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Thread: lap dances

  1. #1
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    Default lap dances

    I visit strip clubs infrequently (about 2-3 times a year) but stumbled across this site and thought the discussions were pretty interesting.

    I noticed many of the dancers who post don't like to give lap dances or "extras" and would prefer to give air dances or stay on the stage.

    Do guys really buy a significant amount of air dances? That seems like a waste of money. I think as time goes on it will be harder to sell air dances to men. I frequent regular dance clubs, and many women will give you all the contact you can handle without having to pay them or being limited to a certain number of songs. Plus they might give you their phone # to boot. I can't see why a guy would pay for an air dance when he could go to a regular dance club ask a girl to dance and get much more contact that way for free.

    I also think the younger generation coming up is more open with sex, check out this article in the Washington Post:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2003Jan17.html

    So how many guys are going to be satisfied with an air dance when women are much more open?

    So for better or worse I think lap dances and extras are here to stay or strip clubs as an industry are going to go through a major contraction.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Theresa's Avatar
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    Default Re: lap dances

    While it would be nice to be able to give only air dances and still make money, the reality is that most guys will not spend a great deal of money on air dances (surprise). They feel that they can get the same thing just by sitting next to the stage and tipping a few dollars. This has been discussed several times on this board, unless you are movie star hot and get hired at one of the best clubs in the country where you can provide no contact and still make a lot of money, you are stuck working in high contact places if you want to make a comparable amount of money. I work in a fully nude high contact club, and as long as guys follow what little rules there are I don't mind. But when guys expect me to let them suck on my chest or stick their hands certain places, THAT is what pisses me off.

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    Default Re: lap dances

    Luke,

    It depends on the market. Depending on the local, state, and club laws, air dances can and DO work in many locations.

    For example, in San Francisco, a town known for very high contact lap dances, a dancer would not be able to make a living doing air dances. Not just because all the girls in her club are doing it....all the clubs are doing it. She has no other option than to join the grind... or find another job.

    However, in Orange County, CA ALL the clubs are non-contact. If you grind you're fined (or fired) and if management doesn't catch you, the girls will rip you a new asshole when you try to leave. I've seen many a dressing room fight at Mr. Js.

    Customers continue to patronize these bars because THATS ALL THERE IS. If you want to go to a strip club in OC, then that's what you're going to get....take it or leave it.

    Then you have situations like SCORES in NY. I've never had the opportunity to go there, but from what I gather, air dances work there because the club has such a high profile and name recognition that they can do whatever they want. Although other NYC clubs may offer more contact, they doesn't have the name recognition to draw people in for "just air dances."

    But to answer you question. Yes, guys do buy a significant number of air dances. And yes, many times I get paid more just to sit and talk to someone than I would if I danced for them.

    While I see what your saying, I don't predict clubs will get more risque. Although the younger generation may be more comfortable with sex...some of the older generation (and the current lawmakers) still is not.

    Add to the fact that most cities are concocting lap dance laws to limit contact, and are wasting PD time busting clubs and citing girls for sitting on customers laps.

    Just my thoughts
    B

    Rebecca Avalon







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    Default Re: lap dances

    I've always expected my private dances to have at least some grinding. So far it's been that way. What varies from club to club is whether I can get away with touching or fondling. I play by the rules of the respective clubs. If I can't touch I won't touch.



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    Veteran Member hollyday's Avatar
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    Default Re: lap dances

    wow i wish i could get away with air dances sometimes...especially when his pants look dirty, like he just came form work..i work in canada and we have couches, so i guess it's lap dancing
    some girls do not like contact..so i guess it's what your comfortable with...but i would imagine a girl getting closer would make a lot more money and a girl consistantly dancing three feet away...unless shes a great conversationalist
    blessed be

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    Default Re: lap dances

    Well luke, if you feel you can get as much or more at regular dance clubs *for free* than you get at strip clubs, why do you go to strip clubs again? My guess is so you can see some hot eye candy up close and personal, either naked or semi-naked. Then there's the added benefit of being entertained by a professional who really knows how to do it, versus the hit-or-miss talent of amateurs. Also, add that you just can't go to a regular club and get the kind of consistent quality offered at most good strip clubs, and the fact that the phone numbers you *might* get at regular clubs are just as likely to be fake as the ones you *might* get at strip clubs, hey strip clubs might not be such a bad deal huh? Oh, and don't forget that you also have to convince the girl of your desires to dance with you at the regular club (maybe by buying her several drinks), whereas at the strip club, you just offer that relatively small amount of cash, and whichever girl you desire will be right there dancing - STRIPPING - in a second, no drinks necessary!

    As for your contact vs lapdance theory:
    First, you are misunderstanding what most of us don't like - most of us don't like having thoughtless, inconsiderate pigs grab and grope all over us, especially in intimate places, thinking that it is supposed to be *part of the dance*. In a business sense, that equals a customer walking into a movie theater, paying for the movie, and expecting the popcorn to be free. In a personal sense (since it is a rather personal type business), it is equal to a guy grabbing the tits or ass of a woman in the grocery store and expecting her to like it. Neither is appreciated, desired or acceptable.

    Second, as BritneyIreland pointed out, there are MANY clubs/areas where little to no contact is allowed, and when customers are in those places, they go along or they don't play. Always has been that way, always will be. A perfect example: I work in a pretty low-contact club, and the guys go along happily because they enjoy being entertained by the girls who work there. There are many other clubs here offering MUCH more, and customers go to one of those when they want more *action*, and my club when they want a certain *other* quality. Simple economics - if there were no demand, there would be no supply.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  7. #7
    Pamela
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    Default Re: lap dances

    Bridgette thanks for the message i was pretty much going to say. I don't like a strange mans hands all over me. Or grinding dirty pants nude or with a little g-string on. I am a stage dancer, i do fine. I have worked very hard to build a clientel of guys (mainly older) who like to ask me to dirty dance on stage for them. They are up close, i lay down to them and sometimes grab a tie, or a man will rub my leg, i tease and flirt while dancing. I sing, and strip, at times i will wrap an article of clothing around his neck. Some men love this kind of dancing. Not all need or want up close and personal. I make a fantasy come true by making love to myself in front of the crowd on stage, i grind, spread, and tongue (fake) the pole. I ask what song a man likes and do my best to get it playing, or something close to it. Then when i am done on stage, i mingle with guys that gave me money, and others. I flirt...sure, laugh and sometimes will dance a little at the table for a tease. I guess we all have our own style, and alot of guys like different types of dancing from us.
    However i am being pressured to do laps at one club, and may take it on. But no guy better even think about putting his hands on my tits, twat, or ass..because i am not into laps, but the owner does not want me to quit and i like him fine. So i may do this. Pamela~

  8. #8
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    Default Re: lap dances

    Hey Luke...How about the fact that at a strip club you can leave the "connection" that you have with "any girl you choose" and there are never any strings attached. Maybe I'm naive, but if I grind on a guy at a dance club then give him my "real" number, I would pry appreciate a call. (especially if we have sex!) Guess it depends what you're looking for. Many men go to clubs for the freedom of contact or connection without "real life" intimacy. Sometimes it's not always about SAVING MONEY and WHAT YOU CAN GET FOR FREE...
    What do you think?

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    Default Re: lap dances

    It would all depend on the local laws. If a club only allows ai dances, and your customer has never been to a place that allows contact/grinding, then they will probably be totally cool with air dances. What they don't know and all that. But once a guy has had a dance with more contact, its pretty much a no brainer that they will prefer grinding over air.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: lap dances

    I have had two girlfriends who danced for me at home, and its not the same at all for me. This is much more the case now that I have worked with dancers for a few years and know just how little they enjoy the full contact dances. For me if the woman is faking its no damned good.

    I don't buy dances for myself. I will buy dances for my friends, especially if I want to help out one of my favorites. Sometimes if I really like a customer I will buy him a dance, and in the long run this pays off. Or I will sometimes buy a dance for a dancer from another if they enjoy this. The guys sure love to see it.

    If someone was to buy me a dance I might prefer an air dance as I have long ago learned to view this as a sensual experience. No one can believe this, especially my male friends, but it is erotic art for me, and the more I feel the woman is enjoying her dancing as an artistic experience, the more I love it, whether it is 50 or 5 feet away.

    There are many occasions where as the DJ I may have picked out exactly the right song for the woman, I may be talking her up for something that is special about her, and it makes her dance better. A bond is created sometimes that is as good as sex in its own way. Some dancers this happens a lot with, some rarely, some never.

    Maybe I'm just wierd or I've been in the business too long. But I think that if more guys viewed the women as being creative and let them know that aspect of their performance was being appreciated, like by buying more 'air' dances, those guys would sure be welcomed back warmly.

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: lap dances

    Even in a club where contact dancing is the norm, there will always be customers that are more interested in looking than touching - hell, when I worked in Memphis, home of the crazy couch dance, I would offer customers the alternative of a nude, no contact dance, and had a surprising number of takers. For $10 *more* than the lap dance, no less!
    Anyway, I think that a lot of guys will take what they can get, and then some will try to get away with a little more.
    What turns someone on is so subjective - some guys just really want you in their lap whereas some turn to pudding when you do a certain move. I have a little backbend thing that I love to do because of the view it provides, and while the only contact involved is my head on his shoulder, it's very sexy and guys just love it.
    So, basically guys pay for a)what they like and b)what's available, and since everyone likes and has available different things, we are able to sell them.

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    Default Re: lap dances

    Based on the responses I guess "to each his own." Some guys apparently do like air dances. Nothing wrong with that.

    I was hypothesizing that it was more likely to be older men who like te air dances. The younger generation is used to a more open sexual interaction, at least according to the article in the Washington Post. I am suggesting that the high school and college guys who are getting no-string sex now will be the travelling businessmen or regulars in 10 years. After growing in the highly sexualized world we live in, they would seem to be less likely to be satisfied by air dances. The older generation is more conservative, but they will eventually be replaced by the younger folks coming up. So strip clubs will have to become more risque. Only time will tell. But that's my prediction.

    In response to Bridgette's question "why do I continue to go?" I don't go that frequently, maybe 2-3 times a year, usally if I'm hanging out with friends who like to go these clubs. I guess it's sort of a male bonding ritual. Air dances don't do anything for me, but that's just me.

    Also based on what has been posted on this board it seems like I would have much more luck getting a real phone number in a regular dance club than in a strip club. Givng phone #s to customers seems taboo among strippers/dancers.

    It is true that on average the strippers/dancers will probably be more attractive than the women in a regualr dance club. It is also true that not every woman will dance with you. But some will and some will be attractive. Plus there's a chance that a girl at a regular club might really like you, which itself is a major turn-on. The chance of this happening at a strip club seems pretty low.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: lap dances

    >>"The older generation is more conservative, but they will eventually be replaced by the younger folks coming up. So strip clubs will have to become more risque. Only time will tell. But that's my prediction."

    your prediction is probably pretty much on target. throughout time, sexual behavior has increasingly become more open and acceptable. after all, it wasn't all THAT long ago where a woman showing her knees in public would have been considered extremely sluttish. how long it may take is subject to the rules of law and society in general.

    on another note... historically, younger men are more risque in their behavior and beliefs of what's acceptable sexually yet become more conservative as they grow older... doubtfully as conservative as the previous generation, but it adds more years to the changing beliefs of society in your scenerio... after all, society in general is still opposed to strip clubs at all.

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    Default Re: lap dances

    Luke, Luke, Luke..

    The sexual freedom of the sixties and seventies far exceeds anything we are seeing in today’s younger generation. The sexual freedom in the younger generation soon gives way to reality with a real life rise in marriage and strict monogamous relationships. (Verified by polls and public records)

    Wives that add 30 pounds and think that sex once or twice a month is acceptable find out (or not) that hubby is now hanging at a strip club with his buddies.

    What strip clubs are offering have been around since the days of the Romans and our great grand children will dance in a club on Mars.

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    Default Re: lap dances

    I reread Luke's first post and got another viewpoint.

    Luke, you asked why a guy would go to a stripclub and pay for a $20 airdance when he could go to a regular club and cop a cheap feel for free on the drunk girl.

    I don't know why I didn't see it before, but duh....guys don't go into strip clubs to meet "real" women, they go in there to meet their "fantasy" women.

    Although some may try (and most of the time fail) to get a stripper to go home with him for FREE. I think deep down inside, they know that they are going there for entertainment purposes rather than sexual ones. And those that ARE going to certain types of clubs for sexual purposes certainly KNOW they are going to have to PAY for extra contact!

    Comparing strip clubs to regular clubs is like comparing apples to oranges. Although they both have pretty scantily-clad girls there, they are completely different.

    After all the drunk girl on the dance floor isn't going to be dressed in a sexy see through gown, have perfect hair, nails, skin, and scent, rub your shoulders, coo in your ear, feed you grapes while topless, and make you feel like you are the most important person in the world.

    At best, the nightclub drunk girl might go home with you, give you 5 minutes of free, drunk sex (which face it...usually sucks) before she pukes on your floor, passes out in your bed and leaves you with a smelly mess that you somehow have to figure out how to get rid of the next morning.

    :o

    B
    Rebecca Avalon







  16. #16
    Pamela
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    Default Re: lap dances

    Hmmm the older generation (that i mainly like to cater too.) can only be replaced by men coming of "their" age. One guy is 40 and he passes away, another walks in the door the same age. I will never only be surrounded by 20 somethings. And raising does not have much to do with anything, when a man comes into a dance club. He has such a variety. And... he usually picks a favorite. The guys who are my regulars from time to time i will see them gatting a lap. Then they come talk to me, or ask for something pretty raunchy on stage. On stage i am so much more open to do LOTS of things to please, with out grinding a lap. I think alot of men like to watch a female get down with herself, that whole masturbation thing going on in his head is a huge turn on. So i am told. You will always have your stage dancers to please certain guys as well ass other ladies who like VIP's and laps. Variety is what is happening in the clubs. I love to see a regular go to another girl and get a lapdance while i do my thing directly for some other guys on stage. Guys make the rounds at times. And if someone strikes thier attention he's going to go for it. My experiences being a stripper. Pamela~

  17. #17
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: lap dances

    The sexual freedom of the sixties and seventies far exceeds anything we are seeing in today?s younger generation.
    Yes and no. There was a lot of sex going around then. On the other hand, you still had married couples sleeping in separate beds on television, and Edith Bunker was raising eyebrows when she said "breast."

  18. #18
    Featured Member Chuck149's Avatar
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    Default Re: lap dances

    The sexual freedom of the sixties and seventies far exceeds anything we are seeing in today’s younger generation.
    So true, being from the older generation (born 1950) I can attest to the sexual freedom of the sixties.
    I feel that it's not about sexual freedom with the younger generation, it's about "RESPECT". They don't have any for anyone.... especially women.
    Myself, and I suspect most of the men in my generation, were raised to respect women. I would rather have a sensual so called "air dance" performed in private by a beautiful lady, rather than a "grinding" lap dance any time.
    I have seen some posts where you youngsters are talking about "getting off" during a hot grinding lap dance. WOW you guys must be great lovers if that's all it takes.
    "when it comes to staying young, a mind-lift beats a face-lift any day" ~ Marty Bucella

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    Default Re: lap dances

    So how many guys are going to be satisfied with an air dance when women are much more open? So for better or worse I think lap dances and extras are here to stay or strip clubs as an industry are going to go through a major contraction.
    This is exactly the point, and also IMHO exactly the direction where the US dance club business is headed. Guys will be satisfied with an air dance if it's coming from the most stunningly beautiful dream girl he could ever conceive of. But if the girl is "merely" pretty, he's going to expect more for his money. Like the clubs in europe already, this will probably lead to a few zero contact "show clubs" which employ only the most stunningly beautiful dancers, and the remaining "sleaze clubs" where major contact is expected but which are the only clubs where "merely" pretty dancers will be able to get hired! The "contraction" you speak of will probably be the fact that "merely" pretty dancers who are not willing to provide major contact will find themselves out of a job in the future (or at least losing the ability to earn more dancing than they could earn at WalMart!).

  20. #20
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    Default Re: lap dances

    Luke, how are you doing with all these responses? Having lived along time and been involved with strip clubs and dancing for many years...I will tell you that men are basically visual, but now the laws allow close contact in alot of places and that is what YOU like. The whole point is, again, to each his own. I don't think it is so much generational. I think it has to do with covert and overt, legal limits etc. but don't kid yourself that older people are/were a bunch of prudes. The moral codes that have peppered strip club laws (and media) are being relaxed.../and now you guys have more legal choices....for overt activity...what I'm trying to say is that the "grind" has always been available...in secret!
    .maybe prostitution is the oldest proffessions but honey, the dancers came on first! There will always be guys who love to watch a woman STRIP
    Hope I made sense...Laurie

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    Default Re: lap dances

    Britney:

    I see your point. Some men apparently like the strip club scene, even without contact. I am only arguing that I think the proportion of men satisfied by no contact stripping will decline over time because of changing sexual mores.

    You have a very low opinion of regular dance club women. Why do they have to be drunk? I've met some very nice ladies in regular dance clubs. And the dances are not always "cheap" feels. Sometimes it can be quite erotic if two people are in tune to each other's rhythms and the music is good. To me, a nice close dance with somebody that I meet in a regular club is a much bigger turn on than somebody pretending to like me because I give them $.

    That's just me, there's nothing wrong with those who have other tastes. I was just curious about how many guys liked air dancing. I don't nor do I know any men who claim to. But apparently there are lots of them. Lucky for you ladies!

  22. #22
    Pamela
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    Default Re: lap dances

    There is one club i am familiar with in Stockholm Sweden, (i spoke with a friend via chat on our computers a few days ago. Her sister works for the "Cabaret Royal." She did say the club is both nude or not. They do not hire only the most gorgeous women dancers. They look for a woman who can dance. She said to audition you must be damn good at dancing and costume shows. These girls are NOT allowed to go home with customers. they prefer older to younger dancers as well.Men do not finger the ladies, or suck tits. They are an upscale club. And that is Sweden. I plan to vist on my next trip back. As the only one i ever did visit was Maxum (spelling may be wrong.) Nude as well. But all total nude...always. Rule: must be nude, and still no high contact.'Cabaret Royal' stands above the rest she says. They are open all through the night. Doors open at 9 or 10pm she said. I guess where i am going now with this message is..if you can dance here (the us.) and bring in bucks 15 years downthe road i don't believe you have to be a beauty queen. And will not be forced to work WalMart. I just don't see it. It has never ben that way since i have been dancing, it won't change. If you are a fair looking person, and can shake your ass, bring in bucks you will stay. You will be hired, lots of clubs here give girls a chance to see what they got. Looks are 40%. The rest is attitude, and yes attitude will get you in the door. You will not be expected to perform the so called "extras," or major contact i believe is just not true. I work with average girls who dance great, no high contact. It will be that way 15 years from now as well. Gives the average looking girl hope, and the will power to go for it. As more men may move on to escort services, our clubs will always hire a great assortment of women!!!! Pamela

  23. #23
    God/dess britneyireland's Avatar
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    Default Re: lap dances

    Luke,

    I think you missed my point, you are still comparing nightclub girls to strippers: "To me, a nice close dance with somebody that I meet in a regular club is a much bigger turn on than somebody pretending to like me because I give them $. "

    I don't have a low opinion of night club girls.... I've been that drunk girl on the dance floor bumpin' and grindin' away! In fact lots of the girls at nightclubs on the dance floor ARE strippers who aren't at work!!

    However, my purpose at the strip club is very different from my purpose at a nightclub. I seems like you are looking for the same type of erotic stimulation in both places, and are disappointed when a dancer (who is at work) "pretends" she likes you.

    I think Chuck is right that the sexual freedom of the 70s bred much more respect to women than the Generation Y's sexual open-ness. If you don't mind me asking, how old are you Luke? I'm borderline Gen X and Gen Y (born 1975), but I feel much more in tune with Gen Xers that are 5 years older than me than I do with Gen Yers that are 5 years younger than me.

    That brings up another point, there is nothing more disappointing than when I meet a guy at a strip club who seems really cool and nice to talk to....but then won't buy a dance because "I'm too cool to pay for lap dances" Usually it is younger good looking guys ages 21-25, and I wonder if that relates to this whole thread topic....good lookin' guys who are used to getting laid at nightclubs who don't quite "get" the whole idea of a strip club.
    Whattya think?
    Rebecca Avalon







  24. #24
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    Default Re: lap dances

    Britney:

    I was born in 1972. I think the guys you meet who are too "cool" to pay for dances probably are used to getting sex for free so probably are not that enticed by lap dances.

    I have to ask you, how is the erotic stimulation you provide differ from that I would get in a regular dance club? Maybe I have went to strip clubs witht the wrong attitude. Please enlighten.

    I suspect you're going to say you are providing a fantasy. But I could just as easily fantasize about someone in a regular dance club, no?

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    Default Re: lap dances

    Pamela, I don't want to risk another stressful situation between us, and I totally corroborate what you have said about zero contact "Show Clubs" in Europe. But what you did not mention is that there are also "Sex Clubs" in Europe, with the show element confined to the show clubs and the sex available to all at the sex clubs. I agree that the US club scene is very probably headed in this direction.

    I also agree that your advice to other girls that if they are a 'fair looking person" and can "shake their ass" that they 'll be able to keep earning money for years without performing so called "extras" may be true in certain fortunate locations. However, in fairness, you yourself will hopefully admit that it's already no longer true in Miami or Tampa which are right in your own "back yard".

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    Last Post: 09-01-2005, 01:51 PM

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