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Thread: studying strip clibs

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    Default studying strip clibs

    Well, this is a nice surprise. I am an anthropologist that has a little time off. I have decided to take advantage of that time and do a cursory study of strip clubs. One of my first internet searches brought me here.

    So let me introduce myself. Call antho101. I am a male and have been doing archaeology/anthropology (dual) for over fifteen years. My interest is in space and representation. I am a fairly regular customer at strip clubs ($$$ is an issue - I just don't make a lot - and time rarely permits many trips). I have always been fascinated by the natue of stripping and the role it plays it in our society (America specifically - Europe and Asia are altogether different).

    I have been perusing many of the posts and looking for trends, ideas, thoughts etc. when I started feeling guilty. I need to let you know I am reading the posts on this forum. Not only is this an honest approach fairly well demanded by my profession but I just feel like I am eaves-dropping and that is something I feel horribly uncomfortable with. further, I may start asking questions soon or throwing out ideas.

    But, if many of you find this objectionable, I will cease. Or, if you find being an object of study objectionable, I will also cease.

    To let you know a little about the project, I am intersted not so much in the culture of exotic dancers, but in the role or place the club and their activities play in society.

    Several of the basic theories are that they are exploitative of women (mostly female and about 50% male anthropologist believe this) while the rest believe it is liberating. What that means is that stripping either reinforces stereotypes of women as highly sexualized, 'out-for-the-money' people whose sexuality is being controlled by men (exploited) or that women finally have the capacity and right to control their sexuality in a manner heretofore unacceptable.

    I also see the strip club as potentially a confrontational arena in which males and females hash out control of sexuality and roles in society.

    So, this is what I am about. If you have any questions observations please feel free to ask.I shall be as honest as possible. Again, if you would like for me to skadoodle of the board, that is fine.

    anthro101




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    Senior Member kennedy's Avatar
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    Default Re: studying strip clibs

    I am THRILLED that you are here, myself. I think this board is a very realistic about the people who work in this industry, and have always (even prior to becoming a dancer) been interested/ curious about the world of erotic entertainment. I am in Canada so many of the issues on this board don't apply to me, however other topics I have seen on here are very close to home and enlightening.

    Are you actually doing a study or something or simply feeding your curiousity? Either way, I hope no one has a problem with your "lurking" (and now posting) here, as I find one of the best things this site does is prove, through our own words, that so many of the nasty stereotypes that come with our line of work are false.

    Enjoy!

    Kennedy [kisses]
    " If I can't be a good example, then I will just have to be a terrible warning."

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    Veteran Member anklefrog's Avatar
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    Default Re: studying strip clibs

    I completely agree with you Kennedy. I have no problem with Anthr101 posting, lurking, and reading here. Of course the stereotype associated with strippers is true to a certain extent that there are always extras, hookers, drug-addicts, and irresponsible dancers out there, all in all this site is not like that at all. We are the positive spectrum!
    It's better to be looked over, than overlooked.

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    Default Re: studying strip clibs

    Ok ok .... just no mazes or ink blot's, I guess I make a good lab rat, just not real motivated at time's .

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    Featured Member LEIGH_LANDON's Avatar
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    Default Re: studying strip clibs

    I completely agree with you Kennedy. I have no problem with Anthr101 posting, lurking, and reading here. Of course the stereotype associated with strippers is true to a certain extent that there are always extras, hookers, drug-addicts, and irresponsible dancers out there, all in all this site is not like that at all. We are the positive spectrum!
    Yes Indeed Strypper-gyrl! We are the positive spectrum! Sometimes we get bashed for it, and an all out flame war errupts but I am so glad you brought that very fact up. Just a little thank you from moi!

    Anthr101 - enjoy the site, as you can tell we sure as hell do! Pryce has made a worldwide locker room for strippers and their conversations, you will be reading for hours on here. SO MANY points of view and emotions and directions these conversations lead into...its absolutely amazing and compelling reading.
    LIVE LONG & PROSPER!
    Leigh Landon

    Never explain yourself to anyone, because the person who likes you doesn't need it and the person that dislikes you won't believe it.

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    Default Re: studying strip clibs


    Anthro,

    This is something I'm also very interested in. I just got done writing a comparative paper about the sex industry as a social institution in different cultures (basically the behaviors associated with it and the social need that it meets). It doesn't say much that isn't commonly available (there was a page limit :-( ) but let me know if you want to see it. Leigh, I promise I am going to send it to you. I'm having computer issues with attatchments, but I'm sorting it out.

    Anthro, there's an article on a site called Laughing Medusa and I think the article is called Stripping: Empowerment or Objectification? You should be able to find it if you do a search. Also, Alysabeth's site, FeministStripper.com has some good articles. My favorite qoute of hers is something like “I tend to think that any aspect of human behavior that manifests regardless of the different centuries and cultures it survives and emerges intact is an essential part of the human condition.” Or something like that.

    Anyways, let us know what you decide about us after observing us :-)

    Lena



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    Default Re: studying strip clibs

    Thank you Lena I am really looking forward to it - did you get enough responses? Did they help?

    Its going to be a good read and I thank u ahead of time for it!!!

    Leigh
    LIVE LONG & PROSPER!
    Leigh Landon

    Never explain yourself to anyone, because the person who likes you doesn't need it and the person that dislikes you won't believe it.

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    Default Re: studying strip clibs

    Go right ahead! I'm sure you're not going to bother anyone, and judging from your intro you don't seem like a troll. The only thing we really don't like here is insulters, flamers and the like. Please join in the discussions!

    As for whether stripping is exploitative or empowering, for me it's the latter. Done right, any job in the sex industry is very empowering for women. In my opinion, in a world that is still very much male-dominated (and likely always will be), sex is THE great equalizer for the women not afraid to use it. It is the one tool we have that will always enable us to level the playing field. Of course the sex industry can be very exploitative of women, but in my opinion, that's only if you let it. Anything can be unhealthy and/or dangerous, depending on whether you use it or allow it to use you.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Veteran Member Kittie's Avatar
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    Default Re: studying strip clibs

    Well said Bridgette. I totally agree.

    And to our new friend......I also do not mind you studying us. I think it's great when people make an effort to understand each other, no matter how different their lives may appear. I hope you find what you are looking for on this site.....no doubt really as there is so much to read through. Happy hunting.

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    Default Re: studying strip clibs

    Thanks for the welcome.

    There is indeed a lot of information on this page. One nice thing is that it affords me the opportunity to 'hear' conversations between people in the business and things are said that would likely never come through in a one on one conversation between a male and female.

    The research is both to feed a personal curiosity as well as write a paper for publication sometime late next year. I am not thoroughly pleased with most interpretations in the field as it is so highly politicized and full of typical and/or pedestrian attitudes that reflect common cultural beliefs rather than well founded anthropological or sociological studies.

    Don't worry about insults or flame wars, I am neither prone to such nor care to involve myself in them. I also have a very high regard for many women in the industry that I have met and the industry as a whole does not bother me at all.

    Lena - any help, pointers, articles etc would be greatly appreciated. I shall pass on the same. In fact, I just ordered 'G-Strings and Sympathy: Strip Club regulars and Male Desire' by Katherine Frank. Mrs Frank was a dancer for many years and became an anthropologist. Her book deals primarily with the males who go to strip clubs rather than the dancers themselves. It should be a very enlightening expose on customers. Of course, I just read the thread below on customers and the 'hate' commentary which sheds light on reverse stereotyping. And the thread on extras was interesting, I was aware of that but was unaware that it may be endemic to the community.

    I will post my initial thoughts on empowerment/objectification etc in a couple of days. However, I have no idea where this research is taking me as I have no preconceived notion, theoretically speaking, of what is going on.

    I will also drop of interesting information I pick up along the way. For example;

    In Taiwan strippers are now regulars at funerals. They are hired to dance at funeral processions and wakes or at the grave side. Very interesting. It has something to do with public expostion of the deceased's virility.

    Anthro101

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    Default Re: studying strip clibs


    I like the oriental versions of strip clubs. In Japan they have sexual harrasment cafe's, where men can pay to sexually harrass women dressed as office workers. They also have molestation cafe's where men can pay to hit on young looking girls. I think these ideas are so cool. I would totally work in a sexual harrasment cafe.

    You know that study or theory or whatever it was that linked a cultures form of therapy (cathartic vs control oriented) to their functionality? I think that's significant in this case. In Japan, if you are a sex offender, there are places you can go to act out appropriately. In the US, sex offenders have to be controlled.

    Lena

    PS Butterflies Of the Night, by Lisa Louis is good if your interested in the Japanese sex industry (tho it's a foreigners somewhat stilted veiw). Behind the G String is also good, if you take it with a couple grains of salt.



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    Default Re: studying strip clibs

    You go to strip clubs to study human behavior? So do I ,however , no body believes me.
    Let me see if I can contribute something to your study. A strip club is a business and nothing more than that. Businesses exist to make money and this one is no different. Do they exploit the workers? No more than any business does. Tell me , do you think your boss pays you what you're worth? Read my poll on exploitation. This feminist non-sense on men exploiting women for the most part is exactly that. No one complains if a woman owns and operates a club.
    Cindy Crawford is a super model because she sells their products- not because she is a pillar of society. She powers the fashion industry and provides jobs for everyone down the line from the clothing sweat shops in Bangladesh to the textile mills.
    She is in great demand because she sells so well, not because of her moral fortitude or personality. Such personal qualities seldomly fuel business.
    Is this exploitation? Call it what you want. I'm sure Cindy doesn't think so. Or she's probably laughing all the way to the bank.
    Does it satisfy society's need? Certainly, it fulfills mans need to fantasize. In the early stages of commercial airlines, it was the dreamers who kept the business alive eventhough by the engineers it wasn't commercially feasible. Dreamers? Hey, that's me.

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    Default Re: studying strip clibs

    Ok ok .... just no mazes or ink blot's, I guess I make a good lab rat, just not real motivated at time's .
    yeah... I really dont want to be part of a Stripper Skinner Box.

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    Featured Member Prester_John's Avatar
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    Default Re: studying strip clibs

    There is always a great debate over where in society the need for SC's and the like come from.

    Are Strip Clubs and strippers exploiting the men by putting an impossible to resist product out there and enticing them to give up money that sometimes they can’t afford? Or does the SC exist due to the Male need for that sort of voyeuristic sexuality, and its only the effect - not the cause - of those male needs?

    Personally, I subscribe to the latter, because the former discounts male free will and responsibility (or the lack there of). However, the former is the basis of much of the moral objection to the sex/sensuality industry in general. I would love to read academic research into both views.

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    Default Re: studying strip clibs

    Sexual Harrasment Cafe's!!! Never heard of that. That is fascinating. That sheds a little light on the industry in a comparative fashion. Western Judeo-Christian cultures tend to use guilt to control human behavior, Middle eastern cultures tend to use shame to channel human behavior and eastern cultures tend find places/spaces to allow certain behaviors. (all very gross generalizations).

    Using the above premise, how does a strip club come to act as a controller of behavior rather than an outlet for behavior? If it is at all. Strip Clubs may be outlets wherein contradictory notions of society are worked out and settled.

    For example, here is one idea I am working with;

    predominantly in American history men have been the wage earners and family supporters (financially) and marriages have often been arranged or settled with this in mind. The greater the potential income the better chances a man has of acquiring a desirable mate. The old 'men marry for looks and women for money' idea. The basic idea being women a purchasable commodities.

    Since WWII women have been entering the workforce in ever greater numbers and since the 70s the number of financially independent women has grown exponentially. The bargaining power men once had has been eroded to a certain extent.

    At the same time, the number of strip joints has grown astronomically (some 2,500 strip clubs+ now).

    Coincidence - maybe, but I do not really believe in coincidence. So, anthropoligically speaking speaking, it seems as if there is a notion (women/intimacy) can be purchased or leveraged with money. This flies in the face of the increasing financial independence of women which has allowed females to lessen the impact or effectiveness of that traditional monetary bargaining power.

    Culturally, these contradictory notions have to be addressed (or are addressed). In this sense, the strip club brings the notion and the reality together and to a certain extent deals with the problem. So that when a man enters a strip joint he is actually purchasing intimacy. He affirms his belief (tradition) that intimacy or women are purchasable or that money often helps in his bargain. By stripping, women affirm this belief but at the same time deny it.

    The rejection of the male notion occurs when he walks out of the door. The intimacy he purchased was short lived and existed only in a very controlled atmosphere. The strip joint affects the notion in such a way as to render it meaningless outside the club (there are also internal club dynamics that effect this).

    This is just a thought that has to be completely worked out. But I like it. So hats off Lena for plugging me in that direction.

    As for lab rats. The best thing about being an anthropological lab rat is that you don't have to do anything - except answer annoying questions.

    Nothing is just a business -- LOL -- want a critique of McDonalds? LOL

    anthro101

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    Default Re: studying strip clibs

    I think you could go any direction with it and it would still make sense. There are a zillion theories, and most of them make sense (tho it's suprising how many don't).

    I think in todays world you have to take into consideration that everybody has an entirely different background going into the club. There are no two girls who dance in the same way, and very few customers who "shop" in the same way. So it's inherent cultural meaning is different even to different people in the same club.

    Some people do go to clubs to buy/sell intimacy. Others are looking for a sense of importance, or an opportunity to degrade or control a dancer (which is the opposite of intimacy, since it creates distance). And some really are just looking for entertainment.

    The thing that I'm hung up on, though, is why? Why does every culture in the world have men paying women to dance naked, or dance sensually? Even cultures that didn't exactly have an entertainment budget...

    Lena



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    Default Re: studying strip clibs

    Holding my trusty monkey wrench at the ready, don't forget to test your theories on the mirror image case of male strip clubs with female customers. The same basic motivations which exist between female dancers and male customers are much easier to see clearly in male strip clubs.

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    Default Re: studying strip clibs

    touche

    I have limited experience with male strippers, to wit;

    When I worked as a waiter some two decades ago my 'protege' at this upscale resteraunt (300.00 tips on saturday) moonlighted as a male stripper. or, probably more accurately, he moonlighted as waiter. He was a naturally handsome and swarthy Italian who landed 'the golden cow' as he called it. He stripped as often as he could (no male clubs but there were quite a few reviews in the area) and did extra's on the side. The extra's were the golden cow (so called because gold=money and the cow=the type of women he slept with most often). He was a non-stop riot in the resteraunt, seemed well adjusted and was, to all appearances, the consumate gentleman.

    The other male I knew who became a stripper was a body maniac. he treated his body like a temple, was attractive to stunning (women were constantly hounding him) but rarely dated. His standards for a mate were very very high. He seemed content if not a bit lost considering goals and aspirations. Hence, after a stint in the military he found he had nothing to do and starting stripping. I lost contact with him as he moved to Houston and I went out to California but I found out later he had become part of 'the circuit' in houston and was routinely dating others strippers (female, complete hetero here), drinking heavily and others.

    As for myself, several of my girlfriends have enjoyed both male and female clubs. I have only been to a few male clubs. Often, in less well frequented places (ie. Kansas City) males are not allowed in the showroom until after the show is over, then there is mixing and mingling. Presumably, males would not react to kindly to seeing their significant others prancing with other men and the potential for conflict is great. That's just my guess. It seems women are a little less territorial with regards to this type of activity.

    But I have managed to visit a few with girlfriends but only in New orleans and dallas area. Both clubs were bi so there were more males in the audience than females.

    However, I think the same applies to male clubs and female clubs. With regards to my previous post, males also have to work out the new found relationship between males and females. Again, as males have ceased to become the exclusive wage earners and females have significantly improved their lot with regards to financial independence they have begun supporting males.

    The roles are flipflopping now. There is a greater number of stay at home dads and even talk of 'trophy husbands.' So, as males become more aware of this facet of the exchange one would find more male strippers popping up.

    But this all just the money angle and conflicts within society regarding the proper or acceptable place for males and females. There are other aspects that I am working on.

    What is interesting about the strip clubs is that this is one of the places where the conflict in proper/acceptable/permissable gender roles are being hashed out.

    But uhhh, yes Pamela, thanks for bringing that to my attention beause I had placed that thought aside entirely for the time being.

    I am going to vegas shortly, perhaps I can talk my significant other into going to male review.

    anthro101

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    Default Re: studying strip clibs

    Anthro, may I refine your original thesis of men marrying for sex and women for money. A better analysis is that men are reacting to geneticly programed stimulus that has been inherited by evolution. Likewise women are programmed to seek the best genes. Men are attracted to such obvious characteristics as large breasts,youth and wide hips. Less obvious traits such as symetry, thin lips, and close eyes. Such traits are obviously visible in a strip club however for women, their programming is not so centralized. They may be attracted to riches which might not be present in a club or power and prestige of a congressman. In short , the clubs aren't necessarily their hunting grounds.

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