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Thread: a little difference, here and there

  1. #1
    Jay Zeno
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    Default a little difference, here and there

    For a variety of reasons, my visiting strip clubs has fallen way off, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Truthfully, one of the reasons has been the things I've heard on this board.

    I work with women in the office. I deal with women clients. I interact with women colleagues. I party with women friends and neighbors. I have normal family relationships with women and girls in my family. They don't express dislike for me, just the opposite. And I like them. We all drink, play, dance, work, and meet together on great terms. And the lady of my house and I enjoy a happy love life.

    Then I come here, a place where I really enjoy, and among the truly positive things that I like about this forum, I hear about abusive men, women-hating men, men-hating women, not trusting each other, exploiting each other, men rooting around to get whatever they can, and women who hate men's guts while playing up to them for money.

    These two worlds are so completely diverse for me that it's freaky. And frankly, the world where people play nice together is a lot healthier than the one which has so much bad behavior. And it's healthier for me, too.

    I also understand that there's plenty of healthier attitudes with dancers and customers who interact on a good level and to their mutual benefit. But I'm involved with a few other professional forums and other get-togethers, and nowhere else do I hear this level of gender animosity.

    No reply necessary, really. I'm just expressing my dismay, perhaps, at some of the feelings in this world versus the world out there that I know.

  2. #2
    Featured Member polecat's Avatar
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    Default Re:a little difference, here and there

    No reply is necessary, but I feel one is warranted.

    Well Jay- my first stripclub experience was to work part-time in one for a few months. Really never had any desire to go inside one prior (or for 9 years after) as it seemed basically to be home to things I really had no liking for- men in their absolute worst behavior, and women dealing with it and kissing their asses as long as the $20's were rolling in. Seemed like a perfect match for the dysfunctional. lol. Pretty much an overall loathesome experience to just be in one.

    Well, last year- your typical limo/bachelor party thing across a bunch of stripclubs, after being annoyed and sickened by the ruthless behavior of my collegues and ass kissing by the dancers, I finally got to see what I wanted to see all night- a dancer verbally put one of them in his place and left him standing there like a stunned carp. She also never hustled me once while I was overseeing the buffoon-squad. Hell, I even clumsily bumped into her a few times prior and she was pleasant after my appologies. I've walked by her club probably 3-4 times a week for the past 5 years as it's right by the garage where I park my car before hitting the various music and dance clubs.. never once ventured in and she's been there that whole time.

    Turns out she has a wicked sense of humor, impeccable fashion sense, great for giving/receiving advice, world traveled, engineer degreed, early 30's woman. I enjoy stopping in, dealing with the environmental loathing until she's free to yield a break to just catch up on her tales of buffoonery, restaurant and show tips, vacation spots (we've been to the same places and have a similar "to-do" list) and what not.. then tip, salute and go off to my normal city entertainment as usual. I've met some of her friends, also been out with a few of them to other strip clubs to heckle others. Overall, a great time to be had and I consider them all friends. When I meet women in the dance/music clubs, I've got a friendly and comfortable place to take them for a little extra fun if their into that sort of thing as well.

    I guess what this boils down to is- my original 10% rule. Of all things, only 10% are exceptional.. this goes for strippers, strip clubs and patrons. It's really easy to get caught up in the other 90%, but Jay- guys like you that identify it and loathe it are really the kinds that need to get in the clubs and infect a little bit of the goodness that's missing. It's almost a fitting, karmic irony that 90% of the patrons will only see a fake smile behind a set of hooters and maybe be stupid enough to lay down a week's payroll for a handjob while totally being totally deprived of what a few of the dancers really have to offer, which is surely priceless.

    I hope that all makes sense.. more blunt than I'd hoped for and I'm sure it will offend some. But oh well.
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

  3. #3
    God/dess velvet's Avatar
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    Default Re:a little difference, here and there

    well no other board you are involved with would probley have the guts to say how they do or dont feel about gender. we as dancers are possibly a little more open and brash in our opinions with each other. in "normal" society they might think it's rude therefore keeping it to themselves.... just a thought.
    As quoted by Luckyone:
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    God/dess erotictonic's Avatar
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    Default Re:a little difference, here and there

    Also, like Polecat said, strip clubs attract people with low moral standards. Not only these people we are bombarded with, but also the milkman who pretends to be the nice guy on Monday morning when he delivers Mrs. Smith's milk. That night when he comes to the sc, he grabs me on the a**. There are where your bad feelings come in. Now, you can look at nice guys during the day, and wonder if they are one of the grabbers. Do you think their wives know? No, it's not healthy, but it is real. Yes the world is full of bad behavior. It's rampant in regular bars too, Jay. These people size you up, and they change their behavior to suit you. They don't show you their bad sides. It's us, who know the bad sides, that distrust and hate. Jay, I wish you wouldn't stop going to sc. You are one of the more mature, well-adjusted men that make our jobs more pleasant.

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    Veteran Member SaraNLA's Avatar
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    Default Re:a little difference, here and there

    This post reminded me:

    One time I was working in Vegas and a customer had spent a lot of money on me. And then he said, "You've really got to get out of here and start working in the 'real world'."

    I said, "Oh, is it really so much better out there?"

    He paused for a moment and thought. Then he said, "No."

    For some reason you were drawn to the SC environment but what is even more interesting is that you came to this board. Maybe there's a reason for it. There are definitely healthier work environments than SCs, but many of the patrons come from the 'healthier work environments'. So, although this board may look at the darker side of people (though I don't think it's really THAT much) - the people it adds up to are just about anyone you know.

    Since you are kind to others, I'd say you have a lot to feel great about.
    Let your indulgence set me free. - Shakespeare

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    Banned Madcap's Avatar
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    Default Re:a little difference, here and there

    I came here for the hot chicks.

    *Shallow*

  7. #7
    God/dess erotictonic's Avatar
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    Default Re:a little difference, here and there

    *shallow* that just reminds me that when me and my ex broke up, his friends brought up times that I had been rejected in sc. Then they started telling him all the things that were wrong with my looks, I mean Really picky things. And he came back and brought all these things up and said his gf looked better. Talk about shallow, this is someone I had spent 9 yrs. with. They still rate girls on a scale of 1-10. It has nothing to do with loyalty or love with them, it's where they rate on the scale. If someone comes along that rates higher than their gf, they dump her. They wonder why I labeled them shallow. lol. This is a common sc patron. And these are also the guys that end up with 2s because after they've treated so many women badly, thats all that will have them.

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    God/dess Lena's Avatar
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    Default Re:a little difference, here and there

    Jason,

    You're right. Strip clubs are often very unhealthy places. But they're also exactly what you make them.

    Lena



  9. #9
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re:a little difference, here and there

    Well, sorry for the grumbling there. Let me answer these, and perhaps this "whine festival" of mine can come to a close.



    :::::::::>(polecat) Jay- guys like you that identify it and loathe it are really the kinds that need to get in the clubs and infect a little bit of the goodness that's missing. It's almost a fitting, karmic irony that 90% of the patrons will only see a fake smile behind a set of hooters and maybe be stupid enough to lay down a week's payroll for a handjob while totally being totally deprived of what a few of the dancers really have to offer, which is surely priceless.

    I understand what you're saying. I can usually tell whether someone's fake-smiling or really enjoying themselves. Of course, when you're first approached, it's all fake, because that's just courtesy and sales approach. But as you talk a bit (but not too much), you can tell personalities. I've met wonderful women in strip clubs whom I'm still friends with.


    ::::::::>(velvet) well no other board you are involved with would probley have the guts to say how they do or dont feel about gender. we as dancers are possibly a little more open and brash in our opinions with each other. in "normal" society they might think it's rude therefore keeping it to themselves.... just a thought.

    I appreciate that, but in "my" world, gender issues would be an undercurrent rather than a hot topic. The test is whether someone performs - as a worker, as a client, as a friend, as a neighbor, as a family member. A woman might say, "He's not giving me respect, and I think there's gender involved," and the reaction of the women and men who read that are to give her advice for dealing with the gender issue.

    If there's rampant gender hatred going on where I live and work and play, then either these people are the best actors in the world to keep me from seeing it or I'm the stupidest person in the world to not see it.


    ::::::::::>(erotictonic) It's rampant in regular bars too, Jay. These people size you up, and they change their behavior to suit you. They don't show you their bad sides. It's us, who know the bad sides, that distrust and hate. Jay, I wish you wouldn't stop going to sc. You are one of the more mature, well-adjusted men that make our jobs more pleasant.

    I don't really go to bars, unless it's with my nice friends for a couple brews. That's interesting, and I have no way to know otherwise, so I believe you. And I do appreciate the comment and the wish, ET.


    ::::::::::::>(Sara)For some reason you were drawn to the SC environment but what is even more interesting is that you came to this board. Maybe there's a reason for it.

    Well, not to drumbeat my particular psychology, but I was taken to one by a friend (I never would've gone the first time on my own) and was quite taken with the culture. It addressed issues. I did some Internet searching because it was interesting. So I came to these boards. Now I've had my issues addressed quite nicely (which probably led to this short thread: ). Now I'd like to visit again occasionally for fun, not for issues.


    ::::::::::::>(erotictonic)They still rate girls on a scale of 1-10.

    Not that it matters, but I don't rate. There's been ratings on every dancer board I've been to (she's an 8.5. I'm a 7.5). But I haven't participated in them. I just don't see it that way and can't make the judgment.


    :::::::::::>(Lena)Jason,
    You're right. Strip clubs are often very unhealthy places. But they're also exactly what you make them.
    Lena


    Thank you sincerely, Lena. That's the story of the world, isn't it? I can also be grateful for the fact that I apparently live, work, and play in such healthy places.

    Thanks, all.

  10. #10
    Featured Member Prester_John's Avatar
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    Default Re:a little difference, here and there

    Jason - perhaps I am a touch more cynical about the way of the world, because I have been working in a same general milieu as the dancers - bartending. I have come to the conclusion that for every woman in this world who has a despicable character, there are nine men to match her.

    Because of that, I tend to side with women in intergender issues (but not always). This isn't caused by a belief that "I am a guy and I would like to curry favor with women" (which supposedly would benefit me in dating areas). It’s because I have a rather well developed sense of justice, and I believe very highly in the intrinsic benefits and necessity for doing the right thing. In areas of Man-woman right versus wrong, sadly my experience is that mostly (but NOT always) men are wrong, due to their tendencies to do whatever they can to fulfill their selfish urges and needs at the cold hearted expense of whatever woman they either see and want, or are already involved with.

    I do NOT see women overbearingly hit on men on a regular basis. I do NOT see on a regular basis women send over drinks to a man, then not leave them alone. I do NOT hear on a regular basis women gloat about the men or man they bagged, and how they will use them and toss aside. I do NOT hear on a regular basis women talk about another man at the bar and how they either will get them tonight, or if they do not then the man is a bitch or gay. Have I heard this stuff from women in my 12+ years behind the bar? Yes I have. I absolutely have seen and heard this sort of thing from women. It disgusts me when I hear it - BUT, it is a relatively rare thing from women, at least in MY experiences.

    On the other hand, I DO see and hear this crap from MEN on a Regular Basis. I wish that were not so, but its true. It literally happens every week. Bars allow alcohol to flow freely and a person’s true nature comes out because of this (I have a bartender friend who calls beer “truth serum”). Some women do get loosened up to enact deplorable behavior. A LOT of men do this. A Lot.

    It has made me cynical, I agree, maybe even to a fault. When I read about the negative gender issues on this board, I shake my head, believing that it’s more likely that the problem truly lies in the man (or men) involved then in the woman (or women) involved. You shake your head at the disparity of the world that you know and live in and the world you read about here. It’s possible that the world you live in has the social barriers to bad behavior still up that the world talked about on Stripperweb doesn’t have. They are both components of the same world.

    I have always tried to comport myself in a SC with respect, decency and politeness, because that’s character traits I want to engender in myself at all times - in or out of a SC. More then once that has brought thanks from a dancer, sometimes with the words "you have been the only decent guy tonight". That little admission proves in my mind that a majority of men act in a deplorable manner, and a lot dancer "bitching" about men is warranted.

    This seems to be the way of the world at the moment, at least from my (and I am only stating MY) perspective. There are women in this world that cause problems and need to change to make a healthier world. There are more men than women that need to do this as well.

    PS - As I have stated before, I identify with your waning SC desires, because I have shared it too. If I never go to another one again, and I never read or post anything on this board every again, I will still firmly believe that most guys act like jerks, and women will bear the brunt of that.

  11. #11
    Banned Madcap's Avatar
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    Default Re:a little difference, here and there

    Sometimes i'll have the Bartender give a woman my coat along with a note saying "What are you doing with my coat? I'm coming over to get it back!"



    I try to be 'cute' when I hit on a woman. And when she's not interested (Imagine that!) I just deal with it. If one won't kiss me someone else will.

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    God/dess erotictonic's Avatar
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    Default Re:a little difference, here and there

    I have definitely acted out when loosened up, toward people that have been rude to me. I especially acted out against my ex. I would call it deplorable behavior. However, I had to be provoked. One of my ex'es friends was making fun of me and I threw about 2 swallows of beer on him. Then, a bar owner was walking around telling the customers that my boyfriend's band sucked. I listened to that all night. Then at the end of the night, he was going to pay them $50 and he was holding it back, acting like a real a**, and I snatched it out of his hand. He called me a b****, and I poured an 18 ounce beer over his head. Sometimes women act out because they hate the way they have been treated.

    Men act out because they are pigs at heart.

    I wish there were more men like you around, John.

  13. #13
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re:a little difference, here and there

    PJ, I don't disagree with you. I was feeling out of sorts because what I see expressed here is so out of synch with the observations and experiences in my normal life.

    My attitude, whether as an employee, an employer, on a date, or raising kids is that in order to get respect, you show respect. It doesn't always hold true, but it works better than anything else I've seen.

    Thanks, all.

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    Banned Madcap's Avatar
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    Default Re:a little difference, here and there

    Oink, Oink...

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    God/dess erotictonic's Avatar
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    Default Re:a little difference, here and there

    It is not necessarily rating on a scale of 1 to 10 that bothers me. I don't mind it. I mean it is going to happen in a sc setting. It is making that a valid point for leaving someone you have been with for 9 yrs. Like, oh I can get better looking women. To me it just cheapens the time I have spent trying to make things right in a relationship. All that work, and I am reduced to a f****** number.

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    Banned Madcap's Avatar
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    Default Re:a little difference, here and there

    Find another BF. Have you ever thought that maybe you just have shit taste in men? Drop the bad boys and go for a man with some drive. Bad boys end up managers at McDonalds.

  17. #17
    God/dess erotictonic's Avatar
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    Default Re:a little difference, here and there

    Yea I know. I'm not dating right now. I've realized how to spot them , and I won't be dating any more abusers.

  18. #18
    Banned Madcap's Avatar
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    Default Re:a little difference, here and there

    Good.

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