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Thread: Money Well Spent?

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    Veteran Member lethalsoul's Avatar
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    Default Money Well Spent?

    Money Well Spent?

    As "Tax Time" rolls around again and you wonder just what your tax $$$ are paying for...

    When NASA first started sending up astronauts, they quickly discovered that ball-point pens would not work in zero gravity. To combat this problem, NASA scientists spent a decade and $12 million developing a pen that writes in zero gravity, upside down, on almost any surface including glass and at temperatures ranging from below freezing to over 300 C.

    The Russians used a pencil. Now, go pay your taxes... It's the American way.

    lethalsoul

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    Veteran Member NVJosh's Avatar
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    Default Re:Money Well Spent?

    Well, pencil is more likely to fade over time. And think of all the people employed in mall kiosks selling the NASA space pens now! It was good for the economy...or so they say.

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    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re:Money Well Spent?

    Ok, $12 million is a little much for a ballpoint pen. However, I heard that velcro was also invented by NASA for outerspace travel. Velcro is one of the great inventions of modern times and sure worth more than $12 million.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Money Well Spent?

    there are countless technological developments originally funded by NASA which are more important but less obvious to most people or which haven't yet "trickled down" to consumer products - computers rugged enough to be installed in everyone's car, anti-lock brakes (i.e. hydraulic servos), hydrogen/oxygen fuel cells ...

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    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re:Money Well Spent?

    This is another question which is more complicated than it appears to be. Weight is a major issue in space travel and a pen and a pencil weigh about the same. But a pencil requires a pencil sharpener which weighs 5-10 times as much as the pencil, so it takes more fuel to lift it. It also takes more metal to hold the extra fuel and you need more fuel to lift that.

    You also will be breathing in the pencil shavings in ZERO gravity. If you want to "go outside" to sharpen the pencil, you have to take more oxygen to to make up the amount you lose when you open the door which also adds weight.

    The answer shows the difference in approaches of the US and Soviets. We went the "technology" route. They went the "brute force route" and made things bigger. Both cost resources, just different ones.

  6. #6
    Pamela
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    Default Re:Money Well Spent?

    Mechanical pencils...They weigh the same as a pen or pencil, maybe sligtly less, and when needed, just push out the tip, no shavings and no heavy weight. They do have a special covering, not sure why.

    At least this is what i am told by a friend who works for the space program and the word once was....Dunno. He's a mechanical engineer.

    Pamela

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    Veteran Member NVJosh's Avatar
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    Default Re:Money Well Spent?

    There's an interesting show on The History Channel called "Tactical to Practical" that shows how a lot of military/government things have made their way to the mainstream. Fascinating stuff.

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    Veteran Member bibacle's Avatar
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    Default Re:Money Well Spent?

    Dollar for dollar, its not a very good way to do industrial research. However, space is about exploration of the unknown, practical research was just a side effect.

    Ever wonder whatever happened to Tang, the drink the astronouts drank????

    Also, just by the way, the Velco fastener was the invention of a Swiss mountaineer in 1948, and had nothing to do with space travel.
    see http://inventors.miningco.com/librar...y/aa091297.htm for the full details.

    The story of the $12 million ball point pen in also, alas, apocryphal. Standard ball point pens DO write in space. If you don't believe me, check it our from the source:
    http://www.esa.int/export/esaCP/SEM9...D_index_0.html
    and although Fisher did develop a pressurized pen that would write at zero gravity, they did not charge NASA for it at all.
    http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp

    Now, the $500 hammer and the $10 nail, that's another story!
    "Those who dance, are considered crazy by those who can't hear the music."--George Carlin

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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re:Money Well Spent?

    Quote Originally Posted by NVJosh link=board=1;threadid=6762;start=msg75823#msg75823 date=1077307851
    There's an interesting show on The History Channel called "Tactical to Practical" that shows how a lot of military/government things have made their way to the mainstream. Fascinating stuff.
    Personally, I've yet to see a toilet seat worth $5,000.

  10. #10
    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re:Money Well Spent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie link=board=1;threadid=6762;start=msg75758#msg75758 date=1077278439
    there are countless technological developments originally funded by NASA which are more important but less obvious to most people or which haven't yet "trickled down" to consumer products - computers rugged enough to be installed in everyone's car, anti-lock brakes (i.e. hydraulic servos), hydrogen/oxygen fuel cells ...
    Computers in people's cars? I would totally be against that. They already have TV/VCR/DVD's. The other day I was driving home from the store and this car was driving kinda erratically...why? BECAUSE THE STUPID ASS DRIVER WAS WATCHING A MOVIE ON HIS NEW PORTABLE DVD PLAYER!!! Needless to say, I called the police and told them about it.

    I could just imagine what would happen with putting a computer in the car.

    Grrrr...stupid people make me mad.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Money Well Spent?

    Computers in people's cars? I would totally be against that.
    actually, you already have one! It regulates the air/fuel mixture and engine timing to reduce pollution and to improve gas mileage. It controls your electric door locks, and drives your digital dashboard. It controls your anti-lock brake servo valves. Electronic components and computer chips which will operate at extremely high and low temperatures were developed 30 years ago for NASA and military applications.

    IMHO what NASA's subsidies of research and development costs do is to allow researchers and companies to develop new components and technologies for which there doesn't have to be a commercial market ready and waiting in order to pay off the R&D costs. Then later the results of these NASA funded R&D efforts spin off into any number of previously unforecast commercial product areas and give American businesses a technological lead over its competitors in other parts of the world ... for a little while at least.

  12. #12
    Pamela
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    Default Re:Money Well Spent?

    I sooo agree VenusGoddess, keep that crap out of cars! I bought a 3000GT a few months back and it has every toy! A computer modem???? I pulled it out. Anyway it was drainging my battery i found out through bad wiring.

    Next is the damn cell phone speakers. I have 1 above my head, i am leaving. No hands needed, but still dangerous. My phone rings i pull off the road if i can. Or call the number back in a few moments.

    Pamela

  13. #13
    Pamela
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    Default Re:Money Well Spent?

    I think she was talking about the computers we don't need in cars. Could be wrong, but thats where i was going. All the other computers are not a problem i have to touch while driving. Thank god.

    pamela

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    Veteran Member bibacle's Avatar
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    Default Re:Money Well Spent?

    The question, dearest Melonie, is whether space exploration is as cost effective in developing new advances as funding basic research at colleges in universities. NASA research often has a very specific goal or problem to solve, which may or may not have eventual consumer applications.

    I'm in favor of space exploration. However, there are much more important reasons to explore our universe than the fact that some consumer products will be developed.

    By the way, I'm installing a virtual stripper on my car. Do you guys think that will be distracting?
    "Those who dance, are considered crazy by those who can't hear the music."--George Carlin

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Money Well Spent?

    I'm in favor of space exploration. However, there are much more important reasons to explore our universe than the fact that some consumer products will be developed.
    I totally agree. "Space, the Final Frontier" ... William Shatner 1966

    The question, dearest Melonie, is whether space exploration is as cost effective in developing new advances as funding basic research at colleges in universities. NASA research often has a very specific goal or problem to solve, which may or may not have eventual consumer applications.
    Funding basic research at colleges and universities is also tied to some very specific goals and solutions - most of it military. Otherwise we'd have a cure for cancer by now instead of HAARP !


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    Featured Member NikkiD's Avatar
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    Default Re:Money Well Spent?

    WOW. Yay to the virtual stripper!


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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Money Well Spent?

    Quote Originally Posted by NikkiD link=board=1;threadid=6762;start=msg75925#msg75925 date=1077321151
    WOW. Yay to the virtual stripper!
    Nikki, you might not want to be so hasty. Remember that virtual strippers, once purchased, give lap dances for free ! They also don't get older, they don't get stretch marks, they don't gain weight, and they don't object to kinky requests for 'extras'.

    check out for a crude example of where the virtual/artificial stripper concept might be headed in 5 or 10 years (and which some guys are willing to spend many thousands of dollars on right now!). At least I'm encouraged in one way that lots of their customers have requested they come out with a new model with certain 'attributes', which they just did ... see

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    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re:Money Well Spent?

    I realize I am opening my self up on this one, but Melonie, what do you call a vibrator?

    Pamela, you are of course, right but I think their may be issues of carbon dust interfering with filters.

    And, if I remember right, the process of freeze drying food was related to the space program. And Tang-technology turned into Crystal Light.

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    Veteran Member bibacle's Avatar
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    Default Re:Money Well Spent?

    What? Free Lap Dances? When did this happen???
    I've been paying mine $20 for each one....and much more if she comes into the VIP back seat.

    By the way....when I referred to BASIC research, it means pure science, not goal oriented science. Research into cell structures in biology, new compounds in chemistry, etc. Questions on the nature of electrons, the expanding universe, and how we all got here.

    One fewer B1 Bomber can cure most cancers, but we must do non=specific research here on earth. And like most great advances and inventions, hope for happy accidents.

    Unfortunately, only at universities can the pursuit of pure, non-commercial science be conducted. And also corrupted into weapons programs.

    (If you guessed that in 1970 I protested the "Institute for Defense Analysis" at Princeton, you're pretty darn good!--and I'm still marching for peace 34 years later but that's another story altogether).
    "Those who dance, are considered crazy by those who can't hear the music."--George Carlin

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