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Thread: Dancer complacency will leave us out of work

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    Default Dancer complacency will leave us out of work

    I would like all of you guys who read this to NOT RESPOND WITH REASONS WHY WE CANNOT FIGHT THE WAR ON THE STRIPPER BUSINESS AND WIN!!!!

    As I heard on TV the other week by an artist that does artwork with nude bodies, that the US sees sex as dirty and a crime, and he had to take his work to Europe.

    I am tired of hearing the word stripper used so much by lay people. The stereotype of our industry MUST be changed BY US!

    The US is a shitty country even though it may be better than others.The political process here is controlled by older people with financial security that have a vested interest in keeping politics and the way this country operates the way it is. The more successful a person is in this society the least likely they are to want change.

    Our industry is being legislated out of business city by city and state by state and we as dancers are doing nothing to stop it!

    Melonie is very knowledgeable about the political process and offers a lot of reasons why thinks can't change, but let's look at creative ways you guys that we can put up a fight and let people who have never been in a strip club see the business first hand and attempt to erode the stereotype.

    This site can be a springboard one city at a time in negotiating with city councils and neighborhood groups and in bringing single clubgoers, dancers and young people together to support our cause.

    I DON'T WANT TO SEE ANY NEGATIVE POSTS GUYS!!!! BE CREATIVE. WHAT IDEAS NO MATTER HOW OFF THE WALL THEY ARE DO YOU HAVE ABOUT HOW WE CAN NEGOTITE WHAT WE NEED TO BRING THIS BUSINESS BACK TO LUCRATIVENESS?

    Young people and many non whites don't vote and get involved in the political process as it is run by old white people out of touch with the average 18-30 year old. If we can capture young people who smoke weed, have liberal attitudes about sex and who hate the govt, which many ordinary people feel but don't get involved, we can beat the old family type mentality that is especially over the last 2 years destined to close every club in the country.

    You dancers who are afraid to come out of the closet hurt our cause. Those of us who dance but don't want our men in a club or who see sex as dirty are hurting our cause.

    Granted we don't need dopehead girls representing our cause but many of us can organize enough liberal thinking people, dancers included who can fight hard to CHANGE OUR SYSTEM in this country. The sytem is the problem and all of you that say it won't work have to focus on changing politics by force and not by following the system.

    Clubs in danger of being closed used to gather signatures and constantly have DJ's announce we need your help guys and now it is a quiet fight.

    We don't need more lawyers. They work within the suystem to change things. WE HAVE TO FIGHT THE SYSTEM AND GET LIBERAL PEOPLE ESPECIALLY THE YOUNG AND ALL DANCERS TO PUSH HARD TO GET OUR WAY.

    No negative why this won't work comments please?

    Throw out some creative off the wall ideas of how we can try to salvage this business. It's time for us to stop worrying about what other people think of us and come out of the closet and bring the millions of others like us out of the closet too.

    Decriminalization of marijuana and a full gay rights package is in the same realm as liberalization of the gentlemens club business. Millions of people smoke weed, are gay, work and patronize GC's and we need to mobilize them and let people who stereotype our clubs as bad and breeding crime in their neighborhoods see the knids of people who go in them first hand and start working on eradicating the negative sterotypes NOW before we have no jobs.

    ONLY POSITIVE COMMENTS ON HOW WE CAN DO THIS NO WET BLANKETS PLEASE! DON'T WORRY HOW CRAZY YOUR IDEAS ARE. THE CRAZIER THE IDEAS,THE MORE THEY MAY HELP ACCOMPLISH OUR GOALS! :o :o

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dancer complacency will leave us out of work

    When it comes time to vote, throw a huge party sponsored by the local popular radio station that caters to your target audience. Or have popular bands playing. Offer free food and drinks. That's probably the only way to get a bunch of these types out en masse to a voting booth or meeting. Unfortunately most of the people who would vote on our side are the hardest to convince to get off their asses and VOTE. You could also hit them at big annual parties where lots of them will already be attending, but your message would likely fall on deaf ears at one of those events.

    Hit the college campuses, have rallies. Always offer free food and drink. I hate the way this sounds but these folks will almost always go where there's free food.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: Dancer complacency will leave us out of work

    I am in the process of starting fund raiser's for local organization's that will allow me too, such as orphanages, boy's and girl's club's, homeless shelter's and disaster relief. If we show the community that we care about where we live and want it clean and safe then they don't look down upon us as easily. Letting the community know that we want to be involved in thing's outside the club, we are people too and everything effect's us as much as it does them. Uphold a strong personal image, keep your club area clean and if you drive a piece of shit ..... park it in the back where it can't be seen, try to be as average as possible when in public so as not to illicit stare's and attention. It's not easy when your guilty and have to prove your innocence but it's possible and that is what we all need to do. My neighbor's ( at the club ) hate me and they don't even know me .... how is that fair. There is also an organization called A.C.E ; Association of Club Executive's, They lobby and fight for our right's on congress and the house. I read there magazine monthly and see the bill's that state's pass or try to pass and the club's that fight city's and the help the organization give's those club's. I have a good lawyer and he always know's what's going on in my club and advises me if I need to look into changing thing's. All changes are made under his advise, since he's going to have to represent me if and when I get called on it. I still feel that making the community aware that we care about it is the strongest answer to our problem.

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    Default Re: Dancer complacency will leave us out of work

    Yes that's a good point. It would be nice if dancers could also join the ACE organization - nothing like strength in numbers, but I'm quite sure the 'Execs' don't want us girls in their boys club. I have said more than once that I would be for a stripper organization, provided it's focus is on unfair laws and providing resources such as group health insurance, networking, etc...NOT on suing the clubs. We need to fight those that are against us, not each other!

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: Dancer complacency will leave us out of work

    My club is a member of ACE. We have a little fund where every tipped employee is asked to contribute $1 every day that they work. Not such a bad idea, it kind of get's forgotten about though.

    love and cookies
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    You can't fight gravity, on a planet that insists, that love is like falling, and falling is like this...

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    Default Re: Dancer complacency will leave us out of work

    we are strippers! HEAR US ROAR!

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    Default Re: Dancer complacency will leave us out of work

    The US is a shitty country...
    Gosh, Tina, glad you want to avoid the negatives. IMHO, that kind of damnation on others will not endear others to our cause.

    My positive .02? Volunteer a lot, and let others know what you do for a living. Gut check time girls...If you are proud of what you do, the say it loud and often, but get off your butts and get into the community service PR game. That will get the grass roots folks' attention.

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    Default Re: Dancer complacency will leave us out of work

    Just a note, if things do get moving - I will help in any way I can!

    We must show there is power in the stripper's vote. If dancers can organize for issues and prove they can sway votes and change outcomes - they will get noticed.

    Dancers come in contact with all kinds of men...most men have a weakness for women - that is a strength to be used. Not only that, but a large group of dancers can draw a lot of attention. You women can make a difference if you choose to...the process is usually slow - but I know you can do it. I don't think the time is right for a large movement yet...but it's definitely time to start brewing.

    It's too bad most issues that directly affect dancers are left up to the city and don't make it to voters. An initiative to repeal a club regulation could be used to show your strength...BUT what cities have many vocal dancers?

    My two pennies...

    Another edit (had another idea). If you can find a candidate for some office who will further your cause, you can get vocal for them. As you mentioned, that same candidate will also have other support groups. Seeing strippers get their candidate in office will be impressive.
    We all imagine ourselves the agents of our destiny, capable of determining our own fate. But have we truly any choice in when we rise, or when we fall, or does a force larger than ourselves bid us our direction. Is it evolution that takes us by the hand, does Science point our way, or is it God who intervenes keeping us safe.

    So much struggle for meaning, for purpose. And in the end, we find it only in each other. Our shared experience of the fantastic. And the mundane. The simple human need to find a kindred, to connect. And to know in our hearts... that we are not alone.
    Heroes

  9. #9
    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dancer complacency will leave us out of work

    Certainly I express my reservations in making any type of political drive into a big media circus for fear such efforts could do more harm than good, but there are a few suggestions which I seldom see people try when these ordinances breeze right on through.

    You should begin writing well reasoned letters to the editor of your local paper explaining that the existence of your profession does have some positive impact on the community in the form of tax revenue. Not so much primarily money made by the club itself, but sales tax generated by the purchases that you make at mainstream businesses with your earnings. You need to make people realize when strip clubs are regulated to death, its no different than someone in a "respectable" line of work being laid off. Local businesses have one less customer to get money from.

    Avoid the tired, boring freedom of speech/expression angle, because for one it sounds selfish, and furthermore I think a great deal of people in this country don't respect how important freedom of speech/expression is. In fact, considering the behavior of many in this country when certain people made unpopular statements regarding the recent war, I'd say some of us Americans have outright contempt for this all important principle.

    Another thing you can do is explain to people that every time an ordinance is passed, it is only fair and right that it be enforced properly, but also explain that the police department cannot be everywhere at once, and that one more cop lurking around a strip club is one less cop out on the streets catching speeders, drug dealers, or responding to a domestic disturbance. Therefore this is a second way that the ordinance hits them in the pocketbook.

    A really big point that you really need to nail home to people is this: Just because something is made illegal, doesn't mean that it goes away. Explain to people just how futile these ordinances are in controlling the "negative secondary effects" they keep bringing up. If you regulate strip clubs in order to control prostitution, the prostitutes will just pop up someplace else, or will more likely continue to perform illegal services in the clubs once the media frenzy dies down.

    In the meantime, "clean" dancers have no choice but to either have to move, find far less profitable "mainstream" employment, or start performing extras themselves. How ironic that in an attempt to clean up the clubs, these ordinances in fact just make them worse. Those who comply with the law the most are hurt the worst by it, and those who break it the most, are affected the least.

    And yes, as others have suggested, some good PR campaigns like a charity food drive or toy drive conducted (with your clothes on of course ), certainly couldn't hurt matters. Maybe get some of the more athletic dancers to start a recreation volleyball or softball team sponsored by your club.

    You never know, some dancer pride just might get infectious. I think we'd all respect dancers more and respect what they do if we all knew one personally.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: Dancer complacency will leave us out of work

    Just a couple of comments . Change takes time and the world does not consist only of the MTV generation. I'll leave it at that if you only accept positive or neutral statements.

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    Default Re: Dancer complacency will leave us out of work

    If owners and dancers could get the media to understand that the industry will self regulate, maybe the heat will die down. Private guards keeping the area around the club safe. No action in cars outside the club. Tone down the exterior decor. Get politically involved and don't overlook city council and judicial elections. Treat dancers like employees with wages, hours and benefits. ( This will stop the exploitation in perception and in fact.) Close on Sundays.

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    Default Re: Dancer complacency will leave us out of work

    I just wanted to see some creative ideas towards fighting off the moral majority.

    I understand that change takes time, but if we have a mediation organiztion nationwide that gets out in the community, talks to city hall and tries to get the non strip club going public to understand our business and realize the effect our incomes and spending has on the local economies, then maybe we have a chance of saving a few cities from losing in our business.

    I know it will be a hard fight and we will lose more than we win but just like in any kind of selling, we have to take a lot of losses to get to the wins, and any wins we have will go a long way towards our future success in other cities.

    It is just like driving from Alaska to Florida. It is a long haul, but if you keep at it, eventually you will get there.

    If our actions save 2 cities out of 100, we have accomplished a lot and set the tone from what we learned in the fight to get back in the ring and eventually win the other 98.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Dancer complacency will leave us out of work

    Tina I wish you all the luck in the world - I really do! However, in good conscience I do need to follow up on a point that Catfish posted. It's distinctly possible that your high profile efforts can and will actually make matters worse for clubs and dancers in particular areas due to the political/moral backlash against the publicity you create. Please ask dancers first in areas where you plan on "crusading" whether or not they want your help.

    As far as a positive suggestion, how about this - every dancer in the USA contributes $1000 out of her own pocket, and every clubowner in the USA contributes $25,000 out of their own pocket, for the purpose of BUYING positive publicity in the national media, starting a CREDIBLE exotic dancing lobby by hiring serious connected lobbyists and high profile attorneys, and then making SIZABLE political contributions to particular state legislators and city councilmen in exchange for enough NO votes on proposed dance club laws and ordinances to sink them. THIS is what you need to have behind you if you want to seriously have a chance of making a difference - this is how the labor unions do it, this is how Corporate America does it, this is how cause oriented civic organizations do it !

    I've just finished the week at a Michigan club, and one of the things I found out is that virtually all of the 80 dance club owners in Michigan have banded together to form an "association" which in turn hired lawyers and lobbyists. As a result of their efforts (and I would imagine some well placed lobbying money at the state house) the proposed Michigan statewide no contact law is about to die a slow and agonizing death buried in committee at the state legislature without a single peep of mainstream publicity which would potentially generate political/moral backlash. The Michigan example shows that these laws CAN be beat, but it takes big money, an inside track, and a low profile.

    20 miles away across the Indiana border, the clubowners are taking a different approach - i.e. a high profile attack by a handful of 'over the top' clubowners against the city government who is trying to crack down on them. But with so much front page publicity over the issue - combined with the fact that the city's clubs have a terrible reputation in regard to sleaze, drugs and violence (and not altogether undeserved either), the political and moral backlash has only made the city government more determined than ever to make life miserable for clubowners and dancers as a matter of principle and has guaranteed that the local bible thumpers, housewives and 'fine upstanding citizens' will re-elect the city officials!

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    Default Re: Dancer complacency will leave us out of work

    Ya know, you're never supposed to discuss religion or politics, but re-reading posts in this thread got me to thinking--and that can be a dangerous thing--but, that said. In fairness, although no doom posts were desired :

    In order for any changes in society which loosen the grip on SOB's, including our clubs, you must have popular support--that means more of the populus is with you rather than against you. So, let's see who we have out there:

    --All wives hate us (as strippers)
    --Almost all women who do not dance hate us
    --Most church-goers hate us
    --the vast majority of the country does NOT frequent our clubs--clubs aren't even in all cities!

    That said, how in the world can anyone make the clubs politically popular? We are WAAAAAY too easy of a target.

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    Default Re: Dancer complacency will leave us out of work

    This is a very interesting thread, I hope some of the suggestions are followed. Getting involved in the community is a great way to try to change false impressions. As I see it, another main strength of the church going crowd, the senior citizens, and the soccor mom's who want to regulate this industry is that those groups are very well organized and they VOTE. How many dancers are even registered to vote? Thinking along Tina's baby steps approach, perhaps something as simple as getting dancers/customers registered to vote would help. Maybe you could sign people up right at the club, perhaps giving the customers a free pass to the club if they register right there.

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    Default Re: Dancer complacency will leave us out of work

    Following up on what's been said, never underestimate the power of changing a single person's mind. The more open you are with the fact that you strip, and the fact that it is neither a "dirty business" nor exclusive of anyone with a bit of common sense, the more others are forced to accept the fact that dancers are people too.
    "Just 'cause she dances go-go, that don't make her a 'ho, no.....called up my Mama, said 'I'm in love with this stripper yo.'"
    -Wyclef Jean

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    Default Re: Dancer complacency will leave us out of work

    --All wives hate us (as strippers)
    --Almost all women who do not dance hate us
    --Most church-goers hate us
    --the vast majority of the country does NOT frequent our clubs--clubs aren't even in all cities!

    That said, how in the world can anyone make the clubs politically popular? We are WAAAAAY too easy of a target.
    Not to be negative, but this is my point exactly. Between the 90% of women who will always prefer NOT to have a strip club located in their hometown for their boyfriend/husband to patronize, plus some 50% of men who are either bible thumpers, politicians, or in a 'visible' position i.e. businessmen and professionals with a reputation to maintain, you simply can't ever achieve a popular majority vote in favor of strip clubs. As great as the force of changing one person's mind might be, you simply can't compete with the Hollywood and TV stereotype which reaches into everybody's living room. You certainly can't compete on "moral grounds" when a mayor or preacher gets free press coverage and dancers can't (or worse, dancers are portrayed in the local media as being exactly what the mayor and preacher are accusing them of being !)

    But this fact does not mean that the battle is lost. Sometimes you don't need 100,000 votes from the general public. All you need is 5 or 7 or 9 votes on a city council, or 2 or 4 or 6 votes in a state house committee room. THIS is the arena where the battles for the future of strip clubs must be fought ! This is the arena where corporations and special interests achieve the favorable legal treatment they get. But for strip clubs to achieve the same results, this battle takes MONEY and ORGANIZED STRIP CLUB OWNERS.

    If dancers seriously want to take an active role in their future, consider sitting down with your clubowner, ponying up several hundred dollars per dancer, convince the clubowner to pony up several thousand dollars to match your own contributions, and then start calling every other clubowner in town to try to get the other clubowners and other dancers to do the same. Once the clubowners and dancers are a 'united front' with some money behind them, it's time to register as a Political Action Group , to hire a high powered attorney, and to start lobbying state and city officials BEFORE they propose any anti-dance club laws and ordinances.

    Once a state law or local ordinance is proposed, and the mainstream media gets involved such that dance clubs are brought to the attention of the general public, it is much more difficult to attempt to stop it. The secret is to "get there first" such that the state legislators, mayor and city council members are already somewhat "friendly" to strip clubs (via campaign contributions and lobbying) before the point some bible thumper in the state legislature or on the city council proposes an anti-dance club law or ordinance.

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