental coverage, plus disability insurance etc. These would pay expenses which many dancers avoid since they must pay for them 100% out of their own pockets. This often makes for a "pay me more later" scenario as little medical and dental problems which 'normal' workers would have taken care of but dancers don't because of the cost become big expensive problems later. Alternately, the dancer must pay big bucks for private Blue Cross or similar coverage. Equivalent cash value/cost has to be at least $2000 per year (= $40 per week), potentially much more if medical/dental costs for other family members also comes into the picture or if the dancer develops some sort of serious health problem. I know that in the income taxes "optional" environment of the past it has often been possible for dancers to get government health benefits - but as the income taxes become less and less "optional", government health benefits will be denied due to your reported income.

    - building experience and "service" at a "normal" job over a period of 10 years does provide a foundation for resumes, promotions etc. which can result in a better "normal" job at say age 28 than if a girl danced for 10 years and then entered the "normal" job market cold at age 28. What's this worth ? Well that question is very individualistic depending on the type of 'normal' job the girl seeks at age 28 and tons of other variables. If you use a number like an extra $3,000 in "normal" job earning power for every year from age 28 to retirement (= $1,000,000), divided by 10 years of dancing, and factoring in the time value of money, this "lost opportunity" cost would be somewhere around $25,000 per year of dancing ( = $500 per week). This of course does not count in losing 10 years of employer retirement fund contributions, losing 10 years of Social Security contributions etc. which will result in less money coming back to you at retirement ( like another $3000 a year for 10 or 20 years after you reach age 62-65).

    The only point I'm trying to make is that earning a craptacular $200 a night as a dancer may "seem" like it pays much better than "normal" job alternatives - but this viewpoint is really only true if you consider paying full income taxes as 'optional', if you don't take any time off, if you don't have to deal with any health problems, if you only compare earnings on a week by week take home dollars basis, and if you don't consider the long term financial consequences of being a self-employed person with no promotable job experience and no benefits for 10 years versus building a "base" for advancement in the "normal" job market and an extra 10 years of contributions to normal retirement systems.

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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    According to what Melonie says, basically every dancer should be the entrepreneurial type who alongside their dancing is saving 'seed' money for their own business rather than hoping to be an employee after their careers are over and having to explain the gap in employment.

    A girl in this business who is just working enough to get by with no plans to the future will definately end up on her ass at somepoint.

    I have no plans of working in a job again but I will admit that it is taking longer than I had anticipated to save the money needed to retire with and not have to dance anymore given the state of this business today.

    As far as health insurance goes we just have to pay out $200 + per month if we want to have protection and I've had to pay for dental care out of my pocket and even with an excellent dentist in a Mexico border town still had a huge expense to take care of my dental needs.

    You're not going to get rich dancing anymore. We all have to be working on a business that will replace dancing while we are working.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    yes Tina, you're right that the one way to avoid losing the 10 years of "basebuilding" has been to prepare for spending the rest of your life as a self-employed person, plus saving up the "capital investment" necessary to set yourself up as such. This was fairly easy to do in the "good old days", when it was possible to earn $2-3,000 per five day week of dancing and it was also possible to bank $500-$1000 a week = $25-50,000 per year as a nest egg, yielding $250-$500,000 of "investable capital" after 10 years of dancing. With this sort of nest egg, a girl can afford to invest $50-$100,000 in her own business, plus still having $200,000-$400,000 in interest or dividend paying investments to provide a "base" income for her while her business grows.

    However, in today's scenario of weekly net earnings of $1000 or less, how much can a girl realistically save ? $100 a week = $5,000 a year ? After 10 years of dancing and saving, that translates into buying one new car in the year 2013! This isn't even close to being enough to start your own business plus having investments to provide "base" income every month to meet living expenses while your business grows. To paraphrase local words of New England wisdom - "you can't get there from here".

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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    I agree with melonie that earning don't equal out to that much when you take in consideration taxes health insurance. I think that midwest bookings is a temporary fix to the financial situation because while you may have a weekly pay you have to take in consideration of hotel cost and wear and tear on your car and gas. Plus many people just can't give that much time. I started in the business because I wanted to just work 3 nights a week earn what people make in a week of working. I thought that 200 is good earning for a night but when I had to pay tip out and house fees it wasn't good. when I started out in the business 400-500 on Fridays and Saturdays night was consistently made. The clubs however wouldn't give you those nights unless you could work on other week night. Now they let all the really cute newby girls work on just Fridays and Saturdays night while the other house girls have suck it up all week. I also noticed that alot of the guys are just bringing dollars and not buying dances. Many times the club would be full the guys would not get any dances. I'm sorry but I just can't survive on dollars tipped on stage. They girls always lied about what they made bringing money from the previous night and claiming they made 600-1000 while every body else made 100 after tip out. I think that girls exaggerate because it's status thing. I think that escorts have ruined the business. I looked in the adult section of the newspaper and their are incredibly beautiful escorts. Why would a guy spend 300 on a bunch of dances when he can get an escort to do god knows what to him. It is sad but many of the girls I see in those ads are from other country's. I have also seen many fellow strippers go done that line of business through desperation. I don't know if that is the case but that is what I think.
    kisses

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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    yes, Brenda, I agree that the "desparation" some dancers face in poor economic times does go along way toward increasing the "sleaze factor" required for an average dancer to make money. The top shelf show club dancers are immune from this sort of competition, but on the other hand only a small percentage of all dancers can make it past the audition and thus have the opportunity to work at the show clubs. As you pointed out, lots of club owners have discovered that in a low contact environment, having '9's and '10's in the club is the only thing that draws in new business. As you stated, this often leads to clubowners allowing girls who are '9's and '10's to work the 'gravy shifts' under a whole different set of rules, and forcing the '7's and '8's to deal with strict rules and slow nights. This leaves the vast majority of dancers who are not '9's or '10's facing a situation of just dancing as usual in neighborhood clubs and earning peanuts, versus going with the flow in the "sleaze factor" department at high contact clubs in order to compensate for falling incomes.

    I wrote an article on this very subject a while back, which you can see at if you're interested. When I first wrote it 2 years ago, I really don't think that most dancers wanted to believe what I had written. It does seem to be more true with every year that passes, though!

    When you look at the real net earnings available to neighborhood club dancers today after paying taxes and after paying all expenses, it really is becoming a borderline situation whether or not it's worth them continuing to dance. Sure, $500 gross for a 5 day week is better pay than a lot of starting level "normal" jobs would pay, but if neighborhood club dancers are forced to pay taxes due to clubs reporting their income, if they count in the value of health and maybe dental insurance which a "normal" job would cover, if they count in the lost income of taking 2 weeks off per year versus getting paid vacation, the "short term" dollars aren't all that different anymore. If neighborhood club dancers stop to realize that every year they continue to dance means another year that they won't get a promotion or a pay raise in a "normal" job due to lack of "service" and job experience when they finally do take a 'normal' job, the "long term" dollar picture starts to look rather bleak. If neighborhood club dancers take a really long view, they'll also realize that by continuing to dance and therefore not contributing (or not having an employer that contributes) to SSI and private retirement plans on their behalf, they are reducing the amount of the retirement and Social Security checks that they'll eventually receive when they reach age 62.

    I truly believe today that if a girl is not a '9' or a '10', and thus is not able to work in the top shelf show clubs or only on the "gravy shifts" at neighborhood clubs, that she really needs to ask herself a serious question - "am I willing to offer extras". If she's not, then she's probably better off getting out of dancing at neighborhood clubs right now to instead start building a "base" at a straight job. The $100-$200 a week "pay cut" she'd be taking would more than be made up for by insurance coverage, vacation pay, promotions and raises at her 'normal' job next year, larger retirement checks eventually, etc.

    As far as the "hitting the road" option, this only works if the number of club bookings available exceeds the number of girls willing to drive and work on the road. Consider that if only one extra girl from every US state and Canadian province started travelling on this circuit, the club bookings available would be immediately overwhelmed. This would mean the end of weekly paychecks, since clubs would have more girls willing to work in these clubs voluntarily and therefore clubs woundn't need to entice them with a paycheck.

    You're also correct that the true costs of driving the road circuit are actually much higher than they appear in the short term, considering that it costs big money to replace all 4 tires, to replace brakes etc. which get worn out very quickly when driving 10-15,000 extra miles a year. Plus, frankly, working on the road results in a lot of extra stresses and consequences (like not being able to work out, eating the 'wrong' foods, not sleeping well) which indirectly affect a girl's ability to earn money in clubs eventually. I have great respect for the girls that work the road, having done it myself, I can tell you that it does involve some major sacrifices and also some major risks. It was one thing to endure those sacrifices and take those risks if some major money was on the table (i.e. $3000-$5000 a week gross earnings potential). But these days the earnings potential on the road is nowhere near that, even though the expenses, the sacrifices and the risks are the same.

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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    I agree with Melonie. This is the reason I go to school full time and work part time at a job that offers me full benifits. I work Friday thru Sunday and net around $1K and I save it all because I work somewhere already. This system works the best for me because I have the protection of the benefits at one job but have the money from dancing.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    I read most some of the dancers on here went to college. I have a job at a major hospital, knowing the day would come wheni would stop dancing. I had to have my benefits, vacation days, personal leave, life insurance and 401k.

    When you start dancing you have to put your self in a position knowing this is not a career.

    Some of the dancers on this board have done that i read.

    33 now started at 21. Been at the hospital for many years as well. Do phone sex before going to work, and when home.
    Usually put in 30 some hours a week of phone sex.

    It all came together. I am happy for that. And me quiting the clubs was because i burnt out mainly. It's been along time.

    I see where the clubs are not what they used to be. But for me i had many regulars. And i counted on them, at least a few a night to be there. And also making (or trying to) new customers.

    My earnings never went down, only a few from Pure P.
    I think what happened to me was i told alot of engineers and doctors to come see me. And threy did. I kept in touch, and told them when i was woking.

    And believe it or not, alot of guys just want to pay to spend time with you! Location does have alot to do with this. And how many dancers are working, in order to get a new customer.

    I am happy for my choices, and i hope others out here find that job they love after dancing as well!

    PS pluss phone sex seems to be a boomer now, because it's totaly safe, one on one, and no bill on the customers phone.

    It's fantasy, sometimes reality bites.....

  18. #18
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    Pamela I totally agree that the majority of dancers who post on this board are definitely not 'typical' dancers. As you said, many already have college degrees and the ability to work professional level jobs if they want to, and many others are working on their college degrees while dancing.

    Many also fall into the category of '9's and '10's such that they do have the option of working in good earnings potential low contact show clubs, or they do have the luxury of walking into neighborhood clubs when they want to and will be allowed to work the high earnings potential "gravy shifts" without having to be stuck also working a monday or tuesday night for $100 which 'typical' dancers would be required to do.

    But some of the members of this BBS, and the vast majority of exotic dancers in general, do not share these "luxuries" which many here take for granted. It's undeniable that some of the success that you and I have achieved is due to very hard work and very careful planning on our part. But it's also true that some of that success was the result of fortunate timing (we started dancing in the 90's), fortunate chromosomes (in your case), a good plastic surgeon (in my case) etc. We also had the luxury of being able to build a 'fan base' of doctors, lawyers, bankers etc. during the years when they could go to the clubs on their expense accounts. And we also had the luxury of being in the 'first wave' of girls to start working webcams, phone sex lines etc. when it was not nearly as hard as it is today for a 'new girl' to draw attention and business (and of course a sexy scandinavian accent helps a lot too!).

    Girls just starting into dancing today face a much more uphill struggle than we did, and I don't envy them. If the new girl does not have the genetic luxury of being a '9' or a '10', and therefore is not likely to ever be afforded the opportunity to work in big money low contact upscale show clubs, or to walk into a club and only work the "gravy shifts" she chooses and then not have to waste her time and effort working slow nights the way 'typical' dancers are required to do, it's really getting questionable whether or not dancing is worthwhile anymore.

    I very much agree with Pamela and Ebony that in today's dance club business, and given the future direction of stricter and stricter laws and lower and lower earnings potential, that any girl that looks upon dancing as a career is headed for disaster. At best, dancing should be looked at as simply a means of earning a few extra bucks while you continue to pursue your 'real' career. If you're a 'typical' dancer such that clubowners try to force you to work weeknights for low pay in order to also be allowed to work weekend nights where there's a chance for decent earnings, the clubowner is in effect forcing you to devote so much time and energy to dancing that you won't have the time and energy left to pursue a 'real' career. This is a formula for potential disaster a few years down the road, and bears some hard thinking as to whether or not it's worth continuing dancing under these conditions.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: downward spiral?


    Melonie, I agree with you, but a girl still has choices.

    When I first started dancing I was very young... I figured if I were working at McDonalds I would be making $800 a month, so I gave myself $800 a month to live on. That allowed me to save $2-3000 most months. I danced for a little over a year and had over $30k in the bank when I stopped. That was a choice I made to live on very little money and save a lot of money.

    Later I danced to get out of bad situations, buy a new vehicle and move across the country, etc, and saved very little of that money.

    More recently I danced to support my business, to be able to make money and work only when I needed to. I saved very little money, but I accomplished my goal of growing my business and now I don't dance. I don't make a lot of money, but I don't need a lot of money - I own my house, and my bills are very low.

    Now dancing is something to fall back on for me. If something horrible were to happen and I were to need $$ fast, I would be able to go and make it. That gives me a sense of security that allows me to take risks.

    So, dancing can still help a girl accomplish her goals :-)

    Lena



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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    I see it that way too, Lena. I think there's more to life than health insurance and "job security". As some of you may know, I recently quit my job as a computer programmer and am now stripping full-time. I don't consider this quitting programming to be a dancer, but just quitting something I hated and having something else to fall back on. I don't look at dancing as a career. I don't look at programming as a career! It was soooooo freaking boring. Although I could make a decent living at it for about 40 more years, I can't imagine wanting to. Life isn't about being a worker bee. It's not about thinking where do I get the most dollars per hour. For me life is about living...it's about doing what makes me happy. And if that means dancing, or being a housewife, or running my own business or flipping burgers at McDonald's, then that's what I want to be doing!

    I feel great right now. I have time to spend with my dog and my ferrets, fixing up my house, and it's really nice to sleep in again.

  21. #21
    Veteran Member anklefrog's Avatar
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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    I also gave up a job in retail management about 1 year ago. I loved it, but I was underpaid. I was promoted when I was 21, and where I worked was male-dominated, a male type of business. Others who would get promoted after me with less time with the company or knowledge of the business would make a few dollars more an hour then me. I thought that was unfair. I know I won't dance forever, but I figured I'm young, can also go back to that compnay or something similar. I have more time, more money, can afford how I live, take vacations, etc, and I'm happy.
    It's better to be looked over, than overlooked.

  22. #22
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    It sounds like all of you have very level heads and are using dancing in an intelligent way - to earn quick cash in the short term, while already having experience with 'normal' jobs and still being able to go back to a 'normal' job any time you want or need to. Some of you are even laying the groundwork for your own self-sustaining businesses - this is great! My comments were aimed at more 'typical' dancers who typically have less 'normal' job qualifications or educational/professional credentials than you do.

    I do agree that dancing can provide an element of satisfaction, freedom and self-expression for many girls, provided that they are able to get hired in clubs with a positive working environment and reasonable earnings potential. However, in many cities and for many girls, the working environment they must deal with in local clubs is often 'less than positive', and it was these girls I was addressing my comments to.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    As far as working on the road as Melonie said girls eat improperly , aren't able to work out and sleep well. Young dancers who are flexible and are willing to do whatever it takes to become well off dancing read what I have to say.

    I don't travel as most dancers do. They travel as tourists. If you are going to travel you MUST have your car and live as the locals do. that means a decent sized ice chest, a .6 cubic foot microwave, a months worth of clothes, a cd player, laptop and printer,sheets, pillows, blankets,an iron and small ironing board, a 100 ounce bottle of detergent, oil and coolant,throw rugs for the kitchen and bathroom, checking accts with banks that have branches in all the states you work in, kitchen utensils and spices, just to name a few. One dancer bought an ice chest at Wal Mart for $67.77 which doubles as a mini refrigerator which can be plugged into your car cigarette lighter while driving to keep the food cold and into the electric socket in your room. It is a 40 gallon capacity.

    I rarely eat in restaurants except to grab an occasional hamburger or salad if I am running late and when I am on the highway going from one town to the next.

    I always stay in an extended stay suite such as Intown, studio 6, or small motels which have kitchenettes or if not I use my ice chest and microwave to cook with. My weekly rent is in the $160-$250 range depending on the town I am booked in. NEVER, pay by the night unless you have a partial week of work as that cost is much higher. I have a nationwide toll free voice mail pager and my Sprint cellphone and where that doesn't work I bought a Trac Fone cellphone at Wal-Mart for $50 where you can buy phonecards to put minutes on your phone and it will work everywhere, so I can always be reached.

    Every morning I have a bowl of cereal and a Snapple light and a banana, and cook chicken breasts, fish, microwavable vegetables and maybe a potato or yam.

    When I hit a town I get 3-4 gallons of water at Wal-Mart and buy groceries as I would do at home. Right now I have a watermelon in the fridge,cantaloupe, yogurt, milk, soda, cold water, leftover asparagus from yesterday, and pork chops for 2 days dinner which can be cooked in a round covered pyrex dish in the microwave,but where I am now I have a place with a full kitchen and stove for $184 a week. And 24 hour fitness where I have my membership has a location here so I worked out 4 of the last 5 days.I have a membership which is good nationwide at every club but Super Sports.

    Working out is not a problem as even the smallest towns that have clubs in them have a YMCA or rec center where from $5-$11 a day non members can use the facilities and working out every other day is enough unless a person is a fitness junkie then they can go more often.In some towns these facilities close at 2 or so on Saturdays and are closed on Sundays or open from 1-6 but you can work around that.

    The problem is that dancers want quick money, are afraid to be alone, and don't like to work much.

    There is no easy money and for any young dancers in there early 20's who are not in school, have no children or relationships which tie them down to a home base, and no more bills than a car payment , insurance and maybe 2 small credit card balances, these girls can still achieve financial success through dancing IF they hate working at a job and want to be wealthy so badly that they eat, breathe and sleep thinking about money.

    If a dancer travels like a tourist she cannot have enough necessary items with her to make road traveling viable. Plus your car opens up doors to work in places that are hard to go to via plane.

    Dancers waste money on airfare, and then have to depend on a cab to get to the club, have no icechest or microwave so they are forced to eat out, and can't get around town to go to the mall or workout facilities without wasting money on cab fare. Club earnings aren't high enough to afford that kind of lifestyle but 90% of dancers travel that way. You can't even take enough with you on the plane to make your dancing trip comfortable.

    Every dancer doesn't have to work in the areas that I work in but if she just gets out there and works in various clubs small town or bigger city, don't discriminate and stay a week at a time in a place working 5 or 6 days(6 is required if it is a paid booking), saves 30% of everything she makes and does this for several years andthen takes 30% of her savings and puts it into some investments she will be on her way to having waay more money than a job will offer and the flexibility to work where and when she wants.

    Take this example, a 22 year old dancer with no children or relationship who has a 2002 car and insurance which costs her $500 a month and 2 credit cards for $50 a month and puts all of her things in storage for lets say $50 a month and a cell phone for $50 a month has $650 a month in bills or $165 per week in expenses.

    She has an average of $235 a week in motel expense so $400 a week goes out.

    In a 4 week month on the road she averages $5600. Subtract her bills and get $4000. Subtract 30% of $5600 and get $1700 approx in savings. That leaves her $2300 or $575 a week for gas, groceries and misc.

    Even if she has a $4000 month, she still could save $1200.

    if she had 5 months of $4000 a month and 5 months of $5600 a month and saved 30% she would have $14,000 saved in a year. there is an extra 4 weeks money here since a year has 52 weeks which she could use for expenditures during the 8 weeks she is not working.

    $14,000 a year saved times 3 years of doing this is $42000. if she were to take 1/3 of her savings and buy tax lien certificates from select states(when people get behind on their property taxes, anyone can bring them current at the county level and when they are reedeemed, receive your money back plus interest which varies from state to state).I just used that as an example of a way to make money.

    Most people are not willing to put the time into making lots of money. Some infomercial investment programs work just as some multi-level marketing programs do too but only a handful of people achieve real success because they are unwilling to stick with the plans until they pay off.

    Carleton Sheets real estate programs work but in his course he tells you it is better to have some money down. He also says that if you prescreen the houses as he says you will look at on average about 100 properties to find 3 worth maiking an offer on to get 1.

    Most people are too discouraged after 5-6 offers go south to stick with it.

    The same goes with dancing. A club is slow on monday evening. A girl walks out. She is tired or partied too much the night before. She calls in sick or does not work.

    Young dancers must let go of partying with Snoop Dogg and the Girls Gone Wild lifestyle and stay focused on working the whole week and saving 30% and stop listening to bullshit girls who say they make $1000 a night in some city which is no more lucrative than where you are working.

    Young dancers need to NEVER smoke a cigarette, use drugs, and limit alcohol consumption to 1 drink a night. They must look their best at all times and watch the girls who are the best salespeople and learn to use those techniques with their customers.

    Young dancers must not be swayed by bullshit guys and realize that the more successful they become the more succesful guys will be drawn in their lives.

    I see lots of clubs where a pretty and friendly girl who is a good floor worker will do well but there are not enough of these girls working these smaller out of the way clubs.

    The fancy places are saturated with beauty but the competition is less in places no one else pretty and classy is working and if 2 posters on this board read this and follow what I have said to the letter for several years and work 1/3 of their money, they can even in this declining dancer business become well off without having to work at a job.

    Take Melonie for example. Having JJJ boobs is quite an inconvenience and makes her stand out in the real world more than she would like many times, but she has posted that she will be able to retire in about a year and 1/2 set for life.

    Plus you are gaining a lot by traveling around and working in places you might never see had you not traveled as a dancer by car and worked in places you would never go otherwise.

    If I can reach 2 posters on this board who hear what I am saying and will do what many others won't and not discriminate on the types of clubs they work in and follow what i have posted to the letter, then I have accomplished something by this long post.

    A job will never create wealth. While you young dancers have few bills and responsibilities is the time you can get ahead even today with lesser dance earnings.

    I hope a few of you will take this to heart and have financial success without ever having to work a traditional job again.


  24. #24
    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    Tina...a lot of thoughts, kind of scrambled.

    Maybe all this works for you, but that's not necessarily for everyone. Not everyone, dancer or whatever she does, wants to live as a minimalist. I don't consider that kind of life worth it, but I respect your decision to feel that way. I just don't understand why you feel that all dancers should live like that. You want to save and get rich in real estate. I want to work a lot, save a little, splurge a little, own a house, maybe date every once in awhile....and "WASTE" MONEY ON DINING OUT!

    For others, they want to live day by day, work as little as possible. I don't necessarily think that's the greatest plan, but hey, who am I to judge?

    I dunno. I think your attitude is somewhat self-righteous. You don't know all the answers for all dancers! You just know what's right for you.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: downward spiral?

    Emily,no one said that all dancers should follow the idea that I posted. I clearly stated since this post is about the business being on a downward spiral which it is that young dancers with minimal expenses and no children who want to get ahead off of this business have some options where the money is not as competitive and if they stay focused and work full time and save 30% nightly that they can still accomplish a promising financial future by dancing.

    My post mentioned a 22 year old dancer working a mere 40 weeks a year 5-6 days a week, which if my math is correct leaves 12 weeks of vacation to allow for dating or having fun(an average job allows for 2 weeks off a year,right?) and no one said anything about never eating at a restaurant. As we all know and as Melonie stated in her post it is not healthy to eat restaurant food on a daily basis.I merely was illustrating how it is not as hard as many dancers think to travel to different areas and smaller town clubs to work and still accomplish your financial goals from dancing.

    If what I posted wasn't of interest to you you did not need to reply at all. I explicitly stated that if 2 dancers gained something from my experiences and my post that I have been helpful.

    I was made aware of a different way of working this business by a poster who laid it all on the line for me just as I did here and I am merely giving back to anyone whom my insight can help.

    And after reading on www.aspd.net about guys in Treasures in Houston complaining about so many girls working that if a customer told them no to company they got cussed out, that a more comfortable solution to that problem is for girls to work where competition for the dollars is less.

    For you dancers who are students, parents, or whom are only interested in part time income from this business, my above-mentioned post was not for you.

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