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Thread: Question about modeling

  1. #1
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    Default Question about modeling

    O.K. this is going to sound a little funny so please bare with me. I work as a graphic designer. I am trying to get a fantasy art portfolio together in the vein of Boris Vallejo, Julie Bell, Frank Frazetta, Olivia etc. I'd like to get models to use for reference poses. However I cannot pay a professional model at this time. I've thought of approaching a dancer or several dancers about posing.
    Due to the nature of the type of art I think dancers would be the perfect fantasy models. Athletic bodies, fluid movements and very sensual. I would be willing to give acknowledgement to them as the model on any prints that are made. In the near future a website will be made where the model photos could be posted and they could use as reference. And of course they get immortalized as a piece of art. To clarify, the photos would be digital and the models would be nude. They would be required to pose with weapons (swords, axe etc) and possibly armor.
    My question I guess would be, what would be the best way to approach a dancer with this proposition, and what, in your opinions do you think the reaction of most dancers would be? Have any of you encountered an experience like this. Your help is much appreciated..

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about modeling

    Hunter, if you can't offer a dancer cash in exchange for modeling then you'll at least have to offer her something which she can use to generate cash. Being "immortalized" in a work of art won't cut it. I might suggest that since you have a digital camera that you offer to also shoot a CD worth of digital photos free of charge which the dancers can then use elsewhere.

  3. #3
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Question about modeling

    Agree with Melody.

    Also, you may be making the assumption that because a dancer is willing to be naked indoors, within some boundaries, for pay, that she would be willing to do so for who knows how many thousands of people, in photographs that last forever, for free. Some may be willing to do that, but you shouldn't just make that assumption.

    It would be a tough sell to talk to a dancer about modeling, acting as though you're an accomplished or professional photographer, but still obviously trolling a strip club for a dancer who would pose for free because you can't afford a fee. Most people work for a living.

    Being "immortalized in a work of art" probably sounds better to the artist with a vision than the person who's being immortalized without knowing how it's going to turn out. She just knows she's getting naked for a guy with a camera. That's not necessarily appealing.

    I hope this didn't sound too harsh. You should be able to find an art model for a fairly nominal fee, particularly if you have some type of credentials or prior work to show her.

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    Default Re: Question about modeling

    I second that. I've been an artist's model for about 8 months now and they definitely don't pay me enough to put a serious dent in [anyone's bank account. Try posting an ad on a college campus nearby, or putting a want-ad in the local paper. For an amateur model, you should expect to pay about $50-75 for a 3-4 hour session, possibly higher since it's nude.
    "Just 'cause she dances go-go, that don't make her a 'ho, no.....called up my Mama, said 'I'm in love with this stripper yo.'"
    -Wyclef Jean

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    Default Re: Question about modeling

    I started writing several different replies to this offer help.

    Everything here boils down to if you are any good at this you should have a portfolio of work that you can shown a prospective model to interest her in your project.

    Finding a stripper may be nice in your mind but you may have to settle on the girl from the burger stand in a bikini until you have sold some of your projects to pay for a professional model (stripper).


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    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about modeling

    I had a guy offer me a similar proposition. There are so many reasons not to do it and so few to do it. (and I didn't do it)

  7. #7
    Pamela
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    Default Re: Question about modeling

    Well i agree with all, however some dancers may just be flattered. especially the newbies breaking in. They can tell customers and friends to go to a web site and see them.

    I started that way with Harleys. Did it free, just to have my picture advertising for a local bike shop. And that of course is different.

    Now, being older and wiser, i lay on a guys bike for $20, sometimes the jerk will snap away, and i jump off quickly. Now i make sure it's TWO simple shots for that price. I am not nude, but very close. Besides i have been approached at work many times, and other places at times.
    I want money in hand in exchange for photos taken of me. And i don't do nudes any more. Like i said some girls may be flattered, and go for it. Others would just walk away. It's going to be tough for you without offering them a fee. Time, travel, and set up, and change out are not fun to alot of women. And the damn lights are HOT.
    Good luck! Pamela

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    Default Re: Question about modeling

    I have a steady flow of people coming through my club, handing out card's and offering stardom to foolish little newbian princesses. They offer financial splendor through the internet or film industry, unrealistic amount's of cash, the like's of which they will never see.
    They pitch it well and make it sound so good that some are hard to not consider. We have a guy that come's around who make's cheap 19.99 truck stop stag movie's. He offer's the girl's a few c-note's to do masturbation flix or girl/girl, more if they do straight out porn with a guy. Then there's the guy's with business card's and website's that wanna take lotsa pic's and run them on paysite's so everyone get's rich... everyone but the model that is !!!! Shit these creep's have even offered me money to give them girl's to work for them, Yeah like that's gonna happen!!
    I don't personally condone these thing's, or private party's for that matter ( a whole other story ). What I try to get the girl's to realize is that this shit ( pic's and movie's ) don't go away ..... never. When you stop dancing and you try to settle into a more family oriented lifestyle, you can walk away from the club and your whole career will fade away into non existence.
    Now imagine 25 year's after you retire from dancing. You and your S/O sittin on the porch ( give or take 55 year's old ) watchin the world go by. Bang .... outta no where ..... here are those pic's or that movie, smackin you in the back of the head ( literally ). Think about the possibility that niece's and nephew's, grand children will still have access to that same material you starred in all those year's ago. I would hate to pay the therapy bill for the grandson that inadvertently found out he's been yankin his crank to vid's of his gramma ... yuck. The thing is, those thing's never ever go away. Model release's promise you that when you sign them.
    I have picture's of my girl's on my website. They are all dressed in clothing they can generally wear in public. If a dancer leave's ( quit/fired ), I can promise you that b4 she get's home that night, all her picture's are taken off the site. I have computer in the club and my webmaster also work's for me at the club too. I also don't require my girl's to be posted, I ask if they wouldn't mind and most like to be posted, of coarse my webmaster is slacking of late.

    In light of all that and to some what sum it up. I guess what I wanted to say is remember the present you are living is the past you must one day live with. It's way easier to leave it behind if there isn't any recorded material laying around to surface later.

    No reflection on the poster, since I feel what he want's to do is use picture's of women to gauge proportion and muscle tone to translate to cartoonish artwork that will probably only slightly resemble the subject in the photo. This did seem to be where this thread was going though.

  9. #9
    Veteran Member NYCjacqueline's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about modeling

    thehunter -
    everyone is right about not offering $$ for the work - i also model in NY, and the ONLY time i will model without pay is when doing test shots with top photographers who have a solid client list (clinique, channel, lever 2000, allure & W magazine, etc...)

    Unless the girl, like Pamela said, is flattered and is a new dancer, you won't get much of a bite from a dancer.
    Try this website: www.onemodelplace.com
    there are a lot of startup models on this site, and many of them do nudes - you can also see some of the images they've done in the past, to get an idea of what they are/are not comfortable with.

    good luck!
    Jax
    "You have no idea what a long-legged gal can do without doing anything." -Claudette Colbert

  10. #10
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Question about modeling

    Jax is right. OMP is the biggest, but in order to use their services, you have to belong. There's other model sites, too - . A bunch of others, I have no doubt.

    However, unless you get someone who's new and desperate, it's hard to imagine a model who doesn't know you just posing naked for free. TFP (time for prints), or free shots in exchange for photos, usually is just for credentialed photographers, as Jax said.

    Bob is right, too, but I do know that a lot of models either are not that recognizable in their pictures or they're willing to say, "Hey! Didn't I look good?" when those pictures, if nicely done, surface 30 years later. Sleazy pics and movies are another thing entirely, though, and I agree with him on that. Just embarrassing.

    Why don't you save your pennies and either go to a college art department or find a model in your area who's willing to pose, and then pay what you need to. Surely you can save up a hundred or two for your grand artistic opportunity.

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    Default Re: Question about modeling

    perhaps you can offer to take free professional pictures for the models in exchange.

    or somthing.. no one like to work their buns off then have nothign to show for it.. I know that sounds greedy but everyone has their resons as to why that is.

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    Senior Member MaxFL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about modeling

    Hunter, if you are seriousely thinking to start a succesfull business out of this and you are confident of its success, this should not be too different from the approach any other business start-ups would take. First, if at all possible, you should demonstrate your commitment by making an investment in it.... (maybe something you have already done). That investment could be the fee for the model. If that is absolutely not possible you can try with potential "investors"..... in your case could be to approach a model agency or directly the model and propose a share of your potential/future business through a contract (something similar to stock options) in exchange for the modeling time. Considering that this is a very entraprenour oriented type of business I would say that your best chance would be with an agency.

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    Default Re: Question about modeling

    Wow this generated more replies than I thought. I want to thank all of you that replied and provided some insight to my question. After reading the replies and then re-reading my initial question, I realize I should have worded things a little differently as I think I came across as one of those desperate idiots trolling for sstrippers to oogle at under the guise of an artist, photographer, filmaker, what have you. Rest assured I am not one of those jackasses. To that point, until crazybob mentioned it, I never realized that you ladies get so many propositions like this. I should clarigy some things that I believe fell short in my question. First, it's not that I don't want to pay the lady for modeling. Professional models that do this work demand upwards of $5oo dollars a session. And that is for a professional shoot. I cannot afford to pay $500 for the model when I may only be making that much for the illustration. Hence using a nonprofessional person to model that has the body type, and the level of comfort with nudity, or partial nudity that I need to get the right reference shots. That is not so say that I wouldn't give her $100 or so. It would literally take me about 15 minutes to get the shots I need. So $100 for 15 minutes is pretty good money. The type of work that I do is fantasy in the vein of Dungeons and Dragons fantasy, not erotic fantasy or pseuodo porn fantasy. I think some of you may have thought that that's what I was getting at with the term "fantasy". Someone mentioned pictures coming back to bite the model in the ass so to speak later in life. This wouldn't happen. My pictures are quick reference photos for lighting and muscle structure and to get the proper positioning. Thats it!! I did mention a website that the model could post pictures if they so chose to. That would only be a few photos (headshots or in costume, no nudity) that would basically acknowlege the model and what illustrations she posed as reference for. If she has her own website and wishes to post a link that is also welcome. I also should have clarified that not all the photos would be nude. Actually they would involve the model wearing pieces of armor or chainmail. For instance a chainmail bikini. The only reason I mentioned being nude is because sometimes the illustration calls for that so someone who is comfortable with being topless is a little easier to work with than someone who isn't. Someone mentioned onemodelplace.com My sister has a page there, or at least she did. And before anyone says "why not ask your sister? No, that's too weird, and my sister annoys the hell out of me anyway. I try to make it a point to never involve people I know into my work. If that were the case I'd just have my wife pose for me, but if I did that I'd never get any work done!!!!

    Let me pose a hypothetical question. If I was to propose this situation to one of you, what price would you ask for, and what would be your contingencies to do the job? All answers are apprecied. Thanks to you all as you've given me a lot of insight on this.

  14. #14
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Question about modeling

    Hunter, if you're willing to pay a model for her time, you can find someone on the sites mentioned above. Their rates will vary. It will take you longer than 15 minutes, guaranteed. Just getting her suited up and changed after that will take longer.

    It would help if you have some prior work to show. Say in your approach letter what your experience is and that you're looking for a paid shoot. If you get a model from the Internet, you can expect to send out 10 or more inquiries to get one response. When you find a model, she may well want to bring along a friend just for security. In fact, you should expect that.

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    Default Re: Question about modeling

    It depends, really. If I didn't know you, I'd probably charge $150 for the session ($100 for non-nude) for about an hour and a half session including my stretch breaks. Then again, it's different for two reasons....1) I know you and 2) I'm a huge D&D gamer girl so I'd probably cut you a deal just because it was a fantasy genre. Oh, and I'd want publicity shots with the chainmail bikini.
    "Just 'cause she dances go-go, that don't make her a 'ho, no.....called up my Mama, said 'I'm in love with this stripper yo.'"
    -Wyclef Jean

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    Default Re: Question about modeling

    Again, no girl is going to want to ruin an evening of dance club earnings to do your photo shoot for $100. This basically means that A. you'll have to find a willing girl that lives near your studio so travel time isn't an issue, B. you'll have to schedule the shoot at HER convenience, and C. you should throw in a "sweetener" like a CD full of outtakes which she can use as she pleases.

  17. #17
    Pamela
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    Default Re: Question about modeling

    One answer to your question Hunter is hard to answer. How many pictures are taken? And does the lady get to keep any? (alot like some). How "nude are you talking"? Any hardcore shots? Softcore nudes? Lots of questions as to what kind of poses are nude with the items mentioned. How much time spent for her doing this?
    These are all questions that would be important to me.
    Pamela

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    Default Re: Question about modeling


    It would depend on your release contract. If you have one hundred percent rights to use the photos however you want to, I would charge at least five hundred. If the contract states that the photos are never to be published and only to be used for technical purposes (is that what you said?) then one or two hundred dollars would do it. Throw in a CD of photos for me and it would be one hundred. If they were absolutely amazing pictures it might be free. :-)

    Lena



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    Default Re: Question about modeling

    Thanks for the feedback ladies. To answer your quesitions.

    Andricongirl: Yes, D&D chicks rule. Although I haven't played that game in 15 years. Any chick that wants to wear chainmail is cool in my book. Think of it this way, if women weren't meant to wear armor, than why is it called a breastplate!!!

    Melonie: No I would never expect a ladie to give up her time dancing. $100 compared to a possible $1000 she may make dancing. No contest. And also the shoot would be at her convenience, perhaps on an early morning or afternoon. Travel time wouldn't be a problem as I'd find a local girl (in NJ) and I could even travel to her if she so wished. A full CD of promo shots is definitely doable. Although I'm not a professional photographer I'd still do promo shots for her of poses of her choosing. As long as they are tasteful. I don't do porn and such.

    Pamela: Usually I sketch out a basic idea of the position I want so I know what to shoot ahead of time, therefore the shoot would onlyt last about 30-40 minutes at the longest. The photos would be digital, so no actual prints are made. The photos are just for me for reference to do illustrations. As mentioned the photos are never to be published, but if the ladie wants the shots burned on a CD for her use that is fine by me.
    As far as how nude, lets say at the most topless, or an exposed breast. No need to see the ladies "religion". Anyway I can always fake pubic hair in the drawing.

    Lena: I would throw in a CD of photos on top of payment. Although 500 is a lot but 100-150 + CD is doable.

    Once again thank you all for your insight.

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