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Thread: Anyone FEEL SORRY for dancers from San Fransciso and Houston?

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    Default Anyone FEEL SORRY for dancers from San Fransciso and Houston?

    I read posts bashing dancers who dance in San Francsico and Houston because of the extras that go on there. Is there anyone who feels sorry for dancers who perform sex acts for what may be less money than some of you are paid just to dance? Anyone have a different point of view than just disliking these girls who perform extras?

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    Default Re:Anyone FEEL SORRY for dancers from San Fransciso and Houston?

    Nope if the money is that bad to where they have to perform sexual extras for the same money. Then they should move to where the economy is better and just dance for the money. If I was a stripper and I was going to put out I would be making plenty of money because mine would be the shit! I mean come on if you can't live on the tips then why put yourself threw that. To me sex is worth alot more than money if you going to do something like that make it worth it. Do it with someone that means something to you or even pure lust but not money. Now easy on me this is just my mere opinion.

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    Default Re:Anyone FEEL SORRY for dancers from San Fransciso and Houston?

    I certainly DO have a different point of view. In the majority of clubs in San Francisco, Houston, and an ever increasing number of other cities, the opening of "Pandora's Box" in regard to extras has fundamentally changed the nature of the exotic dancing business. To be more precise, very little 'business' comes from exotic dancing anymore. This creates a work environment where girls face a dilemma - either stick to exotic dancing and earn the same sort of money they could earn by working a straight job, or compete stroke for stroke with other girls who have few qualms about offering extras.

    The question of extras may at one point have come into the picture based on greed, when it was still possible to earn decent money by just dancing but where some girls wanted MORE money. However, in these cities the extras have been so well established that the vast majority of customers now expect them, meaning that it is generally no longer possible for a girl to earn decent money in these cities if she does not also offer the extras that customers are expecting. Granted that some percentage of girls will be so beautiful or so captivating that they can work around this, but the other 90% face this dilemma every day.

    The easy short term answer of course is to relocate to a city where the extras factor hasn't yet gotten so out of control. Unfortunately, as the bad economy persists, cities with a low extras factor are getting fewer and fewer. And even in those cities that still have a low extras factor, the migration of girls trying to escape extras in other cities is now creating conditions where lots of stunningly beautiful girls are standing in line to fill any openings in clubs with decent earnings potential. This makes life very difficult for a dancer who is a 7 or an 8 when attempting to relocate to cities with high earnings potential and also a low extras factor (like New York) - odds are she'll find lots of girls who are 9's standing in line ahead of her. Of course, this isn't a problem for girls who are 10's because they can walk into any club and be hired immediately.

    Do I feel sorry for girls who are 7's and 8's in San Francisco and Houston and other high extras factor cities, who are faced with the dilemma of giving extras or earning WalMart wages - sure I do. But as I said, the actual effect is much more far reaching than just these cities. I also feel sorry for girls who are 7's and 8's in New York who can no longer count on finding dancing jobs with decent earnings potential, because they have been displaced by girls who are 9's and 10's who have migrated to New York to escape high extras factors in their 'home' cities.

    I have often argued that the forces have already been set in motion to quickly change the US strip club business model into something very similar to the European model. This means "show clubs" with very low contact and extremely beautiful, talented girls, and also means "sex clubs" where extras are readily available. Other clubs between these two extremes will be hard pressed to survive financially, and will be forced to change towards one extreme or the other or eventually go bankrupt.

    Given the limited ability of any city's economy to support "show clubs" catering to upscale businessmen and tourists, they might wind up comprising perhaps 10-20% of all clubs. Since "show clubs" will be the only place where girls will still be able to earn very decent money without high contact, many many more girls will want to work there than the club has openings for. This will allow "show club" owners to be very picky about the girls they hire, basically leading to a situation where girls who are 7's and 8's need not apply.

    If a girl is a 7 or an 8, the choice then becomes one of offering extras in a "sex club", working for WalMart wages in a "neighborhood club" (until the neighborhood club goes bankrupt anyhow), or retiring from dancing. However, unlike Europe, "sex clubs" will never be legalized in the USA meaning that dancers working in these clubs will be at constant risk of being busted. A misdemeanor bust on her record would basically slam the door on her future straight job employment prospects, thus trapping her in a vicious circle of continuing to work in a "sex club" as her ONLY option to earn decent money. This will be the REAL result of the forces set in motion in San Francisco, Houston etc. - it will eventually affect dancers throughout the USA, and particularly those dancers who are 7's and 8's who will have little or no chance of being hired in the "show clubs" (which will eventually be the only way to avoid the extras problem).

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    Default Re:Anyone FEEL SORRY for dancers from San Fransciso and Houston?

    Let's not forget the huge numbers of girls who, for whatever reason, are 'stuck' in their home cities where extras are so prevalent and cheap. Lack of education/knowledge, lack of motivation, fear of change, feeling 'tied' for family reasons, and a million other reasons keep alot of girls from even considering traveling or moving to greener pastures. Ask all the girls in any club if they have computers and internet at home, and 99% of the time you will find huge majorities of 'no'. Of course there are other factors, but I find that most girls who aren't on the net are hugely uninformed about other areas and what the working conditions are like. I do feel a bit sorry for these girls, as this puts them in the situation of having few feasible options.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re:Anyone FEEL SORRY for dancers from San Fransciso and Houston?

    not to mention that we customers are to blame too. I have been asked by guys that were walking in as I was leaving, "so, do they suck dick in there". when I said no, they left....... geeze these are stip clubs not borthels.... if I get any extras, that is what they are. I don't go for them. I am not going to condem girls for offering it, I think that our morality laws are too strict as it is but of course some of the girls just go right to it..... I have had to say that I just want a dance several times and they get upset because they think I don't like them..... even when I get two songs for what they wanted for the extra.....

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    Default Re:Anyone FEEL SORRY for dancers from San Fransciso and Houston?

    BigRed,
    I am a meanie but I would have said "The big bouncer does, why don't you ask him?" Actually, I think the fact that they left probably made the ladies day's better than they would have been if those a##holes went inside.

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    Pamela
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    Default Re:Anyone FEEL SORRY for dancers from San Fransciso and Houston?

    I do feel for some yes. Some of these ladies live there, have family and just can't or wont leave. They are now forced to make the best for them out of a nasty situation. The WHOLE dancing/stripping scene has changed since i started at 21. It's tough out there.

    One reason i went to ONLY private dancing/stripping now. I was putting myself in a situation where i could have gotten busted because the other "extras" are doing their thing on my shift. BS. I had to get out.

    And my heart goes out to those dancers who can't get out yet. I just got lucky, put in many years where it was fun and only a passing "extra" would fly through the club to never be seen again.

    Now it seems to be the norm. Bad news.

    Luck to all of you ladies who are in the situation, be careful, and keep on making it happen for you!

    Pamela

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    Default Re:Anyone FEEL SORRY for dancers from San Fransciso and Houston?

    I don't feel sorry for the girls of San Francisco. In my opinion they are doing exceptionally well. There are those that live 800-400 miles away, receive extravagent gifts, and live a lavish lifestyle. If they didn't like the work they wouldn't be there and that includes the air dancers.
    As far as extras go they are an elective. No girl has to solicit them if they don't want to and I don't know that they are any more or less prevailant in any other state. At least I don't know of any difference in Connecticut, New York, Washington, or Nevada.
    I feel sorry for the girls in Canada where the trade is monopolized by certain companies that require special favors from the girls , fire them for any reason, and charge outlandish fees.

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    SophiaRollinson
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    Default Re:Anyone FEEL SORRY for dancers from San Fransciso and Houston?

    i work in the SF clubs and yeah i will admit it is hard becouse of the girls i work with.... i do NOT OFFER extras and it is hard to meet my quota. although the customers see me as genuine and real. and thats good....the other girls be offering full service for 80.00. it hurts us girls that don't offer anything....

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    Default Re:Anyone FEEL SORRY for dancers from San Fransciso and Houston?

    I danced in Houston last week in a couple different clubs and I made good money without doing any extras. However, contact is very VERY high and guys do expect a lot for a little $$$ and it's a constant battle to keep the hands off. That said, Houston (and I suspect SF) clubs are very busy and there is enough business to go around (even for girls who DON'T do extras)...the strip club business has a huge pull there in part because there are so many beautiful girls and guys do get more for their money, in general. Who doesn't want to get more for their money?

    But what goes on (out in the open) in Houston and SF would NEVER fly in most cities (not even Vegas) because of the law enforcement. It seems that the strip club environment of blatant "extras" will stay contained to those localities, at least for now. So yes, it is a tougher environment for "clean" dancers in those localities but no, I do not feel sorry for them. They are making good money and I for one prefer not to have to worry about getting fired or arrested for letting a guy touch me during a dance!
    * FIND YOUR POWER ANIMAL

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    Default Re:Anyone FEEL SORRY for dancers from San Fransciso and Houston?

    The best of the best will always do well where ever they go so its up to
    them where they choose to go. I for one dont feel sorry for girls in SF cus they can go drive 30 min south san jose, south bay area and go to no extras. The guys who look for extras know the action is in SF, and san jose is way more conservative and rich. Presedential/gov candidates on both sides campaign in atherton/menlo park not in SF.

    During the golden age ( .com area) around 99' when extras were at the
    tip of breaking out. Liberal president, more liberal mayor who used to defend hookers and have poker games with strip club owner jim mitchel.
    Have you ever heard of local PD informing BEFORE they were coming anywhere else than SF? It was not unheard of for several girls to clear 1k after the huge tip out. Hell they were commuting by airplane from areas like La to work at mbot. Lots of geeky techies who have never touched a girl paying 500 bucks for a hand job.

    when .com went bust a few guys on SFredbook.com tried to guage an average of what the girls were making. One guy would say so and so was busy in the bedrooms( yes they have bedrooms complete w/lube, gloves,condoms etc) at this time and another guy was like yeah this girl wasnt getting any business all day. Top extras girls were still making up to around 400 for night shift and and no extras girls maybe around 1-2 while the bottom were losing money. I heard girls paying meters with own money to meet quota and not get fired. Money is not so good anymore and the geeky techies still around are jaded and have done former print models now.

    Alot of the new girls coming in now are also $300-400 escorts from vegas. word is vegas sucks for them as not alot of rich conventioners now. So they were doing extras long before they got here. They know what they got into so I dont feel sorry for those ones. I feel bad for the broke college student who is naive about the situation here and was thinking that it would be fun and quick way to make a cash.
    whats a PL to do?

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    Default Re:Anyone FEEL SORRY for dancers from San Fransciso and Houston?

    Ok - just to clarify, I don't feel sorry for the girls who travel to a city knowing full well what they're getting into, and/or who commute to an extras city to work. Obviously they know the deal and are cool with it. I'm talking about the ones who are from the area, start dancing there and always dance there, and have no idea that other areas are not like that. These are the girls who wind up 'forced' into making a decision between doing extras to make a living or dancing clean for peanuts - there aren't too many girls who can make a decent living dancing clean in a place like Houston or SF. Even if there's alot of business, the guys know that all they have to do is a minimal amount of 'hunting' to find a girl who'll do whatever they want. You guys may not believe there are alot of girls like this in the biz, but there ARE. Lots and lots and lots. They may hear from other girls about other places, but chances are, they don't pay much attention or don't believe the 'hype'.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re:Anyone FEEL SORRY for dancers from San Fransciso and Houston?

    This topic is very personal for me because I just got back from dancing in Houston for only 2 days, and am already so frustrated and burned out from fighting off having to succumb to extras that I don't think I will ever dance in Houston again, although I did make decent money, much more than I would at a regular office job. Still, I feel so mentally and emotionally drained for the first time in all of my years of stripping.

    In Houston, 50% of the time, the guys are trying to get something for nothing, aka, running game on me when I am on the clock. The other 50% of the time, once we get the ball rolling, within 2 or 3 dances, they are unzipping their pants. There has to be a better way.

    That being said, please don't feel sorry for any of these girls. Exotic dancing is one of the few professions where a young uneducated woman can make lots of money. We all make our choices, and each one of us, no matter what one says on a damn internet forum, is walking a fine line between dancing and prostitution.

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    Default Re:Anyone FEEL SORRY for dancers from San Fransciso and Houston?

    By the way, even myself, as a well travelled person, would be really hesitant about travelling alone to a strange city to live in a hotel and work as a stripper if I don't know anyone and cannot be guaranteed the same, if not greater income than in my state. Also, in Houston, I can walk into 100% of the clubs and be hired on spot without taking off a shred of clothing. What happens when a girl like me (maybe 8.5) spends all this $$$ to come dance in NY and gets rejected? It would break my heart (and fragile ego, hehe!)

    Basically, if the dancer does not have a friend to travel with, or maybe an agency that helps, it is SUPER intimidating to travel just to strip......

    Does anyone here think that going through an agency helps a traveling dancer with a bit of safety net? Opinions? Experience?

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
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    Default Re:Anyone FEEL SORRY for dancers from San Fransciso and Houston?

    Thats what I was thinking why subject yourself to so much stress I traveled a great amount of my life not as a stripper because I am not and never will be just do to the fact I not in that kind of shape and never will most likely. Anyways I have been in 44 states in my life but the kind traveling I was talking about wasn't staying in motel room. I was talking about moving. I myself was thinking of traveling for work and if work got bad I would be traveling. This is the nature of my work. Instead looking at another state I would be looking at another country. I have work in Afghanstan (sp) in my trade I make 61,000 this year and go over there I will make 175,000 plus a 50,000 one year bonus if I stay a year but I would have to stay the whole year with out comeing back. The reason you can't come back is the money is tax free if you stay a year. I would not see my wife or kids for a whole year. So to me if you have a problem go some where you can do something about it.That is my opinion and that only.

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    Default Re:Anyone FEEL SORRY for dancers from San Fransciso and Houston?

    By the way, even myself, as a well travelled person, would be really hesitant about travelling alone to a strange city to live in a hotel and work as a stripper if I don't know anyone and cannot be guaranteed the same, if not greater income than in my state. Also, in Houston, I can walk into 100% of the clubs and be hired on spot without taking off a shred of clothing. What happens when a girl like me (maybe 8.5) spends all this $$$ to come dance in NY and gets rejected? It would break my heart (and fragile ego, hehe!)
    If you come to New York and are rejected by the top shelf "show clubs", you then face the option of dancing in a 'second tier' club which will hire you immediately. If these 'second tier' clubs are clean, your earnings potential will probably be rather disappointing. Given that New York is a very expensive city to visit i.e. hotels, cabs, food, you'll probably be facing a money losing situation working in a clean "second tier" club. Of course there are other "second tier" clubs in the NY/NJ area which offer significantly better earnings potential, but these clubs also require that the dancer provide higher mileage (although still not in the San Fran/Houston mileage category).

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    Default Re:Anyone FEEL SORRY for dancers from San Fransciso and Houston?

    Just wanted to add my $.02. . .

    I danced in San Francisco for quite a while, up until 2.5 years ago, when I guess I retired (!). I NEVER did any extras, and yet I did very well money-wise. I worked hard and tried to keep a good attitude. At the time I quit, it did seem like things were getting even dirtier in the city, and money wasn't being spent as freely.

    That being said, I am quite sure there are plenty of girls (still) who don't do extras, just as there are plenty that do.

    What I feel sorry for is not just the loss of money for girls who don't do extras, but the emotional toll (on everyone). I've been there, it's alot of stress. I was always pretty pissed and disgusted by the extras that did go on around me - whether it was blatant or done with secrecy, it took a toll on my emotions for sure. Whether it cut into my money or not (sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't), it just wasn't a pleasant environment to be in. The extras divide between some dancers and others creates an atmosphere of suspicion and animosity.

    There is always going to be a some competitive element to dancing (which is a shame), but it becomes horrific when everyone is playing by different rules (or lack thereof). It's just so much stress, in an already stress-prone job.

    The girls who don't do extras have to deal with loss of money, stress, pressure to start doing extras (I often wonder if the girls I used to know who were anti-extras are ok, if they have given in to the pressure, if they have also quit). And judging by the amount of denial and rationaliztion some girls who do extras engage in, that whole scene has got to be hard on them too!!

    I can't imagine that doing extras doesn't chip away at a girl. Just being around all that was alot to deal with - it took alot of hard work to not have it really f*** up my view of people - men AND women!

    It's a sad situation in general. I always wished we could go back to a time when entertainment and titillation was the aim.
    It seems that all of that is a thing of the past, in an age where anything can be had, there is not much appreciation for mystery and beauty. Too bad.

    Like I said, just my $.02.

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