do you think he should ban them even though it religion purpouses? sorry i cant spell![]()
hell no!
maybe
yes
undecided
do you think he should ban them even though it religion purpouses? sorry i cant spell![]()
I don't think they should be banned at all. People should be allowed to express their religion as they see fit, as long as it does not hurt others. True, there is international sensitivity towards all things Islamic at the moment, but much of it is fueled by ignorance and confused meanings.
Yes, there are terrorists who happened to be Islamic. These particular people co-opted a religion to suit their own murderous ideals, and their points of view are not shared by the majority. Therefore, religious tenets of Islam, including a woman's headscarf, should certainly not be viewed as threats to national security.
Perhaps the reason for the proposed ban is not the one I thought it was, in which case, the above arguement might not hold water. But let the girls wear what they want. The students likely have their minds on more important things.
Sigh....misdirected attention from politicians again...
just wondering where you are talking about? england? they dont have a president! are you meaning ban them in the middle east at school or in the west? if you mean in the west, then no, because they are an expression of religious belief and are not oppressed by the british/us/or european govt's...in the middle east, they should be banned until they can get it thru the men's heads there that women are not evil and deserve respect...hope that makes sense
who ebver the guy that wants to ban them its on cnn alot
hmmm..dunno i havent seen it...is it Tony Blair?




Ther was a case in florida,were an islamic women wouldnt take her veil off for her picture to be taken,so in that case they wouldnt take it and she tried to sue.I believe if you live in america,then there should be provisions.She should have been made to take it off for the photo,I agree with the dmv on that,she has to remember she is in our country know and thats the way it is.Same for us in other countries regarding different things but we still have to abide by the rules of the country.




I forgot to add,it was for a florida drivers lisence photo.
i heard about that...she lost...because a driver's license is a privlege (sp?) and for identification purposes..she didnt have a leg to stand on...
Michele~
The OP's question brought to mind that same incident. Damned if I can remember her name though. Melonie probably knows it.
As Michele and Alexis mentioned, a driver's licence is a priviledge. Attending public school in America is not only a right but it is also an obligation. For the school systems to demand that we hand over our children from the ages of 7-16 on the condition that family, culture and religion be checked at the door is a truly frightening thought. The Orwellian possibilities causes this Libertarian's heart to shudder.
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche
No. That item of clothing is symbolic in religion.
If you talk to a Muslim woman she will tell you all that the scarf represents and also its different purposes. Some of it is pretty interesting.
Even though many wars have been fought in the name of "worshiping"- I find it rare that is the actual intent or goal. Its about the need for power and control, not about God or worship.




Actally,it probably is about relligion.Removing the ten comandments statue comes to mind,not being able to say one nation under god during the pledge of alligience in some states and know talk of taking one nation under god off our money,I know I will probably get flamed but god forbid offending the atheists.




Iam sorry,I meant in god we trust off our money.I just woke up from a nap.
as far as school goes here in america, i can see both sides...on the one hand you have personal freedom of expression, on the other separation from church and state and since school is required and run by the government it would make sense to keep all religious things out and just focus on education...
I think it is France that is doing this and it isn't just the Islamic head scarves but all forms of religious headwear (yamulkas and Sikh turbans, etc...). I'll have to go hunt down the info now.
And for me, no, I don't agree that they should be banned.
Currently dancing at the Men's Club of Reno, NV
under the name of Veronica! I am a 2007 calendar girl for MCR, so message me if you want a calendar!
here's the link on cnn: http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe...ves/index.html
Currently dancing at the Men's Club of Reno, NV
under the name of Veronica! I am a 2007 calendar girl for MCR, so message me if you want a calendar!
Shall we then forbid the Mormon underthings? For they are religious symbols that Mormons of a certain age are required to wear at all times. Or should we simply mandate that no American is allowed to freely abide by visible mandates of their religion in publicly owned places?Originally Posted by alexislv link=board=1;threadid=5401;start=msg58042#msg58042 date=1072136219
Edited to add: For the record, I am debating (disagreeing) but it isn't personal. I'm in my element during political debates.
As for myself, an avowed Pagan, I cannot endorse the belief that we can announce when it is and is not legal to adhere to one's religion. That is a slippery slope that I would warn people away from most strenuously. I also fail to see how a head scarf, or even a hajib, would interfere with the education process. If the presence of a scarf means that the teacher cannot retain the attention of his/her students, then I warrant it isn't the fault of the scarf.
As a side note that is relevant, it always rather disappoints me when the land of diversity starts propounding we homogynize public spaces. The notion is patronizing at it's very core, as if to say that our own beliefs are so weak that the merest hint that not all see things as we do will cause us to come undone.
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche
i dont know what mormon underthings are...there is a difference between a public place and a place run by the government...no one is saying that it is bad to express religion..the reason there is separation from church and state is to allow everyone the freedom to choose what religion they want and not be required to do what the government says...it is a protection for everyone from too much government influence....if no one has religious symbols, etc in the school then no one can be targeted for their beliefs...
Lillith...no worries...debate is good!![]()
Exactly Lilith!Originally Posted by Lilith link=board=1;threadid=5401;start=msg58054#msg58054 date=1072137202
I think the people who want these scarfs banned just want to make themselves feel safer/better/right...... whatever.
Do we ban wearing a cross pendant on necklaces in public school? Can a child not attend school in her Easter dress? What about Christmas celebrations in schools? No more Elf and Rudolf coloring pages. How about tv commercials? this week- its Xmas ads everywhere.....
Telling some child she can't honor her religon with clothing -that's screwed. :'(
A shirt-and-bloomer set of underwear that Mormons of a certain age are required to wear to symbolize their modesty and devotion to their God (or devotion to their religion, for the cynics out there). It has the same purpose as a hajib or yarmulke or head scarf... it merely isn't visible.Originally Posted by alexislv link=board=1;threadid=5401;start=msg58057#msg58057 date=1072137688
But many relevant government-run places being referred to are public places. They are there for the benefit of all... not just the atheists.there is a difference between a public place and a place run by the government... (snip)
Government influence to mandate government influence sounds like a crap shoot at best, illogical and impossible to achieve at worst.it is a protection for everyone from too much government influence...(snip)
This sounds like a cop-out on the part of the school system to me. Limiting the freedom of otherwise law- and rule abiding citizens so they don't have to worry about the bullies is not the proper method for handling bullies. I would like to remind all and sundry that during WW2, when America interned all Japanese-Americans into prison camps, they claimed that it was for the safety of the Japanese-Americans..if no one has religious symbols, etc in the school then no one can be targeted for their beliefs...
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche
uh... NOOOOOOOOO! There is so much misconception about women in Islam and thier hijabs (headscarves). People think that it is oppression of women, but actually most women that I know find it to be quite liberating, freeing them from ogling eyes and being judged by their looks. Islam also requests that women dress modestly, revealing nothing but their feet, hands, and face... what's next, banning this too? Or banning crucifixes? NO NO NO NO NO!
Pies- para qué los quiero, Si tengo alas para volar?... Feet what do I want them for, If I have wings to fly? - Frida Kahlo
I have only heard of the court house with the 10 commandments thing and like the person who started this thread was in school. I havent heard of any other place that this was an issue...and no its not a cop-out for the schools...there are alot of people that are targeting for their beliefs..not just muslims, but the jewish, pagans, etc. When they started school uniforms as a way to make it impossible for people to flash their colors (gangs) it did work...it just seems that if you are gonna go to a public school then you have to abide by the rules that they have and if it infringes on your personal beliefs then a private school or home schooling would probably be better because you cant please everyone all the time, there is always going to be someone that doesnt agree and feels that what someone else expresses infriges on their beliefs...where does it stop? ...i think that the schools have gotten so violent that the gov't is trying to keep it a place for an education not a place for teachers/administrators to be cops or wardens...





I didn't vote but I don't think the scarfs should be banned unless it totally covered the face. I don't think anyone's face should be covered in school, (or in the bank, or in the strip club...) That's my opinion strictly from a safety standpoint.





Hi just wanted to add to this topic...Originally Posted by Veronika link=board=1;threadid=5401;start=msg58048#msg58048 date=1072136651
Yes Veronica you are right this isn't happening here in England but in France. And yes the ban isn't on head scarves alone but with all religious form's of head wear and symbols......
This ban only applies to public school's. This is the way it has alway's been in school's in france, the only difference now is that the goverment has decided to make the ban legal.
The reason for the goverment's decision is bcos in france many ppl have been abused and beaten for their religious belief's and they want to keep this out of the school's..... alexis is right it's a form of protection.
Seraya.





Seraya, I think that makes alot more sense. Particularly if people have been abused as a result of their religion it sounds like an appropriate way to help protect these children.
My own opinion above was based on growing up in the wake of rising "gang violence" in school, this was back when NFL gear was banned, wearing certain colors or logos, watch caps etc. Shoot, you're not even allowed to wear sunglasses in the banks anymore.
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