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Thread: If a club get raided

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    Default If a club get raided

    I find it hard to believe that a clean dancer could get in serious trouble because her club gets busted. Is this true???

  2. #2
    Pamela
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    No, you may walk out with your head covered and media is there. However, if you as a dancer have never performed any illegal services while working inside a club, you will get cleared. They can, and usually do, because 10 busts are better against one club than 1 bust. So "our finest (undercover) will hang around until they really see what is happenig in a club,how many girls are performing illegal activities, and is managment involved or aware as well. Enough arrests, and close them down. But at times yes, all girls working will go, they have to be cleared. If you did nothing wrong, you will not be arrested, they keep close contact, records through stage name, activity date, ect. As far as a clean dancer getting in trouble because her club gets busted? Well, if you do nothing illegal, you will only get off. I don't see how a mistake can be made with the records police are keeping on each dancer who is breaking the law. They will go as far as asking for your picture too. I have danced many years, and have seen people taken out "always" one at a time, never the whole club shut down, and us all taken for questioning of any sort. And if a dancer quits in the meantime, they will find her through records, since even if you don't need a license, you still have to show id, and be cleared at the sherrifs Dept. Also a police man/woman can not follow through with the advances made, and alot of times (ex friend for example) has said she was set up, but she was willing to perform sexual acts while inside the club and set a price. So i really don't see that as being set up. Damn....we are dancers not prostitutes.
    Pamela, then again if i see any illegal activity i report it, she better be gone.. or i quit.

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    Veteran Member DJ_WuLf's Avatar
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    Define "Clean". What you get in "Trouble" for is violating either State or local LAWS and most dancers have no idea what those LAWS actually are. Don't confuse club Rules with Law either because most clubs "rules" are a balance of what is currently acceptable and actuaal law. Most planned raids that I have seen go down end up with ALL the dancers on the club floor going to jail and actual charges being sorted out later. Thankfully it doesn't happen often but it is an occupational risk that all dancers take whether they know it or not.
    14 years working in Strip Clubs. "What a long strange trip it's been"

  4. #4
    Pamela
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    Dj_Wulf i agree, when hired you must obey the club rules. The clubs know of state and local laws, clubs must apply for licensing. and if you keep a "clean" record meaning in this case i believe stay within legal activity, you will be cleared. I have yet to see any dancer not cleared, if she did nothing wrong. Not good when the media shows up, and your picture could be on TV. Hurts the ego, but worry not if you do not perform illegal activities inside work. And since we take money all night long in our jobs....we BETTER know our laws.
    But if you stick to the rules of the club you will be cleared. I don't worry about myself, because i am not prostituting, and using the club as my brothel. Pamela

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    Featured Member Devastating Divyne's Avatar
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    Thats nice where u all are that the police are so honest. In my city, they have a quota and if they don't get what they deem to be enough people they will start picking random girls and giving out citations. Most girls just pay them b/c they don't think nething will happen if they go 2 court. Most girls don't realize that in our town, if u even show up, it gets dismissed and will be expunged if u ask for it to be and get it dismissed with costs. I always heard girls say that they make up stuff when they do vice sweeps and i always thought they were lying, they are not.
    I had one grab me and say well come back here somebody saw u. I said okay, and when he got 2 me I asked who saw me, well more importantly what did i do? He asked another officer and he said I was giving a dance. I haven't done a dance all nite, my customer and i sat in the vip in the front and talked for an hour. He says oh, well when u were onstage u took off ur bottoms. Wrong again I never take them off ask someone. He went and asked one customer and some waitress, both gave him a negative 2 which he replied well I gotta give u a ticket for something. I said, can I quote you as saying that so that when my lawyer, i told him who my lawyer was, and i go 2 court we can present that and please be sure to write ur name clearly and if u don't mind put ur badge # down as well. I didn't get a ticket, but they pull that shit left and right.
    "Come what may although I often say realities come from dreams, but approach all lies with open eyes because NOthing in this world is EVER ALL it seems."

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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    I've always feared being inside a club when it's raided. On two occasions at one particular club in Mayagüez, Puerto Rico, police made busts the night after I visited. I evidently stopped going to this place.



  7. #7
    Pamela
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    Wow Divyne Kennedy! Now that sucks. Yes here too the street cops have to write up a certain amount of tickets as well. They seem to work the streets harder, you know speeding, improper turns ect. I have not known of any coming in a club trying to set a dancer up. I would have been extremely pissed. At least is has not happened to me. Can't speak for others in the club. Pamela

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    Featured Member Devastating Divyne's Avatar
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    Well, the thing is in my city raids are not a big deal at all. It is expected that every couple of months or during election time every couple of days, usually the weekends, the VICE cops will be in the club. This is a commonplace occurence here, and it is expected b/c of how city laws of no contact are overlooked the very often.
    But, a lot of the time when they come in they have a quota and if u argue with them or cause a scene they will take u to jail for disturbing the peace. They think they r invincible and do not care. To be fair they are not all this bad, but the majority of them are. If u run into them once, usually next go round u see them the moment they walk in the club. And to top it all off, they commandeer our dressing room to write the tickets in and some of them will actually ask if u do bachelor parties or know someone who does. Yeah, right. And they say stuff like well this is what I do, but my buddy is getting married and.....................It's crazy, but its something u learn to deal with. I have friends in le and friends in city hall so I listen really careful to certain conversations and try to keep my eyes open when I'm working.
    "Come what may although I often say realities come from dreams, but approach all lies with open eyes because NOthing in this world is EVER ALL it seems."

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    Featured Member TiNi's Avatar
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    Divyne if that happens to you or someone in your club, you could tke down the officers name and the id number locted on their badge. It be their word against yours. But that's harassment and bribery which in legal terms is larceny.

    Gwen raids are relly when police is checking up on a club. If there is illegal things such as minors, protitions, in my case cant drink if i'm under the age of 21, if caught I would be arrest.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    I've unfortunately been involved in more of these sort of incidents than I care to remember. I would start off by stating that it's an extremely dangerous assumption that if a dancer winds up being busted, but that she was actually "not doing anything wrong", that she will be exonorated. This might be true in limited circumstances, but in most of the country there are other issues to consider, like ...

    #1 normal offerings in a particular city's dance clubs in the way of contact (I'm not talking extras, just the average lap dance), while done by every dancer for years, may in fact be in violation of an existing state or local law even though the club owner and dancers assume it's fine because no busts have previously occurred. In point of fact, I have also seen many occasions where club owners knowingly promote activities inside the club which are actually illegal in the interest of greater profits, knowing that if/when heat comes down that it will be directed at the dancers and not at the club! Some dancers do them willingly in the interest of earnings (I'm not talking extras, just high contact), other dancers do them unwittingly assuming that if the club says it's OK and the other dancers are doing it that it must be OK, when in fact it isn't by the letter of the law

    #2 local politicians and local police usually do not give "strippers" the same benefit of the doubt as they would to a fine upstanding local citizen - i.e. if one girl in a club is actually caught dead to rights breaking the law it leads to the assumption that all the other girls in the club have been doing the same thing. As posted by others, this is a big issue when high profile busts are used as a political tool in election years, where there are quotas to fill etc.

    #3 if a girl is busted without actual hard evidence (such as video surveillance tape showing she was performing extras) her case hinges on her own word versus the word of a vice cop. In terms of credibility, all judges and all the housewives, civil servants and fine upstanding citizens of any jury will take the approach that the vice cop is a heroic figure in the community whose word is gold, and that the dancer is the drug addicted whore that the hollywood stereotype says she is who is simply lying. This virtually guarantees that a dancer that is so charged will be found guilty the first time around.

    #4 even if a girl is actually totally innocent of the charges and can prove it, in reality it takes time and money to prove your innocence. This means hiring a connected local lawyer, filing an appeal, showing up in court more than once etc. etc. Many girls cannot reach into their pocket for an immediate couple of grand to follow this approach. Many girls will instead "cop a plea" to a lesser unrelated charge or plead guilty with "guarantees" to the original charge instead of risking the guilty verdict and the possibility of a big fine or doing time the first time around. They will instead just pay a fine of a few hundred bucks, and will go back to work.

    In my own case I was (bogusly) charged with prostitution and it wound up costing me well over 5 grand plus several days lost work plus airfare and expenses to finally beat the charge on appeal because I would not take the easy way out. With dancer's licensing becoming ever more widespread, it matters now more than ever how you handle yourself if/when you are busted. Even though a girl might walk away without doing any time, without missing work the next night, and with a small fine if she "cops a plea" or pleads guilty with "guarantees", the charge will show up on her permanent record. Having a charge on my record would lock the door for me to ever dance in cities that require dancer's licenses (or to dance there in the future when my license must be renewed), because the charge will show up during the background check which always accompanies the license application or renewal.

    I wound up writing an article on this subject, which you can read at if your interested.

  11. #11
    Pamela
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    Melonie, you said in an earlier post what happened to you was because the owner or manager was not honest with you when you where hired on the job. Pamela

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    yes Pamela that's exactly right. I specifically asked the Club Manager how much contact was legal under local laws, and he told me how much contact was legal under state laws (but the local laws were stricter). I myself still wasn't violating the local laws, but all of the house dancers were and we all got swept up together (great headline - "Big Bust Bust!" - got the mayor re-elected by a landslide). Since I was an out-of-towner they really tried to make a high profile example of me. Wasn't gonna happen, no matter how much it wound up costing me to prove my innocence! Funny how there wasn't even a blurb in the paper about my successful appeal (according to the local attorney that represented me) ... of course that didn't (actually couldn't) happen until after the election because the appeals court deliberately stalled my case until afterwards!

    Local laws are the hardest area to find out info on, because while most state laws are available on the internet to research yourself the local ordinances usually can only be found at the local city hall or county clerk's office. For a travelling dancer there's virtually no way to get hold of this sort of information in advance.

    I agree with the other posts that in the final analysis this is all one big game to the local cops, the local politicians and the local clubowners. Unfortunately, it is the often unsuspecting dancers that get the short end of the stick. Many of them are actually now working in situations where they must violate the letter of the law every single day in order to earn any decent amount of money, and they may not even know it. Again I'm not talking about "extras", just normal levels of contact which have been going on for years, which have never generated heat in the past, which are probably legal under state law, but which all of a sudden can be seized upon by a local conservative element for their own purposes simply by passing a new ordinance by a back room vote of city council members which, for example, redefines "sexual contact" as a girl sitting on a customer's lap. But when you combine the local definition of "sexual contact" with money being tipped or paid by a customer to the girl it can translate into a prostitution charge, which most of the world assumes to mean something much more extensive! Yet the legal consequences are potentially the same.

    Fortunately, many of these "overzealous" local ordinances have bitten the dust on appeal. Unfortunately, a lot of them have been upheld by equally conservative state appeals courts. Even more unfortunately, many of them have never been taken to appeal because the local area affected only encompasses a couple of clubs and the clubowners simply can't raise the cash to hire the legal horsepower necessary to bring the appeal in the first place. Then the "game" is really afoot, with the clubowners trying to do business as usual and the local politians and cops trying to cash in on the political mileage the ordinance generates, with local dancers caught in the middle.

  13. #13
    Pamela
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    So he just did not tell you about the state laws? I think as a club owner would they not want to keep thier doors open, and be upfront with us dancers. They know about local and sate laws, they have too. Otherwise all the clubs would be getting shut down because they don't comply with one law or the other. As a traveling dancer i can see where that was a problem for you. But us dancers, with our feet grounded should know about local (easy) and sate laws of dancing. I have always asked about the laws pertaining to the state, and have been told up front what goes and what does not. Any club that has been around along time and has a good record with local law authorities, must be doing something right. Also they investigate, or so i am always told by authorities, cameras and undercover. The girls breaking the law are the ones who go! Others are cleared, they have no proof you did anything wrong, and they have to prove it!
    Man you got set up bad for a bust. The owner did not either know his laws for his club, or for some reason let the girls break laws. Glad you got off, sorry it cost so much damn money, and excuse my ignorance, but innocent is...and without proof they can't have you. If these girls are violating laws everyday, why not a bust? You know how quickly people are to shut us down. I don't know how any other clubs work, but here we have local police in all the time. AS well as undercover making the rounds. And why would a club owner want his club to go down? I guess i will let it rest, i am not familiar with clubs like that. All the clubs i worked at have been up and running for at least 10 years, with no raids. Call it luck, but i DO investigate alot, and i sell dogs to every different type of work an officer around. (have anyway.) i also ask them questions about the clubs in the areas. Guess i am just nosy, dancing so long and never a raid, makes one wonder what the heck happened to the innocent girls. Pamela

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    Not exactly ... the manager told me what the state law had to say about permissible levels of contact (which agreed with what I had found on the internet in regard to state laws), but not what the new local ordinance had to say about the same subject, which was more restrictive. Before the incident that I got caught up in, there hadn't been any previous busts in any clubs in town for some time. Apparently the clubowners in town all knew what the new ordinance had to say about restricting contact, but after several of the clubs had initially reduced levels of contact to more or less comply with the new ordinance they all found that business fell off badly, since all that guys who wanted contact had to do was drive outside the city limits to find it in other clubs where the new ordinance didn't apply. As a result, so I am told, the actual level of contact just started increasing again in the clubs within the city limits. I just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when the city fathers decided that a pre-election club bust headline would be very helpful to their re-election campaigns. I'm sure that the actual levels of contact are now right back up there too, with no more busts that I have heard of.

    I don't mean to be more negative than necessary, but your underlying assumption that clubs themselves get hurt by busts really isn't all that true. Usually it's only the dancers that wind up with charges. At worst the clubs see their business reduced temporarily out of a fear reaction by local residents who see the headline in the paper, but business soon comes back providing guys can find what they're looking for inside the clubs. The dancers are out on bail and return to work the next night, or the club usually has new girls looking for work who they can call. Either way the club never misses a single day of business. The perfect real example of this is Houston clubs, where SOP calls for every girl to break the letter of the law every single day in regard to contact or earn next to nothing. Dancers get busted and fined constantly, but there's never any splashy front page headlines about it. Yet the clubs stay open, and stay profitable as long as the club's dancers are offering as many "extras" at as low of a price as other dancers are at the club on the other side of town. As you have said about your own situation, location is everything!

    My point is that in most cities, the politicians and cops really don't want the clubs closed down permanently (although some local religious group very well might, all of them registered voters of course). Heck, the clubowner probably makes "contributions" to the local police widows and orphans fund and the mayor's re-election campaign if you catch my drift. Actually politicians and cops can also be great club customers as long as it's not an election year! The whole heat on clubs element is simply a "game" not intended to close down the clubs, but to create political brownie points for politicians and cops with conservative local voters at the dancers' expense. They really don't care if dancers are innocent or guilty (after all the conservative local voters assume the dancers are drug addicted sluts anyhow), as long as they get the splashy brownie point headline in the local newspaper. The only way to get the headline is to make a bunch of arrests, which means making a bunch of charges (true or not) against the dancers. But once a dancer's name and a charge show up on the police blotter, the wheels of justice are set in motion and the dancer winds up having to deal with it. The clubs usually do not get charged because the clubowners can take advantage of "plausible deniability" and claim they knew nothing of what the girls were doing in the private rooms (which is total bullshit of course but an effective legal defense nonetheless), and the cops know it.

    As far as proof goes, "if they don't have evidence they can't have you" just doesn't work that way in the real world. All that has to happen is that a vice cop says one thing in order to justify arresting you, and when you try to say it's not true unless you yourself have a video surveillance tape showing zero contact to prove your innocence it becomes a dancer's work against the word of a cop situation. In 99% of city courts, they'll take the word of the cop as evidence enough. In your area it sounds like the local cops actually do do their homework and are interested in actually busting dancers who are actually providing "extras" to permanently chase them out of town or out of business. But in most other areas they really aren't interested in doing anything except walking into a club, arresting as many girls as possible to generate the biggest headline possible, and then letting the court system sort it all out afterwards. Then after the busts and the headline, there may not be another bust for months or years (like the next election !!!).

    Like you, in my own neck of the woods I have a pretty good pulse on what's happening legally and politics wise, and I avoid potentially "hot" areas. But when travelling to clubs far from home, where local laws and politics can be way different, it's virtually impossible to catch these kind of scents on the wind. When you add in the fact that most club owners are willing to tell girls anything in order to make an extra buck, it only compounds the problem. This fact stems from the reality in many parts of the country that there are way more dancers looking to work in high earnings potential clubs than there are available openings, such that individual dancers are 'expendable' to the clubowners these days. Therefore many clubowners are very happy to encourage higher than legal mileage if they know it will result in more customers and more private dance sales thus more income for the club, even if it also results in dancers getting busted.

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    Veteran Member DJ_WuLf's Avatar
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    Pamela; You miss the point that Melonie is making and that I have tried to make. IT IS NOT THE CLUBS RESPONSIBILITY to inform the dancer of the LAW. IT IS THE DANCERS RESPONSIBILITY to know and remain within the LAW.

    In most cases A club will NOT be "shut down" when the Dancers fail to comply with the Law and are arrested. As for Licensing, most Clubs have a Liqour License, a County Occupation (or Merchants) License and a Sales tax License. The Only license that is normally at risk is the Liqour license and even that is usually just suspended for a short time in RARE Cases which will Not result in the Club having to Close ..... Just stop selling Alcohol. Also, most Clubs are some type of CORPORATION, and you can't send a Corporation to Jail. The "Club" itself is at quite a bit less risk of legal charges than the dancers.

    Most "Cops" up to and including the "Chief" do not know the various local ordinances concerning "Strip Clubs" by memory, so DO NOT Feel safe because some street Cop knows what you do and has told you it's OK. City Councils and Prosecuting Attorneys are the ones that come up with these "Laws" when a Raid is made. Many Laws/Ordinances are either brand new or VERY Old and usually only enforced for political reasons (like an Election).

    Please don't take this as a personal attack but it is a good example. YOU dance in Florida. You have stated in previous posts that you "Make Love to Yourself" onstage. That is "Simulating a Sexual Act in Public" and is Illegal in Florida whether money is involved or not. It's just ONE of the MANY Laws that are only enforced when it is POLITICALY required rather than Legally required (Especially in a Strip Club) and is entirely the daancers responsibility unless it can be PROVEN that the Club required the dancer to break the Law (which is very hard to do).

    You have to ask the right questions to get the right answers from Cops, Club Owners and City Clerks. The only accurate "Investigation: of actual LAW is either reading ALL Federal, State and Local Laws/Ordinances yourself or paying a Lawyer to do so (NOT Easy). Otherwise you're going to get TOLD what is "Acceptable" rather than Legal.

    Many Clubs run for years without attracting large scale complaints about the operation or running into a Political publicity situation. That does not mean its Legal. It means it's Acceptable. There is a BIG Difference.

    Example: You RENT a car from Hertz. Is it Hertz's responsibility to tell you all the Speed limits you must follow? NO ...Its your responsibility to know. (Even if the limit is not posted) If you break the Law (speeding) does Hertz get shut down for providing you the Car to break the law IN or not telling you? No. The "Speed Limit" in Florida is anywhere from 75 MPH to 10 MPH depending on where you are (I-95 or a school zone) Just as do Laws (and thier enforcement level) for Dancers. Its the enforcement that varies. Ever been let off from a speeding violation with a warning? Ever speed past a cop and he doesn't stop you even tho you know he clocked you speeding? See the analogy?

    Bottom Line: Just because the "Club" doesn't say "You can't DO that" doesn't mean you CAN DO IT Legally.

    14 years working in Strip Clubs. "What a long strange trip it's been"

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    well, Candi, therein lies the root of the problem. Like I said, if a dancer lives locally in relation to the club she can go to the city attorney's office or to the county office building during business hours and request a copy of pertinent city or county ordinances. Then once she obtains a copy she can attempt to decypher the legalese to figure out what it means. Or she can retain a local attorney to advise her, but this will cost her $100-$250.

    Then the real issue comes out, which very well might be that levels of contact that every girl in the club she works at and that girls in every other club in town are already providing is in fact illegal (even if it has never resulted in club busts before). Then she has a dilemma on her hands. If she sticks to the letter of the law, she's going to sell one private dance per customer and as soon as the customer discovers her low mileage factor he gets up and out of the VIP room. That customer also tells other customers that this particular dancer delivers much lower mileage than every other dancer in the club, meaning that other customers won't even bother to buy one dance. So by sticking with what is legal to the letter of the law, while the other dancers in the club deliver mileage levels that are 'acceptable' but not 100% legal, this dancer sees her earnings cut in half!

    Even if all of the girls in one particular club decide to abide by the letter of the law, if other clubs in town offer more mileage club customers will quickly migrate to the other clubs. This usually stabilizes where one 'clean' club winds up with girls that are all 9's and 10's and appeals to upscale businessmen and their clients, tourists etc. who don't want a hint of trouble but do want the best eye candy available, but with other clubs delivering acceptable but illegal mileage for the majority of customers who expect it. This REALLY puts a dancer who is a '7' or an '8' who wants to stay 100% within legal contact limits between a rock and a hard place, where she can't get hired in the one 'clean' club because she doesn't "measure up", and where she also can't earn money in the other clubs because the other dancers in these clubs are offering much higher contact levels than she is and the customers know it.

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    Veteran Member DJ_WuLf's Avatar
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    Candi: Most dancers are under the impression that there is like a 1-2 page List of Laws concerning "Dancing" in a Strip Club environment. Not the case !!! The Laws/Ordinances are spread throughout THOUSANDS of pages of "Code" books and are virtually impossible to isolate into a "list" The only choice for the dancer who really wants to know is too read ALL the City "Codes" and State and Federal Laws OR Pay an attorney to research them for you. Even an Attorney will miss some that can be "Interpreted" to apply to Strip Clubs and dancing therein. It's this "Interprutation" that Prosecuting Attorneys and Judges use to nail most dancers. Then it comes down to who has the best Lawyer.
    14 years working in Strip Clubs. "What a long strange trip it's been"

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    Veteran Member DJ_WuLf's Avatar
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    Probably the BEST Example of the level of application and interpretation of Laws was the recent Texas ruling that Adultery is no longer Illegal. For 100+ Years it has been Illegal in Texas (and many other States) to have Sex outside of Marriage. How many People does THIS make into Criminals ?

    This is just one of the many "Laws" that is overlooked until some political (or emotional) reason occurs to implement and enforce it. For an even more glaring example check into the legal definition of "Sodomy". Ever give your old man a Blow Job?? Anal Sex?? YOU CRIMINAL !!!!!
    14 years working in Strip Clubs. "What a long strange trip it's been"

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Ain't that the truth, DJ! It's almost laughable what some of these DA's and judges manage to 'interpret' as behavior constituting prostitution. My favorite bad example happened in Texas, where state prostitution law defines prostitution as performing "sexual contact" for money, and defines "sexual contact" in many ways including touching a female breast. But Texas law doesn't state that there has to be a correlation between the person paying the money and the person engaging in "sexual contact". This resulted in two Texas dancers being found guilty of prostitution charges when one dancer touched another dancer's breast while onstage together and a customer was tipping at the rail!

    But NYC has some peculiar interpretations as well, like ignoring the presence of a customer's clothing in their definitions of "sexual contact" under the new ordinance. Therefore by the letter of the law, a nude dancer sitting on a customer's lap is flirting with a possible prostitution charge in NYC. Of course, the reality is that these ridiculous interpretations are almost never enforced, and if a dancer attempted to abide by them 100% she might as well quit dancing and work at WalMart. But the risk of being busted is still there, and if some politician or cop gets a bug up his ass about something, WHAM the dancer is stuck with a misdemeanor "sex crime" charge on her permanent record.

  20. #20
    Pamela
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    DJ_Wulf, i did not miss the point. I said i ask about laws State and local. Now i don't go to only the club laws where i work for this information. And i must be doing something right....as i never had a bust. And i think much more is being made out of this dancing bit than needs to be. Have you noticed NO MORE newbies asking how to break
    in, or very few. They are getting scared, it seems to me. Dancing is not a job that will doom you to be busted. Smart girls look into the RULES and LAWS, some don't know any better.. Melonie states she is aware of her surroundings....AS am I. I missed NO point. Just the fact we will not ALL have a BUST!! Disagree, it is the clubs responsibility to infrom us dancers of the laws/rules within the club.. Why in the heck have rules inside clubs, if at any given time one can go down if they feel like it? All this business is way out of hand. Get local and state laws, you can do so with out a lawyer!!!! I know mine. To Many if's and but's here. I will stick to what i do best, and be fine. Know your laws, forever changing anyway. I have never been accused or harrased. Nor any club i work at. I don't miss the point...again, this can happen anyplace, not just strip clubs. And we are not always the target audience. DJ_Wulf i was raised with a different back ground than you, i don't need car rentals as examples. I have moved from another country straight to Florida to dance many years. I am doing nothing wrong simulating an act on stage. I am not doing 'the' act. There is your difference. Crossing and uncrossing my legs at a restaurant is simulating a sexual act too if you want examples. Because i can reach orgasm while doing so!! (but now thats the act.) And thank you Melonie for your in put, always worth reading. Many clubs run for years because they KNOW all the laws and abide by them, do you think all dancers or clubs are breaking laws? It seems so, DJ_wulf. How sad. I will do my thing and be fine. Dancer from Sweden does not mean stupid. I have a few friends who make a living in Law. And one a prosecuter/customer. I think i may have all bases covered. Pamela
    PS And if you want to think i am ignorant, just go read the SW articles on that one, i understand Melonie points. I like you have my opinions as well. I don't like being assumed i don't know laws...oh i do very much so, i am very aware.

  21. #21
    Veteran Member DJ_WuLf's Avatar
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    NYC's "Decency" "Laws" are affected by the Theater more than anything else. The Uproar over the Musical "Hair" Changed alot of New York City Codes concerning Public Nudity and its application as an "Art Form". Most other States are not as Artisticly inclined though. FLORIDA for one.
    14 years working in Strip Clubs. "What a long strange trip it's been"

  22. #22
    Pamela
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    OK we can get confused on laws here, and we are in different states. I can obtain mine from CITY HALL. Easily. Not hard to understand. Lots of papers, yes. But you do not need a lawyer to explain them or obtain them. This topic is something that somehow got blown way up. Maybe it needs to be dropped. Start with City Hall, and Local court houses. You will obtain some reading material. I have done so. And it is forever changing to ones benefit anyway. It is something i chose not to worry about. Ignorant on the subject...no. Paranoid... no. I will continue to know my laws, and do my job. Pamela

  23. #23
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    "do I think that all dancers or clubs are breaking laws" - well, actually, in NYC or Houston or San Francisco or Chicago or Tampa or Miami or Vegas or a hundred other cities I could mention, YES, the vast majority of them are! If dancers stuck to the absolute letter of the laws which apply in these cities, other than at a handful of zero contact "show clubs" that hire only '9's and '10's, dancers that work at other clubs which offer contact are vulnerable to being busted because their 'acceptable' behavior under club rules does violate the letter of the law! This is of course no big deal if you happen to be a '9' or a '10' and are able to get hired at the "show clubs", but for those of us who aren't it's a very real consideration!

  24. #24
    Pamela
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    Default Re: If a club get raided

    Lay off me DJ, and the state i work in...please. i don't care for your personal attacks "FLORIDA" for one comment. I know the laws here. Once and for all.

  25. #25
    Pamela
    Guest

    Default Re: If a club get raided

    CORRECT Candigrl, it just an open can of worms spilling out now. We can be busted for anything! Very true. Pamela.
    And see Melonie i do no contact dancing! You raise a good point for me, and how i work inside the clubs. I AM A NO CONTACT DANCER!!

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