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  1. #201
    Member carmenlove's Avatar
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    Default Re: All ethnic dancers please read

    Quote Originally Posted by MonicaF View Post
    I've never seen so much blatent racism in my LIFE since getting into porn.
    its ironic, i said the exact same thing about college. I had never seen so much blatant racism and actual hate crimes until i went to college.
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    What's somebody like you doing in a place like this?

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    Featured Member Otoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: All ethnic dancers please read

    Quote Originally Posted by lafemmediva View Post
    Cherryrain: I love you amorsito! And you said it right. Plain and simple. This is my type of woman! I am bi BTW. LOL.

    Yes ladies, I know some of you are hating my style and honesty, but for at least once in your lifetime HAVE AN OPEN MIND, I know this hurts and the truth is getting in your soul, but you have to open your mind to others opinions and intelligent suggestions, INSTEAD you are FUGHTING - 'leave it alone my loves'.
    Who cares if they are racist? LOL. Why are you so focused on a subject that is worthless and neverending, my only advise is seek therapy, seek a different club or seek a different biz.

    And I know you dont like it, I know, but I am being nice by advising this to your 'little brain'.

    Move forward my loves! Life is great! You people are still living in the PAST and that is very very unhealthy.
    Oh well, thats how healthy the results of your life will be as WELL.

    Good luck! Mine is YUMMY!
    I am OutTiE! Muah! An remember open your mind, you might learn something that will lead you to a better life,
    Do us all a favor and try to be a little more condescending. You'll probably break a record.

  3. #203
    Featured Member Otoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: All ethnic dancers please read

    Quote Originally Posted by lafemmediva View Post
    Again, the way you view the world is the way you view yourself.

    If you only knew who I was and where I live your would be kissing my feet.
    Wow. Nevermind my previous post. You really did bring on the pretentiousness. Congratulations.


    Now, you are a stripper, and basically by your vocabulary nt even a cop will listen to you if you complain. Learn to choose the right words when exchanging thought with intelligent individuals.
    *Applauds* The irony of this post is just so full of WIN.


    Your complains are getting old, same old, gets boring, very general and -excuse my language: MIERDA.
    First of all, the correct word is COMPLAINT. Secondly, if you're so bored by everyone's beef with racism, then go somewhere else so we don't have to deal with your pseudo-self-help tirades.

    I feel pity for you.
    Gosh, that makes me feel so warm and fuzzy inside.

  4. #204
    Featured Member Otoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: All ethnic dancers please read

    Quote Originally Posted by davka View Post
    I am willing to put myself in a dangerous situation to confront racism. I have been arrested for it. I have been hospitalized for it. I would not ask that of any woman of color or anybody else. I didn't advise any behavior except to other white dancers to speak up and not just sit back and enjoy our privilege. This is a policy I try to live by.

    Then the thread became a basic discussion of racism and that's where we are. No one is saying to go and picket the clubs or take on the klan. I was saying it's good to have this place for us to be realistic and talk about these things in safety and you came on and said we were imagining things and it's all about sales and harmless human nature.

    Nowhere did I advise any women of color to confront any racism. I would never tell a woman of color how to deal with racism. I said I personally forfeit my privilege when I can to speak out against that shit. Then an honest dialogue started about racism and I disagreed that it is all about sales because I find that attitude to be very silencing and dismissive.
    You know, the more you post, the more I like you. I'm really glad you're on this thread.

  5. #205
    Featured Member Otoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: All ethnic dancers please read

    Quote Originally Posted by CherryRain View Post
    there was alot of negativity going both ways between you and
    lafemme ....you seemed to be attacking her for having a contrary opinion...but i do understand your point
    Have you been reading lafemme's posts? Does her tone appeal to you? Because I find her condescending bullshit offensive.

  6. #206
    Featured Member Otoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: All ethnic dancers please read

    Quote Originally Posted by Alia_of_the_Knife View Post
    It really is crazy talk. I live in the North, in big, liberal, kumbayah cities where everyone votes Obama and children sleep on golden beds, and I have been treated worse in those clubs. My best clubs have tended to be backwoods, rural, or blue collar establishments.(Tina, the o.p. has worked mostly in rural establishments in the midwest.) The fact is, almost every club has some degree of racism, (most public establishments do, whether they are restaurants or schools), so going to some magical land where you won't have to deal with it is silly.

    When I can get my foot in the door, I tend to run circles around most of the white strippers. This is mostly due to what I have learned here as well as simply having more of a work ethic and drive. Often this leads to even more mistreatment due to the fact that "black girls are not supposed to do so well unless they are turning tricks" attitude that many of my coworkers have. The trick is often just getting my foot in the door instead of being given the run around with the whole hiring freeze b.s. or too many girls working b.s. only for some chubby, drug addicted, white girl to get hired. Almost all of these clubs OVER book white girls (just look at the bazillion posts on here complaining about working with too many dancers) but many of these places only have 1 or 2 black girls? To act like black women or black people in general are either simply imagining racism or even causing it themselves is both absurd and insulting. Hell, the original topic was advice and not so-called "whining".
    Exactly. It's about the people who run the club. I think girls who are used to having to hustle and compete (esp in the cities) tend to bank in small rural clubs because most of the girls there are complacent.

  7. #207
    Featured Member Otoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: All ethnic dancers please read

    Quote Originally Posted by veronicachick View Post
    my mom told me something that made me think... we are from Brasil and she said she never understood the weight that people place on the color of someone's skin here in America. I wonder if other countries around the world struggle with this issue like we do.


    a bit off topic but...
    I never really understood the thin line between race and nationality.... I always thought the color of someone's skin and where they are from are two different things. But around here, for instance, if you say a hispanic(light skinned) person is white they get very offended. Why does white= american?
    The idea that "true" Americans are Anglo in descent is common in homogeneous communities. You encounter that a lot less in more diverse places. As for Brazil: the way I understand it, the color of your skin isn't very important because it doesn't indicate a certain "history" for you. In America, however, being Black brings up the history of slavery in America, and all the stupid racial stereotypes that come with it.

    I think racism effects Black dancers more than any other because the "exotic" aspect doesn't occur to most people. Instead, they just see "All American, Apple Pie, Cheerleader" white girl, vs "The Black Chick". Just let me know how many non-white Hooters girls you've seen in your life (and read their contract, it's fucking insane). This idea of "American" being linked with "whiteness" has been around since the colonies, but "othering" immigrants was one way to gain support for denying them equal rights. Irish immigrants used to be depicted like dogs in political cartoons, and were assigned many of the same negative characterizations that were given to black people (lazy, dumb, criminals, etc etc). Making Irish people "one of them" made it easier for mainstream society to dick them out of equal pay, equal rights, and civil treatment.

    Jim Crow didn't end too long ago. Negative associations with "blackness" and "otherness" are still very strong. "Equal Opportunity" is still so far away that it's a fucking joke. We're getting there, but no where near fast enough.

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    Featured Member Otoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: All ethnic dancers please read

    Quote Originally Posted by forevernaked View Post
    I have absolutely no problem speaking up against racism and ignorance. Money comes and goes, but I've got the same soul forever. If I shrug in the face of racism, I'm letting myself down, letting my parents and teachers down (they taught me better), and letting down all the beautiful dark-skinned people in my life, including aunts and uncles, cousins, and innumerable friends. If I hear some racism bs and keep my mouth shut, I would hate for my silence to be taken as agreement.
    Exactly. I think of it as similar to people not speaking up against Nazi propaganda. If more people had opposed it, I doubt it could have escalated into the Holocaust, or at least nothing quite so large.

  9. #209
    Featured Member Otoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: All ethnic dancers please read

    Quote Originally Posted by carmenlove View Post
    its ironic, i said the exact same thing about college. I had never seen so much blatant racism and actual hate crimes until i went to college.
    Where the fuck do you go to college???

  10. #210
    God/dess chanzep's Avatar
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    Default Re: All ethnic dancers please read

    Im shocked and disspointed that girls in the USA have to put up with this crap, we don't have thi problem in the uk, and it is not right for club owners to act this way at all.
    xoxo

  11. #211
    Newbie lafemmediva's Avatar
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    Default Re: All ethnic dancers please read

    Racism is wrong (period) I don't dwell on it, I move on. I don't have self help, I have a mentor, I am the owner of 3 houses and building a huge business as we are speaking, I recommwnd weveyone gets a mentor. The sad thing is the amount of ignorance of certain individuals on this site, pitiful. If I can give a hwlpful advise to the ladies who need it I will share my way of building my success with you, and that's what you want. Envious people as Otoki hate to see and hear tohers success because they can do it and she obviously can't. So he point is again, MOVE ON, don't dwell on that negativity or you will end up suffering this and other crap your whole life, of course don't let anyone step on you, but see them as pitiful mediocre little people as I see the ones trying so hard to lower my beautiful way of being. Ladies MOVE ON! Is wrong and we all know that but MOVE ON. Trust. Me, you follow a leader and you'll get far, you follow the crowd (otoki and others) and you'll head ther way, which is the dead end. Otoki I'm not competing with you on who's post will people listen to, people know what's right and the doifference between oignorance amd rage and intelinghence and success. Who would you rther listen to? Obviously I sense so much rage and hatred for yourself, the way you express yourself should put you on a mental hospital, I would figure substance abuse?

  12. #212
    Newbie lafemmediva's Avatar
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    Default Re: All ethnic dancers please read

    I got a long day tomorrow, ivesting 6 digits on a project, so ladies remember what I said. I love you alll! God Bless!

  13. #213
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    Default Re: All ethnic dancers please read

    unless you own those houses outright, you don't 'own three houses'. and somehow i bet you aren't mortgage-free.

  14. #214
    Veteran Member reese_x_c's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lafemmediva View Post
    Racism is wrong (period) I don't dwell on it, I move on. I don't have self help, I have a mentor, I am the owner of 3 houses and building a huge business as we are speaking, I recommwnd weveyone gets a mentor. The sad thing is the amount of ignorance of certain individuals on this site, pitiful. If I can give a hwlpful advise to the ladies who need it I will share my way of building my success with you, and that's what you want. Envious people as Otoki hate to see and hear tohers success because they can do it and she obviously can't. So he point is again, MOVE ON, don't dwell on that negativity or you will end up suffering this and other crap your whole life, of course don't let anyone step on you, but see them as pitiful mediocre little people as I see the ones trying so hard to lower my beautiful way of being. Ladies MOVE ON! Is wrong and we all know that but MOVE ON. Trust. Me, you follow a leader and you'll get far, you follow the crowd (otoki and others) and you'll head ther way, which is the dead end. Otoki I'm not competing with you on who's post will people listen to, people know what's right and the doifference between oignorance amd rage and intelinghence and success. Who would you rther listen to? Obviously I sense so much rage and hatred for yourself, the way you express yourself should put you on a mental hospital, I would figure substance abuse?
    In actuality there are more people willing to sit by and do nothing about the issue than speak up about it like some of us are doing....so who's really being leader and follower here?
    “ROFL @ ''hipacricks''...greatest fuck-up of a word EVER in the history of the internet.--another forum






  15. #215
    Veteran Member Luxurious1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davka View Post
    it wasn't uncalled for. i am tired of people not talking about how racist whites are. you act as if this is some prominent discussion in the world. It isn't. It does not go both ways equally. There is no comparison. Look around you and you will hardly see equality anywhere, so don't try to imagine it up in this case.

    It does not go both ways equally.

    Yes. Blacks obviously cannot be racist towards whites or latinas. okay. I know what I have seen and been called. to me it goes both ways. Im not trying to belittle anyone by telling them they are imagining things
    Originally Posted by ViolaStrings
    Move on, move forward. There's a rainbow of cocks out there.

    *I gotta remember this!*

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    prejudice is not racism.

    racism is when the establishment backs you. in america, that means only whites are racist.

    prejudice is ethnic hatred. that means anyone can be prejudiced.

    i am only referring to practical definitions of each word.

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    Featured Member Otoki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxurious1 View Post
    Yes. Blacks obviously cannot be racist towards whites or latinas. okay. I know what I have seen and been called. to me it goes both ways. Im not trying to belittle anyone by telling them they are imagining things
    I believe davka is pointing out that there is more "acceptable" or institutionalized and internalized racism in our culture towards people of color rather than the other way around. She is not saying racism going in the other direction doesn't exist.

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    Featured Member Otoki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lafemmediva View Post
    Racism is wrong (period) I don't dwell on it, I move on. I don't have self help, I have a mentor, I am the owner of 3 houses and building a huge business as we are speaking, I recommwnd weveyone gets a mentor. The sad thing is the amount of ignorance of certain individuals on this site, pitiful. If I can give a hwlpful advise to the ladies who need it I will share my way of building my success with you, and that's what you want. Envious people as Otoki hate to see and hear tohers success because they can do it and she obviously can't. So he point is again, MOVE ON, don't dwell on that negativity or you will end up suffering this and other crap your whole life, of course don't let anyone step on you, but see them as pitiful mediocre little people as I see the ones trying so hard to lower my beautiful way of being. Ladies MOVE ON! Is wrong and we all know that but MOVE ON. Trust. Me, you follow a leader and you'll get far, you follow the crowd (otoki and others) and you'll head ther way, which is the dead end. Otoki I'm not competing with you on who's post will people listen to, people know what's right and the doifference between oignorance amd rage and intelinghence and success. Who would you rther listen to? Obviously I sense so much rage and hatred for yourself, the way you express yourself should put you on a mental hospital, I would figure substance abuse?
    If you feel like shrugging off racism, or just writing racist people off as "small", that's your prerogative. However, to belittle those of us who feel something should be done about it is rude, and your CONDESCENDING attitude and tone are antagonizing a few of us, me among them.

  19. #219
    Featured Member Otoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: All ethnic dancers please read

    Quote Originally Posted by lafemmediva View Post
    Racism is wrong (period) I don't dwell on it, I move on. I don't have self help, I have a mentor, I am the owner of 3 houses and building a huge business as we are speaking, I recommwnd weveyone gets a mentor. The sad thing is the amount of ignorance of certain individuals on this site, pitiful. If I can give a hwlpful advise to the ladies who need it I will share my way of building my success with you, and that's what you want. Envious people as Otoki hate to see and hear tohers success because they can do it and she obviously can't. So he point is again, MOVE ON, don't dwell on that negativity or you will end up suffering this and other crap your whole life, of course don't let anyone step on you, but see them as pitiful mediocre little people as I see the ones trying so hard to lower my beautiful way of being. Ladies MOVE ON! Is wrong and we all know that but MOVE ON. Trust. Me, you follow a leader and you'll get far, you follow the crowd (otoki and others) and you'll head ther way, which is the dead end. Otoki I'm not competing with you on who's post will people listen to, people know what's right and the doifference between oignorance amd rage and intelinghence and success. Who would you rther listen to? Obviously I sense so much rage and hatred for yourself, the way you express yourself should put you on a mental hospital, I would figure substance abuse?
    Also, I wanted to point out the hilarity of boasting about one's "intelinghence".

  20. #220
    Veteran Member Alia_of_the_Knife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxurious1 View Post
    Yes. Blacks obviously cannot be racist towards whites or latinas. okay. I know what I have seen and been called. to me it goes both ways. Im not trying to belittle anyone by telling them they are imagining things .
    Racism is a lot more than simply being called "names".
    Quote Originally Posted by vbmenu_register("postmenu_1597376", true); View Post
    Uh, unless she went at that bush with a jar of shoe polish, she doesn't look much like a natural blonde to me!
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  21. #221
    Featured Member veronicachick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alia_of_the_Knife View Post
    Racism is a lot more than simply being called "names".
    i dont think she said it is tho.

  22. #222
    Veteran Member davka's Avatar
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    Miabella is absolutely right. We are talking about institutionalized, systemic racism, not just name-calling. To be white and say since you were called a few names that you have experienced racism is, in my opinion, ignorant and delusional. If someone calls you a cracker or a white bitch or whatever and you walk away thinking you are on some equal footing of feeling bigotry, you really have no idea what people of color have to live with. There are no words in the arsenal of mean words used against white people that have any equality with the words used to assault people of color, mainly because those specific words are backed by history and when they are heard, they evoke a living experience of trauma.

    Do you know that as late as the 1920's in this country lynching photography was in vogue for postcards? Photographs of murdered and lynched black bodies were mass circulated through the US postal system and considered funny, interesting, novel? That is not even 100 years ago. In a historical context with a special focus on human memory and trauma, that is so fresh and recent. That is something white people have never had to live with. (www.withoutsanctuary.org) <--- DON'T GO THERE IF YOU ARE EASILY DISTURBED.

    Do you realize that police brutality is the modern form of lynching and it is a HUGE problem. That if you are black, especially male, you can be murdered by pigs in a second and no one but your own community seems to care or think it was even illegal. Amadou Diallo. Sean Bell. This means that the public always perceives you as a threat and never a person and cops are given full license to just murder you when they feel like it. I was in a bar once and a cop walked in singing white power anthems. I tried to report him and nobody gave a shit. If you are white, you are protected from this and when you hear a name called it doesn't even come close to this. Google COINTELPRO and take a look at what the US government does to black leaders.

    As white people we have the huge privilege of seeing ourselves represented EVERYWHERE- barbie dolls, band-aids, television, presidents, sitcoms, EVERYWHERE. When you study psychology and group identity, you know that this is a big part of building community, feeling apart of things, creatively working out problem within the community. Constantly seeing white faces everywhere just reinforces the trauma of feeling OTHER all the time, something that as women we can understand, but not to the extent that I am speaking of, but being a woman and a dancer is a great jumping off point to understanding these greater forms of bigotry.

    These are just small examples. It goes on and on. Just look at the racism in the current election.

    Anyway what I am saying is that I agree with Miabella. Prejudice goes both ways. Racism does not. It is important that we reserve that word for the unique phenomenon of systematic, institutionalized prejudice towards people of color. If we use that word to go both ways, it loses its power to really speak of a specific reality and we cannot have that because these things must end.

    it's sort of when a man calls you a slut and you are trying to figure out a word that has equal hurt power to call him. what do you say? little dick? even that doesn't touch the years of living with sexism that i feel when i hear "slut" from a guy. doesn't mean the words have complete power over me, but there exists no words with equal hate behind them toward men.

    and i have nothing to say to lafemmediva since i understand her to be completely missing the point and engaged in a monologue of such unreality, i don't even know where to begin!
    Originally Posted by ViolaStrings
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  23. #223
    Veteran Member davka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otoki View Post
    Also, I wanted to point out the hilarity of boasting about one's "intelinghence".
    haha yeah. what the hell is she talking about?
    Originally Posted by ViolaStrings
    I get turned around when my boyfriend does the helicockter. I'm totally visual.

    http://www.davkadeergirl.com


  24. #224
    Veteran Member davka's Avatar
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    Oh wait I noticed now you were talking about prejudice from black people towards other people of color. A little different, but I think it still holds true to the lack of systematic, institutionalized structure, so I wouldn't call it racism. I would call it prejudice. Not that there isn't systematic racism towards latinas, that isn't what I meant. I guess I meant coming from black people.

    complicated...
    Originally Posted by ViolaStrings
    I get turned around when my boyfriend does the helicockter. I'm totally visual.

    http://www.davkadeergirl.com


  25. #225
    Featured Member Otoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: All ethnic dancers please read

    Davka, while I understand what you're saying about defining racism as institutionalized, I tend to disagree. I feel any bigotry based on a person's color is racism.

    That's definitely a highly-debated issue in gender studies.

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