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Thread: dangerous doctors

  1. #1
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    Default dangerous doctors

    Who is more dangerous?



    >
    >Number of physicians in the US = 700,000
    >
    >Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year = 120,000
    >
    >Accidental deaths per physician = 0.171
    >
    >(U.S. Dept. of Health & Human Services)
    >
    >
    >
    >Number of gun owners in the U.S. = 80,000,000
    >
    >Number of accidental gun deaths per year = 1,500
    >
    >Accidental deaths per gun owner = .0000188
    >
    >(U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms)
    >
    >
    >
    >Therefore doctors are over 9000 times more dangerous than gun owners.
    >
    >Benton County News Tribune
    >

  2. #2
    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re:dangerous doctors

    That works out to 114 handguns per doctor. Those suckers are armed to the teeth.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:dangerous doctors

    that statistic is the reason behind the old adage "Doctors get to bury their mistakes, but we have to live with ours" (ex Respiratory Therapist hospital humor)

  4. #4
    Pamela
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    Default Re:dangerous doctors

    Well not evryone will own a gun, but bet your butt Ryan 95% of the population will see a doc. in their life time. Doctors are not god. They make mistakes, if i have HIV or AIDS for example, hell yea i will take my chances on a "pill cocktail" to extend my life another 15 or more years.

    Medicine has come along way, and getting better, i am a cardiac patient, without my medication, i would have probably went into "heart block." How do i now? I know my body, it's symptoms.

    How many people actually get killed yearly in automobile accidents nation wide? Too many, and it's not their fault!

    I know you are anti doc. But gosh Ryan try looking into how many lives are SAVED because of doctors.

    Pamela

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    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re:dangerous doctors

    Quote Originally Posted by miss george link=board=5;threadid=6038;start=msg66077#msg66077 date=1074965184
    I guess the difference is, any accidental death with a handgun is completely needless and avoidable. And, as Pamela pointed out, doctors save countless lives. How many lives do handguns actually save?
    Miss George,
    If you are willing to believe made up statistic which are just as made up as RYAN's, you can find them at this web site http://www.pulpless.com/gunclock/noframedex.html

    (PS this data is probably urban legend too)

    Since some people do not care whether the statistics they are quoting are accurate, the whole discussion is moot. In the first place the number of 150,000 people is not an estimate of people killed by Doctors-- it is an upper bound of an estimate by the Insitute of medicine (IOM) of the number of people who die FROM ALL MEDICAL ERRORS )not just MD's). IT is only on the H&HS web site or reports as a quotation of that statistic. The page with the link to the study is in a prior thread. If certain people bothered to actually report anything factually, the number also includes people who die from nursing mistakes, pharmacist mistakes, first-responder mistakes, and for good measure they threw in suicides for people under the care of psychologist.

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    God/dess Zabrina's Avatar
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    Default Re:dangerous doctors

    You have convinced me Ryan. I will now cure any ailments with the roots, twigs, and berries I find growing in the backyard.

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    Default Re:dangerous doctors

    Don't do that.I've developed my own proprietary method of bodily manipulation guaranteed to cure nothing,provide me with salacious thrills and lighten your bank balance.
    Tell a man that there are countless billions of stars in the universe and he'll believe you.Tell him that some paint is wet and he'll touch it to make sure.

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    Default Re:dangerous doctors

    Mariah don't poke fun at nature's medicines. There are herbs in nature that are VERY strong antibiotics, antiparacitics, antivirals, antifungals.

    These have been used successfully for many thousands of years. It is only in the past 65 years that we have used synthetic (man-made) chemicals for medicines, and as far as I am concerned we are just beginning to see the ramifications of putting unnatural substances in the body, and the long-term ill-affects of it. Some scientists are giving up the "expensive band-aid" appraoch widely used by pharmaceutical companies and their drug dealers (doctors) and looking at the body from a holistic perspective. The body, if treated right, CAN repair itself of ANYTHING. This has readily been proven thousands of times.

    So make your little jokes about twigs and berries Mariah, but adopting a more natural health approach may be the very thing we need to turn around the obesity, depresstion, high cancer, stroke, heart disease, ect that our country and other industrialized countries are experiencing in epedemic porportions. I know from personal experience that adopting a living-foods diet I have remidied terrible indigestion (which I would have been prescribed a pill for at the doctor) conquered depression ( another pill from the doctor) lost 30 pounds, got an AMAZING complexion, have insane amounts of energy, feel GREAT all the time, have NO bad breath of body odor, have clean fast and easy bowel movements, can stay in the sun all day without burning (used to get terrible sunburn from toxins "cooking" under my skin) regrew the hair from my receding hair line, no more acne, hair and nails grow fast and strong, no headaches, and the list goes on and on and on and on. Now, I may have made a stupid comment a couple years back like yours Mariah, but now I know better, I know the power of RAW, LIVING foods, the same food that every single other organism on the planet eats. Now, if raw flesh appeals to you, go ahead find a rabbit or turkey and dig in with your teeth. But personally this isn't for me, I go for fruits, veggies, nuts, ans seeds and I feel RAWSOME. So laugh on, and keep popping those pills!

  9. #9
    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re:dangerous doctors

    What was that quote from another thread, "more anecdotal evidence does not equal data".

    Testimonials are scientifically unsound. Just because it works for you does not mean it is optimal for everyone. Most healthy adults do not need the amound of medicial technology we have to live..unless we want to keep our teeth and live past 40........

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

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    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

  10. #10
    Pamela
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    Default Re:dangerous doctors

    Yea as i am now reading the Perricone Prescription, it is a very nice book. However, clear up a Staph infection without antibiotics, it's not do-able if it's actually staph. That is one argument i will win, hands down.

    Pamela

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    Default Re:dangerous doctors

    Perricone does have some great info. I totally agree with him on the need for high amounts of fruits and berries, and I agree with the fact that we need more omega3 in our diets. However, I DO NOT agree that we should be getting our omega3 from fish because fish are highly polluted with mercury, PCB's ect. The food with the highest amount of omega3 in the world is flax seed, followed by hemp seed. These are FAR cleaner sources of omega3...

    PAM, if you have a few minutes PLEASE check out this link and listen to this doctor speak about omega3, DHA, iron, calcium, zinc, protien, ect... This is a GREAT article

    http://www.veganmd.org/talks/

    Click on "download entire lecture" for "optimum vegetarian nutrition"

    This lecture clearly explains the shortcomings of the vegan diet (b12) and WHY there isn't enough b12 in the veegan/vegetarian diet.

  12. #12
    Pamela
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    Default Re:dangerous doctors

    Yea i thought about that Ryan, i will read the link sent. I am getting my Omega 3 from a capsule now, but believe it or not it does upset my stomache, maybe i need to eat first.? Dunno.

    Can i get Omega 3 from Olive oil? I am a big fan of Olive oil on everything. I use extra virgin cold pressed. And i adore the Greek diet!

    Pamela.

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    Default Re:dangerous doctors

    The technique I use is to gather up all the advice from the top nutrition experts in the world and use what info makes sense to me. The people I look at are Dr. Mercola (mercola.com) Dr. Cousens (treeoflife.nu) David Wolfe (davidwolfe.com) Dr Michael Kreager (veganmd.org) ect...

    Basically what I have found compiling all this information from different source is

    1) A diet high in RAW foods (90%+) is optimal

    2) A diet high in omega 3 and LOW in omega 6 is optimal

    3) Adequate amounts of b12

    4) SUNSHINE

    5) Adequate amounts of "brain food" like DHA and EFA

    6) Ample water or, ideally, fruits high in water several times per day

    7) NO microwaved food, trans fats, fried foods, starchy foods, factory farmed foods, GMO's, soy, or grains

    VERY limited cooked fats, stcik to cold pressed olive oil, avocado, raw nuts, and coconut for fats.

    9) Exercise

    10) enough sleep

    I feel these are among the 10 key points for an ideal diet. I may have missed a couple of importnat points, but this information seems to be common ground among most life-long nutrition experts.

    Following these guidelines we can greatly decrease or even completely eliminate almost all chronic diseases suffered by the general public. Understand that what we take into our bodies radically affects how we feel, how we look, and how we will look and feel for the rest of our lives. We are in a time when pharmaceutical companies are advertising on billboards, buses, magazines, TV, TV guides, bus seats, ect. We are so used to turning to pharmaceuticals that we are not looking into the real causes of our problems. The "expensive band-aid approach of most drugs is NOT the answer. We are not "curing" much at all even with our "miracle technology" Heart disease is still a cause for 50+ percent of deaths, cancer rates continue to rise, AIDS still rages on despite trillions in research (and as a little sidenote people DO NOT live any longer with HIV medication), Diabetis is a rapidly growing epidemic, childhood cancers are a rapidly growing epidemic, obesity is a rapidly growing epidemic, and the list continues.

    I want people to look at the available information out there (there is a lot) and make wise health-choices. Together we make a difference.

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    Featured Member screaminpeachez's Avatar
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    Default Re: dangerous doctors

    Quote Originally Posted by montythegeek
    That works out to 114 handguns per doctor. Those suckers are armed to the teeth.
    monty you crack me up
    "may your work like you don't need the money, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching, screw like your being filmed and drink like a true Irishman "--anonymous
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    God/dess Will's Avatar
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    Default Re: dangerous doctors

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss George
    I guess the difference is, any accidental death with a handgun is completely needless and avoidable. And, as Pamela pointed out, doctors save countless lives. How many lives do handguns actually save?
    Quite a few actually. I gun is used between 700,000 (FBI data) and 2,000,000 (Klecks data) times per year to prevent a crime in the US. That effect is particularly important to women. For example:


    WOMEN, 911 AND GUNS

    American women are often taught to rely on emergency 911 police
    responses in the event of physical aggression. Unfortunately, more
    than 95 percent of 911 calls are not dispatched to police in time to
    stop a crime or arrest a suspect.

    This sad statistic is unlikely to improve significantly in the near
    future because almost every state has ruled that police have no legal
    obligation to protect citizens from crime.

    The slowness of 911 emergency response -- and the ineffectiveness of
    restraining orders issued by today's courts -- suggests that
    self-defense may be a better option, according to attorneys Richard
    Stevens, Hugo Teufel and Matthew Biscan.

    "A woman with a firearm...can credibly threaten and deter an attacker
    of any size, shape, or strength," they write in THE WOMEN'S
    QUARTERLY. "Even though weaker and unskilled in the use of firearms,
    she can sometimes protect herself with a sidearm without firing a
    shot. In more than 92 percent of defensive gun uses, the defender
    succeeds by firing only a warning shot or never firing the gun at
    all." (The article is excerpted from their chapter in the Independent
    Institute book LIBERTY FOR WOMEN: Freedom and Feminism in the
    Twenty-first Century, edited by Wendy McElroy.)

    The above may help explain why, in recent years, women have
    reportedly purchased firearms and enrolled in gun-safety classes in
    record numbers.

    Stevens, Teufel and Biscan conclude: "Individual women in peril quite
    frequently fare better when they develop skill and confidence in the
    carrying and using of defensive firearms. Victim disarmament ("gun
    control") laws that discourage women from developing the skills and
    using defensive firearms actually heighten the risks of criminal
    violence that women face. Such laws place women at a disadvantage
    against violent men and run against the feminist goal of equal
    treatment under the law."

    See "Disarming Women," by Richard W. Stevens, Hugo Teufel III, and
    Matthew Y. Biscan (THE WOMEN'S QUARTERLY, Summer 2002)
    http://www.independent.org/tii/light...ink4-30-3.html

    A longer version of this article appears in LIBERTY FOR WOMEN:
    Freedom and Feminism in the Twenty-first Century, edited by Wendy
    McElroy. See http://independent.org/tii/content/briefs/b_lfw.html

    ************************************************** ***************
    A cunning linguist...

  16. #16
    God/dess Will's Avatar
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    Default Re: dangerous doctors

    Quote Originally Posted by montythegeek
    Miss George,
    If you are willing to believe made up statistic which are just as made up as RYAN's, you can find them at this web site http://www.pulpless.com/gunclock/noframedex.html

    (PS this data is probably urban legend too)

    Since some people do not care whether the statistics they are quoting are accurate, the whole discussion is moot. In the first place the number of 150,000 people is not an estimate of people killed by Doctors-- it is an upper bound of an estimate by the Insitute of medicine (IOM) of the number of people who die FROM ALL MEDICAL ERRORS )not just MD's). IT is only on the H&HS web site or reports as a quotation of that statistic. The page with the link to the study is in a prior thread. If certain people bothered to actually report anything factually, the number also includes people who die from nursing mistakes, pharmacist mistakes, first-responder mistakes, and for good measure they threw in suicides for people under the care of psychologist.
    From a recent article I did on the topic:

    "Did you know that medical mistakes kill an estimated 225,000 people per year in the US alone? A recent study published in The Journal of The American Medical Association (2000:284:94) by Barbara Starfield, MD, MPH, showed that in the U.S. there are:

    · 12,000 deaths per year from unnecessary surgery
    · 7,000 deaths per year from medication errors in hospitals
    · 20,000 deaths per year from other errors in hospitals
    · 80,000 deaths per year from nosocomial infections in hospitals
    · 106,000 deaths per year from adverse effects of medications

    The makes medically based mistakes the third leading cause of death in the U.S., second only to heart disease and cancer"
    A cunning linguist...

  17. #17
    Pamela
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    Default Re: dangerous doctors

    Ok talking about dangerous doctors i do have to say, after care plays a HUGE factor in these deaths. Doctors rely heavily on nursing staff to check vitals and make sure there are no signs of infection for one. It is a nurses job to contact the attending doctor when a patient is "out of sorts," i.e. Fever.

    Also very high count for adverse reactions to drugs. Again, doctors DO NOT know who will have a reaction to a drug. It's chance. Either the drug may save you're life, or it can kill you.

    As for other deaths...just remember doctors are not God. And given the amount of patients seen every year, and age as well, these numbers could be much higher.

    Pamela

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    God/dess Bunny's Avatar
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    Default Re: dangerous doctors

    I used to date a doctor do drank on call all the time. One time he told me that most of the time he really didn't know what was wrong with his patients but if you just try something you'll usually make them feel better and it probably won't kill them. I ended up going into therapy due to my relationship with this guy because he was an alcoholic. My therapist dealt with a lot of drug/alcohol addiction issues and told me that an estimated 30% of physicians had a drug and/or alcohol problem. She was a recovering alcoholic herself and said there was a neurosurgeon in her AA meetings that had performed surgeries he couldn't remember.

    Not all doctors are bad, but I guess I've been sort of put off by some of the things I've learned and don't like to go to the doctor. I have a couple I really like and I actually go all the way home to see my parents to see my doctors and dentist. I can't hardly afford it anyway these days to see a doctor so it's not really an issue.

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