Wow..San Francisco is considering legalizing Gay marriages. the city already recognizes civil unions. This will be an excellent step in equality for the Gay Community..What are your views ??





Wow..San Francisco is considering legalizing Gay marriages. the city already recognizes civil unions. This will be an excellent step in equality for the Gay Community..What are your views ??
My new love...is me !
Even the greatest authority does not, ultimately, know you as you know yourself.
Jhuka
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Maya Angelou




Hooray for San Francisco!
My views? This is supposed to be a free country, I feel compelled to stay out of other people's bedrooms (unless invited, but that's a whole other storyus
and out of their marriage and/or relationships. It's not my business on who marries who and if two people are truly in love, why should anyone stand in the way of a legal union?





I give the City a![]()
I agree government should get out of the bedrooms.
Love is love![]()
My new love...is me !
Even the greatest authority does not, ultimately, know you as you know yourself.
Jhuka
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Maya Angelou
AWESOME!!!!
nikkid- invites are always nice, even if they are married ... (dont know how many married women I have slept with)





That damn Bush !!
Its very important for all of us to vote. However in this case it really didn't do any good ( I still believe the election was fixed )
I think as long as the city recogizes the marriage you will at least have local benefits.
Its like Berkeley,Ca., marijauna is legal within the city limits. And there are many local laws that have been enforced when they come up against Federal laws.
My new love...is me !
Even the greatest authority does not, ultimately, know you as you know yourself.
Jhuka
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Maya Angelou




I'm all for it, but I'll believe it when I see it.
San Francisco can always draw a good deal of media attention for things, but can rarely follow through and get long-standing results as the pencil pushers in Sacramento work to overturn anything local counties can put into place.
There is also a massive effort towards decrimininalization of prostitution to give equal legal representation to sex workers- i.e. sex workers that have been victims of violence should have the right to report their perpetrators to authorities without fear of self-incriminalization.. this is being worked on with a known bitter Sacramento opposition.
Hell, even things put on the ballot and won with overwhelming voter majority have been tossed out by Sacramento (see several of the cannibus grower's/medicial marijuana laws put into place).
So I'll believe it when I see it. This will be initiative #2,107 that has gotten positive media attention and local support- but will likely end up like the rest and shot down by the time Sacramento gets their hands on it.
It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.
I feel that each and every large scale public attempt to give equal rights to homosexuals is a step forward as it becomes harder and harder for people to deny that a large part of our country supports this
also if anyone who is interested in this issue has missed it- there has been some interesting discussion lately on the same sex marriage poll thread. I bring this up because it's the first time I have had anyone offer up non religous arguements and I thought others might might to take a read





Jim..I have read a few of those threads..I was looking more of a personal opion/view on the events at hand.
My new love...is me !
Even the greatest authority does not, ultimately, know you as you know yourself.
Jhuka
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Maya Angelou





Polecat..I agree with what you are saying..we will just have to be very active and wait to see what the out come is
My new love...is me !
Even the greatest authority does not, ultimately, know you as you know yourself.
Jhuka
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Maya Angelou
Hurrah! I am uber glad that San Francisco is taking a giant step for our country, perhaps aiding us in realizing that "seperate but equal" never has, and never will, work. If people are so scared about keeping the sancity of marriage, then perhaps they should target the drive-thru chappels in Vegas next, oro something. Seriously, why should the concept of marriage matter so long as it's consentual and adult? Kudos for Frisco!!!![]()
Pies- para qué los quiero, Si tengo alas para volar?... Feet what do I want them for, If I have wings to fly? - Frida Kahlo





Breaking news..
I just heard on our local news that Gay marriages might take place as early as Valentine's Day !!
San Francisco you rock !!
![]()
Damn too bad I don't have aright now
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My new love...is me !
Even the greatest authority does not, ultimately, know you as you know yourself.
Jhuka
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Maya Angelou





San Francisco Officials Marry Gay Couple
13 minutes ago Add Top Stories - AP to My Yahoo!
By LISA LEFF, Associated Press Writer
SAN FRANCISCO - In a bold political and legal challenge to California law, city authorities officiated at the marriage of a lesbian couple Thursday and said they will issue more gay marriage licenses.
AP Photo
AP Photo
Slideshow: Same-Sex Marriage Issues
Meanwhile in Massachusetts, legislative leaders met Thursday to try to find words that would ban gay marriage but legalize civil unions, expressing optimism as they reconvened their constitutional convention.
The act of civil disobedience in San Francisco was coordinated by Mayor Gavin Newsom and top city officials and was intended to beat a conservative group to the punch.
The group, Campaign for California Families, had planned to go to court on Friday to get an injunction preventing the city from issuing marriage licenses to gay couples.
Longtime lesbian activists Phyllis Lyon, 79, and Del Martin, 83, were hurriedly issued a license and were married just before noon by City Assessor Mabel Teng in a closed-door civil ceremony at City Hall, mayor's spokesman Peter Ragone said. The two have been a couple for 51 years.
Ragone said that beginning at noon, officials would begin issuing marriage licenses to any gay couples applying for one. One lesbian couple had already lined up outside City Hall, one of the women wearing a white wedding dress.
Lyon and Martin said after the brief ceremony that they were going home to rest and did not plan anything to celebrate. The couple seemed proud of what they had done.
"Why shouldn't we" be able to marry? Lyon asked.
Thursday's marriage runs counter to a ballot measure California voters approved in 2000 that defines marriage as a union between a man and a woman.
No state legally sanctions gay marriage, though Massachusetts could become the first this spring. The Massachusetts high court has ruled that gays are entitled under the state constitution to marry.
State lawmakers later passed a domestic partner law that, when it goes into effect in 2005, will offer the most generous protections to gays outside Vermont.
Mayor Newsom was not present for the wedding Thursday. The two official witnesses were Kate Kendell, director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights and former city official Roberta Achtenberg.
The Campaign for California Families did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
In Massachusetts, leaders said they hoped to finally reach an agreement after two other versions of a proposed constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage were narrowly defeated during the much-anticipated convention's opening day Wednesday.
"Things break down in this building by the minute, but it's going to be interesting," said Senate Minority Leader Brian Lees, a Republican. "I'm cautiously optimistic."
Massachusetts was thrust into the epicenter of the contentious social political, religious and legal debate over gay marriages in November when the state's Supreme Judicial Court ruled 4-3 that it was unconstitutional to ban gay couples from marrying, a decision that was reaffirmed last week.
"We're talking about a wide, wide variety of options and potential amendments," said House Speaker Thomas Finneran, an ardent opponent of gay marriage. "Nobody's in a position, really, to insist on anything other than good faith efforts on all sides. We're open to all sorts of ideas."
Any constitutional amendment would have to get 101 votes in the constitutional convention — which is a joint session of the state House and Senate. It would have to get 101 votes again in the 2005-06 legislative session, and would then need the approval of voters in November 2006.
My new love...is me !
Even the greatest authority does not, ultimately, know you as you know yourself.
Jhuka
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Maya Angelou
ok here's what I don't get - why do some support legal unions but not marriage ???Originally Posted by Farrah_Holiday link=board=1;threadid=6539;start=msg73040#msg73040 date=1076620868





I think it has to do with religious views and control issues.
There really is no difference between the 2 on paper.
So what else could it be ??
My new love...is me !
Even the greatest authority does not, ultimately, know you as you know yourself.
Jhuka
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Maya Angelou





It actually has more to do with financial issues for goverment and employers. People joined in civil union are NOT entitled to spousal benefits such as filing joint tax returns and paying less taxes, health and life insurance coverage for dependents, social security survivor benefits, survivor pension benefits etc. Married people are.
The government, insurance companies, and employers have calculated their tax rates, insurance rates, and pay rates based on the statistical averages of how many people are single versus how many people are married, with singles being effectively charged more. The Social Security fund, insurance company reserve funds, employer pension funds etc. have all collected money over the years based on having to pay benefits to X percent of married people and their surviving spouses versus Y percent of single people with no survivor benefits.
If all of a sudden the number of single people drops significantly and the number of married people increases significantly, all of these funds will find themselves with insufficient resources to pay for the increased benefits that the large number of gay married people suddenly become eligible for. To make matters worse, the amount of money going into these Social Security, insurance and pension funds will be reduced as the number of people paying the higher single rates goes down. The only way to rebalance the finances will be to suddenly increase married tax rates for ALL married people, and to either cut employee insurance and retirement benefits to ALL married people, to increase the amount charged per week for ALL married person's insurance and retirement benefits, or to reduce paychecks/not give pay raises to ALL married people.
This would certainly affect the finances/coverage/benefits/paychecks of a very large number of straight married couples, which is an extremely dangerous thing to do in an election year. Fortunately for the politicians, few people outside of government or big business are putting 2 and 2 together to realize that gay marriages will create large new costs for which straight people will wind up footing the bill.
Isnt it so damn funny how they say that the church is seperate from the state, but when it comes to gay marriages, RELIGION comes into play? Hmmmm
If peope want to get married, regardless of sex, then they should be able to do so. Who cares what sex? I am for San Fransisco and think this is a great change.![]()





Ahh that does make sense..Leave it to you to enlighten us MelonieOriginally Posted by Melonie link=board=1;threadid=6539;start=msg73081#msg73081 date=1076625802
My new love...is me !
Even the greatest authority does not, ultimately, know you as you know yourself.
Jhuka
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Maya Angelou





I agree Lexi..
My new love...is me !
Even the greatest authority does not, ultimately, know you as you know yourself.
Jhuka
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Maya Angelou




This is why any kind of proposed resolutions need to be accompanied by comprehensive infrastructure changes, as well as ways to approach additional costs. This is how Sacramento always manages to shoot down ill-thought proposals- even after the fact. California is probably the only state that can let total and utter tomfoolery come to full fruition with after-the-fact consequences causing reversal.Originally Posted by Melonie link=board=1;threadid=6539;start=msg73081#msg73081 date=1076625802
Personally, I think all costs associated with gay marriage could easily be offset through creating a federally funded and syndicated reality show based on the assured future of such events, titled "Homosexual Divorce Court" Ratings would be through the roof as the country is glued to their TV sets to hear about how things soured between Raphael and Felipe when Raphael had an affair with the poolboy.. or when the honeymoon is over between Irma and Gwendolyn as Gwen confesses a strange attraction to George Clooney.
It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.





San Francisco carries out first US gay marriage
Thu Feb 12, 5:13 PM ET Add U.S. National - AFP to My Yahoo!
SAN FRANCISCO (AFP) - The freewheeling US city of San Francisco made history by granting the first ever same-sex marriage licenses to an elderly lesbian couple as part of a challenge to a ban on gay marriage.
AFP/Getty Images/File Photo
Reuters
Slideshow: Same-Sex Marriage Issues
Del Martin, 83, and Phyllis Lyon, 79, said "I do" at the city hall after Mayor Gavin Newsom ordered officials to wed gay couples and issue marriage licenses in an act of civil disobedience against a state law that bars same-sex marriages.
"We got married," said one of the women, who have been together for around 50 years.
City official Mabel Teng officiated over the ceremony for Martin and Lyon, exchanging the traditional phrase of "husband and wife" for "spouse for life."
Instead of calling them "bride" and "groom", the wedding licence application listed the couple as "1st applicant" and "2nd applicant."
"This is a very significant day for Del and Phyllis and for all of us witnessing this historic ceremony," Teng said before the ceremony, carried out as the issue of same sex marriages makes headlines across America.
Other couples were lining up behind Martin and Lyon to take their vows after Newsom, who took charge of the liberal city in December, announced he would defy state law and marry gay couples in a bid to fight discrimination.
But major legal challenges to the decision by city authorities were expected, officials conceded.
The decision to challenge marriage laws was taken late Wednesday, the San Francisco Chronicle said, and city workers spent Thursday morning altering official marriage forms to reflect the change.
Officials were racing to issue official marriage reflect before the expected legal challenges and injunctions are filed to prevent more gay weddings, the paper said.
San Francisco is home to one of the largest US gay communities. The Castro area of the West coast city was seen as the hub of gay activism in the 1960s and 70s.
In the eastern state of Massachusetts, lawmakers struggled meanwhile to find a way out of a legal quagmire surrounding the hugely divisive issue of gay marriage following a landmark court decision in November that banning same-sex marriage was unconstitutional.
But lawmakers met in Boston to consider re-writing the state constitution to restrict marriage to the union of one man and one woman.
February 12 has been declared National Freedom to Marry Day by gay-rights groups which are encouraging same-sex couples nationwide to go to courthouses and apply for marriage reflect on Thursday.
In the Los Angeles-area city of Beverly Hills, officials refused two gay couples seeking to formalize their unions. The couples were denied marriage reflect prompting a media-savvy attorney to announce she would sue to challenge the ban on gay marriages in California.
Reverend Troy Perry and his partner Phillip Ray DeBlieck, along with lesbian rights activist Robin Tyle and her partner Diane Olson, were denied marriage reflect by officials who gave them fliers detailing California's same-sex marriage ban.
"We're not going to the back of the bus. We're not not getting on the bus, we're not sitting at the lunch counter, we're just not taking civil union, domestic partnership, we're just not taking it anymore," Tyler said.
Publicity-friendly lawyer Gloria Allred said she would challenge the ban to the California Supreme Court.
"It's time to make a legal challenge," she said. "And so we will be filing the lawsuit. There are no appellate cases in California on this issue, and so we think it's long overdue and we're going to fight that fight now."
My new love...is me !
Even the greatest authority does not, ultimately, know you as you know yourself.
Jhuka
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Maya Angelou





Keyword being : discrimination
My new love...is me !
Even the greatest authority does not, ultimately, know you as you know yourself.
Jhuka
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Maya Angelou





Gay Marriage Opponents File Suit in S.F.
2 hours ago Listen to Audio
By LISA LEFF, Associated Press Writer
SAN FRANCISCO - Accusing the mayor of trampling the law, conservative groups went to court Friday to stop San Francisco from issuing same-sex marriage licenses as hundreds more gay couples rushed to tie the knot before the opportunity slipped away.
A judge convened a hearing in the afternoon on whether to block the marriages, which began Thursday with Mayor Gavin Newsom's blessing.
"Apparently, Mayor Newsom felt he's above the law and like a dictator, could simply dictate what the law should be," said Richard Ackerman, an attorney for the Campaign for California Families.
All day long, the marble passages beneath City Hall's ornate gold dome echoed with applause as one couple after another got hitched, promising to be spouses for life."
The weddings appeared likely to continue through the long holiday weekend despite the court action.
While it remains unclear what practical value the marriage licenses will carry, their symbolism was evident.
Gays and lesbians emboldened by San Francisco's move and by the debate over gay marriage in Massachusetts went to courthouses around the nation Thursday and Friday to demand their own marriage licenses. They were quickly turned away, since every state bans gay marriage.
In San Francisco, the county clerk issued hundreds of licenses to same-sex couples, many of whom then promptly got married in City Hall. The building was to remain open for more marriages Saturday in observance of Valentine's Day.
"I'm not interested as a mayor in moving forward with a separate but unequal process for people to engage in marriages," Newsom said on ABC's "Good Morning America." "The people of this city and certainly around the state are feeling that separate but unequal doesn't make sense."
San Francisco appears to be the first city in the nation to officially support same-sex marriage licenses.
Hundreds of gay couples began lining up at 4 a.m. Friday, many of them rushing into town from other cities to get married before the courts could step in.
Mikko Alanne, 31, and his partner, Ari Solomon, 27, drove in overnight from West Hollywood, a six-hour trip. "This is the first step towards the state recognizing gay marriage," Allane said. Even though "we won't be recognized outside San Francisco, we are very excited."
The conservative groups wanted a Superior Court judge to order the county clerk not to issue any more licenses to same-sex couples, and to void any licenses already granted.
California law, as approved by the voters in 2000, defines marriage as a union of a man and a woman.
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and other state officials have avoided comment, but Attorney General Bill Lockyer's spokeswoman did note that California's constitution provides broader equal-protection rights than other states.
The San Francisco ceremonies occurred as Massachusetts lawmakers ended in a stalemate after two days of impassioned debate. They are considering a ban on gay marriage in response to a ruling by the state's high court that said same-sex couples have the right to marry. The Legislature will reconvene March 11.
Around the country, other gay couples were turned away by court clerks as Thursday's "National Freedom to Marry Day" protests continued into Friday. The protests have been held every Feb. 12 since 1998.
In Richmond, Va., eight couples clutching pink "bride" and blue "groom" applications were denied licenses as legislators three blocks away debated a bill affirming Virginia's ban on same-sex marriages.
"It's a heartbreaker to be rejected," said Mary Gay Hutcherson, who was accompanied by her partner of 10 years, Yolanda Farnum. "But it was empowering. I think we deserve a license from the state of Virginia. And I think someday we will get one."
They also protested in Ohio, where Gov. Bob Taft signed a law last week making it the 38th state to officially bar recognition of gay marriages and the second to deny benefits such as health insurance coverage to unmarried employees' partners. The Ohio law is considered one of the most far-reaching bans in the country.
"It's so easy for people who have something to tell others they can't have it," said Christopher Hoffman, who was turned away in Columbus with his partner of 16 months, Joshua Jacob Wiley. "We don't want to be `domestic partners.' We want to be husbands."
Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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My new love...is me !
Even the greatest authority does not, ultimately, know you as you know yourself.
Jhuka
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Maya Angelou





Would those after-the-fact consequences you're referring to mean the 36 BILLION dollar California state budget deficit ? That's one debt that the bankers aren't going let Schwarzenegger terminate.California is probably the only state that can let total and utter tomfoolery come to full fruition with after-the-fact consequences causing reversal.
I actually hope that the city of San Francisco goes ahead with this! By monday every recently married gay city employee will start filing for dependent health, insurance and retirement benefits for their newly acquired "spouse". Given that SF is about 30% gay to start with, that should add another few hundred million dollars to the city's budget deficit. Next year this will result in large property tax increases to cover the extra costs, which will drive yet more businesses out of San Francisco. But hey look at the bright side, if San Francisco strip club customers have less money to spend the price of a blow job in SF club VIP rooms will probably drop below $100 !
At least the state of Ohio has figured out the financial 'pandora's box' that gay marriage will open, and has specifically denied dependent benefit coverage to the 'partners' of gay employees.
I am absolutely for Gay marriages. Hell, they live together for years, recognize eachother as spouses, etc... Some have even adopted children together. Why shouldn't they be able to marry? I'm all for it. Hopefully with San Francisco doing it, the rest of the nation will follow suit. Of course, closer to me, in Mass, they are now trying to ban same-sex marriages, but so far, they've been unsuccessful. Good!Originally Posted by Farrah_Holiday link=board=1;threadid=6539;start=msg72386#msg72386 date=1076483153
:wink:





665 Gay Marriages Take Place in S.F.
38 minutes ago
By LISA LEFF, Associated Press Writer
SAN FRANCISCO - Despite accusations that the mayor is riding roughshod over the law, conservative groups failed to stop San Francisco from issuing same-sex marriage licenses Friday as hundreds more gay couples rushed to tie the knot before the opportunity slipped away.
All day long, the marble passages beneath City Hall's ornate gold dome echoed with applause as one couple after another got hitched, promising to be "spouses for life." By the time weary authorities closed up shop Friday, 665 same-sex couples had taken their vows over two days.
Gay couples received more good news when a judge denied a request by conservatives to immediately block the marriage spree and ordered attorneys to come back Tuesday and make their case. City officials, meanwhile, announced that they would keep special weekend and President's Day hours to accommodate the crowds who have flocked to San Francisco from throughout California and other states.
While it remains unclear what practical value the marriage licenses will carry, their symbolism was evident.
Emboldened by the weddings and the prospect of the nation's first legal same-sex marriages in Massachusetts on May 17, gay couples went to courthouses around the nation Thursday and Friday to demand the right to marry. They were quickly turned away.
The San Francisco marriage spree began Thursday with Mayor Gavin Newsom's blessing, drawing the ire of conservatives.
"Apparently, Mayor Newsom felt he's above the law and like a dictator, could simply dictate what the law should be," said Richard Ackerman, an attorney for the Campaign for California Families.
Hundreds of gay couples began lining up at 4 a.m. Friday, many of them rushing into town from other cities to get married before the courts could step in. San Francisco appears to be the first city in the nation to officially support same-sex marriage licenses.
"I'm not interested as a mayor in moving forward with a separate but unequal process for people to engage in marriages," Newsom said on ABC's "Good Morning America." "The people of this city and certainly around the state are feeling that separate but unequal doesn't make sense."
Mikko Alanne, 31, and his partner, Ari Solomon, 27, drove in overnight from West Hollywood, a six-hour trip. "This is the first step towards the state recognizing gay marriage," Alanne said. Even though "we won't be recognized outside San Francisco, we are very excited."
The conservative groups wanted Superior Court James L. Warren to order the county clerk not to issue any more licenses to same-sex couples, and to void any licenses already granted. Warren said court procedures require them to return after the weekend to properly make their request.
California law, as approved by the voters in 2000, defines marriage as a union of a man and a woman.
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and other state officials have avoided comment, but Attorney General Bill Lockyer's spokeswoman did note that California's constitution provides broader equal-protection rights than other states.
The San Francisco ceremonies occurred as Massachusetts lawmakers ended in a stalemate after two days of impassioned debate. They are considering a ban on gay marriage in response to a ruling by the state's high court that said same-sex couples have the right to marry. The Legislature will reconvene March 11.
Around the country, other gay couples were turned away by court clerks as Thursday's "National Freedom to Marry Day" protests continued into Friday. The protests have been held every Feb. 12 since 1998.
In Richmond, Va., eight couples clutching pink "bride" and blue "groom" applications were denied licenses as legislators three blocks away debated a bill affirming Virginia's ban on same-sex marriages.
"It's a heartbreaker to be rejected," said Mary Gay Hutcherson, who was accompanied by her partner of 10 years, Yolanda Farnum. "But it was empowering. I think we deserve a license from the state of Virginia. And I think someday we will get one."
They also protested in Ohio, where Gov. Bob Taft signed a law last week making it the 38th state to officially bar recognition of gay marriages and the second to deny benefits such as health insurance coverage to unmarried employees' partners. The Ohio law is considered one of the most far-reaching bans in the country.
"It's so easy for people who have something to tell others they can't have it," said Christopher Hoffman, who was turned away in Columbus with his partner of 16 months, Joshua Jacob Wiley. "We don't want to be `domestic partners.' We want to be husbands."
My new love...is me !
Even the greatest authority does not, ultimately, know you as you know yourself.
Jhuka
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Maya Angelou
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