View Poll Results: If you're a non-believer, what type are you?

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  • Atheist (doesn't believe in a god[s], but does believe in an afterlife)

    6 8.33%
  • Agnostic (believes that knowledge of an afterlife is unknowable)

    39 54.17%
  • Realist (no afterlife ... we're just animals and when we die, that's it)

    27 37.50%
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Thread: How many non-believers are there here?

  1. #1
    Veteran Member Pumpkin Pie's Avatar
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    Default How many non-believers are there here?

    All this recent talk of superstitions and old wives' tales made me wonder how many fellow non-believers there are here and what type ya be.

    As for myself, I'm a Realist.
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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    I'm a realist...but what that means to everyone is different. religion is such a hard topic...many people disagree!

    I study kabbalah...it's not a religion it's just the basic law of cause/effect...giving/sharing. You can believe in whichever creator you like. (and it's not a jewish faith for anyone who's heard that) They make many references to God even though Hebrew is always present.

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    Featured Member FONDL's Avatar
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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    Do you folks really believe that everything that's happened since the beginning of time has been a totally random accident? Lots of people (including me) believe in some higher power but reject the church's view of God. If you believe in an afterlife isn't that pretty much what you're saying? Personally I believe that life is eternal and that the terms God, life and love are all synonomous, which is sort of the "New Age" view of things. Seems to me that whether or not you believe in "God" is largely a matter of semantics for most people.
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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    See...religion gets things heated

    I believe in so many things...maybe I'm confused. Afterlife...yes! God...hmmm...a creator. Hell...aren't we in it?

    Check out kabbalah...tell me what you think.
    www.kabbalah.com

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    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    I've made the "leap of faith" into realism, although when asked, I say atheism. I'm told that believers look at atheism as a religion itself, one of negativity and denial. My lack of belief stems from a complete lack of spirituality, maybe being a little dead on the inside, NOT caused by stripping thank you very much. I was an atheist long before....

    I do pray, I do believe in attaining higher states of consciousness, the potential of the mind, progress, evolution, aliens, intelligent life on other planets, even the effectiveness of witchcraft and hypnosis on those who believe it works...

    I am trying to create a belief system and spiritual life for myself. I don't know if its because I am less angry at religion now than when I was in college, or if I am tired and just don't care. I want to believe, I want to be happy, but my locus of self-control is just so internalized that it doesn't even seem fathomable that I would put myself or my fate into the hands of a higher power, it just seems silly to me....

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    Veteran Member carmenNYC's Avatar
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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    katrine, i hear what you're saying. i'm kind of trying to create a sort of religion for myself too.

    i'm wary of religion b/c everyone that ive known to be really into it has been so fanatic about it...one girl "sinned" left and right and then prayed incessantly as if it would erase her sins....??!!!!

    i didnt check anything b/c i didnt see anything that really applies to me. i'm not really into any certain faith. i am well versed in science which probably really damaged any chances of me being locked into one faith or another- but i wont get into it, dont feel like being slammed. i am a spiritual person though; i pray. i won';t knock any certain religion b/c i dont know enough about every single religion out there.

    i'm a relatively happy person, i try to help people whenever i can, and i have morals and lines i wont cross. not sure if any religion can help me in any way i cannot help myself.

    cool link w/ kabbalah, very interesting. i've wondered about that religion.

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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4footfine link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg80911#msg80911 date=1078440103
    Hell...aren't we in it?
    yeah, life is the true hell. But I'm still enjoying it the best I can!


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    Veteran Member Pumpkin Pie's Avatar
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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    Quote Originally Posted by FONDL link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg80888#msg80888 date=1078437591
    Do you folks really believe that everything that's happened since the beginning of time has been a totally random accident?
    Yup. And science continuously backs that up and expands upon it.

    Lots of people (including me) believe in some higher power but reject the church's view of God. If you believe in an afterlife isn't that pretty much what you're saying?
    No, it isn't. You're still believing in some "higher power". All three of the above non-believers do not.

    Personally I believe that life is eternal and that the terms God, life and love are all synonomous, which is sort of the "New Age" view of things. Seems to me that whether or not you believe in "God" is largely a matter of semantics for most people.
    Not in the slightest, especially for Realists.

    Oh, and ONLY Realists truly mourn at funerals since for them the death is a complete loss with no chance for continuance.

    However, I get no afterlife brownie points for converting you or anyone else to any of the three non-believer types above so I'll leave it at that and would appreciate this thread not turning into a religious debate. All this thread was meant for was to see if I was the only non-believer around here. By the poll results so far, I can see I'm not and that makes me quite happy.
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  9. #9
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpkin Pie link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg81038#msg81038 date=1078458331
    Quote Originally Posted by FONDL link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg80888#msg80888 date=1078437591
    Do you folks really believe that everything that's happened since the beginning of time has been a totally random accident?
    Yup. And science continuously backs that up and expands upon it.
    I must disagree. There is order in the universe, and whether you buy into the Big Bang, the Little Bang, a closed universe, an open universe, or an ekpyrotic universe, the origination conformed to the physical laws that were in place. Not random.

    It's logical to believe that due to the presence of order in the universe, there's something that set that order. From an empirical standpoint, of course, that is unproven and unprovable. But people will believe in the logic that appeals to them.


    Oh, and ONLY Realists truly mourn at funerals since for them the death is a complete loss with no chance for continuance.
    I must dispute that ONLY they do. I truly mourned at my parents' and friends' funerals. Sorry if you don't believe that.


    However, I get no afterlife brownie points for converting you or anyone else to any of the three non-believer types above so I'll leave it at that and would appreciate this thread not turning into a religious debate. All this thread was meant for was to see if I was the only non-believer around here. By the poll results so far, I can see I'm not and that makes me quite happy.
    If you make statements that are contradictory to others' sensibilities, you can expect debate. A public message board doesn't exist to cater to the narrow desires of one person who posts. I think you can probably expect discussion whether you "appreciate" it or not and whether the responses honor your particular goals or not.

    One thing I've noticed in all belief structures is a certain smugness.

  10. #10
    Pamela
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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    All i can say is i am a believer! And what anyone believes for themselves is fine with me.

    Pamela

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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    When I'm being cheerful and want to believe nice happy things about the world, I lean towards atheist, but generally I'm agnostic with personal persuasion towards realist - like "yeah, I don't think that I've got the best handle on the universe over all these other people, but it makes sense to me." Amusingly, this annoyed my ex, along with my being vegan over vegetarian, and a couple of other moral/political standpoints.
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    Veteran Member Pumpkin Pie's Avatar
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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg81075#msg81075 date=1078467241
    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpkin Pie link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg81038#msg81038 date=1078458331
    Quote Originally Posted by FONDL link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg80888#msg80888 date=1078437591
    Do you folks really believe that everything that's happened since the beginning of time has been a totally random accident?
    Yup. And science continuously backs that up and expands upon it.
    I must disagree. There is order in the universe, and whether you buy into the Big Bang, the Little Bang, a closed universe, an open universe, or an ekpyrotic universe, the origination conformed to the physical laws that were in place. Not random.

    It's logical to believe that due to the presence of order in the universe, there's something that set that order. From an empirical standpoint, of course, that is unproven and unprovable. But people will believe in the logic that appeals to them.
    Sorry, but it's govern by laws of physics and not a fairy tale.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg81075#msg81075 date=1078467241
    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpkin Pie link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg81038#msg81038 date=1078458331
    Oh, and ONLY Realists truly mourn at funerals since for them the death is a complete loss with no chance for continuance.
    I must dispute that ONLY they do. I truly mourned at my parents' and friends' funerals. Sorry if you don't believe that.
    I was talking about complete loss. If you believe in an afterlife, you don't believe in complete loss at death. Realists do and thus why I say they truly mourn. For you believe your dead loved ones still live somewhere in some form. Realists don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg81075#msg81075 date=1078467241
    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpkin Pie link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg81038#msg81038 date=1078458331
    However, I get no afterlife brownie points for converting you or anyone else to any of the three non-believer types above so I'll leave it at that and would appreciate this thread not turning into a religious debate. All this thread was meant for was to see if I was the only non-believer around here. By the poll results so far, I can see I'm not and that makes me quite happy.
    If you make statements that are contradictory to others' sensibilities, you can expect debate. A public message board doesn't exist to cater to the narrow desires of one person who posts. I think you can probably expect discussion whether you "appreciate" it or not and whether the responses honor your particular goals or not.
    I'm sure trolls and flamers would agree with such a statement. I'm not saying you are one of those, but merely making a point. This thread was for non-believers. No option was given for believers in the poll. My original post wasn't an invitation to believers to contribute to this thread. That a believer posted to this thread and that I replied to that post doesn't mean it's now open to believers and I made that desire clear in my reply to that believer. Nor is my reply to you here an invitation for believers to post to this thread. If you check the SW threads about religion, you'll see I haven't tried to argue on those threads my position.

    And I do not wish to argue with you further on this matter. You can post to this thread, but I will not reply to your future posts to this thread if they continue to be argumentative. I gain nothing by doing so and wasn't why I started this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg81075#msg81075 date=1078467241
    One thing I've noticed in all belief structures is a certain smugness.
    I simply don't care. I did at one time in my life, but not anymore.
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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    Pantheism: http://members.aol.com/Heraklit1/faqs.htm (the site is geared towards scientific pantheism, which I don't fully agree with, but it's still interesting)

    A place where non-believers, pagans, christians, hindus, and others can agree...if they'd like to.
    We all imagine ourselves the agents of our destiny, capable of determining our own fate. But have we truly any choice in when we rise, or when we fall, or does a force larger than ourselves bid us our direction. Is it evolution that takes us by the hand, does Science point our way, or is it God who intervenes keeping us safe.

    So much struggle for meaning, for purpose. And in the end, we find it only in each other. Our shared experience of the fantastic. And the mundane. The simple human need to find a kindred, to connect. And to know in our hearts... that we are not alone.
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    Veteran Member Pumpkin Pie's Avatar
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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna Maiden link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg81087#msg81087 date=1078471056
    Amusingly, this annoyed my ex, along with my being vegan over vegetarian, and a couple of other moral/political standpoints.
    After so many years of dating believers, when I finally did by chance date a non-believer, it was really nice. So nice that it was one of the things that turned it into a six-year relationship. While I'm all for socially dating women of any faith or lack thereof, after that relationship, I do now prefer non-believers and that will always be counted as a big plus when considering a relationship with another woman.

    Oh, and one of my favorite light stories about believers was when I was helping a lady friend of mine move. Being big and strong, I'm commonly get roped in (and bribed) by friends for their moving day. Anyway, during the move, I met her mother and we got along beautifully. Chatting and joking the whole day as I carried stuff in and she held the doors for me. Naturally as the day progressed on and me being a prototype extrovert, all topics eventually got touched on and thus late in the day she learned I was a Realist. When she did, she looked shocked and confused. "Oh my god, you're one of those? But you're so nice and helpful." I laughed.
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    God/dess Zabrina's Avatar
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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    I've always considered myself an athiest, ever since I was a little girl and saw the parallels between Santa Claus and god(be a good girl and you will get a present/be a good girl go to heaven). I've never heard of atheists believing in an afterlife, where did that come from? As far as I'm concerned, we all become worm food.

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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    the laws of physics cannot be broken, although they can be bent to a great degree.

    I also believe that some non-physical component i.e. the 'spirit' does exist, which coexists with the real world and which continues beyond the death of the physical body. So far there is extremely little hard physical evidence of such a non-physical component. However, after having a near-death experience myself many years ago, I can provide empirical evidence.

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Pumpkin Pie's Avatar
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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariah link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg81122#msg81122 date=1078478943
    I've always considered myself an athiest, ever since I was a little girl and saw the parallels between Santa Claus and god(be a good girl and you will get a present/be a good girl go to heaven).
    And this is why I love Christmas.

    I've never heard of atheists believing in an afterlife, where did that come from?
    Athiesm technically only means no belief in a god(s). It doesn't exclude the possibility of an afterlife. It comes from the Greek word atheos which means "godless".

    As far as I'm concerned, we all become worm food.
    Then you're a Realist. Welcome to the club.
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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    Whilst I do 'label' myself a Pagan Witch... there is a part of my spirituality which is athiest (godless). This is the scientific aspect of my spirituality and helps me engage my logical brain so I don't go believing everything I hear/read.

    Like I stated in my very long post in the Pagan thread.. my belief in God/Goddess/Great Spirit.. especially the specific dieties are more along the Jungian thoughts. They are archetypes as well as real beings. It is because of all our energy that we put into these archetypes that has made some of them real.

    They exist as long as we keep them alive by someone or some people believing in them (etc).


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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    I belong to the Church of the Subgenius.


    www.subgenius.com

    "I don't know about you, but I'm going to get my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames" Jim Morrison

  20. #20
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpkin Pie link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg81094#msg81094 date=1078473217
    Sorry, but it's govern by laws of physics and not a fairy tale.
    Exactly. It's not random, like you said. And the presence of order (laws of physics) will lead some to surmise that there is a reason for that order.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpkin Pie link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg81038#msg81038 date=1078458331
    For you believe your dead loved ones still live somewhere in some form. Realists don't.
    I didn't say what I believed. I don't presently buy completely into some defined Realist sphere, and I have mourned my dead loved ones. You said ONLY Realists truly mourn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpkin Pie link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg81038#msg81038 date=1078458331
    This thread was for non-believers. No option was given for believers in the poll. My original post wasn't an invitation to believers to contribute to this thread. That a believer posted to this thread and that I replied to that post doesn't mean it's now open to believers and I made that desire clear in my reply to that believer.
    Unless you're the moderator, it's open to whoever wants to post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpkin Pie link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg81038#msg81038 date=1078458331
    And I do not wish to argue with you further on this matter. You can post to this thread, but I will not reply to your future posts to this thread if they continue to be argumentative. I gain nothing by doing so and wasn't why I started this thread.
    Works for me. One man's logical contradiction is another man's argumentative statements.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg81075#msg81075 date=1078467241
    I simply don't care. I did at one time in my life, but not anymore.
    I presume you started the thread because you care. And it does take a certain smugness to call a simple monotheist notion a "fairy tale." That's taking a fairly pejorative stance.

    I enjoy discussing the fusion or nonfusion of spirituality and science. That's one reason I jumped in. If the statements seemed argumentative, sorry for the perception. I thought they were fairly straightforward and nonjudgmental. Perhaps my core belief is that any idea is worthy of challenge.

  21. #21
    Pamela
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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    Goodness i am a good friend with (Callguy) on the board from time to time, and he has a Masters in Physics. Uses this on me frequently. We have had times talking "cause and effect" along with the world and how it completely supports the "laws of Physics."

    However upon his expanding more so, he does admit one thing, the world/universe is forever changing...Slowly but doing so, and with that this supports creation (seemingly at times) which i adore!

    Our DNA is not that close to a monkey or ape (seperate species) as we first thought. Actually pretty far from our DNA!!!!

    Pamela

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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    Pumpkin, I think your definition of Atheist and agnostic are quite limited. I'm an Agnostic but that doesn't mean I don't believe in an afterlife. It simply means that if there is a god , I don't know what form it takes. Does it have a conscience? Is it infinite? I realize there are forces greater than man like electromagnetism or radiation but I don't know that those forces can react to human communication. Of all those reveared to be God(s) , which can be confirmed -Buddah , Allah, Krishna, Apollo, Zeus? As far as I know God could be the string theory.
    As for the afterlife, I have no idea whether it exists or not. At least not in the way we may think of it.

  23. #23
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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    Pumpkin Pie, I'm sorry if I offended you by stating my beliefs, I thought that's what you were asking for. And as for arguing, I have no interest in changing anyone else's beliefs, that's their business not mine. As far as I'm concerned, there's only one relevant question one should ask about their beliefs - are they working for you? If so then you've found your truth. If not, you might want to keep looking.
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  24. #24
    Veteran Member Pumpkin Pie's Avatar
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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer link=board=1;threadid=7131;start=msg81201#msg81201 date=1078506469
    Pumpkin, I think your definition of Atheist and agnostic are quite limited.
    The definitions are well-established.

    I'm an Agnostic but that doesn't mean I don't believe in an afterlife.
    Read the definition again. I didn't say that an agnostic believes in an afterlife. An agnostic believes whether or not there is one is unknowable. You might have just read too quickly. An athiest does believe in an afterlife ... but simply that there's no god(s).


    It simply means that if there is a god , I don't know what form it takes. Does it have a conscience? Is it infinite? I realize there are forces greater than man like electromagnetism or radiation but I don't know that those forces can react to human communication. Of all those reveared to be God(s) , which can be confirmed -Buddah , Allah, Krishna, Apollo, Zeus? As far as I know God could be the string theory.
    As for the afterlife, I have no idea whether it exists or not. At least not in the way we may think of it.
    That's pretty much an agnostic's view on things.
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  25. #25
    Veteran Member Tia_q's Avatar
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    Default Re:How many non-believers are there here?

    Mark me down as a Realist. (although I'm not sure how I feel about being labeled as such-but according to the definition...)

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