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Thread: Bush, Kerry

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    Default Bush, Kerry

    I recently learned that both Bush and Kerry were both Yale graduates and members of a semi-secret organization of politicians and corporate elite from yale called skull&bones. I am beginning to wonder if it really makes a difference which one wins ? Are they both trying to benefit the corporations and the elite, or does Kerry actually give a shit about average americans. Does Kerry care about the environment, health, and citizens in other countries, of is he just like Bush, and will he continue to allow americcan corporations to sacrifice every natural resource in the world?

    I mean, how much more polluted can our air, water, and food get. I doubt humans will be able to survive much longer if we keep going at this rate.

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    Default Re:Bush, Kerry

    I am more concerned of this country turning into a third world nation. There are becoming poor & homeless people along with the "rich get richer" people. This leaves a dwindling middle class, which keeps the country moving. When the middle class starts to lessen the government gets more corupt and more controling. This superbowl issue and now the censureship of Howard Stern along with the religous right this is starting to happen. I see this as the real threat to our society than anything else.
    "I don't know about you, but I'm going to get my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames" Jim Morrison

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Bush, Kerry

    IMHO they both pander to special interests. In Bush's case it's conservative special interests like retirees, manufacturers and non-service corporations. In Kerry's case it's liberal special interests such as lawyers, unions, gays & lesbians, and big money service corporations like investment banks and software companies.

    On the subject of environmental protection, Kerry will talk a better game than Bush will. However, when pollution controls start raising the price of basic commodities like electricity and gasoline to double their historical prices, with accompanying negative effects on US corporation profitability and mom & pop weekly budgets, a lot of previously hard line environmental supporters tend to change their tune.

    And for the record, the majority of the "rich get richer" (i.e. extremely rich people) in the USA are liberals. These are the people who support democratic calls to cancel the tax cuts, while at the same time invest their millions in government sanctioned tax shelters, tax free bonds and swiss bank accounts so they themselves don't have to pay higher taxes.

    The Skull&Bones Society comment gives rise to a conspiracy theory that there is in fact a shadow group of extremely rich and powerful individuals who actually direct much of what happens behind the scenes in the USA and European countries. I would sooner think that the owners of major US media have much more power in directing much of what happens in the USA, by simply being able to decide which subjects will and will not be discussed in the national news plus how they should be "spun" for suitable interpretation by the US public.

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    Default Re:Bush, Kerry

    I have heard rumors about cars running on hydrogen with only water as a by-product, off-shore windmills numbering in the millions creating mega-power from tropical ocean winds, geothermal energy (the earth's core heat) for an energy source, and numerous other sources of "alternative fuel and power. Power sources like the wind mills may be beneficial because once they are in place they are a renewable source of electricity. I would like to see a president start to put these technologies into place. Maybe if we can become self-scfficient we we not need to blow up our own buildings and create a war so we can go into another country and steal their energy sources.... Just an idea.

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    Default Re:Bush, Kerry

    OMG...bite your tongue!! Dare you say that, Ryan? Dare you? That would mean that we have a president who...oh...actually thinks of his nation and its health above money...

    But, I am sure that there are people out there who would do it. First, though, they have to get pissed off enough to do something about it. As it is...the American people have no say what happens. If you don't like that...then start doing something about it. Start living your life the way that you feel it should be lived...and leave the drama to the kings and queens of the white house. They will eventually meet their fate. For the rest of us...we'll be above it all.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Bush, Kerry

    Not to be personally critical, but I think that you just proved my point about the US news media. Yes, engines can be run on hydrogen, producing 99.9% water vapor as exhaust, which would vastly reduce air pollution in areas like California where the major source of air pollution is auto exhaust. However, hydrogen does not grow on trees. Large scale production of pure hydrogen requires either vast amounts of electricity or vast amounts of strong chemicals. Both electricity and the production of strong chemicals require large inputs of energy - typically provided by coal, oil or natural gas fired generators. In fact, significantly more coal, oil or natural gas must be burned to produce hydrogen to drive a car 100 miles than if the car just burned gasoline. The big point though is that the pollution effects get shifted from the areas where the cars are driven to the areas where the power is generated and where the strong chemicals are manufactured. This is great for California, but not so great for me here in NY when acid rain kills our lakes as a result of power plant exhaust stacks in the midwest causing the acid rain as a result of generating more electricity to produce hydrogen for California cars.

    As far as windmills go, if wind generated energy had to compete directly in the energy market absolutely nobody would decide to invest in the construction and operation of windmills. The actual costs of wind generated electricity are at least 50% higher than conventional generation methods. The actual reason that windmill generators have been built so far is that the government decided to offer a tax shelter credit to create an incentive for people to invest in them. This tax shelter allowed mega-rich people to invest in the construction of windmill generators at a profit, because they received a tax reduction for the amount of money they invested. But in the long run, it was you and me and other taxpayers who wound up paying more money in taxes to offset the reduction in tax revenues from the ultra rich. Personally, I'd rather pay for electricity in my electricity bill than through higher income tax rates. PS environmentalists are now discovering that windmills are the #1 threat to many bird species, who keep flying into the rotating blades and committing suicide.

    Does Kerry care about the environment, health, and citizens in other countries, of is he just like Bush, and will he continue to allow americcan corporations to sacrifice every natural resource in the world?
    No, he would rather see foreign corporations in South America, Korea, India and China sacrifice every natural resource in the world instead, without having to pay a minimum wage, without having to provide employee benefits, and without having to obey pollution laws. Of course, at the same time he wants to prevent good paying US jobs from being exported to foreign countries. "It does NOT compute".

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    Default Re:Bush, Kerry

    I'm sure they coule put a net or screen around the blade to prevent birds form getting killed... Like they do on a housefan...

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    Default Re:Bush, Kerry

    Melonie, there's no such thing as "special interests," all interests are special. Everyone's definition of a "special interest" is any interest they don't personally agree with. Almost everything government does has the effect of taking something (money, rights) from one group of people and giving it to another. Except for the limited functions that our founding fathers intended (eg. national defense, courts) there is almost nothing government does that benefits everyone. That's why I oppose a big federal government. I don't think it much matters which party is in control, they both favor big government, they just support favoring different groups of people. Even environmental groups fight among each other to suppport their own pet causes - I know, I used to work for an envorinmental group in Washington. If you think corporations are bad you should see how nonprofits operate - they don't get nearly the public scrutiny that business does. If you really knew what went on in DC it would make you sick. Personally I find the far right and the far left to be equally scary, they both favor limiting people's freedoms significantly. I see very little difference between the two.

    FYI, Skull & Bones is an honorary fraternity whose chapters exist on almost every major college campus, and it's members (you have to be voted in) comprise the campus elite. If you were president of your college class you're probably a member. It's probably been around for more than a century. And no, I'm not a member. I hated politics even then.
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  9. #9
    Pamela
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    Default Re:Bush, Kerry

    Well Ryan above everything else the world would be close to being "more" perfect. I don't think that is allowed. We have (only because of our sunshine just about 365 days a year) many homes around me with solar panels, but these heat swimming pools. Ok, thats good news. I myself sunscribe to "Natural Home" which is a damn good book, but the world is NOT going to get better. As for electricity? Hmm saving, well we have more little red electric cars hanging arounde here too. Well they are saving on pollution!

    And as far as Non-for-profit organizations work...Well, i could say alot about a very huge one. Not pretty.

    Pamela

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    Default Re:Bush, Kerry

    Hmm saving, well we have more little red electric cars hanging arounde here too. Well they are saving on pollution!
    Pamela, that depends on whether the electricity used to charge the batteries of the electric cars comes from power plants fueled by burning coal, oil etc. Since you're in Florida, I would guess that the power comes from nuclear plants - which in fact would reduce total pollution (well as long as the nuke plant doesn't melt down or terrorists don't blow up the containment building around it).

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    Default Re:Bush, Kerry

    If you really knew what went on in DC it would make you sick. Personally I find the far right and the far left to be equally scary, they both favor limiting people's freedoms significantly. I see very little difference between the two.
    I get sick enough just seeing a few of the behind the scenes goings-on in NYC and NY state government, as well as an occasional glimpse at a few Wall St. behind the scenes realities. I agree that, in the last 100 years at least, there is no such thing as a "good" politician or a politician who really cares about the well being of the people who elected him.

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    Default Re:Bush, Kerry

    First anyone who believes electric or hydrogen cars are efficient has utterly no comprehension of the laws of physics. Take electricity--for 1000 BTU's of heat from the source fuel you heat 300 BTU's of heat content on the other end. For heavens sake you loose 10% of the heat content between the generating plant and the receptacle at your house in the resistance in the transmission line. No material on earth is a perfect conductor at non-artificial temperatures.(the closest is a diamond cyrstal, gold is pretty good at $420 an oz, Aluminum, at $7/lb is better than copper but cost 6 times as much) And the only way to lower the temperature to a high efficiency point is to use more energy than you save.

    An John Forbes Kerry is no friend of wind power. He and the limosine liberals are fighting a wind power plant on Cape Cod (one of the few places in North America that has a wind strong enough and consistent enough wind to make wind stand a ghost of a chance of making sense)

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    Veteran Member darkness's Avatar
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    Default Re:Bush, Kerry

    BUSH IS NOT THE MAN ANYONE ONE OF YOU SHOULD VOTE FOR!

  14. #14
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re:Bush, Kerry

    Well, because Ryan's heart is mostly in the right place here, I'll be gentle, mostly.

    Rumors about cars running on hydrogen: Toyota has produced a hydrogen-powered prototype. Not practical right now. The things that Melonie and monty listed are drawbacks, although hydrogen does indeed, in a sense "grow on trees" - it's the single most common element in the universe, part of the water that we drink, the stuff that we eat, the things that we grow. "Hydrocarbons" and "carbohydrates" both have hydrogen constituents, obviously.

    Hydrogen is also very volatile. Think of the Hindenburg fireball. In order to keep hydrogen less explosive, a more-stable hydrogen fuel cell is needed. And also, think infrastructure. It will not be easy or cheap to convert a fossil fuel based transportation system to hydrogen. However, something must be done. Hydrocarbon reserves are good for about another 50 years.

    "Offshore" wind farms. They're not just offshore. Come out west, and you'll see them a lot. I buy wind power. But it's more expensive. And there's places that are not all that windy. It's not a universal solution, but it could be a part of a spectrum of solutions.

    You cannot build a screen around a wind farm. There's acres and acres of turbines. Screens would also cut down on the wind, which kinda defeats the purpose.

    Geothermal energy. Some U.S. power plants use this. In Iceland, they use it as their primary power source. It's another part of the spectrum of solutions. But not all places are blessed with the geology to use geothermics.


    Quote Originally Posted by RYAN link=board=1;threadid=6927;start=msg78158#msg78158 date=1077827559
    ... we not need to blow up our own buildings ....

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    Default Re:Bush, Kerry

    Well I don't know if any of you have stopped by the "Poll" for Bush & Kerry?

    I did and I voted for Pikachu!

    Are there any upright and honest poloticians left?
    Variety Is The Spice Of Life & I'm Sexy Little Asian Flavor

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    Default Re:Bush, Kerry

    Quote Originally Posted by MissJADEN link=board=1;threadid=6927;start=msg95051#msg95051 date=1081665982

    Are there any upright and honest poloticians left?
    Um.. You're kidding, right? Since when was ANY politician upright OR honest? LOL

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    Default Re:Bush, Kerry

    Exactly.

    Honestly, I look at Bush and see problems today. I look at Kerry and get scared shitless over some of the comments he has made, knowing that we would be a driveling idoit country with him at the helm. Either way you look at it..........our country is going down the toilet. Until we get a president that doesn't have personal agendas to all the 'special interest groups'......we will continue in our sprial!

    On the subject of Wind Turbines. I live just south of one of the largest turbine farms in the country I believe. You would be surprised at how well they do. Just as an example, I lived in Nebraska while going to school, around Lincoln. There was a guy that put up a Wind Turbine to power his house, and then sold the excess to the power company. He had his Turbine paid off in two years.........so he put up another one after that. If you get a place like Wyoming or Nebraska or any other state that has wind like mad, you can make a go of this. I read somewhere that you can actually get the things started in as little as 5 mph of wind. Oh yea.......don't worry about the birds. Cause if they hit the thing.....they deserve to get killed, cause the blades don't move very fast at all!! hehehehehe

    About Hydrogen power also, you will never see it until a president makes the commitment to do it. Right now the oil cartels have too hard of a grip on this country. Plain and simple. Take a look at if they didn't. We sure as hell wouldn't have even thought about going into the Middle East in the 90's and now, cause we would't have cared.
    I've heard that a good signiture sets you apart from everyone.
    Well......is this good enough???

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    Default Re:Bush, Kerry

    Rhiannon,

    FDR was good. Went down the toilet from then on.

    (Talk to any Vet from WWII, and they will tell you the same thing)
    I've heard that a good signiture sets you apart from everyone.
    Well......is this good enough???

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