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Thread: Rumor Control: Head Scarves

  1. #1
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Rumor Control: Head Scarves

    The ban on ostentatious religious symbols is happening in France.


    Main Entry: os·ten·ta·tious
    Pronunciation: -sh&s
    Function: adjective
    Date: 1673
    : marked by or fond of conspicuous or vainglorious and sometimes pretentious display

    It is not a ban on ALL religious symbols. Such things as pendants depicting crucification, crosses, the Star of David, the crescent moon, as well the Hand of Fatimah are still allowed. Under the law, a christian boy dressed as a monk would be sent home, as well the scarf for the islamic girl.

    France has a history where Jews were forced to wear symbols marking their religion and they were beaten and killed for it. This is NOT the reason, but it is one of the things making the argument.

    The main reason, is that France is now discovering, that through their liberal immigration policy's - their culture is being overwelmed by the culture (and it's problems) of the north african and middle eastern immigrants.

    French women complain about being harrassed by young muslim men for wearing mini-skirts. And the rate of rape of french women by muslim men has been increasing with some pretty horrific accounts. Google for "rape france islam." In addition, women are finding themselves with acid thrown at them and other uncivilized behavior typical of that part of the world.

    Jewish people have been finding their synagogues burned, and attacks upon them merely for their faith is increasing. Google for "france jew attacks islam" for more information about this.

    In short, France is realizing that they have let the barbarians in.

    What might not be realized here is this is not a case of the west against Islam, but that Islam is against the west. In the middle east they have been quite adamant in the streets spitting on western ideals and burning flags and cheering when strikes are made against us, killing and maiming the "infidels" or "crusaders." The Imams in many (but not all) mosques strike out at us calling the west, and the US in particular "The Great Satan" leading good people into a life of evil.

    That is right - they consider us godless, morally bankrupt, and down right evil in the west. We are the victims, not they. Imagine how they feel about us in this particular sub-culture?

    This law is meant as an integration check - that everyone needs to play fair regardless of religion and moral belief. It is a law that says, in interacting with France in the public, you will integrate with France.

    They are not asking for people to give up their religion, they are asking people to be tolerant of others, and one way of doing so is to not so seperate one's self from others.

    Hope this helps.

  2. #2
    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re:Rumor Control: Head Scarves

    "We have to destroy liberty to save it"...Promote tolerance by being intollerant...Sounds like we had to destroy the village to save it.

    I think we should put a head scarf on the statue of liberty just to piss them off.

  3. #3
    Featured Member Veronika's Avatar
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    Default Re:Rumor Control: Head Scarves

    And was it really necessary to define "ostentatious"? I personally found that a bit insulting. Anyway, yes, it isn't just the headscarves but any large display of religion: yarmulkes, large xian crosses, large Stars of David, the turbans worn by Sikh men, etc. This also only applies to public schools and hospitals. That means that in every day life, French citizens will still see signs of a person's religion in the form of clothing and jewelry outside of those public institutions.

    The argument seems to boil down to taking the displays of religion away in order to see the person as a French citizen first and a member of any religious group second thus reinforcing a sense of nationalism. I personally don't agree as I see it as an infringement of the freedom of religion French citizens have by right (yes, really).

    BTW, nice name Deogol; did you get it from "Beowulf"?
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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Rumor Control: Head Scarves

    What this is REALLY about is an attempt to silence a conservative French political opposition movement, which is outraged by Chirac policies, which seeks to crack down on French immigration policies and certain segments of the French population (notably arab), which tends to think along the same lines as George Bush, and which garnered over 20% of the vote in a recent French election to the surprise and disgust of mainstream French politicians.

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    Default Re:Rumor Control: Head Scarves

    Quote Originally Posted by montythegeek link=board=1;threadid=5408;start=msg58154#msg58154 date=1072157034
    I think we should put a head scarf on the statue of liberty just to piss them off.
    can u imagine i think that would piss bush off more than any one else

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    Featured Member Veronika's Avatar
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    Default Re:Rumor Control: Head Scarves

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie link=board=1;threadid=5408;start=msg58202#msg58202 date=1072175859
    What this is REALLY about is an attempt to silence a conservative French political opposition movement, which is outraged by Chirac policies, which seeks to crack down on French immigration policies and certain segments of the French population (notably arab), which tends to think along the same lines as George Bush, and which garnered over 20% of the vote in a recent French election to the surprise and disgust of mainstream French politicians.
    So this is the compromise? Am I reading that correctly? Wow, I only just started to read into this yesterday and I found it disturbing that something like this would even come up.
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    Default Re:Rumor Control: Head Scarves

    Deogol,

    What I find interesting about your post, is that France has always had a large history of anti semitism [hatred of jew's] even before the Nazis invaded with in it's culture historically.

    I also find it an interesting fact that most of the 9/11 hijackers became radicalized, not when they where home in the middle east, but by the Mosques in Europe while they were going to school there.

    My only concern seems to be that your post is leaning strongly towards encourageing hatred and intolerence of Islam, therefore I am very weary of it, and encourage others to be also. But that's just my humble opinion.


  8. #8
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re:Rumor Control: Head Scarves

    Quote Originally Posted by madgrad link=board=1;threadid=5408;start=msg58556#msg58556 date=1072255244
    Deogol,

    What I find interesting about your post, is that France has always had a large history of anti semitism [hatred of jew's] even before the Nazis invaded with in it's culture historically.
    I agree. I focussed on the Nazi era as the foremost recognizable example.

    If I remember my history correctly, it was this anti-semitism that caused many of the Jewish faith to go into banking, as they could not spend their money purchasing lands and real property (middle ages.) Then they were hated by those who required their assistance in the form of loans or favoritism.

    I shake my head.

    Quote Originally Posted by madgrad link=board=1;threadid=5408;start=msg58556#msg58556 date=1072255244
    I also find it an interesting fact that most of the 9/11 hijackers became radicalized, not when they where home in the middle east, but by the Mosques in Europe while they were going to school there.
    It is interesting. Do you agree with me that "so called poverty" is not the basis of hatred for the west - like so many (towards the left) would like to say?

    Quote Originally Posted by madgrad link=board=1;threadid=5408;start=msg58556#msg58556 date=1072255244
    My only concern seems to be that your post is leaning strongly towards encourageing hatred and intolerence of Islam, therefore I am very weary of it, and encourage others to be also. But that's just my humble opinion.
    I am sure it reads that way because it so focussed on the bad things that came with the immigrants.

    I do believe there are millions in the Islamic faith that hate the West/United States and what we stand for simply because their religious leaders say so; Or because they just simply hate us "as the thing to do."

    It is obvious over the last twenty years of embassy hostage taking, embassy bombings, barracks bombings, ship bombings, aircraft hi-jackings, murders/beheading of westerners, declaring Jihad on tape, papers, and TV - and finally the world trade center/pentagon attack - that there are millions of those in the Islamic faith that want to hurt and destroy us. If they do not take part in the actual attacks, then they are financing them by donating to Hamas or Hezbollah, et cetra, aiding indirectly with travel or forgery, or egging them on with simply burning our flags and dancing in the streets rejoicing in our deaths.

    Their intolerance feeds my intolerance.

    I say the Islamic faith because such hatred of the United States/West are also promoted and approved of in non-arab countries, such as Afghanistan, but yet are in the majority of the population Islamic.

    I believe my opinion reflects reality. Islam has a real problem with an ideaology that makes christian terrorists (abortion clinic bombings/www.godhatesfags.com) look like the disorganized fruitcakes they so much are.

    I am distrustful of Islam as a way of life, and of any area of the world that makes Shia the law of the land, allowing brutallity from times past to be here in the modern era.

    P.S. Veronica, Please do not be insulted by my defining the word in a previous post. I did so because it was new to me and I would think many others. It is not a commonly used word. I always attempt to cite sources for facts I say and to define terms so that others may understand how I use the word.

    I am a fan of earlier times, that simplicity of life, and you are indeed learned to know the origins of Deogol. I am a second generation of immigrants from "the northlands" and so such things are known by tradition in my family.

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