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Thread: What should I do ?

  1. #1
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    Default What should I do ?

    I am a regular at a small club. Unfortunity one of the dancers has an abusive boyfriend, and everyone knows it. He has hit her in the club, he has had her move away from her friends and family, and he makes her work 5p.m. to 2 a.m. 7 days a week, and of course he is unemployed.

    She does not have any close friends at the club, and I do not know if she has any close friend in the area. I have talked to some of the other dancers and they feel sorry for her, but do not want to interfere. I do not feel that it would be appropriate for me to say anything. I guess my best course of action would be to continue talking to the other dancers and hope that things work out okay. I guess if she does not want to leave no one can help her.

    Sorry for rambling, but I was thinking while typing, and a little emotional. Any ideas will be appricated . Thank yoy

  2. #2
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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    I also was going to ask if I should just mind my own business.

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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    I just wanted to start off by commending you on your concern and desire to do something. The worst thing to do in this situation is not do anything at all..."not interfere." So many people look the other way when it comes to this reality, and it's about time that we begin to take action and regard this topic as a social issue, not an individual or familial one.

    What to do??? This is tricky, and your concern may be initially met with anger or annoyance. Meaning if you approached her, admitted your worries, she may become angry with you. There are many different reasons for this (i.e. shame, disbelief, denial, inability to change at that moment, fear, etc.), and it can be very personal. This is a very intricate, delicate, and dimensional issue. The best way to approach this (in my opinion) is to be genuine. Pull her aside, where no one can hear you, and state your concern in a very calm, nonaccusatory manner. Say that this is what you have seen, and that you are worried for her well-being and that you care. She may not want to hear it at all. She may turn around and yell at you. But she may remember you in the future, when she is ready and willing to change. She is in a difficult position...her partner has done a good job of cutting her ties to anyone else, except for him (read: total and complete control). So when it comes time for her to realize that she wants to leave, she may have nowhere to go, or anyone to turn to...making it inordinately difficult to do so. So, if you just reach out to her once in awhile, perhaps gain her trust by being consistent, she may come to you when she needs you/is ready. If you are interested, it may also be a good idea to do some research in the area. Find out about domestic violence shelters, hotlines, centers, and women's organizations in your location. So if she ever does come to you for assistance, you will have places to refer her to.

    I really hope this helps. If you want any more information, feel free to send me a personal message(click on my name). I can find out local organizations for you. I have done a lot of research and education in this area, so ask me if you have any questions. Good luck and thank you for caring.

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    Veteran Member hollyday's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    as a victim of domestic violence myself...i admire u for at least being concerned for her
    a lot of people would even go that far
    she's not going to leave him until she's had enough..all u can really do is be there for her..has she told u that is is going on.?
    your in a tough spot..
    try and find out about battered womens shelters or counselling for battered women,
    there ust be something in the yellow pages.i went to see a counsellor after my ex almost killed me and it literally saved my life..maybe pointing her in the right direction could give her the inspiration she needs...
    thank goodness theres still guys like u around
    i will pray for her and u should to
    shes gonna need it
    blessed be

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Tre's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    I was all ready to respond after reading your post, Steve. But, after reading ML's initial advice and finding that it would mirror my own, I'll use this space to commend him on an excellent post.

    Solid advice, Merely_Lurking. Well said.
    "The elastic retreat rings the close of play as the last wave uncovers the newfangled way."

  6. #6
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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    Steve


    The first thing that I think you need to do is try to get her to talk to you without her boyfriend around (which can be difficult if he hangs out in the club)


    I would suggest that you try to let her stay with you or help find her a new place to live if that is possible. I think that the best thing for you to do is to offer to let her stay with you and tell her very clearly that her boyfriend is not allowed to come over to your place for any reason (and get a restraining order from the police if you need to).

    I don't know if you are willing to go that far but if you are that is nice of you.

    I would suggest for you to spend as little money as possible on her because everything that you spend on her will likely go to her boyfriend.

    If you can get her to trust you and to believe that you will help her, I think that will be a big accomplishment. I wouldn't worry about him hitting you (although I don't know this particular guy and I could be wrong) because in my experience, boyfriends of dancers who act like this seem to be afraid of someone who can defend themselves.

    There is a good chance that she won't get rid of him even if you are successful in helping her. She may try to get him to change his ways and may even try to get you to make friends with him (I am completely serious about this)

    Good Luck

  7. #7
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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    Thanks for all the advise.

    I think I will take a little bit of advise from everyone and do some research tonight. Then try to talk to her in the least threatening way I can just to try to open the lines of communication. I am worried that she will think that I am trying to come on to her. I would still prefer a dancer talked to her instead of me. There is one other dancer that have not been able to talk to yet that maybe helpful. Wouldn't she be more likely to trust another female ? Or would it be better if we both talked to her and she could confide in which everone she felt more comfortable with, or would that make her feel like she was being teamed up on.

    Holly Day to answer your question she has not told me about the abuse in the way I laid it out it has been more like hints that I have put together. For example she told me her boyfriend came in and "made a scene",but did not give any details. Another Dancer told me he hit her. She told me she works everyday because "they" need the money, but the next time I see her she complains that her boyfriend is not even trying to find a job. Sorry rambling again.

    I will do what I can, but I admit I am worried about getting involved and this turning into a nightmare. I think merely_lurking made an excellent point.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member hollyday's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    /me is ashamed of tre
    i would have expected better advice coming from u...how would u like it if your present girlfriend or any other women u loved was abused by a man at some point in their life..i think it would bother u...not get involved...im not saying force her to leave..do and intervention and the like...but it's advice like that that perpetuates battered women to suffer in silence...
    i dont condone screwing up your own life to help someone, but if no one got involved the statistics of battered women and abused children would be astronomical.
    let me put it this way,,if it was a child being abused would you be more inclined to care..well this girl is someones child....
    blessed be

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    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    You have to be very careful getting involved in abusive relationships.

    Police hate most of all calls concerning domestic violence. Twice I have had women begging me to save them from their guy and you can get into trouble, my friend. Once I helped a girl out with her abusive, threatening boyfriend, only to have her turn on me, because her boyfiend was pissed I got what she wanted from him, her keys or something, it was ridiculous!

    Another time a woman was begging me over and over to save her from her boyfriend who was starting to getting very physical with her. I tried being mellow but he was manhandling her, one thing led to another, he attacked me and I had to choke him out. He started screaming for her to help him, but she didn't (thank god). The problem is they will often turn on the rescuer, notably you, my friend, if you are not careful. Not only that but the police would have arrested me for assault, possibly attempted murder, had they driven by at that point in time!

    Abusive relationships do not follow the normal rules of logic. It can take a long time for the weak partner to finally reach the point where they are ready to break free. Even the most benevolent intervention can backfire, and you get into deep shit for trying to help.

    Be careful, I am glad to see you are a gentleman, but don't let it get you into touble.

    Djoser
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    Dude, just run and stay away! Trust me on this one! It is unfortunate that this is happening. But you do not want to get into the middle! I have tried helping out people in the past, and then they just twist everything around and blame you for something you didnt do! You do not need that shit! Then who knows, maybe her bf will go after you, or shit, maybe she will even call the cops saying you are harrassing her. Then you will be really hurt and not want to help anyone again. Just stay away!

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    Veteran Member DJ_WuLf's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    OK ... my $2 worth. I think it makes a BIG difference how you handle this depending on whether these conversations are going on INSIDE or OUTSIDE the club. IF you are her customer and listening to her inside the club Only, then sympathize, suggest all the options like shelters and friends but DO NOT GET PHYSICALLY INVOLVED. Point out to her that she makes enough in one night to get away from this guy so money is not a good excuse to stay and that the Club is a relatively safe haven for her. TALK to her, but inside the Club, thats ALL you can do. Just for info: This situation happens ALL the time (way too often unfortunately). IF it's outside the Club then things are different but I don't believe it is in this case.

    You cannot help someone. (period) THEY have to help themselves, but you can be supportive and help them help themselves. One thing to point out is this: IF YOU LOVE SOMEONE YOU HAVE TO LOVE THE WAY THEY TREAT YOU. If you don't then it's not Love.

    Many victims of abuse relate anger and even violence to attention and attention to Love. This is the mindset that has to change before anything about the situation will change. Anger and especially violence are NOT Love. This is where YOU can help with words.

    If she has kids (whether the children are HIS or not) point out that when children see thier parents fighting (and then making up) they also learn to relate anger and violence to Love starting the cycle over for yet another generation. This is child abuse even if the children themselves are never physically or verbally abused by either parent. Point it out ....Words. (and NO ...shes not going to like hearing this one)

    Get Involved?? YES. It's better to have tried and failed then to never try at all. This applies both to your involvement AND to her relationship. Failure is not defeat. It's just another step to success both in business and in relationships and success means knowing when to move on from the failures to the next attempt at success. (or Love).

    14 years working in Strip Clubs. "What a long strange trip it's been"

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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    Hi. I agree you should not get involved, alhtough I think for different reasons. Make sure she knows her options (and that living with you isn't one - because you're a customer and it looks tacky and gross to say "you can stay with me as long as you want.") Find out what shelters are located near you, find hotlines and give them to her. She will probably leave them in club, because abusive men don't tend to like their partners having such things. Wulf is right, unfortunately. We have probably all seen women make such drastic mistakes about relationships, but we can't just make them get out of it, or make them do anything, and if we could it would do no good, because that pattern of control and abuse would be unbroken. Just getting a card from a SEDNA women's shelter, or abuse hotline and handing to her, saying "In case you might need something like this" is probably the best you can do.

    Jenny
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Featured Member tragic-beauty's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    i guess it depends on the situation.. Maybe she wants to leave him but hes so abusive shes scared to..


    I think not saying anything isnt the best idea.. but it is understandable that you dont want a buncha crap to deal with.. He sounds like a regular loser boyfriend.. And I think him getting away with being a " Big man" and hitting her is wrong to say the least


    But if she "Loves him" and wants to stay.. then theres nothing you can do.. She will stay no matter what you say to her.



    If I was in the same position as you.. I would atleast try.. No one deserves to be treated like that.

  14. #14
    Pamela
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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    One good point here would be, (since you are confused on how to handle this situation, and who would not be.) Some women, especially the ones who know people are seeing this, eventually talk! And when she (if she does) talks the door is open for you to help. It can be a nasty situation and she may very well be so desperate, that she may one night mention you. That can not be good. You really never know how it is going to go. She is not a child, and she is making her own choices. It may sound strange and cold, but alot of these women don't want to leave the man. i would wait to see if she starts talking...thats a good sign then.
    MY only question??? Why hasn't anyone called tho police when he hit her? There is usually someone around who really HATES that kind of behaviour. Especially at work. very sad. Pamela

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    Veteran Member Tre's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    I'm sorry to hear that, Holly.

    To start off, I am currently in a relationship with someone this has happened to in the past.
    I am sympathetic. I offer what support I can. Beyond that, there isn't much I can do to change what has happened.
    However, I can do something to ensure these past events have the least amount of impact on this persons life in the future.
    IMO, that IS getting involved, yet not forcing someone to relive traumatic events.
    ------------------------
    I was not implying that anyone should "suffer in silence". ML recommended offering possible services or counselling and the like, to which I whole-heartedly agree.
    I also agree on the concept of keeping emotional distance. Judging by past experiences, adding a third party to a messy situation only complicates things more for everyone involved.

    My basic advice. Focus on solving the problem at hand, WITHOUT adding new parameters. In that, SHE must be willing to help herself.

    That being said, we must make the distinction that this is not a child. This is, presumably, a grown woman who is capable of making informed decisions.
    Capable of reviewing her own situation and making the choice to change it.
    If it does not change, well....

    "The elastic retreat rings the close of play as the last wave uncovers the newfangled way."

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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    My two cents of advice for you, Steve...

    1. As everyone else said, do a little homework and find some resources for battered women that may be helpful to her. Make sure she is aware that these resources are available.

    2. Don't get yourself emotionally involved. It will fuck with you. And the odds are that unless she is really tired of it, she won't appreciate your efforts.

    3. Do not make any UNSOLICITED offers for places to stay, etc., as it will most likely just cause you trouble. The caveat to this comes when and if the girl directly requests your assistance. At that point, if you feel prepared to do so, it may be okay to offer your aid. But maintain that emotional detachment, for your own sake. And be prepared for a world of shit.

    4. Listen to her, when she talks. That doesn't mean giving unsolicited advice. That doesn't mean demonstrating your chivalrous outrage at her boyfriend's behavior. That means listening, and giving polite and restrained input when it is requested. That's called being supportive, in it's own way. If you are not prepared to listen without getting visibly pissed, etc., then you are too emotionally invested in this girl and should just walk away.

    5. Lover, unfortunately, has a point about where her money is most likely going. I say this for two reasons - if he is unemployed and she is working that much, he is either taking all her money (which prevents her from having the funds to leave on her own). Otherwise, she is choosing to use her money to support them instead of using it to leave him, which means she isn't likely to leave, regardless of what you do for her.

    6. It could be that she is actually rather content with the situation, and just says anything to you when she is annoyed with her guy, or when she thinks you'll feel sorry and spend more money. That does not mean that she isn't abused. And that does not make any abuse okay, by any stretch of the imagination. But that is how some situations are.

    Hope it helps. Just remember that you can do nothing to help one who will not help herself. Not all who are sinking feel the need to be saved.

    McCain


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    Featured Member LEIGH_LANDON's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    Offer up the help such as support groups, shelters going to her family etc. Getting involved directly does not bode well, I know from experience. If she really wants out, let her know you can help by directing her to the centers that are provided by our communites and social welfare.
    Once my girlfriends husband accosted her while her and I were at a pub, and he goaded her to into an altercation she asked him repeatedly to go, or lets talk quietly or later, he worked himself up to the point where he lunged at her strangling her right at the table, no one did ANYTHING! I freaked because she was turning blue and no one I mean no one came forward, I was blown away and pleaded with him to let her go let her go and got up myself to pull his fingers from her throat, THEY THEN BOTH ATTACKED ME!! Down I went table overturned drinks flying I scrambled to my feet and bolted! It is a double edged sword, helping or sitting by silently---- I say keep a measurable distance but letting her know there ARE people that can help, the law being a big part of this, there are support groups and shelters and social workers and family. Be careful getting involved in any of this.
    LIVE LONG & PROSPER!
    Leigh Landon

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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    Just to state my opinion, I see a little bit of wrong and right in all of the responses. I belive that any person (not just men) that "see" a man lay his hands on a women and do nothing are as bad as the man who is doing it. If you don't see it what are you supposed to do? If she talks to you about it (even hinting) then I would continue with that conversation and offer the help, though I do not suggest unsolicited help because as someone else said the women themselves tend to become very defensive. Abusive relationships are sometimes the most difficult to know how to approach. I hope that you can find a way to help her.

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    Featured Member susan's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    Jeez.... be careful of this situation. I spent a short time volunteering at a battered women's shelter. I cannot TELL you how many women I saw come in the middle of the night with the shit beat out of them, only to run RIGHT back to the bastard the next day. I had nightmares over that. I actually had to get counseling just to get rid of the fuking nightmares. I'm not kidding.

    What can you do? Nothing. Period. Until she's ready to move on, she won't. You can't encourage her. You can't help her. You can't even report her to the police, cuz as God is my witness, the LAST thing the cops want to get involved with is an ALLEGED emotional battery issue between a stripper and her worthless boyfriend. (And believe me... if it's gotten to the point where the cops need to be involved, they already know ALL about it. Don't think for one minute they don't.)

    Also, I'd bet every dollar you can stuff under a garter that the club management knows about this situation and will

    Here's what you CAN do if you get involved:

    1) Get the shit beaten out of yourself
    2) Get in trouble with the law
    3) End up dead
    4) All of the above

    Bottom line... stay the FUCK away from this mess.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    I like you Susan! You said what I was basically saying but I was trying not to be too nasty, as I probably would have been ambushed by you ladies. But you said it best, and I hope we dont have to hear anymore on this subject.

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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    Money-why don't you want to hear more on this subject? Yes, it's tiring, tedious, and redundant. The reason being is because it happens too fucking often allowing for the tedium to take hold. My response to this is not brush it under the rug because it's an annoying/angering/frustrating/unhappy/unsexy topic, but rather talk and talk and talk some more. There is too much silence in regards to this. And the fucked up thing is is that most of us (maybe I could venture to say almost all of us) either know personally what this kind of relationship means and feels like or vicarously. Yet somehow it still persists so incredibly frequently. Why is that? Why do (some) men feel like it is warranted to control/abuse another individual, whether it's another man, or a child or a woman? Why do we, as a society, continue to let it happen? Why are we not angry?

    I agree with the multitude of statements that mention that it is best not to get directly and emotionally involved. I would not recommend offering your place as a shelter...that's why there are shelters. This is an incredibly emotionally dimensional issue...and difficult to understand why a woman stays. Either way, if she "chooses" to stay, does that mean she deserves being abused?

    In my opinion, the best option is to let her know her options. She may not choose to leave, maybe not in another couple of years, but when she does she will at least have the information to make the best choice for her at the time. Yes she may turn on you, and that's not because you are a bad person. Even if she responds negatively to you, know in your heart that you reached out to her, when so many people have turned their back. She will remember you in the future.

    The only time that this issue should be lain to rest is when women are no longer being abused by their partners. Until then, I want to hear people being pissed off, angry, indignant, and desire for change.

    The biggest question for me is, why do some men feel like they have every right to behave in this manner and treat another individual this way?

    Alright guys, I am stepping down from my pulpit!!!! Thanks for hearing me out. There's nothing like a good passionate rant once in a while to clear up your sinuses!!!!

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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    Okay, I basically agree with everything that the more intelligent women on the board have said about being supportive, pointing her in the right direction, and not becoming a part of the situation unless your head is really screwed on good.

    When I read your post, I tried to think back to what made the difference for me. I know I spent years being happily abused, but at some point, I decided to leave (the situation was a little different because I was a minor). Anyways, I think what made the biggest difference to me was to know that people actually cared. I mean that people existed who thought that I mattered and that I shouldn't have the shit beat out of me every couple days. Then I had this little pamphlet from the womens shelter. It had the cycle of domestic violence on one side, emergency preparedness on the other side, with all the shelters contact info and address. I hung on to that thing and I read it every chance I got for like a month before I left. So I'm thinking that your local womens shelter probably has a similer brochure, and that it might be a good thing for her to have...

    Lena



  23. #23
    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    These men feel they have the right to abuse others because at heart they are miserable, weak, and pathetic. The easiest way to hide from this sort of core insecurity is to dominate and humiliate others. If you look deep inside anyone who is arrogant and always trying to control others, you will see a small and insecure soul. These guys are just one step beyond this, so what helps to make all our lives miserable (dealing with bosses, celebrities, police, and politicians)becomes actually life-threatening.

    There is also generally a history of abuse in this kind of person's background, either of himself when a child, or witnessed--daddy kicking shit out of mommy, or both.

    I hate and detest the need to protect myself from harm by staying out of situations like these, when all that is decent within me cries out that it must be stopped. But time and time again the would-be rescuer winds up in more trouble than the victim.

    Would I wind up rolling in the mud, a screaming punk's neck in the crook of my arm, if I could go back in time? Goddamn it, probably yes, and as it turned out, her pleas for my intervention were genuine, as she DIDN'T jump on my ass when he started screaming for her to save him.

    But it could have turned out very differently, especially if she had reacted like the other woman who was crying and begging for help, and turned on me and by way of thanking me, told all her friends what an asshole I was for interfering. Thank God there was no violence in this situation, though it came close, because she WOULD have jumped on my ass.

    The only thing people can do without risk of getting arrested through misunderstanding, having their reputation ruined through vicious verbal assualt, beaten up by both parties, or killed, is to be ready with the information that others have suggested (shelters, etc), calmly and patiently reassure the victim that they have the power to break free, and leave it at that. Easier said than done...

    But much, much safer.

    This is especially true of the male intervening, as he will be perceived much more readily as a threat by the abusive, possessive, violent male. And in an exotic dance club, with the tendency for guys to get all hung up on a performer, the helpful customer might suddenly become a suspect whacko.

    Djoser



    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

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  24. #24
    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    Sorry to repeat myself and restate the obvious, I was trying to answer Athena's question "why...", which I think I did, but once again my verbosity got the best of me.

    Djoser
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

    ______________________________________

  25. #25
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    Default Re: What should I do ?

    Djoser

    You hit the nail right on the head when you said "These men feel they have the right to abuse others because at heart they are miserable, weak, and pathetic."

    I would add that in my observation, at least some guys like this are addicted to drugs and have mental problems (I don't think that drugs alone could explain some of the behavior that I have seen). These guys seem to be unable to handle having a job, even a very basic job. They seem unable to cope with the stress (by the way, I have also known dancers who are like that which is the reason they dance)

    Many dancers refuse to leave boyfriends like this and sometimes their relationship ends when the boyfriend goes to jail/prison.

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