Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: confused by (lack of) rules

  1. #1
    Member katrin's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    51
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default confused by (lack of) rules

    I'm a girl who likes and needs to know where the boundaries are, so I can work up to the edges of them, if you know what I mean.

    So I get "hired" at this place... by a security guy. He runs down a list of rules for the club, very hard to remember... one of them is "grinding... clothed only..." okay, thought it was a no-contact club, I even see girls in other clubs won't let a guy hand them a dollar, he has to put it down on the table first... the nuances are escaping me here.

    The next night another security guy. I tell him, I need to write down the rules, so I can remember. He says "what rules?" I say, well, like the first guy said, "grinding with clothes only" stuff like that.

    New security guy says, "no grinding. I don't allow it on MY shift!"

    oh...

    He says, "if I see it, I tell them to stop." so... That's all he does? Then how bad can it be?

    To quote Vinnie Babarino, "I'm so confused!"

    Also, I want to CYA if you know what I mean. I think the club should have this stuff in writing for the same reason. What kind of trouble can I get into if I'm misled? What if I do the wrong thing with the wrong guy?

    It's very upsetting, actually. This is not to mention all the rules surrounding VIP and other special areas of the club which I have also have no clue about. Why isn't it in writing somewhere?

    Also, they have not asked for any information that would enable them to give me an I-9 and the security guys are always too busy to sit down and really go thru the ins and outs with me. I can't find a way to contact the club owner....

    It feels really f'ing unprofessional and I'm feeling a bit annoyed. I'm going to try one more time tomorrow with the main booking guy who I've not yet met... but I'd like to know what questions to ask so I can get the proper answers. I feel like Alice in Wonderland where the rules change every time you turn a corner.

    Is this NORMAL? What kinds of risks am I facing here?

    Thanks. Kat



  2. #2
    God/dess kryssy's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Dayton, Ohio
    Posts
    2,563
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default Re:confused by (lack of) rules

    yes this club really should put the rules in writing. this would be so much easier for all those involved. maybe they dont want to so that theira$$ is covered if you are doing something wrong with the wrong person.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member bibacle's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    237
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default Re:confused by (lack of) rules

    kryssy is right. Many smaller companies in lots of different fields don't publish their rules in a manual. It allows them not only to make up new ones, but also to arbitrarily enforce them with one person while ignoring them with another.

    For example, if a club is in a state where there is a no-contact rule with alcohol, and the club posts it in a conspicuous place but ignores it, the club can disclaim any legal responsibility and blame it on the dancer.

    Or it can arbitrarily make up new rules for any given night.

    Just remember...even if they give you specific rules...they may not be enforced.

    Sleazy, yes. Confusing, absolutely. Common, unfortunately.

    I once worked at a small company where the owner just made up the rules to suit the situation, and nobody knew how vacations were counted, how many days off you could take, etc.
    "Those who dance, are considered crazy by those who can't hear the music."--George Carlin

  4. #4
    Veteran Member vanilla_dog's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    366
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts

    Default Re:confused by (lack of) rules

    Quote Originally Posted by katrin link=board=25;threadid=6429;start=msg70543#msg7054 3 date=1076020551

    It feels really f'ing unprofessional and I'm feeling a bit annoyed. I'm going to try one more time tomorrow with the main booking guy who I've not yet met... but I'd like to know what questions to ask so I can get the proper answers. I feel like Alice in Wonderland where the rules change every time you turn a corner.

    Is this NORMAL? What kinds of risks am I facing here?
    Can you say SHADY!?! Yes Katrin that is normal. LOL. Weee isn't it fun. It sounds like your club is being run by a bunch of thugs.

    The *too busy* to take care of real club business is a sign. The refusing to answer any of your questions is a sign. The fact that no one knows what the hell is going on is a sign.

    Anyway you can get a copy of the SOB rules for your club from your the local sherrifs office, liquor control agency or similar government body. Regarding risks, you take real risks working in a well run nudie bar, even more-so in a crappy one.

    If you are making good money there and you want to stay I would suggest to give it a rest on the rules thing. Ditto asking them to put stuff in writing. Find all that out on your own and do your best to abide by the rules on your own.

    And tell us how it goes...

    You get what you put up with

  5. #5
    Member katrin's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    51
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re:confused by (lack of) rules

    Vanilla Dog, love your avatar. And yes, I think I should get a rule list from the liquor control commission, I know there are certain issues that are going thru the courts in Oregon right now. The contact/no contact issue is most baffling to me.

    The main booking guy was more helpful, or at least I got told when I messed up. The other dancers have been helpful too. They have been, in general, nice to me so far, and not overly competitive.

    Risks, I guess I'll also find out from OLCC. Physically, I feel pretty safe with the security guys there, I just don't want to get into legal trouble. Can't afford it.

    I worked my first real shift last night, did ok. It's a busy club. I got some money stole because I didn't watch my purse carefully enough, so I learned a quick lesson. Later, another guy made up for it, and so I felt better.

    Agirl said someone had slipped something in her drink the night before and she barely made it home. Her arms were paralyzed. ugh. They couldn't identify the guy on the security camera, too dark. She said she never left her drink, just didn't watch it close enough.

    This is probably going to be a once a week gig for me until I can determine it's worthwhile to hire child care and/or cut out of the other job. For now, it's pocket money I desperately need.

    I lost the receipts for my first costumes/makeup, and I'm doing this for pocket change so I don't go hungry like I have been getting paid once a month at my other job.

    So maybe, as I'm getting my feet wet, this is all for the best. It's like, playing music on the street, or something.

    BTW I had a lot of fun, and felt like I got a work out too. It is such a great release after being locked up in an office for 3 years. So hopefully I can get it together, get my finances in order, and if the money is good, do this for a couple years.

    Kat






  6. #6
    God/dess Lena's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2002
    Location
    On a sweet muddy river.
    Posts
    6,399
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 78 Times in 43 Posts

    Default Re:confused by (lack of) rules

    Yes it's normal.

    Yes if you do the wrong thing you can get arrested.

    Lovely system, isn't it?

    Call the local District Attorney (anonymously) and ask him what the laws are.

    Lena



  7. #7
    God/dess Lexi's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Jerz
    Posts
    6,117
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re:confused by (lack of) rules

    Why dont you talk to the manager and ask him what the rules are? Ask him nicely and say that you are a little confused but want it hear it straight from him so that you dont get the wrong idea or do the wrong thing.
    I would be nervous, too, but thats what I would do. or maybe ask a few of the dancers, but thats not nearly as effective as some dancers break the rules anyway.
    Good luck

  8. #8
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    744
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re:confused by (lack of) rules

    The club should not put the rules in writing, as they become evidence.
    However, true management needs to take a stronger stand and lead
    not just administer by benign neglect. In my favorite club, the asst. manager is also one of the bouncers, but it is clear that he is the manager when he's in that role and all the other employees report to him when he is assistant manager. The club has consistent management (ownership) rules on each shift, not subject to
    highly variable bouncer interpretation. Yeah it's true that each bouncer has a slightly different enforcement and outlook but generally the rules are the same each night.

  9. #9
    Veteran Member vanilla_dog's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    366
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts

    Default Re:confused by (lack of) rules

    Having been born and raised in Oregon I can sympathize with your desire to have some cash! I'm glad it's working out for you. If you can actually have fun doing it you're in great shape and thanks for keeping us posted.

    Having danced recently in Oregon my understanding is that the most important thing is to not touch the guys while nude anywhere on their bodies. Just to be safe I don't touch any guy ever... when people are watching

    However, I have seen girls crawl all over guys while on stage in Bend at Stars Cabaret. But they don't overtly touch the guys while nude and doing private dances.
    You get what you put up with

  10. #10
    Featured Member ami's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2004
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    1,074
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts

    Default Re:confused by (lack of) rules

    there really are 3 sets of rules (at least, seems like your club has more). leagal, club, and individual girls. ex: when i danced in FL, the law said no touching, the club said (unofficially of course) what we dont see we dont care about, and most girls would give a lap dance, only a few would straddle. now in ny, the law says grinding is fine, club says guys like grinding do it, i say ok but i am still not stradeling.

    find out what the local laws are. if you think there might be a cop in your club dont do anything illeagl. to be safe dont do anything illeagl. watch the other girls if you can, they will be following thier interpritation of the clubs (or bouncers) rules. then just work up to a place where you are comfortable. just try not to get arrested.

  11. #11
    Member katrin's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    51
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re:confused by (lack of) rules

    Knowing cops, I am guessing an undercover cop would be the one pushing the dancers to break laws so he could bust them.

    The thing is, I really *want* to touch... a little bit. I mean, I don't want to give hand-jobs, don't get me wrong... I just really "got it" in another thread when Pumpkin Pie wrote about touch deprivation. Not to mention you often get to "see" everything on stage, so what's the extra motivation for selling a $20 table dance? (if there's no touching, I am considering saving the full-nude for a table dance, but last shift, every other dancer went full-nude on stage.)

    There is in fact a lot of benign touching in the club... but this girl has got to know, what is naked, what is clothed -- g-string? g-string w/ bra? Can touch him with a nipple if it's poking thru a hole in my shirt?

    I had a guy at the bar slipping $10 bills into my bra. Well, if my clothes are on, is that okay? I mean, I have a really hard time stopping that kind of action, as it does not feel disrespectful or molesting, in fact it feels damn good. I need that cash.

    Touch is a different kind of energy exchange than just the visual/verbal. I would love to touch just a little bit. Not grind or smother the guy, just add a little extra electricty at choice moments.

    In everything I do, I am all about boundaries. I need to know where the boundaries are, and trust me, I will stay within the boundaries, and work every inch within them. That is my creativity: I take what I got and work in all kinds of angles you'd never think of... always within the stated boundaries.

    I honestly don't know if my club has a manager. Don't think so. Security watches/books the dancers, bar is its own realm. There is an owner I have not met yet. It seems to me that the club wants to cover it's own ass, but my ass is my business. I think most of the dancers appreciate being left alone; I understand that. As a professional, I take it that this issue is between me and the state. So calling the DA is an excellent idea. I will.

  12. #12
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    296
    Thanks
    11
    Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts

    Default Re:confused by (lack of) rules

    Katrin, my advice is that you should be concerned about not breaking laws/codes because in case you don't know, the OLCC is always coming down on the local strip clubs and people DO get busted ALL THE TIME. Oregon is a no-contact state, so grinding is illegal even if clothed. Customers aren't even supposed to touch the dancers to tuck a tip into a bra/g-string/garter, etc. Also it's illegal for a dancer to touch her own genitals or breasts or even pretend to do so. The manager of my club just told me that she heard some dancer at Stars in Beaverton recently got fined twice in one night, once at 11:59 pm and once at 12:01 am (you can only get fined for an offense once a day, so the OLCC does sneaky shit like that) for touching her nipples, and each fine was $700! Obviously a lot of clubs don't enforce the rules or even tell the dancers that these are laws, but I think you're really taking a risk. Obviously it's up to you to decide, but I know that I personally wouldn't do it, especially since there are lots of clubs here that don't allow contact. Seriously, the OLCC is a major menace, and they do routinely go undercover in the clubs.

  13. #13
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    296
    Thanks
    11
    Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts

    Default Re:confused by (lack of) rules

    Also have you checked out Exotic Magazine yet? It tends to be mostly a bunch of offensive and pointless articles, but they do usually include some news about what's going on with the local sex industry and laws. It's a good way to find out when a law has changed or whatever.

  14. #14
    Member katrin's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    51
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re:confused by (lack of) rules

    Yes, I'm familiar with Exotic Magazine... I agree about the articles. Nothing like reading rants from misogynist writers that like to hang out in stripclubs.
    (some day I hope to put an 8-inch heel up Jim Goad's ass.)

    I know someone who used to be the editor of xmag.

    oh wow did you see this:
    http://tinyurl.com/32utk
    most of them are gone now!
    http://tinyurl.com/imiv

    never a dull moment in pdx.

    Kat

  15. #15
    Veteran Member vanilla_dog's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    366
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts

    Default Re:confused by (lack of) rules

    I would strongly advise against allowing anyone to tuck tips in your clothes in Oregon, especially when others can see. It's just not worth it. The OLCC people have no tolerance. They will cite you if they so much as observe anything they consider illegal and putting tips in costume is definitely illegal.

    What Anna said about OLCC is very true. If they decide to go after a club you work at it's not pretty and you never know when they are going to come to your club. I heard they MUST give at least one citation at every club they visit. I don't know if that's true or just club gossip.

    It's best to obey the very letter of the law. EX: don't touch your nipples-not even real quick- even if all the other girls are doing it (and I know they are). If you are going to sneak in a touch during a dance I think it's best to do it while wearing both tops and bottoms. At the very least have on bottoms.

    The thing is you will still make better money than you ever have before while being legal. You may not make as much as you possibly can but it's important to not have that mind set or you will end up doing everything. That said, I like to touch too but I keep it to a minimum.

    Remember, the charges stay on your record for a long time and they are of a sexual nature and no one wants a sex crime on their resume'
    You get what you put up with

  16. #16
    Featured Member ami's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2004
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    1,074
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts

    Default Re:confused by (lack of) rules

    Quote Originally Posted by vanilla_dog link=board=25;threadid=6429;start=msg72401#msg7240 1 date=1076489924
    Remember, the charges stay on your record for a long time and they are of a sexual nature and no one wants a sex crime on their resume'
    I know a girl who wanted to teach, she cant now.

  17. #17
    Veteran Member myssi's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    341
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default Re: confused by (lack of) rules

    The idiotic thing is that the club itself can be shut down if the people working there don't obey
    the law... yet the club does not to inform people about what the law says.
    If even had other dancers claim something was illegal when they really had no idea at
    all about what the law actually was.... they just wanted to get me into some trouble.
    Know your rights/responsibilities. If the club won't tell you, research it for yourself.
    Club rules, however, are another matter. They must be in writing or they are subject
    to the manager's daily whims. A club should be happy to have guidelines. Evidence of
    that is a good thing. Shows how foolish club management can be if they'd risk being
    shut down rather than giving their people guidence.

  18. #18
    242_fair
    Guest

    Default Re: confused by (lack of) rules

    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaPDX
    Katrin, my advice is that you should be concerned about not breaking laws/codes because in case you don't know, the OLCC is always coming down on the local strip clubs and people DO get busted ALL THE TIME. Oregon is a no-contact state, so grinding is illegal even if clothed. Customers aren't even supposed to touch the dancers to tuck a tip into a bra/g-string/garter, etc. Also it's illegal for a dancer to touch her own genitals or breasts or even pretend to do so. The manager of my club just told me that she heard some dancer at Stars in Beaverton recently got fined twice in one night, once at 11:59 pm and once at 12:01 am (you can only get fined for an offense once a day, so the OLCC does sneaky shit like that) for touching her nipples, and each fine was $700! Obviously a lot of clubs don't enforce the rules or even tell the dancers that these are laws, but I think you're really taking a risk. Obviously it's up to you to decide, but I know that I personally wouldn't do it, especially since there are lots of clubs here that don't allow contact. Seriously, the OLCC is a major menace, and they do routinely go undercover in the clubs.
    This is good advice. DONT rely on 'RULES" of the club. Your only rules of concern are those which are LAWS in your JURISTICTION. The club doesn't care if you break the law. You should inform yourself, that's your responsibility.

  19. #19
    Member dakota1's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2005
    Location
    ohio
    Posts
    56
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: confused by (lack of) rules

    i was at a club today filling out paper work to dance, and i asked for a copy of the rules. they looked at me like i was from the moon. i never did get my copy....

Similar Threads

  1. Confused about MFC rules
    By innes in forum Camming Connection
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-12-2011, 08:21 AM
  2. less money from stripping due to lack of customers or lack of them buying shows
    By catseyes in forum Stripping (was Stripping General)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-06-2010, 02:57 PM
  3. lack of daylight
    By Mare in forum Stripping (was Stripping General)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-09-2004, 11:52 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •