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Thread: Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are fair

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are fair

    It really depends on A. how large the stage fee is in relation to potential earnings, and B. how effectively the club is using the stage fees collected to create conditions which will benefit dancers later.

    I'm working in North Jersey this weekend, and the combined cost of stage fees and tipout is about $60. However, the club is not advertised or promoted heavily as far as I can tell, although it has recently been remodeled and they did do some grand reopening promotion. Given that this amount of stage fees and tipout is in the neighborhood of 10% of average earnings potential, which I do not consider it unfair.

    In contrast, about 5 miles away is a well known Manhattan club which charges a $240 stage fee. The club is beautiful, receives promotion from a well known shock jock etc. meaning that this money or some portion of it is being used constructively. However the stage fee alone represents at least 25% of average earnings potential, which would seem to be a bit steep for all except the very 'top earning' girls.

    I guess the bottom line is how much money you actually walk out of a club with at the end of the night/week, after paying all stage fees and tipouts, income taxes, travelling and accomodation expenses etc. I would certainly not mind paying $500 in combined stage fees, tipouts, and splits with the 'house' if I could still walk out with $1000 after taxes and expenses because the club 'invested' previous stage fees into promotion, remodeling etc. to attract high rolling customers. Even though this might represent a 33% 'cut' for the club it would be worth it compared to paying a 10% 'cut' to a different club but only walking out with $500 after taxes and expenses.

    If you're a 'top earner' (which I'm usually not), stage fees, tipouts and splits totalling several hundred dollars are merely a cost of doing business - it takes money to make money. But if you're not a 'top earner' and are still being charged the same several hundred dollar amount for stage fees, tipouts and splits, this can certainly become financially oppressive to the point where it makes sense to switch clubs. This is the whole point of some clubs charging very high stage fees and tipouts in the first place, though, to assure that only the 'top earning' girls with the most to offer the club's customers can afford to work there.

    If I'm given a choice of paying a low tipout and netting $500 after stage fees, tipout, income taxes, travel and accomodation expenses etc. versus paying a high tipout and netting the same $500 after all is said and done, I'd naturally choose the club with lower stage fees - but then again that's just me. Other factors come into play for some girls such as the club's 'status', or the degree of contact (or lack thereof), or the presence of celebrity customers, or other 'intangibles'. But for me it's strictly a cash equation.

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    Featured Member tragic-beauty's Avatar
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    Default Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are fair

    it depends on how much the fee is and how big of a hell holethe club is.. also how good of business they have

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    Default Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are fair

    I voted yes but it's all relative. If the fees are high and there's not enough business to justify it, I'll just skip that club. I agree totally with Melonie - it's completely dependent on how much money I can make there. I'll pay higher fees if I can consistently walk out with more money than at a club charging lower or no fees but doesn't offer as much earning potential. Furthermore, I tend to be a bit skeptical of a club that doesn't charge or charges very low fees - my first thought will be they must not have good business and may be desperate for girls. I know this isn't always the case though, so I'll look around to see for myself.

    I also have learned I don't mind my current club's system of charging $30 for laps through the bar and keeping $10 of that with only a $20-$25 house fee. If I have a bad night it costs me little out of pocket. I figure that $10 cut of my lapdances goes to pay the bouncers who watch the LD / VIP rooms and main floor, and any promotions the club does to bring in more business.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
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    Default Re: IS GIVING THE OWNERS ½ YOUR MONEY TO $400 OKAY

    Personally, I like the stage fee idea, if the club is worth it. That is, do they promote? What is the house count? What ways does the club have to make money? If the club is right, and the stage fee is appropriate, I have no problem paying it.

    Otherwise, the tip out system probably is better. Pay a certain percentage of each dance or drink to the club, and a fixed fee to the DJ.

  5. #5
    Pamela
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    Default Re: IS GIVING THE OWNERS ½ YOUR MONEY TO $400 OKAY

    Renting space as i heard it, and makes sense to me. Just don't go overboard. Some clubs seem too i also read here.
    Pamela

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    Featured Member LEIGH_LANDON's Avatar
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    Default Re: IS GIVING THE OWNERS ½ YOUR MONEY TO $400 OKAY

    Half is extortion! A flat fair fee to dance on the premises, that is understood and acceptable, but half? Fugg that. I would never work a club that took half.
    In Canada, most clubs range around 20-40 fee to work the club. The club already charges exhorbant drink prices, some charge cover for customer, and some charge a vip fee some a flat 10 dollars to use it all day or up to 20 depending on the club (this is a customer charge). Only a select few have vip and private vip booths that depending on the size run from 50 an hour to 200, and the custie pays that and then pays for the girl.
    We dont have a mandatory tip for the deejay I believe in some cases a potion of the floor fees collected are put towards his employ. SOme of us get a reduction in the floor fee from 20 to 10 if we do a stage show - only one req'd. Then in other cases there is no reduction and if you want to skip a stage show you slip the dj a twenty to avoid being called up.

    Compared to some of the stuff Ive read it sounds like we got it good up here!

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: IS GIVING THE OWNERS ½ YOUR MONEY TO $400 OKAY

    yes Leigh, as far as mandatory fees, tipouts and 'splits' with the clubs, Canada is a bargain compared to neighboring northeast states. Here, even in the 'less than top shelf' clubs it's fairly typical for the club to collect up to 33 even 50% of every private dance dollar earned if there is no stage fee charged (i.e. club expects dancer to kick back $5-$10 from every $10-$20 private dance she sells). Even with a substantial stage fee, the clubs still grab a 'piece' of private dance and champagne room money by some means or another (i.e. directly hitting up customer for a second charge, separate customer tip to VIP bouncer etc.). On top of this are 'mandatory tipouts' to the DJ, bouncers & other club staff.

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    Default Re: IS GIVING THE OWNERS ½ YOUR MONEY TO $400 OKAY

    Customers don't have the choice as to how the the tips get dispersed. Whether most go to the house or to the performer was decided once the employee entered.
    I don't know if the customer knows or cares in the first place. The customer usually pays according to the entertainment value they believe they received. When you donate to a charity are you overly concerned as to how much actually goes to the recepient and how much goes to the administration?
    From the owners perspective they are simply providing an environment for performers to conduct their business. Would you even bother thinking about them when you go conducting your business there? They are the ones who have to pay the rent, pay the building codes, do maintenance on the building ,provide security, all the business operations in the background.
    Of course there are those that abuse their status requiring extra "favors" from the girls , charging outrageous fees and fines . In the end all businesses are governed by the law of supply and demand. If they demand too much of customers and employees then they will start losing good employees and customers. I don't know much about running a business so for the most part I can't say much about what operating costs are justified. But if people really believe they are being cheated the solution is to create more competition. If someone is treating you fairer them everyone will be flocking to them and the greedy business's will lose out.
    Most the places around here are independent contractor employers. That means the house charges a set fee and it is up to the contractor whether or not they can operate at a profit.
    Obviously if you operate at a loss you will not work there anymore. So the business kind of self regulates itself.
    Last edited by VenusGoddess; 05-04-2006 at 05:30 AM.

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    Default Re: IS GIVING THE OWNERS ½ YOUR MONEY TO $400 OKAY

    You hit the nail on the head Dreamer! Basic economic principles!

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are

    You could also try to entice Canadian companies to invest in the U.S. unless you feel the trade laws will suck jobs away from good old U.S.A.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are

    If I do a stage show it's $45.00.
    But I have had nights where doing my show has cost me going into the vip booth. So The extra 10 dollars is worth it. But on the odd night where I make no money. The 55 dollars really sucks.

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    God/dess Lena's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are


    It depends on the club.

    I've worked in a couple clubs where there were no laps/vips, just stage. There was a small cover and the drink prices were not insanely high. In those clubs I didn't mind paying a stage fee, since it was the only way the club had of making money off their girls.

    I've worked in other clubs where half or more of all lapdance and vip money goes to the club, and there's a $100 house fee on top of that. Plus you have to tip everyone and their brother. I minded that. But, obviously there are girls that don't mind that or find the money at those places good enough that they ignore those factors.

    Lena



  13. #13
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    Default Re: Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are

    I am not on schedule, the 45.00 is a freelancer fee. To work in the club. Even though it is the only club I work at. If I wanted to be on shift I would get paid by the club, but I would have to work from 4:30 in the afternoon and do 4 or 5 shows.

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    Default Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are fair

    I can't rightfully vote since I am the receiver of those fee's. I will comment though......

    My girl's pay a house fee ( right to work ) and it is very fair to say the least. $8 weeknight's and $12 weekend's. If we have a slow night and the girl's don't seem to be making any descent money on stage, I will amend the fee to better fit the take. It is my job to provide a customer base for the girls to perform to and if they make little or no money, it's because I didn't do my job. I have on occasion lowered the weeknight fee to $4 if it's particularly crappy. I also require the girl's to tip $2 to the doorman for maintaining the stage and mirror's which he sweep's and mop's EVERY DAY, and an extra 2 bux on Saturday night for vacuuming and cleaning up the dressing room. Dj get's 5% of the girl's total earning's for the night. I also receive 1/3 of each lapdance fee.

    As close as I can estimate I get around 30% of the customer's money and the dancer's get the other 70%, that would be a broad average overall. This I would consider good business practice. From what I gather most club's seem to get well over 50% of the customer's money ( door fee, drink's, vip and lapdance fee's, tip out, ect. ) , this i feel is blatant rape.

    Do I feel stage fee's are fair ....... mine, I feel are fair although from what I hear on this forum and have heard from traveling dancer's, most are not.

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    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are

    Just something I noticed in my club. We went from having no stage fees and not having to pay for dances (a year ago) to having to pay $20 to work (which is waived for the week if the dancer goes out promoting for 1.5 hours that week) and $5 fee per $20 dance.

    At first it pissed me off. I was used to making pretty good money and it was making a huge difference. But what also happened is a lot of girls quit....girls that couldn't make the grade or girls that thought the grass was greener on the other side.

    Strangely, I make more money when I pay the club housefees because there are fewer girls and the ones that stayed are the better ones, imo....attracts and retains better customers.

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    Senior Member Mikimoto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are

    I think it depends on how high the fee is.

    If the fee is "just right" it keeps the quality up and the quantity down.

    Kaiya (at theLusty Lady S.F.)

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    Default Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are fair

    I have very few problems with stage fees. I only work at clubs that charge stage fees under 20% of my total earnings including tip out. When you compare that to what an employer pays compared to porductivity, really that is a very good deal.

    Anyone who has managed a business know that payroll should stay at or below 17% of gross income. So if an employee earns $17,000 a year he/she needs to produce $100,000 worth of business income to be considered a productive employee.

    So, as a dancer, when I produce $100,000 I get to keep about $80,000 gross. No wonder why people working in the corporate world are always complianing about just making the boss richer- because they are!


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Featured Member tragic-beauty's Avatar
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    Default Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are fair

    well lately business has been really horrible.. i dont know if im the only one that has noticed this.. and i spend time with almost every single costomer and dont get a bite alot of the time well lately anyways.. and im not the only one feeling the strain.. most girls will barely make tip out.. which in my club.. is 91 on weekends.. and 82 on weekdays.. ive had days were id only make 100 total that day and have to give 91 or 82 of that to them.. i personally think they should help the dancers out a bit by lowering the fee on really bad days.. but i guess they got to make their money.. and its not helping that they are hiering more people on


    i love that my club is clean.. and the management treats the dancers like people.. but i think the owners are a tad greedy..

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    Default Re: Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are

    I hear you Shan, business has been iffy sometimes here too. (Okay, well, most of the time....) Personally, I don't mind stage fees, because, as mean as this sounds, it helps thin out the crowd. A lot of girls don't know about stage fees, and if they're not serious about dancing (i.e. dancing for drug money, looking for hooking connections) they won't be as likely to come in if they know they've gotta pay to work. Yes, stereotypes suck, but it does happen. It also to some degree helps ensure that my working environment is decent. We all talk about how much the management takes from us, and it's true, they do make a lot from dancers. However, at my club we have 3 bartenders, a runner, two doormen, a DJ and a manager around at all times. Not to mention the cost of the lighting, the repairs, the alcohol, the advertisement, the general upkeep....I can understand how the overhead can be high! Not to mention paying out our hourly wages on top of that- 10 girls at $4 an hour can add up, I imagine.
    While I agree with the idea of stage fees, I also think a lot of club owners go a bit far. Shan, I agree that the owners of your club are greedy. 82 on weekdays is ridiculous! Hopefully things will get better, though, and management might get the idea that sending girls home with under $20 is bad.
    "Just 'cause she dances go-go, that don't make her a 'ho, no.....called up my Mama, said 'I'm in love with this stripper yo.'"
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    Senior Member grinew127's Avatar
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    Default Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are fair

    Yes, yes. Without going too much into my past ( nobody is interested in the "wartime" stories). I recall how I got started into this business. Did good in "office" school, finished top in my class and could not get a job. Basline, NO EXPERIENCE!!. Where do I get experience? Not here! Out of desperation, applied for a job at nightclub. Was asked if I ever did dancing. No. Well, get out there and learn. And on top of that, those fee charged were some kind of tuition? Oh, oh, I don't know. It's no wonder I am confused.

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    Default Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are fair

    My club is one of those crazy charging ones.... We have a $75 VIP charge, then house fee on top of that (varies depending on what time you get there), plus dj and housemom.

    since the economy is bad in detroit, it really hurts somedays. Especially since a year ago, we were just being charged $50 a shift for house. However, the fact remains that it's where the money is, and it's not work bothering with the other clubs in the area.

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    Senior Member TaraDoll's Avatar
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    Default Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are fair

    Well, I'm iffy. We have a small club and on the weeknights sometimes it just kills my pockets. Our house fee is $10. Our VIP dances cost $25 and we keep $15, house takes $10. (Every dance) So they almost make 50% off of all our dances. Then we tip the DJ at the end of the night a minimum of $1. So on good nights, not so bad - but on bad nights - really bad... Sometimes I think that if a dancer doesn't get a VIP and has low stage tips that she should be void of giving a house fee.. It's just one way of looking at it. Because I'm driving 40 miles to come into work, that some nights I'll walk away in the hole and I'm thinking, pfft that was a waste of time. But I really do enjoy the club I work at, and will bite the bullet and stay there.

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    Member Anney Dancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are fair

    This whole thing about stage fees is new to me as i worked in the UK and Europe. Is this the same as a house fee? I have done tip outs at the end of the night but never paid to go on stage! I must be missing something here!

  24. #24
    mermaidnz
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    Default Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are fair

    argh why are two year old threads getting revived lately!?

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    Default Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are fair

    I've never thought they were fair because when I started (ok, that was 25 years ago), they didn't exist, so I never adjusted to the whole concept. We just tipped out 10% (and you didn't short them for a variety of practical reasons), and they divvied that up to suit themselves. I liked the idea of tipping out a straight percentage because it created mutual motivation. When I've done real estate deals it's been a straight percentage, and they supply a hell of a lot more assistance to their salespeople than strip joints do, and you don't pay unless you make money (although there are costs, of course--but you have those in stripping and other businesses, too, and of course no business exactly parallels any other).

    I don't see that it's like renting space at a hair salon because hair salons don't make money off drinks and charge to get in. What it's like to me, exactly, is they can get away with an unfair practice, so they make the most of it. Whatever the market will bear.

    But, 25 years ago is a literal generation ago, not to mention that generations in strip joint styles of operation are probably more like 5 years apiece, so it's five strip joint generations ago if you look at it that way. So this is just my 2 cents, not really an argument for or against tipouts.
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