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Thread: Smoking has just been banned in our club

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    Member DJBitchPleasa's Avatar
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    Default Smoking has just been banned in our club

    As of january 1st the state of Maine enacted a law that now bans smoking in bars. We are all concerned at the club I work at about how this is going to effect business. Has anyone been through this transition from a smoking to non smoking club. If so, can you give me any incite into how this will effect the club in the short term, and in the long term?

    By the way it's cold as hell up here this week so it really sucks to go out for a cigarette. So far, our biggest fear is that when our smoking customers get thier coats on and head out for a smoke, they are just one step away from leaving all together.

    Ron
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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    Well, if some of the New York clubs which were subjected to a new no smoking law were any example, your assumption will probably be correct. Instead of customers being comfortable during a 2-3-4 hour time period inside the club, smoking club customers now seldom stay for more than one hour. This means that there is no longer much of an opportunity to socialize with club customers, "chat them up" etc. in expectation of getting several private dances in a row. Instead it seems that smoking customers now want to come into the club, choose a favorite quickly based on physical appearance or some other first impression, buy a few dances, and *poof* they are gone. And it's not just a few individual customers either ... if a group of guys come in together, even though only a couple of them may be smokers the entire group is going to get up and leave together after an hour or so.

    There has been a silver lining of sorts from the New York anti-smoking law though. It has been a big plus for clubs across the state line in New Jersey ! Instead of staying in Manhattan, many business guys now cross over into Jersey for dinner and a night out because they can smoke to their heart's content without being forced to freeze to death standing on the sidewalk !

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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    Ack!! I would totally hate that! I would imagine it would affect business... and if Alabama were to do that, I'm afraid I'd be forced to find another line of work, as I smoke entirely too much, but not ready to quit!

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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    Something similiar was thought about by the local council here on the Gold Coast... I am so very glad that it never happened. WAY too many people (businesses and individuals) were against it.

    At the moment smoking isn't allowed inside restaurants or any area where the person is eating as well. So smokers have to dine outside (if there is no outside eating area.. they have to leave the table and go outside) to have a smoke.

    It isn't so much the customers that will stop coming (or not stay for so long)... I would say it would also hurt the dancers! I know WAY too many dancers who are smokers... I would say on any given shift that 80-90% of the dancers are smokers.

    I am part of the minority who aren't affected by any changes in smoking laws as I'm a "never-smoker". I allow everyone else to smoke for me


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    Featured Member sadbuttrue's Avatar
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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    Welcome fellow Mainer! Well, I used to live there anyway. Very sorry to hear about the smoking ban! I still have relatives up there and vacation some, so I guess I won't like visiting the bars much.

    When I was up in Ontario, where they had already instituted it, some clubs had weaseled out of it, by calling it a private club where you had to sign to go in. Being a private club, there were able to allow smoking. That was in the Niagara area. If you went to the west they weren't able to get away with it, I think. Dancers outside in costume, maybe with a coat on, really freezing their naughty bits off. Now that's hard core! Tell me that's not a health problem.

    In Boston, it's the same way with the no smoking rule. Another reason I stay celar of there.

    It's true though, my visits will be shortened at the clubs, if that happens in my area.

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    Featured Member sadbuttrue's Avatar
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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    Have them build a heated smoke shelter separate from the club. Now there&#039;s a business to get into, Port-a-smoke!

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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    Hey, Ron, I&#039;ll go to non-smoking clubs anytime! At least it&#039;s a smoking ban, not an alcohol ban. Here in PR there is talk about passing either a closing law for businesses serving alcohol (at 2AM, which I find unjust) or a law banning alcohol sales after that hour(which is more reasonable althought I&#039;m not for it either, but at least clubs may remain open). Should either law pass, nightclubs (including SC&#039;s) will definitely $uffer.



  8. #8
    Pamela
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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    Fl. clubs have been in effect. Your club sells food, NO smoking. (Down here.) Snacks don&#039;t count, chips candybars etc. No foods that are made. I saw a small decline in customers. But now people have come back, they walk outside and take a smoke, come back inside.

    Then again this is fL. and it&#039;s pretty warm, 50&#039;s at night is do-able for a smoke.

    Pamela

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    A few NY clubs have also been able to avoid the no-smoking law by establishing themselves as "cigar bars" - and the smartest of these have designated the VIP room as the only area where smoking is allowed, which serves as a strong incentive for customers and dancers to head towards the VIP room as often as possible LOL. However, in order to keep this "cigar bar" exemption in the coming year the clubs must be able to show that X % of their earnings actually comes from the sale of cigars and cigarettes, which might be a pretty tough thing to do. This X % requirement also has the unintended consequence of forcing clubs to try and reduce the amount of club income from dancing activities (on paper at least) to make the tobacco income % look higher. One way this can be done is for clubs to issue 1099s for any money they paid out to dancers in the form of private dance splits or VIP room "commissions", which officially eliminates this money as club income and designates it as dancers&#039; income instead.

    A few bars and restaurants have also sought exemptions based on a drastic decline in income after the smoking ban went into effect last July. However very few have been granted despite the fact that some bars and restaurants have been able to show a 33% or 50% decline in income, and this was BEFORE the freezing weather months set in!. Unlike Pamela&#039;s assessment of Florida, in the northeast there are at least 4 months every winter when customers don&#039;t want to be standing around on the sidewalk to have a smoke, because the cigarette will wind up freezing to your lips !

    Again, the NY versus NJ situation in regard to smoking is very similar to clubs on opposite sides of state/international borders where one area is severely restricted while the other nearby area is not. A NY example is Buffalo, NY which only allows topless+alcohol+light contact versus Ft. Erie, Ontario which offers full nude+alcohol+major contact. At some point business does stabilize, with the area with severe restrictions retaining some level of business and the area that is unrestricted drawing additional business due to the willingness of some customers to cross the Canadian border and drive 20 extra minutes in order to get more "bang for their buck".

  10. #10
    Pamela
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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    THey find ways to get around the system sooner or later. I only wonder how long lived this act will be.

    Check this one out, we have a club in south Florida that is now serving drinks with nicotine! Can&#039;t find any info. on the web as of yet. i will keep looking.

    Pamela

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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    Quote Originally Posted by Pamela link=board=1;threadid=5732;start=msg62142#msg62142 date=1073839363
    THey find ways to get around the system sooner or later. I only wonder how long lived this act will be.
    Yes, this all boils down to enforcement of the law. I&#039;m certain that the NY law is being violated left and right in certain clubs. However, this has another unintended consequence - exposing dancers and club customers to being charged with a violation which can result in a $1000 fine if they are caught smoking. If they are willing to do that, then why not also violate certain other laws which involve a lower fine (like $500) but which allow the dancer to earn lots more money (i.e. state prostitution and local no-contact laws).

    As far as any of these no-smoking laws being repealed, it simply ain&#039;t going to happen. This is a huge item on the Democratic Party&#039;s political agenda, and it has huge financial backing from the medical establishment, the health insurance industry, and some state governments, who all think that they will profit from the effects of this law. In fact, the Democrats have already put this issue behind them on a national level and are moving forward to attack MacDonalds and other fast food businesses for causing obesity related health problems.

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    Featured Member Lilith's Avatar
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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    I&#039;m glad my club isn&#039;t affected by the laws here in Florida. I can always step outside when I visit a restaurant, but if I go outside in my dancer costume (even on full gown nights) it is considered prostitution.
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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    ...and the self righteous who want to do anything to control others&#039; behavior just say "We do not want &#039;those&#039; kind of places anyway. See there are benefits."

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    IMHO these no-smoking laws only hasten the transition to a "two club" system - where a small percentage of upscale show clubs are able to afford the legal and accounting hassle of obtaining a smoking exemption and thus can continue operating within the law. Other clubs who cannot afford to obtain the smoking exemption will face the dilemma of seeing business decline or breaking the no-smoking law and risking the $1000 fine. If one law is going to be blatantly broken, then there is very little extra risk or consequences in breaking other laws as well i.e. no contact ordinances and prostitution laws, especially when breaking the other laws provides lots of extra income which will be needed to pay the fines.

    Clubs who find themselves in the "middle of the road" trying to obey the law and forced to operate without a smoking exemption will simply see a further decline in business, which at some point will bankrupt the club and the dancers working there. Seeing these "middle of the road" clubs go out of business will indeed satisfy that segment of the general public (mostly suburban) who objected to having a strip club in their back yard in the first place.

    However, this will NOT be good news for dancers who are less than "perfect 10&#039;s" and thus will have difficulty getting hired by the upscale "show clubs" who have obtained smoking exemptions and thus have retained their big spending customers and can still offer a high dancer earnings potential within the law. This will lead to a dilemma for the other dancers of doing what is necessary in the second tier clubs which will be violating the no-smoking law as well as state prostitution laws and local no-contact ordinances, or slowly starving to death in the "middle of the road" clubs attempting to operate within the laws in regard to smoking as well as contact/extras as customers simply stop going to these clubs.

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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    I&#039;m with Carlos, I&#039;ll go to a non-smoking club anytime. I&#039;ve been to several clubs in California that didn&#039;t allow smoking and I loved it, I hate leaving a club with the stench of cigarette smoke all over me, with my eyes all red, and with my lungs all full of smoke (these are the reasons I don&#039;t smoke), I couldn&#039;t imagine having to work in that type of environment every night .

    Is there a point for you ladies where the benefits of working in a non-smoking club would outweigh any possible loss of income, or is the almighty dollar the only real factor at play here for you?

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    Richard, you might ask the California dancers who are now travelling to Nevada regularly to dance, or who are working in San Fran clubs which are blatantly breaking the smoking laws along with a few other state laws in order to earn decent money. Plus in California smokers are able to go outside for a smoke without freezing their lips off all year long !

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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    I&#039;m not sure I buy that Melonie, there are girls from all over the country go to Nevada to dance whether the state they dance in have a non-smoking ban or not. It just seems to me that the fear that business would drop off is greater than the actual loss of business itself, and if there is a drop off I&#039;m guessing it would be short term. I also have got to believe that there are dancers out there who would prefer to work in that type of environment, I know you don&#039;t all smoke, do you?



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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    actually pam, it&#039;s if your food sales are more than 10 percent of your revenue you cant smoke. my club sold tons of food but has backed off in promoting food sales to allow us to keep smoking. i dont think it&#039;s closely watched. there was talk at the begining of the ordiance of making an outdoor pavillion with bar for smokers. (my club is on 20 plus acres) thankfully that hasnt had to happen.
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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    Since I&#039;m a "never smoker"... having the club no-smoking wouldn&#039;t affect me personally. I would enjoy it a bit more since my hair and everything else wouldn&#039;t stink so much due to the smoke.

    There&#039;s also the health benefits for the dancers as I do know of a few cases where dancers who have danced in smoke-y environments have developed health problems due to their work (ie ashthma).

    At the same time, there are still alot of patrons that do smoke in my club.


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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    California also has a smoking ban. I worked in Sacramento for a few months, and the customers were used to it - they just went outside, even in the cold, then came back in a few minutes. There was a certain bathroom in a back corner the girls used to smoke in, and it seemed to work out fine. I LOVED coming home from work not smelling like a nasty-ass ashtray.

    As for the NY &#039;cigar bars&#039;, if they have VIP rooms designated as the only smoking sections, it seems they could give guys a little &#039;cigar pack&#039; as part of the price of VIP admission, and write it up as cigar sales. Instant jump in on-paper earnings attributed to tobacco sales.

    With any new law of this type, there is going to be a transitional period of slower business until people get used to it and businesses learn how best to deal with / get around it. Heh, I like sad&#039;s port-a-smoke idea. In places where they have the available real estate, that could be a great idea.

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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    Well, thanks for all the feed back from everyone who posted. It seems the outlook is grim. Especially for the short term until people adjust. One theory I have is that smokers will stop going to bars for a while and just do thier partying at home. That is until thier houses get trashed then they will begin to venture out again. I think the winter months will show the worst of things but I do hope it will just be an adjustment period before things level back out. After all, when smoking in resteraunts was banned, resteraunts in this state took a 40% hit the first year. I had stopped going out to eat for a while, but now it seems perfectly natural to go to a restraunt and not smoke. But then the bar scene is another story brcause it depends on people staying longer than in reteraunts.

    The club I work at has a certain advantages and disadvantages. The state only has two SCs and the other is way up north. So we don&#039;t have much competition. But we have also been under the hammer fom local officials as of late who would like to see us go away. The new smoking law will unfortunately just give them one more thing to watch us for.

    At this point Dancers are actually required to get fully dressed to go out for a cigrette. That just means less entertainers on the floor at any given time. That sucks.

    Someone made mention of turning the club into a private club to avoid the law. Unfortunately the state hhas managed to include private clubs in the ban as well.

    At this point there is some hope. The law allows for a smoking room on premisses as long as no business is conducted in it and no employee or person is ever in a position to have to go into that room unwillingly. The management is frantically looking at the blueprints to try and find a place to build such a room. It may at least keep those guys from leaving during the colder months.

    Wish us luck, thanks for the responses.

    Ron

    P.S. To the non smokers. I think we can probably all agree that the world would be a better place if there was no such thing as tabaco. I myself am taking this opartunity to try and quit smoking myself, at least that would be one good thing that would come of it. But the unfortuate reality is, that the majority of people who go out to drink also smoke, many who don&#039;t even smoke otherwise. A smoke free club has it&#039;s benefits. Unfortunately none of them are good for the income of the club or the employees. Who knows, maybe in 10 years, smoking will be a minority habit but until then I am concerned for myself and the entertainers I work with.

    WOW.. That was long winded....Sorry
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    Member DJBitchPleasa's Avatar
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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    Yes, there have been. Unfortunately the city and state are hammering down on us so they are enforcing every letter of every law that partains. It would take a while to explain the changes but it comes down to the fact that, by Maine state law, it is illigal to conduct business while even in the possesion of a drink. So now, if a girl wants to have a drink, she can&#039;t except tips, discuss dances or do stages until that drink is gone or given up. Also, the conduct during dances has been strictly enforced. Distance from the customer, no similated sexual acts (even a girl licking her own nipples is out). that kind of stuff. I thnk the heat will all die down once the liquor liscence is renewed.

    Maine has got a stick up it&#039;s ass an d it seems like they have sat on it lately.
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  23. #23
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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    Boston has a VERY recent smoking ban. just city wide... so rediculous. I can tell you this though... it hasn&#039;t affected business (from what i understand). I am assuming you work at one of the 2 clubs in Maine, either in Portland or Kittery... wait... there is one in like, Bangor or somethng, I think. Anyway, it&#039;s not like there is a plethora of clubs to choose from. If you want some adult entertainment, you can only go to 2 or 3 places so I wouldn&#039;t look for a big change in business. Good luck with the transition, though!

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    Featured Member ami's Avatar
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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    there isnt suppost to be any smoking here, and from what i see the customers dont smoke inside but emplyees will. and not that discreetly either. there are ashtrays and cigarette butts and everything. I will admit I come home smelling less like smoke but not compleatly clean. I am a never-smoker. but smoke dosnt bother me unless its terribly excessive or unless i have been drinking (did smoke socialy, got sloshed smoked terribly sick the next day, now smoke makes me sick when i drink). I work in a no alchol club so that is not a problem at all. besides i wouldnt drink a lot anyway as i dont like falling down (not too graceful) and i like to be able to keep track of the guys and to drive home. but i digress. there is also something about being able to smoke herbal cigaretts. i dont understand that. whatever. the customers useually come back in, but then again i dont pay attention well.

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    Featured Member polecat's Avatar
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    Default Re:Smoking has just been banned in our club

    Bridgette nailed this on on the head concerning the transition period. I watched it happen out here in California 6 years ago or so when our smoking ban went into place... I&#039;m sure it will be the same elsewhere.

    A few smart cookies actually profitted from it through correct preparation. In California&#039;s case, the law was passed nearly 4 years before being enacted, so clubs/bars had ample time to accomodate smoking customers. Those that did saw increases in traffic.. those that didn&#039;t... well...

    California laws left lots of exceptions for creating exhaust fanned, unattended facilities (i.e. box room with about $1000 worth of fan installation lol) as well as creating the same "cigar room" kinds of tobacco sales exceptions.

    Many clubs did nothing, as well as it created a traffic/inconvenience for club entry/re-entry as the in and out traffic wasn&#039;t properly planned for. Smaller clubs ignored the law entirely as enforcement hasn&#039;t been a big priority for some clubs, and to this day there are plenty of bars/dives where people smoke inside. ALL the major strip clubs adhere to the smoking ban though, and most have optimized entry/re-entry so as not to inconvenience smoking patrons.

    Overall, it&#039;s a great thing here. I do indeed smoke, but never really did inside clubs before the ban anyways. I dont even smoke in my home and prefer not to in enclosed areas. Tobacco smoke *does* stink, and the smoke itself is unhealthy and irritant for others. It&#039;s also a huge plus for people that haul their equipment into clubs (DJ&#039;s, musicians, etc.) since your stuff doesnt get all stunk up with tobacco smell.
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