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Thread: Moral values?

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    Default Moral values?

    :o
    Are the moral values of a club set up by management, politicians, the dancers, or all three?
    Does one group have more influence over the others for regulating the rules posted in the clubs for the Dancers aswell as the Customers to follow?
    Is there any effective way for the Dancers to police their peers, so that the Dancers who are willing to stretch or break the rules (to make a enxtra buck), won't drag down an otherwise Popular club amongst the Dancers?

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    Default Re: Moral values?

    I think that in most cases they (club owners) start out by going along with state/city/county laws and then adding in their own along with the others. I really don't think they care what the entertainers think.
    As far as policing other dancers....... You'd have to make sure you had a majority of the dancers on your side while doing this so you don't get black balled. It's not a good thing to be known as a snitch. Most of the clubs that I've worked at that had things going on that I had nothing to do with, I just looked the other way. Maybe not the "right" thing to do but I really doubt my opinion would have stopped the things from going on anymore.

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    Default Re: Moral values?

    It varies. If vice cracks down, dances clean up. The owner and managers get insistant that the law is followed. Then gradually it slides back down to a level that the majority of dancers are comfortable with. At this point, if a dancer exceeds this undefined limit then the other girls police her. During this stage, managers see to develop vision problems and what was once an offense is no longer. So, I suppose what I am saying is that often it is the dancers as a group that set the limits. Although, they never talk about it or I have never been invited to such a meeting.

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Moral values?

    I feel like the ludeness has gotten totally out of control. girls are doing anything for $20.00 a dance these days. If the girls who are doing extra favors for $20 are proud of themself then why not go into prostatution? I want to make my money by dancing. I dont feel like I need to fondled just to make more money. It all comes to this if everyone would stop doing the bullshit the guys would not expect it!!!!

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    Default Re: Moral values?

    I agree in principle Airiana, but once "the Genie is out of the bottle" in regard to high mileage it's extremely difficult to put him back in! High mileage not only earns more money for the girls that provide it, but usually offers more income to the club as well (from their percentage of the extra private dances sold, extra customers coming in etc.). Unless forced to by heat from local cops, club management is not going to willingly take a cut in income. If anything, they're going to encourage more dancers to offer high mileage in order to further increase club income. I had an incident a few years back in a tiny club with 12 dancers offering low mileage private dances. One new dancer started working there, and we 11 dancers immediately noticed that she was earning major on lots of private dance sales. We also noticed that new customers started showing up at the club who were giving the 11 of us problems expecting major mileage, that some old customers were not coming into the club any more, and that our own private dance sales were lagging. We scoped out the new dancer #12 and found that she was providing not only major mileage but nearly the "whole enchalada", which was also WAY beyond the dotted line legally speaking. The 11 of us confronted the club owner to either stop dancer #12 from doing the high mileage shit or we were all quitting. The club owner thought about it for exactly 15 seconds .... and fired all 11 of us on the spot! He then picked up the phone and called his fellow 'good ol boy' clubowners in adjacent areas. Before we were changed back into street clothes and had collected our private dance money for the night, 6 girls we had never seen before walked into the club and headed straight for the dressing room to 'suit up'.

    The next night 11 new dancers came in, and according to customers I ran into later at another club all of these girls were just as sleazy as #12. The club owner was making more money than he ever had before! ... at least until two months later when the club was busted, closed permanently, and the clubowner wound up doing some time as a guest of the state! Moral of the story - complaining about it got 11 of us fired and the club closed forever. 4 of us managed to get hired at the one club in an adjacent area where the clubowner wasn't a 'good ol' boy' buddy - the other clubs wouldn't touch us with a 10 foot pole after our original clubowner put out the word to his 'good ol' boy' buddies that the 11 of us were troublemakers. The remaining 7 dancers who were fired couldn't 'measure up' to the standards of the one non-affiliated club that did hire 4 of us and the 7 dancers either moved or gave up dancing.

    Well, I guess we did stop dancer #12 from giving high mileage dances! But it was certainly a Phyrric Victory.

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    Senior Member JustaGirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Moral values? DAMN STRAIGHT!!!!

    I agree with both - been there done that. Still, if there is a will there is a way. I am not the only one who remembers big money for respectable work. Remember when there were clubs that never got busted and everyone was making money? These clubs were packed all the time with an array of customer types. I know there are others who want that atmosphere back.
    Hell, if blue eyeshadow can make a comeback then so can sexuality as entertainment & not just SEX.
    In this world anything can be sold. It's just up to who is selling it.
    It's not that there is not a market for "go-go" dancing anymore, the internet did not take it over. Prostitution moved into the clubs and moved the entertainers and the customers out.
    Forgive me if I sound unrealistic but the market is out there and things are changing.
    Feature agencies are tiring of the influx of porn-to-dancer and novelty acts. I know this as fact. This shows they are making less money, hence the clubs are making less money. They want something different. If top feature agencies are in need of better quality entertainment then certainly there will be a trickle down effect back through the gentlemen's clubs to your local bikini bar.
    How many of you have talked to men who actually don't visit strip clubs? How many times have you heard why they don't go? Money.
    The average Joe cannot afford to sit in a strip club for more then 2-3 sets. Sure, he can sit there all night and be made to feel like an asshole because bitchy dancers sneer and yell at him for not tipping. How many nasty customers have accused you of begging or you have been made to feel so? People are not happy.
    Of course there is also the whole quality vs. quantity factor which plays a major role in quality entertainment.

    People have posted here, people are tired of it. All of it. Forgive my French BUT face it - people are walking into bars all over the place looking at dancers they wouldn't f**k with someone else's dick who are sucking off other guys for $10 bucks. I think at some level some people might just want that to change!

    I truly believe things will come full circle again. There IS a market and there are people to market it.

    <Jumping off my soapbox!>

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    Default Re: Moral values?

    They're determined by all three groups and it introduces a volatile triad where none needs to be. As to influence, that depends on how you view power and influence, victimization and oppression. For some people, power and influence must always display a visible price tag. Unless you remove the financial incentive to hire people who can't, won't or don't dance for a living in a strip club, you don't have a hope in hell of equitably redistributing the balance of power and influence among those who do. But that has no basis in or reliance on a moral stance, it's simply an operational foundation that's been turned turned on it's head by a broken business model.

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    Default Re: Moral values? DAMN STRAIGHT!!!!

    How many of you have talked to men who actually don't visit strip clubs? How many times have you heard why they don't go? Money.
    That's not the reason I hear most often. "Boring" and "bullshit" are tied for 1st.

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    Default "Moral" values? I think not

    I ususally hear "Why would I want to get teased by some girl I could never have?"

    I agree, the decline in clubs sucks. Using a term like "moral values" to describe any aspect of the entertainment industry seems pretty laughable though. I think maybe the term we're looking for here is "code of conduct." And it is determined by money, basically. We're in a buyer's market, like it or not, thanks to the abundance of adult entertainment and its mainstreaming over the past decade. I agree with Melonie - the industry will change completely. What I believe will happen is eventually clubs will be so outrageous they'll be cracked down on by the law and the ones that don't have steady clientele will go down.
    I wish that sexual activity would be confined to massage parlors or lingerie modeling studios so that strip clubs could be about stripping. What happened to massage parlors when it became obvious that massages were leading to happy endings? Law enforcement cracked down. I think the same will happen to strip clubs.
    Now, I certainly don't disagree with anyone's right to buy or sell sexual gratification, but it's not I what I want to sell. I want to sell titillation - sexually charged entertainment. And there are still buyers out there. I think the market for videos, phone sex, adult magazines and webcams illustrates that not every guy wants to go out and get jacked off as part of his sexual entertainment - they are still into the visual and mental aspects of sexuality. That's the part I want to provide.

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    Default Re: Moral values?

    "People have posted here, people are tired of it. All of it. Forgive my French BUT face it - people are walking into bars all over the place looking at dancers they wouldn't f**k with someone else's dick who are sucking off other guys for $10 bucks. I think at some level some people might just want that to change! I truly believe things will come full circle again. There IS a market and there are people to market it. "

    This is absolutely true, but with a very important twist. Yes I agree that there will always be a market for live "exotic entertainment" without the heavy sexual overtones and without the heavy contact. But the twist is that the amount of demand for this sort of upscale entertainment is insufficient to keep such an upscale club in business in small and medium sized cities. Just like car dealers where you can buy a Chevy in every town but you have to drive 150 miles to buy a Ferrari, these upscale clubs can only make a go of it in very large cities where the demand results in enough business to support the club. And following the same analogy, only one car salesman in 50 has a shot at working in the Ferrari dealership!

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    Default Re: Moral values?

    I am seeing the demand for such entertainment (without the prostitution & heavy petting) increasing. Maybe I'm an optimist but when I posted about top feature agencies in need of "different" entertainment I think this proves my theory. Clubs owners will not change things until their pocketbooks are effected. Obviously it is happening already. Club owners contact the talent agencies to hire a feature to bring more revenue into their clubs. If the top agencies are in need of quality entertainment it means the current feature entertainment is just not cutting it anymore. These agencies are now also offering dance instruction. They NEED entertainers who entertain! As Belinda said the customers are bored.
    As a result of all of this I am getting back into featuring. Why? The obvious reason is money - the amount of money for something I enjoy doing is now worth it to me. I would not be going back to dancing if I didn't feel I could do my job and get paid accordingly.
    I do see a trend here; change is coming. I do work in different aspects of the entertainment business but my first love is dancing. I am excited about the changes I see happening.
    As far as your Ferrari analogy Melonie, I have seen tiny clubs in tiny cities packed with a happy staff and clients. I don't see this happening again as being so far fetched. Yes, of course a lot of dancers will lose their jobs as many will not be able to live up to the standards that made these clubs so popular in the first place.
    Yes, a lot of men frequent clubs for sexual gratification but I do believe there is a market for fantasy. Standards will again be set.
    There is a place for all forms of sexual entertainment. If anyone remembers the alphabetical rating system then you remember there was a place for different levels of dancers and the entertainment provided, eg., different shifts for different dancers, different clubs, etc.
    Also morale plays a very important role in this business. If club owners are not happy the staff is not happy, if the staff is not happy the customers are not happy and vice versa.
    Changes in the industry are already happening, why not embrace it and encourage it?

  13. #12
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    Default Re: Moral values? Good Point!!

    In my club the girls that put in the most effort on stage as far as costumes and showmanship etc. are the ones making the most money. It doesn't hurt to have a great body and a pretty face as well, but it is the ones who put on a good show that are doing a lot of the "no contact" private dances.

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    Default Re: Moral values?

    That sounds perfect.

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    Default Re: Moral values?

    Believe it or not, I really don't enjoy being an "eternal pessimist". But I also know a thing or two about featuring - particularly non-XXX featuring! Yes, there is now increased demand for non XXX features. But if you check the "fine print" you'll find out that the main reason for this is that the vast majority of clubs which book features are now concerned that advertising a XXX feature and then letting her "bend" state and local laws on the club's stage puts the club at risk of taking a bust - a bust that can't be pawned off on the house dancers but which will fall squarely on club management. Economic reality is that outside of about eight big city clubs in the entire USA which book features regularly and pay them well, small and medium sized city clubs who book an occasional feature aren't willing to pay much. This translates into about 8 potential bookings a year which will be very profitable, but 30 or 40 other bookings where you'll wind up driving 500 miles yourself on Sundays, staying at Motel 6 and eating out of a cooler to make any money. Of course the agency doesn't really care because 10-15-20% of something is better than 10-15-20% of nothing!

  16. #15
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    Default Re: Moral values?

    Hi,
    i do no contact. And i am happy with the money i make. I just don't (for 1,) want to be part of a crowd that 'may ' be working at the clubs and doing illegal practices. People know me. And know i am a no cantact girl. So, i had to fly with the contact girls, and make up sexy dance routines. Always eye contact. On the floor i will take a guy by his tie up to the stage and do a sexy pole grind for him..Yes!!! it pays. You learn alot of excellent tricks when you are a no contact girl. Dress different, stand out in the crowd...ect.
    Pamela

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    Default Re: Moral values?

    Girls,let's be men for an instant. If you guys were men and had some money to blow, where would you go? To a club where you pay $20 for air dances or $20 for full contact dances with an occasional extra available from the right girls?

    That is why in Houston the Men's Club is slow as death now andTreasures down thestreet is always busy. They both have girs ranging from 8-10's and are lavish inside.

    Guys look at going to clubs or experiencing other ladiesas a sport. We all know that birds of a feather flock together and professional men will seek out clubs which are above average in decor and who have more polished looking and classy dancers. People want to be round those lik hem and white collar educated guys who look like theywalked right out of Nordstrom are not comfortable being in a club with working class guys and dancers who look like they came from the wrong side of the tracks.They'll stand out like sore thumbs and that is also why men of color who are educated feel morecomfortable in a higher end club. They can't relate with the clientele and girls in a poorer lookingclub.

    All guys are stimulated through their penises. My point is if guys have a choice of two nice clubs one with air dances an onewith major contact given the dancers are comparable in looks, they will go to theclub with more"stimulation" available.

    Their are few moral values here. Men who fit the ages of our target customers are mostly married and seek variety. They will not come forth to the public and admit that they go to clubs unless they are amongst like cmpany.

    Guys already don't come to the clubs as much, earnings are not consistent for us dancers as in past years and I don't see these few Neiman Marcus air dance clubs becoming a wave of the future creating the same stir that the transition from Go Go bar to gentlemens club had in the early 90's.

    I visit clubs all over the country and see girls selling a dance here and there and lots of idle dancers. In Minneapolis the other night I went to two of their top clubs, Sheiks (which has gone down) and Ricks, which was slow. These are gown clubs. You can always argue that every girl won't make money but in the clubs of old, girls could go from table to table and guys would buy several dances from several girls and the stage action was lively. You don't seethat much anymore. The girl who hit $400 last night might hit $60 tonight, and vice versa. this is the way it is, city after city and club after club I go in. Guys aren't interested in spnding money on someone they can't be with. The focushas be on the unattractive older man or one who is unhappy at home and past his prime as far as attracting pretty girls to date and most clubs don't fill up with enough ofthose guys a night fo most girls who hustle to make money on.

    This business is on a steady decline and unless something similar to the transition of Go Go's to upscale clubs happens which will generate enough excitement to get millions of men out to the clubs again to spend money on dancers (which I can't visualize now), this business will gradually provide such minimal income that girls won't be attracted to it anymore. Guys don't want to be teased. They want to be satisfied. Would you rather window shop or really shop?

    All of us who are not willing to have sex for money will be phased out as that is what the guys realy want anyway.And lotsof guys cant afford to blow several hundred dollars or more on dances. Even massage parlors are feeling the pinch too, but they will rise out of the recession.

    Where do you see the clubs you dance at now in 7 years? Will your daughters have the chance to dance 10 years from now and earn what we did consistently 10 years ago?

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    Veteran Member Theresa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Moral values?

    "Girls,let's be men for an instant. If you guys were men and had some money to blow, where would you go? To a club where you pay $20 for air dances or $20 for full contact dances with an occasional extra available from the right girls? "

    I couldn't agree more. I live right near the border of Buffalo and Canada. Every club in Buffalo is a "pastie" club, with no contact allowed, a big fuss is made if a customer so much as touches a dancers legs. Dances at most places are $20 USD. However, if you travel 5 minutes across the bridge and go to a Canadian strip club, you get full nudity with alcohol (something unheard of in New York State), guys are allowed to go up on stage and put a dollar in their mouth to tip the girls, and as far as the dances go, the only rules are (besides no prostitution) a girl cant touch between a guys legs, guys can't touch between a girls legs and guys can't suck on the girls tits. Other than that, any touching is fair game. Also, dances are $20 Canadian, which works out to be about $14 American.

    I just moved from working in Buffalo to working in Canada, and I find that over 90% of the patrons in Canadian strip clubs are American, coming over to get WAY more than they can get in the states. Last night I sold over 20 dances, and I have NEVER sold that many dances on a Tuesday in the US, EVER. When I worked in the US, I came across a lot of guys who would not buy dances because "dances are a lot better in Canada." Because of this, I was forced to choose between working in a no contact pasty club for peanuts or heading across the border and making real money, but providing real contact. :-/

  19. #18
    Pamela
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    Default Re: Moral values?

    Again i agree with you all on the up and down nights, but me being a 'no contact' dancer has it's advantages. Remember: There are alot of guys who don't want contact. Alot just want to sit back relax and watch his favorite girl dance for him on the stage. Some guys just don't want a woman's ass all over his lap, and thats normal too! I make contact with my customers by smiling and talking with them. Then dancing to any song they request (if it's avaliable,) They ask for raunchy pole dancing i give it. They do stick money all over garters that i wear, or with their mouths put it in my shoe's...They love it. I have learned the fine art of grabbing attention in the whole room, by asking the Dj to up the music, turn on the strobes and start getting down!!!! Alot of other girls in the club have stopped what they are doing to watch...I don't care. I have to work my specialties by being a stage performer. I have the room cheering at times! And guys throw money to me when i rock the house! Then i give a guy a little one on one action by having him right at the very end of the stage while i arch and hump for him while mouthing music lyrics! They eat it up. Of course spreading your legs open in front of him while in a sexual position is always a money maker!
    And i do as well as contact girls..i know it..i see it.
    I have the attitude, and thats what it's all about.
    Pamela

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    Default Re: Moral values?

    personally i think its up to you know what you feel comfortable doing and being around i'm sure every club is different since some strip clubs are more high end !!

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    Default Re: Moral values?

    Wow. Reviving a post from 02. I think that's a new record.

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    Default Re: Moral values?

    Todays Flying Dutchman Award


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