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Thread: A Houston Girl Speaks up

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    Featured Member Juliette_deSade's Avatar
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    Default A Houston Girl Speaks up

    Dood.

    All over this board I see Houston dissing. Talk about prostitutes and drug addicts. I have been consistent in this stance-there are clean clubs and clean dancers! Are any of you out there?

    The bad rap is TERRIBLE and frankly screws up our business.

    I have never had sex in the champagne room. The only extra I give back there is an absolutely no contact squirt show. But there is NO touching from the customer.

    I can get swanky. But all men WILL keep their hands off my kitty. Fulfilling the fantasy kills it and makes it a cheap reality.

    There are Houston girls who realize this. And we should band together as much as possible and speak up against prostitution and stay clean. Eventually less and less girls will whore themselves out. I mean less not all of course.

    Optimistic and realistic at the same time as not swallowing semen and my sorrows.

    Blech.
    Juliette de sade
    The Texas Pin-up Stripteuse!

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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    Hey Juliette De Sade,

    I began dancing in Houston 5 years ago and have been dancing there off and on since, and I agree with you whole-heartedly! There are certainly plenty of girls who are wiling to offer sexual favors in addition to dancing, but the majority ONLY dance. Personally, I've worked at The Men's Club, where I have NEVER witnessed any sexual favors of any kind whatsoever and at Treasures, which is notorious for them. At neither club did I ever perform anything other than a standard lap-dance. At Treasures I may have provided more contact than at TMC -- but never anything sexual! The fact that I'm a relatively "clean" dancer hasn't hindered my earnings, either -- I consistently out-earn the "dirty" girls,as well.
    My advice to anyone intersted in dancing in Houston: There is a hell of a lot of money to be made, with very low house fees and no scheduling. If you are willing to offer a medium-contact lap dance, are attractive, personable, and set personal boundaries, it should prove to be a lucrative experience!Don't let rumors scare you off -- You CAN make great dough w/out compromising your standards

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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    I have worked in Houston for 13 months from 4/01-5/02 and randomly several times a year when not on the road. I started at The Ritz and moved on to St. James.

    Houston has the fanciest clubs in the country and the biggest problem is there are not enough people with money able and willing to frequent them along with more dancers than the market can bear. Add to that equation the fact that most men want sex with girls they are attracted to and they are losing interest with spending money on dances and having their sexual desired unfulfilled.

    Most girls who bad mouth Houston clubs have never worked in them. Some girls will offer sexual favors to guys and some won't. Sure you will have to do good dances and by a good dance I mean some grinding and allowing the guy to touch you as long as he is not rough and doesn't try to put his fingers in you. If he is rough you merely push his hands away.

    Rumor seems to have it that Houston girls walk around from table to table asking guys if they want sex and that is bullshit. The girls who do more usually only offer that option to known customers and are selective of the guys they choose to get off. Some girls will give hand jobs and no more no matter how much money the guy has others will do girl on girl shows and others won't even ask guys for a dance.You can't stereotype the dancers. You can read on ASPD that sometimes guys can't get any extras in the clubs no matter how hard they try.

    So what is the real problem of the dissing? Many guys want pretty sexual playthings, as men like sexual variety. Many still love their wives or girlfriends but men like no strings attached sex from different women.But these same men don't want their girl or wife to have sex for money.

    On the other hand large numbers of the huge influx of dancers in the clubs today just want fast money and don't see dancing as a business. And in any service oriented business if the services provided are not what the customers want there will be no business. I constantly read posts here about girls wanting no contact with customers but complain when cities pass no contact laws. Even in a time and company showclub guys pay for talk and companionship from pretty dancers but also most are trying to negotiate an after club closing liason. Girls who are not comfortable with a contact dance where no sexual acts are involved really should not be dancing because that is the least a man is willing to part with cash for.That is evident by dances being harder to sell now. If we as dancers and men as customers can't meet each other halfway then we have no money exchange.

    Guys want sexual stimulation or release from encounters with us and are increasingly hesitant about "blowing" $10-$20 or more on dances which do neither.

    Houston merely provides a more liberal yet upscale environment where this can take place.

    Any girls who are involved in the Houston bashing who do not have the inner comfort zone to work in all types of clubs for a reasonable period of time and see for themselves how things are really should not be dancing.

    I am not trying to cause any friction but I am speaking reality. Dancers and customers for the most part are worlds apart and things can't continue much longer like this.

    For every dancer who never worked in Houston who is dissing it I hope you will stop and realize what men want. And for every man who sweats dancers to provide more services than he would want his wife to provide for money I hope you can try to realize that women don't want to have sex with every man who desires them.

    Both Juliette and Juliet made viable points. And I really believe that this business is not for every pretty face.

    Don't prejudice yourself to something you didn't have the guts to experience firsthand. All of us are not walking around in Houston saying "wanna fuck" instead of "wanna dance".

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    Featured Member aggieed's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    Well, who knows? Maybe there are several ladies reading this who will be able to give Houston a try when the Super Bowl is held there in a few months.
    I'm a simple man, making my way through the universe.

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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    Sure you will have to do good dances and by a good dance I mean some grinding and allowing the guy to touch you as long as he is not rough and doesn't try to put his fingers in you. If he is rough you merely push his hands away.


    Girls who are not comfortable with a contact dance where no sexual acts are involved really should not be dancing
    About the first part I quoted

    This is what I was talking about - it is conditioning. Conditioning to accept abuse.

    2nd part: I can't believe I am reading that :o :o :o :o
    Tina do you realize that you just said dancers not willing to prostitute themselves should not dance at all?

    I predict that what is slowly but surely coming is that ANTI air dancers will soon be complaining that they shouldn't be expected to perform sex acts to earn their living. Just like air dancers today complain about contact.

    What has happened is that too many dancers have chosen to take the fast easy money from contact and extras rather than put in the time and effort to earn their money from being intellectually entertaining as well visually.
    It takes no real effort or brain power to stroke some guys cock and get paid. Not true with air dancing. It takes a concerted effort. Also I have noticed this trend in dancers todays to take $200 for 3 hours of work doing contact or extras rather than to earn $1000 over 8 hours of chatting and airdances. Its like it is too much mental work or something :-/

    And now the customers are conditioned to this as well. Contact dancers on the whole have taught them to expect more for less money. You teach people how to treat you. And it only going to get worse before it gets better.

    I bet in 10/15 years dancers will be expected to do FS just to earn the cost of a dance. Because contact being commonplace has led to extras being fairly common and extras are leading to FS.

    All this contact is going to bite ya'll in the ass someday.


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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    I have to agree with Tigerlilly, except her numbers are off where Houston is concerned. Last time I was at the Gold Club, earnings potential was more like $200-$300 for a full shift socializing with customers but refusing 'extras'. Other girls who were more receptive to customer requests for 'extras' were doing land office Champagne Room business.

    Now, $200-$300 a night isn't terrible, and the Gold Club isn't the very best club that Houston has to offer, meaning that local dancers can still earn a reasonably decent living in Houston without providing 'extras'. But the fact remains that in order to earn really serious money in Houston (enough money to justify travelling there) you'll have to compete stroke for stroke with a significant percentage of local dancers delivering 'extras'.

    Because of the Houston club 'extras' rep, the odds of a dancer being busted in Houston is definitely higher than in most other cities. This is no biggy deal if you live locally, but it can be a huge pain in the butt if you are required to travel back to Houston 4 to 6 weeks after you were busted while dancing there in order to appear in court and try to prove your innocence. Houston's anti-dance club law never busts the club and always busts the dancers, with out-of-town and especially out-of-state dancers as their favorite targets.

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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    I did not say that dancers willing to not prostitute themselves should not dance. A contact dance does not involve sex. You must have misinterpreted my statement.I said a contact dance WITH NO sexual touching.

    I said that dancers who are uncomfortable with any type of contact should not dance. I said that some grinding and non sexual touching is the least most men will accept and still buy multiple dances.

    And what I said is that dancers need to understand what men want and that men should understand what we want and for us as dancers to be able to make money we must meet the customers halfway.

    What percentage of men do you think dislike air dances Tigerlilly? Damn near all of them.They feel air dances are a waste of money.

    What percentage of dancers don't want to be groped or manhandled? Most of us.

    What is a middle ground that the dancer can accept as well as the customer?

    I said that a good dance that meets a customer halfway is one where the customer can touch anywhere but the crotch and breasts and the dancer can use her knee. And I said that type of dance will work in Houston.

    I keep reading comments about how dancers don't want guys to touch them and read posts by guys who don't want to waste their money on no contact.

    Guys are not like us. And 95% of dancers cannot make $1000 in 8 hours chatting with customers. There are less clubs with that type of clientele and consistent earning potential nationwide than we have fingers and toes. And those clubs have seen business decrease by over 30%. $200-$300 a night is no gimmie either. Just because a dancer offers extras doesn't mean she will find a paying customer each day she works. Houston is a time and company environment just like the clubs you have worked in Tigerlilly. Some customers will pay for your time. And some will pay for a good dance as I described it. And others want more.

    I knew my comment would draw some flack from dancers who detest any type of contact. I am merely trying to get dancers AND customers to look at both sides of the coin.

    Tigerlilly, just because you have been able to work exclusively in the handful of clubs nationwide where affluent men who can only hob nob amongst those in their own income bracket frequent doesn't mean they enjoy dances that aren't stimulating to them. How many of these guys slip you their room key and offer you a chunk of money for "coming to their room"? And how many girls that worked alongside of you night after night obliged them?

    Guys NEVER were happy with a lack of contact. They just go with the flow. Times have changed and the been there and done that can be uttered by millions of men nowadays to where they are less interested in paying a lot of money for the company of a woman who could care less about anything but their money. The 1993 mentality of men who made the transition from Go Go's to gentlemen's clubs has changed.

    Allowing sexual activity in a club is too much, but what I said if you carefully reread my post is that the middle ground that many customers and dancers can accept is a dancer rubbing her knee on the groin and allowing controlled touching, controlled meaning no touching crotch or boobs.

    My point is that any dancer who is unwilling to do the above given the fact that the overwhelming majority of customers expect that should not dance. Any dancer should be versatile enough to dance nude, topless, bikini, no contact, or the type of contact I mentioned above. I DID NOT SAY HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH A CUSTOMER!!

    And I said that men should not go to a club looking for sex. A massage parlor or modeling studio would be their best bet. I said that a good dance should suffice for both dancer and customer.

    Times change and you are right Tigerlilly, guys will expect sex instead of a dance sooner and not later. Look at the difference in TV today and 20 years ago. When one is in a on the edge type business one must work it hard while it is fresh and find something else cutting edge and fresh to replace it when it starts losing steam.

    Tigerlilly, you were very fortunate to have worked in a prestigious club environment night after night, but don't forget that only 8% or less of our citizens earn 6 figures or more a year and it would humble you and bring you down to earth to work in a variety of middle of the road clubs around the country where the customers don't have an unlimited amount of dollars to part with on dancers.

    Melonie, you have danced in Houston so your feedback is justified. But dancers who condemn the town and the clubs there based on hearsay are no better than people who will not go in a certain part of town because they heard it was bad. See for yourself and then comment.

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    Senior Member shesupsidedown's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    I feel Tina is right ..the times have changed...when I started dancing in Baltimore 10 years ago the dances we were doing at that time were considered risque, but compared to todays standards those same dances would be your basic air dance! I could walk with $500-1000 because I did not have to compete with the absolute degrading conditions in the clubs today...and to be honest the only ones we have to blame for this change is the "dancers" who make the choice to basically fuck some stranger through his clothes for $20...Wouldn't it be more lucrative to get naked charge $1000 with the same happy ending and humiliation to yourselves? Im sorry I took this job as a dancer...and no matter how far down my income plunges I will continue to do just that, dance. I do not feel women who give lap dances all night to be under the same classification...sorry...they are the ones giving women like me who care about the entertainment aspect of this job a bad name...
    Tina you are also right... men want sex or some sort of contact ...but we the dancers have allowed this to get out of control and we can reign it back in by refusing to degrade ourselves by not giving them what they want ...if the men cant get extras/high contact dances.. trust me they will make do with what they can get...I know first hand...Its funny, I made more money when dancers did less and the more "dancers" do for a buck the less money we make over the years ..
    To sum up... their screwing us and some of us are so greedy we cant even see how were being scammed...WAKE UP...stop fucking yourselves over...
    I have not worked in Houston but I worked in Detroit and what I saw there was insane...full on sex in the back room, men who could and did touch anything, girls had to wear 2 to 3 layers of on their bottoms to make sure the men couldn't stick their fingers up them...Is this how we want men to behave when they come to our clubs? Is this how we want them to think of us? Personally I expect them to have manners and treat me with respect ...I am not a whore and will not be treated as one... ~Tori~
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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    Unfortunately for the future of exotic dancing in general, I have to agree with Tina that "once the Genie has been let out of the bottle" in regard to 'extras', customer touching, and various forms of sex in the VIP room, that "there's no way to get him back in". Customers today are simply never going to spend the amounts of money they used to in the '90's for air dances and light lap grinding. If a city introduces an ordinance today which actually does put a stop to 'extras', customer touching, and sex in the clubs, the customers will NOT be willing to continue spend big money for less. Instead, the customers will either stop going to the 'cleaned up' clubs in favor of unaffected clubs just beyond the city limits (where they can still find the 'extras' they're looking for) - or they'll come into the 'cleaned up' club for a drink or two, spend a few bucks in stage tips, and attempt to hook up with a dancer after hours outside the club to find those 'extras' in a private setting. Either way, 'clean' dancers wind up earning peanuts. This isn't idle speculation either, I've seen this happen with my own eyes when new ordinances have been passed in several cities.

    The only exception to this seems to be extremely upscale "show clubs" which offer enough in the way of eye candy and opulent club surroundings that they can attract an almost exclusively upscale business clientele. This allows girls lucky enough to make it past the audition and to be hired by these upscale "show clubs" to continue to earn decent money without heavy contact, customer touching, or 'extras'. Unfortunately, the hiring standards of these extremely upscale "show clubs" tend to be VERY selective, such that only the most spectacular 10%-20% of exotic dancers will ever have this option available. This in turn leaves 80%-90% of us dealing with the dilemma of providing 'extras' in other clubs, versus earning $40 on a friday night by refusing to provide 'extras' in other clubs while other dancers will, versus getting out of the dancing business!

    It this trend towards 'extras' hasn't hit your city yet, count yourself lucky! Odds are that if our economy doesn't turn around very quickly, such that layoffs and bankruptcys start declining and that new hiring and pay raises start appearing, that you'll be dealing with the 'extras' dilemma in your city soon enough.

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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    Ok,I have worked in no contact air dance clubs and clubs that have contact ,no touching boobs and crotch,but bikini light grind dances,of course I prefer the air dances now but back then the contact bikini bar was all I knew,I never saw anything going on besides a heavy grind,we had dancers that did barely any grinding to ones that did a 3 and a half minute grind the whole song,we all made money,there were indeed guys that didnt want dances from the girl who grinded the entire song and never left the lap and there were guys for the girls who did the least contact,I myself did very little grinding I found I kept guys inticed by tickleing and massaging their necks and chests and I made more money than the full grind girls,there are guys out there for everyone,believe it or not only maybe 30 percent of the clientele was into the girls who gave the grind the whole song,I think it all depends on your personality and looks,lets face it their are some girls hort or not thaat just arent money makers,I haave never encountered this extra problem anywere I have worked,I just really think it all boils down to the dancers,not a mater of whos doing extra because not all men want extras.

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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    Also, the only places I could see an extra thing being a problem is in dives w/dancers in the 5 and 6 range,I have worked in clubs that werent the top place in town and extras didnt go on ,if they did it was day shift w/no one around and the quality of the dancers were low,I mean I cant fathom hearing this extra stuff,unless its a nasty club were there are no managers around or there are private little rooms,I dont know,just never have been faced w/it ,even in the clubs that werent the best in town,theres just no place to go were noone would see whats happening.

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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    Well, Michelle, for a fact 'extras' DO go on in some of the most upscale clubs in Houston, San Francisco, Detroit and elsewhere. Some dancers are able to avoid the 'extras' competition in these clubs and still earn decent money, because like yourself they fall into the top 10%-20% of all dancers in the appearance department which helps their ability to make a private dance sale based solely on that stunning appearance. However, those of us who fall in the category of the "other 80%-90%" of dancers, are not so lucky. We're not talking about a dive club with dancers who are '5's and '6's either, we're talking classy clubs and dancers who are '8's and even '9's who are faced with the choice of delivering 'extras' or earning "peanuts".

    "Peanuts" is a relative term as well. As I said in reference to my last trip to Houston, "peanuts" fell in the range of $200-$300 a shift, which compared to average earnings potential in 'clean' clubs in some other cities might not seem all that bad. However, when "peanuts" falls in the range of $50-$100 on a Friday night, this is an untenable situation.

    I agree with your implied solution - simply get the hell out of these cities in favor of other clubs in other cities where the 'extras' factor isn't as deeply entrenched. However, I also understand that not all dancers are as free as we are to just hit the road in search of greener and 'cleaner' pastures so to speak to avoid the 'extras' problem. And not all dancers have a very likely chance of being hired in a differerent city's upscale low contact "show clubs', something which you also take for granted in your own case. If dancers who are '8's travel to a differerent city, but discover that they can't get past the audition at the upscale low contact 'show clubs', this leaves them essentially in the same earnings potential situation as if they had continued to work in 'extras' clubs close to home - working in high contact second tier clubs competing with girls offering high contact and customers who expect high contact.

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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    I agree blatant extras in private rooms usually occurs in clubs considered to be "dives" although it is a wrong assumption that it only goes on there and by women not attractive enough to work in an upscale enviroment ...I have witnessed plenty of dancers who are "10's" to be throwing out extras....its a matter of self esteem!
    Yes, some girls do not have to grind the entire 3 min...but I find it disgusting enough to have to grind at all...personally, the one time I experienced it I was horrified and had trouble sleeping for a week....does that mean I should get out of the business? Massaging, touching, grinding, feeling some guys woody through his jeans... was not and is not part of my job description...
    I work in a club now where I dance on a stage with NO private dances whatsoever...in fact the entire D.C. area is like that...and I make fine money and always have...I know plenty of states where it is clean...Sure girls in Detroit/Houston might make $600/1000 a night...but thats when you have to weigh your priorities...is it more important to keep your dignity and mental sanity...or sell it away for an extra couple hundred a night?
    ~Tori~
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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    Well, that's the key question Tori. Does the "club culture" in a particular city result in $1,000 a night doing extras versus $500 dancing 'clean', or does it result in $1,000 a night doing extras versus $50-$100 dancing 'clean'. If it's the latter, then a 'clean' dancer simply can no longer make a decent living by dancing in that city.

    When that happens, the dancer basically has three choices
    #1 - start competing stroke for stroke in the "extras" department in order to restore her income levels
    #2 - pack up and move to a differerent city where it is possible to earn $500 a night dancing 'clean'
    #3 - quit dancing and take a "straight job" which will pay about the same as her $50-$100 a day earnings potential dancing 'clean', but with some benefits, and without the social stigma, nightly degradation, or risk of being busted.

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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    True, I could take a "straight" job that might pay as much as much as dancing but this is why I stay:

    1) I choose my clubs wisely...I never work in clubs where extras are taking place so I dont have to worry about being busted or being associated with the girls working there...

    2)Flexible schedule!! What other job in the world allows so much freedom...I travel a lot these days and plan on more..."normal" jobs expect you you to punch a clock and only give you a week a year to go out and enjoy your life...

    3)Short amount of time worked for a great amount of money...no matter how you look at it, if you were earning the same salary at a "normal" job the hours of your life you put in to that "normal" job would be much greater than dancing...probabally 40 vs. 20....

    I do not make as much money as the girls who work in the lap dance clubs grinding and doing extras but I have also adjusted my lifestyle accordingly...I do not spend money on excessive shopping, fancy cars, or useless items I dont need....I save my money now or if I do spend it I travel and see the world...This will only last so long so I take advantage of it without getting greedy and doing lasting damage to myself and others...You know this industry used to have class to it...remember burlesque? Stripping has always carried a stigma for the dancers mostly from stereotypes that were largely exaggerated until now... lets not give them more of a reason....
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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    Because some dancers offer hj's, bj's and full service in a club does not mean they are making money.

    Since this post is about Houston clubs I will tell you from experience and from other dancers feedback that everyone does not make money every day. There are a lot of dancers there and in all Texas clubs east of the dry line and also a lot of clubs per capita.

    There are not enough paying customers each day to allow every dancer to make $200 plus after tip outs. As several dancer friends told me the last time I was there, some days you'll make money and some you won't and you have to accept that. That is a direct quote. How can each girl make positive figures when oftentimes there are as many or more dancers as customers? It was like that when I worked in Memphis too. And my fiancee' told me that when he was in Phoenix several weeks ago a dancer at a top club there told him 40 girls were working day shift and she only made $23, so she was working night shift hoping to make up for it and night shift had as many girls as customers.

    A 5 day week under those conditions looks like thismy 5 days in Houston)
    T-$28- 54 girls
    W-$393-55 girls
    F-$3 (in 9 hours)-40 girls day shift
    S-$151-38 girls
    SN-$252- 9 girls day shift- made off of 2 customers

    Next week

    M-$442-35 girls (made this off of 2 guys)
    W-$213-50girls (only had $60 until 1AM when a regular walked in and spent $160 on a tab)
    T-$177-80 girls-made off of 2 customers
    F-day-$277- 16 dances from 2 customers
    SN-$262- made off 2 customers

    I would be happy off the 2nd weeks earnings since I had no wash out days but that will never happen regularly.

    Do you see how it goes there? Average customer spending is high once you get a customer but you don't stay busy there and sometimes with all the competition you can't sell anyone or there are not enough guys with $100 plus to spend in the club.

    Given what I have illustrated to you can you see how girls would get desparate. And guys know that and dangle the carrot in their faces for sexual favors. Extras were bred out of desperation.90% of guys want them but settle for less when not available.

    A dancer might have worked 3 days in a row and made under $100 each day, and the previous 2 weeks only made $600 a week in 5 days then Mr. Big Spender comes in and wants to pay $1000 for full service for him and his friend.She is hard pressed to turn it down.

    Conversely some girls are so desperate that they will give a bj for the price of 2 dances. When business is good they wouldn't even consider sexual acts.

    A club I was recently booked at in Montana booked 2 Milwaukee ghetto girls the same week I was there and these girls are straight up niggers.They never worked this club before and are used to booking in clubs where they can line up $100 dates. These girls literally would try to steal my customers away from me and workout deals so that a guy who said he would buy from me would choose them instead. Then when the manager was called at home and confronted about them they had the nerve to want to fight me until they were sent home. They didn't have the looks to work in a club where lining up dates was not allowed and being ghetto were uncomfortable with white people and jealous of me because I am black and can compete fairly evenly with white dancers. Self esteem or lack of it has a lot to do with feeling unworthy of better

    It's all about money. Guys always want more and there will always be someone out there willing to give it to them in all price ranges.

    That is why I said that a middle ground dance that most men will probably accept is a contact one with monitored touching. Many clubs I have booked at have a bouncer or DJ who watches for any inappropriate grabbiness. Many clubs do not and that is what has caused things to get out of hand.Plus many clubs don't want to offer less than the competition and if the competition has above average looking dancers and extras available and your club doesn't you won't be in business very long.That is the case in Houston.

    And the ironic thing about Houston is that most of the smaller clubs, the nude ones, and the black ones have no sexual activity going on. The big guns who are in competition with each other tolerate the extras.

    A pretty girl with a good personality can work in Houston and probably outearn many desperate girls who put out by just doing good dances and being a good conversationalist. She still will have off and on nights due to the competition and fluctuation of
    business.

    The key to mimimizing your chance of being involved in a club bust is being tight with the managers and tipping them.Texas is still governed by God fearing people and "good ole' boys" but it is changing little by little due to the strong racial diversity there and influx of people from other states.

    Payoffs are involved between many large clubs and the police/Harris County Sheriffs dept. Clubs know that there is not enough money in the budget to make policing clubs and SOB's regularly a priority, and the cops will tell the clubs that we have to "take in a few girls from time to time to make it look like we are on our job". And the girls who are in with management many times know when this will happen and don't work during those times.

    Even though I travel to dance now more than I dance in Houston, clubs are hit and miss everywhere I go. But guys are still the same and so are the dancers. Some girls will offer more just like some guys expect more. A club that has more pretty girls in it can get away with less contact than one with skanks. But the only reason guys go to clubs with skanky dancers working in them is to get a cheap date lined up or action in a dark corner.

    But hopefully all you dancers realize that men want stimulation for their dollars and just the right amount will keep us employed, but too much will force us to work on our backs or quit.

    This is not a Houston issue but an issue for the industry as a whole to deal with. :-/

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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    Tina, your statements are absolutely true.

    My earnings are very rarely over $500 these days. If I did extras it WOULD be so much more. I'm feeling that frustration too. I have to work so much longer and harder. But I really would f***ing hate to get bitten in the ass later because I insist on keeping my pride. It's an ugly position and someday the girls who are skilled and clean will be forced to either stoop like crazy or leave the business.


    The Texas Pin-up Stripteuse!

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    On the bright side, there are many girls like me.
    The Texas Pin-up Stripteuse!

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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    LIsten Girls: There is absolutely no middle ground in this industry, as it is simply a microcosm of capitalistic society. Clubs should and will be either strictly no-contact, or a full-contact/extra frenzy. The "middle ground" that Tina advocated is simply untenable due to the capitalistic impulse in dancers: Some will inevitable say to themselves, "Well, the club doesn't allow x, but if do it, I'll earn more $$". Of course, said dancer does benefit --in the short-run -- but, over time, other girls will have to compete with the new level of contact, thereby shifting demand for higher contact and extras to a higher level.
    Thus, I say that clubs need to be either a)strict no-contact clubs, which promptly terminate girls who don't abide by rules, or b)full-contact/extra clubs where anything goes. Frankly, I believe strip-clubs should be simply that : Strip-clubs, where guys go to look at beautiful, naked girls, enjoy some drinks and pleasant convo. I support police busts in this respect, in order to ensure the perpetuity of show-club business.
    However, I realize my position may be unpopular -- Girls need to earn money somehow, and thos ethat cannot compete in show-clubs will WANT contact clubs in order to earn a living. Unfortunately, this breeds rampant prostitution in many cases,as well. I don't believe girls who have to provide heavy contact/extras in order to earn a living should classify themselves as "strippers" -- they're not, they're prostitutes. This is not a value judgement: I respect everyone's right to do with their bodies as they wish -- I just expect them to acknowledge they're hookers.
    I have worked contact clubs in the past, including Treasures, as I've mentioned. Earnings at contact clubs always pale in comparison to what can be had in places like NYC where only the truly beautiful, capable girls who are in demand in the business work! It's a simple fact: Guys will pay for low-contact dances and convo. with 9's and 10's. It's a fantasy --A "7" simply isn't "fantasy" material, so she has to offer "reality", as well. It's no longer entertainment at that point.
    I realize we all differ in opinion and I do not mean to offend anyone> I've worked everywhere from blue-colar contact joints to the top,no-contact clubs in the USA. For the sake of our industry, no, or low-contact should be the standard. The only feasible alternative is to have a two-tier system of clubs that offer gorgeous, no-contact show-girls on the one hand, and high contact/extras on teh other hand. Guys will not be content with "middle-of-the-road", and avaricious dancers won't be, either.

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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    Tina you have to be kidding!!! I work in NY where there is no contact and no grinding and I make alot of money. I dont need to do this to make money. I use my brains and personality to enteratin the customers and they do come back. Saying you have to grind someone to make money is disgusting.

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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    I agree with alot of what you are saying juliete,as I am 9-10 and have worked most of the same clubs you have and prefer the no contact as well,but there are middle of the road clubs out there that offer some contact with no extras whatsoever,I have worked in bikini bars like this and there are clubs out there like mons venus were they have mostly 9-10 working were no extras go on ,but just the mere contact nude dance,which some would consider extra,asI would never do nude ,even at no contact,I would rather do lite contact then nude,I agree that we are a fantacy and when you can touch there goes the fantasy,but there are clubs for every man and every dancer,the no contact clubs I worked in would indeed fire you for even touching a guys knee and then the dirty nude lap dance clubs would fire a girl for doing more than the simple grind too,so what does all of this mean?

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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    What Iam trying to say here ,is there are no contact clubs out ther ethat are just that,mild contact,and nude lap dance,that are just that,no extras involved,it all depends on managment and the dancers and a different kind of clientele you will find in all but the men who are going to want the most extras are the ones that frequent the contact clubs,though there are alot just happy with the contact they are permited,as long as the dancers keep it at that.

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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    Clubs should and will be either strictly no-contact, or a full-contact/extra frenzy. The "middle ground" that Tina advocated is simply untenable due to the capitalistic impulse in dancers
    What you are describing is exactly the same as the club system which has evolved in Europe, and which I agree with you is the probable direction in which US clubs are headed as well. In Europe, you have a small percentage of clubs which are no contact "show" clubs, and which only hire the best of the best looking dancers, usually also requiring that these dancers/hostesses have a 'mainstream' dance training background. In Europe you then have a large percentage of "sex" clubs where, thanks to Europe's more liberal views on sex and prostitution, everything is on the menu from live sex shows on stage to sex for sale by the "dancers" who work in these clubs. With the exception of the UK (which does not permit sex clubs either officially or unoffficially) there is no middle ground. While I agree that US clubs are slowly headed in this direction, I disagree completely that this is a good move.

    I work in NY where there is no contact and no grinding and I make alot of money. I dont need to do this to make money. I use my brains and personality to enteratin the customers and they do come back. Saying you have to grind someone to make money is disgusting. .....

    I am 9-10 and have worked most of the same clubs you have and prefer the no contact as well,but there are middle of the road clubs out there that offer some contact with no extras whatsoever,I have worked in bikini bars like this and there are clubs out there like mons venus were they have mostly 9-10 working were no extras go on ,but just the mere contact nude dance,which some would consider extra,asI would never do nude ,even at no contact,I would rather do lite contact then nude,I agree that we are a fantacy and when you can touch there goes the fantasy,but there are clubs for every man and every dancer
    Allow me to offer a somewhat different opinion on behalf of dancers like Tina and myself who are not '9's and '10's as you are, and who do not have the luxury of being easily hired by no contact "show clubs" as you do. Are you saying that us dancers who are merely '8's and '7's should simply quit dancing altogether as 'middle of the road' clubs disappear, or that we should become full-blown prostitutes, or that you really don't care as long as we don't cause a change in upscale "show club" customer contact expectations and spending habits which would affect you ?

    Sorry for the bluntness, and I really don't intend to start a "class war" among '9' and '10' "show club" dancers versus the rest of us. But if you remove your underlying assumptions that every girl has the option of walking into an upscale no-contact "show club" and being hired on the spot in the same way that you can from your comments, it certainly sounds like that's what you're saying. Please understand that I'm taking the role of 'devil's advocate' here - this is not meant as a personal attack !

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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    I've only been to Houston a couple of times in my life but I did want to address JulieT's statements. Julie stated that, "There is absolutely no middle ground in this industry, as it is simply a microcosm of capitalistic society." Well, let's look another type of entertainment in this capitalistic society we live in, that has seen tremendous changes: Hollywood.

    Back in the 30's and 40's, movie theaters were the primary source of entertainment for most Americans. Families packed into neighborhood theaters to see the latest films made in what they now call the "golden age of Hollywood".

    Then along came television. Everyone predicted that TV would be the end of Hollywood film making. After all, who would travel to a theater and pay money for a show, when shows were beamed into your home for free? But Hollywood adapted and survived.

    Later came Cable TV, VCRs, DVDs and now Satellite TV. Each new innovation has brought people out to predict the end of the film industry. However, the industry has continued to prosper.

    Has the film industry changed? Yes and no. Most films now days are made for young men. This means more graphic violence and sex on the screen than our grandparents would ever imagine. However, the number one studio during the big summer movie season was Disney and it's family friendly movies. Movie studios can still be profitable by entertaining families.

    Strip clubs face competition for the sexually oriented entertainment dollar. Magazines, DVDs, escorts, massage palors, the internet, all compete for the customer's money. Then in some areas the political climate makes business difficult as well. Will clubs change? Yes. Will they still be around and prosperous? As long as there are men, there will be strip clubs.

    Lastly, about the "two-tier system of clubs" that you see as, "The only feasible alternative..". I just don't see it. There just are not that many men that can afford to, "...pay for low-contact dances and convo. with 9's and 10's." in the high-end clubs you desciribe. According to your theory, any man that couldn't afford the high-end club would resort to the low end, whore-house pretending to be a strip club. But what about the middle-aged, middle to upper-middle income guy that can't afford the high-end club but still wants some entertainment? While some would no doubt patronize the low-end clubs you describe, in my opinion, most would be too afraid to. If a guy gets caught in a strip club, he might be embarrassed at work, have some explaining to do at home and maybe sleep on the couch a few nights. If a guy gets caught in some sleazy club where there is a lot of illegal extras going on, the consequences are likely to be much more severe. A lot of these guys would not be comfortable at, and would be afraid to risk, going to the low end clubs you describe. I think there is and will continue to be a place for the middle of the road club and the middle of the road dancer Tina describes.

    Not a flame, just my thoughts
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

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    Default Re: A Houston Girl Speaks up

    According to your theory, any man that couldn't afford the high-end club would resort to the low end, whore-house pretending to be a strip club. But what about the middle-aged, middle to upper-middle income guy that can't afford the high-end club but still wants some entertainment? While some would no doubt patronize the low-end clubs you describe, in my opinion, most would be too afraid to. If a guy gets caught in a strip club, he might be embarrassed at work, have some explaining to do at home and maybe sleep on the couch a few nights. If a guy gets caught in some sleazy club where there is a lot of illegal extras going on, the consequences are likely to be much more severe. A lot of these guys would not be comfortable at, and would be afraid to risk, going to the low end clubs you describe. I think there is and will continue to be a place for the middle of the road club and the middle of the road dancer Tina describes.
    I agree that there would remain a certain base of club customers who will not pay/cannot afford the premium prices at upscale "show clubs", and who also do not want/are fearful of patronizing downscale high contact clubs. This does leave a potential customer base for "middle of the road" clubs. However, the unavoidable supply and demand equation then takes over. If the big money customers are going to the upscale "show clubs" or to the high contact clubs, what this typically leaves for "middle of the road" club customers are blue collar guys/local guys whose entire budget for a night in the "middle of the road" club is $50 ! These are guys who will come in, have a couple of drinks, tip $10-$20 at the stage/bar, and who will then perhaps buy one or two private dances.

    From the business side, this leaves the club with barely enough income from cover, drinks and private dance splits to pay the mortgage and utility bills. From the dancer's side, this leaves dancers with a $200 or less per night earnings potential (sometimes MUCH less). This then starts a downhill snowball where the club spends nothing on promotion or repairs or "political grease", and the dancers who have the greatest potential to earn better money in other clubs (typically the best looking dancers) then leave for greener pastures. End result even fewer customers come in, club begins to lose money and dancers earning potential falls even further. At this point, even if an occasional middle aged customer comes in prepared to spend big money on the "right girl", most of the "right girls" are no longer working there!

    The snowball effect either ends in the club closing, the introduction of extras to get the club's and dancers' earnings levels back to something tenable, or the club continuing to operate in the 'Twilight Zone' with a bunch of girls who are '5's and '6's and '7's who are willing to continue dancing for average earnings levels of $100 or less per night (primarily because they can't get hired in either the show clubs or the high contact clubs and have no other options). I agree with you that this sort of Twilight Zone operation can probably continue indefinitely providing dancers are still willing to work in "middle of the road" clubs for the same sort of weekly paycheck that they could earn at a "straight job", however this Twilight Zone existance is NOT going to provide the ability for the club or dancers' situation to improve.

    Going back to your examples of theatres, exactly the same thing happened with "neighborhood" movie theatres and films which appealed to a "middle of the road" audience. Theatres either converged into a high volume upscale business i.e. mall movieplex, showing "blockbusters" which command premium ticket prices (analogous to expensive private dances from '9's and '10's at upscale "show clubs")- or, for a while, survived showing XXX films (analogous to high contact / 'extras'). However, the vast majority of "middle of the road" neighborhood theatres are gone forever. And the only reason there are still a few "middle of the road" films being made is that they are financially supported by such organizations as Sundance/government grants and do not have to turn a profit on their own merit. Similarly the continued existance of a few "art house" theatres showing these "middle of the road" films is also usually due to subsidies from local communities/colleges/government grants, such that they don't have to turn a profit on their own merits either. Unfortunately, there is no such financial support available to "middle of the road" dance clubs or the dancers that have to work in them.

    I also agree with you that, at some point, the high contact 'extras' clubs will begin to suffer the same fate as the XXX theatres unless governments come out and legalize operation of these clubs in the USA as they have in Europe. What's very likely to happen will be analogous to the XXX theatres being replaced with XXX at home either via PPV cable or XXX video rental. This effect can already be seen with today's highly successful escort business, and with "one on one private sessions" a la . Both of these options accomplish the same thing that home XXX availability did, they remove the risk that a customer (or his car) will be seen and recognized in a "sleazy" public setting and make the same thing available in a relatively safe and secure private setting.

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