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Thread: Exotic Dance as Art

  1. #1
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    Default Exotic Dance as Art

    I posted a similar message in the anti-whore thread but later felt that it should be in its own thread so here goes:

    How come traditional forms of dance such as ballet (I'm a ballet junkie too), jazz, modern, etc. do not have the image of sleaziness that exotic dance seems to have? How come some coreographers in these fields get away with eroticism in their works while exotic dancers are seen as the equivalent of, yes, whores, sluts, etc.? Is it because society at large deem forms of dance such as the ones mentioned as "acceptable"? What is your opinion, boys and girls ???



  2. #2
    God/dess Lena's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exotic Dance as Art

    Floorwork, for one, nudity, for two, the nature of gentlemens club advertising for three (XXX Porn star Biggest Boobs in the world! is supposed to be artistic?), the way many girls present themselves on Jerry Springer and in real life for four...

    Lena



  3. #3
    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exotic Dance as Art

    Damn, Carlos, you got me on this one! What I try to do when I DJ is to create erotic art with the dancers, as much as possible, while still trying to make money. It is a fine line to walk, and many of my friends who have not seen me in action scoff and laugh when I try to tell them about it (the filthy swine).

    Lena (my compliments, Lena, I like your style) pretty well covered the reasons exotic dance isn't commonly perceived as art. And if the exotic dance clubs publicly advertised their entertainment as art, they wouldn't be in business too long! Also, some dancers just aren't into it as artistic expression, plain and simple, and never will be. I would add that the view America in general takes of sexual entertainment (even our customers), precludes any attempt to lend it artistic merit.

    But there IS a happy medium, as anyone who has been there when Maria the Magnificent danced to Miles Davis, or the Erotic Angel Faith danced to Delerium, can testify. These are not isolated instances--the more I have been allowed a free hand to create this atmosphere, the more money we have all made. Immediately after Maria danced to Miles, she invariably went into VIP for a long, long time.

    And it does not necessarily require special music, though that helps, only that the dancer can really put her heart and soul into the song. Anyone watching Destiny (who I named, appropriately enough, "Erotic Artistry at its Finest") dance to almost any song would see that, instantly and emphatically.

    Unfortunately, it is not just the customers who, if forewarned of this aesthetic trickery, would nip it in the bud. Ownership and management take a very dim (pun intended) view of this. Unfortunately, DJ_WuLf is very exceptional--from my experience the managers of topless bars are the least intelligent or imaginative group of individuals I have ever had the dubious privilege to work with, unless it was the time I did temporary labor when I had just graduated from college.

    Most of them I have dealt with (admittedly only in Daytona) have little respect for my intelligence or abilities, even when excellent drink and dance sales should produce the opposite effect. The night AFTER New Years, when even I expected it to be dead, was one of the best nights I have ever seen in the last club I worked in, but I'm not there any more (well, it was sort of mutual).

    They much prefer the inane antics of these cheesy moron DJs, shrieking nonstop about T-shirts and "pussy" drinks, and saying nothing distinctive about any particular dancers, God forbid (I was actually told not to do this at the last place, and bucking this rule is one reason I'm gone). I have never met anyone who likes these guys or actually LISTENS to a word they say, except the fucking managers.

    My dream, if I do stick it out in this business, is to open a club where erotic art is precisely the point. If the advertising were handled correctly, and the artistic angle not implicitly or heavily emphasized, I think we could get rich very quickly. Lure them in with sex, and mesmerize them with sensuous, erotic art.

    Well, thanks a lot Carlos, I just burned my dinner, LOL.

    Djoser
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
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    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
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    Default Re: Exotic Dance as Art

    I think that the difference is a matter of intent - people at a dance performance aren't going there with the intent of being sexually stimulated (I assume) and the dancers are going there to dance a choreographed performance piece, like a singer or an actor performs.

    In a strip club, customers go in for sexual stimulation and one-on-one titillations. So they're two different situations.

    This is not to say that stripper's can't be artistic; many of them are. But that's not the main goal of our performance - the goal is to be sexy.

    On a side note, in France, ballerinas and prostitutes used to be the same thing!

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    Featured Member Devastating Divyne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exotic Dance as Art

    Also, not very many dancers perform. I have noticed a lot of girl are just content to stand up, take their clothes off, and go dry hump the stage into oblivion or lay and play with their orifices onstage. That is not artistic, its just raunchy but some people are there for the raunch.
    What I have noticed is that lots of girls dance like they are at a nite club, and a handful or two at every club actually perform and look sexual and sexy and enticing while not being overly lude and look beautiful. It just depends on what the girl is trying to convey.
    "Come what may although I often say realities come from dreams, but approach all lies with open eyes because NOthing in this world is EVER ALL it seems."

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    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exotic Dance as Art

    That is very interesting, Colletecall, I never knew that. I always love seeing what you have to say, even if we don't always exactly agree. But that's what makes life interesting, and my friends valuable. Hanging out with people who all think alike is boring!

    In the Roman Empire actors and actresses were often viewed in the same light as prostitutes, and it was considered scandalous if a Senator were to be seen acting on a stage. When the Empress Theodora, who wore Justinian's pants quite well, was described as a former dancer, it also meant she was a prostitute. She did both as well as she wore Justinian's pants.

    The Egyptians had a lot better attitude, and beautiful dancers are very common in their wall paintings, rendered with respect and loving care.

    Perhaps I am just an idealist, but I see nothing contradictory with doing a job being sexy and being an artist at the same time, even in an exotic dance club. However, I know most customers and managers would totally disagree! To remain commercially viable in the USA, it's probably best kept separate--on the surface.

    But by God I will do all I can to enable the women I work with to be artists, if they choose to do so! Mostly by giving them exactly the music it takes, without pissing everyone else off, but also by encouraging them verbally and making them feel special (this I have found to be very effective in combatting the tendency Divyne brings up, though not always). That's why I do it, and it's the only way I will do it. Especially if we also rake in the cash in the process.

    Djoser
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

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    Default Re: Exotic Dance as Art

    What I try to do when I DJ is to create erotic art with the dancers, as much as possible, while still trying to make money. It is a fine line to walk, and many of my friends who have not seen me in action scoff and laugh when I try to tell them about it (the filthy swine).

    ...if the exotic dance clubs publicly advertised their entertainment as art, they wouldn't be in business too long! Also, some dancers just aren't into it as artistic expression, plain and simple, and never will be. I would add that the view America in general takes of sexual entertainment (even our customers), precludes any attempt to lend it artistic merit.

    Unfortunately, it is not just the customers who, if forewarned of this aesthetic trickery, would nip it in the bud. Ownership and management take a very dim (pun intended) view of this.

    They much prefer the inane antics of these cheesy moron DJs, shrieking nonstop about T-shirts and "pussy" drinks, and saying nothing distinctive about any particular dancers, God forbid (I was actually told not to do this at the last place, and bucking this rule is one reason I'm gone).

    My dream, if I do stick it out in this business, is to open a club where erotic art is precisely the point. If the advertising were handled correctly, and the artistic angle not implicitly or heavily emphasized, I think we could get rich very quickly. Lure them in with sex, and mesmerize them with sensuous, erotic art.
    To this I can add that at lower-scale clubs out in western PR DJ's constantly remind clients that they're
    "bellacos" (slang term for "pervert") and play mostly raggaethon music (Puerto Rican style rap), whose lyrics are like 95% about women's private parts and sex acts. So needless to say when I listen to some of my favorite metal songs and none of the other crap at better clubs it is quite relieving (even though these can contain erotic lyrics on occassion).



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    Default Re: Exotic Dance as Art

    On a side note, in France, ballerinas and prostitutes used to be the same thing!
    No wonder I get turned on by ballerinas and exotic dancers as well .



  9. #9
    Pamela
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    Default Re: Exotic Dance as Art

    Playboy is seen as artistic, hustler has been known to not be so. I love burlesque myself. That to me is very artistic. It depends on who you ask about art forms, as once again you may get all kinds of different opinions. We all have our own voices, and ideals on what type of posing, dancing etc, is art. Pamela.
    PS first if (me personally) i see a lady in a magiazine all open and spead wide. I think porno. If i see a lady laying across a couch legs clossed and hair flowing down over one breast, i think art. Anything can be classified as an art to one person. While not the same for others.

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