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Thread: Being a good photographer

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    Member ProPhotog's Avatar
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    Default Being a good photographer

    Variation on an earlier theme....I'd like to know what the dancers feel makes a good photographer. What makes you trust him/her? What services should be offered (makeup, etc) and do you prefer in-studio or portable shoots...anything you care to share would be appreciated
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    God/dess Zabrina's Avatar
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    Default Re:Being a good photographer

    I first want to see examples of his/her work. I can sympathise with someone who is starting out, or photography is a hobby and not thier career. But I do need to see some idea of the kind of shots they want me to participate in, and I want to know he/she can make me look good. I'm not trying to be a professional model, but I do love to pose occasionally. TFP is okay by me, as long as I can trust he/she is not making money at my expense and not paying me for it! That's where TFP can get rather iffy, especially since alot of what I've done is semi-nude or sexy. Trust is a big issue.

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    Member ProPhotog's Avatar
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    Default Re:Being a good photographer

    Great tips...thanks

    I am building an online site for some of my work...that way I can show off at least the tamer stuff before our first meeting.


    Other thoughts?
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    Senior Member Pixie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Being a good photographer

    Make sure to be very respectful at all times. If you want a model to do a certain position, describe it to her, assume it yourself, or ASK if you want to touch her to adjust her. Do not touch her anywhere inappropriate. (I know it sounds like common sense, but...some people don't think about it/don't abide by it.)

    Generally, it's good to meet beforehand to discuss a shoot. Meeting in public is best. Let the model bring someone with her--if you say no, she will be suspicious. If you have some, offer references.

    It's nice to have flexibility as far as shoot location--I don't always have the ability to travel. Then again, I don't always have a place to shoot where I am--so either one works, both would be best.

    Good luck.

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    Member ProPhotog's Avatar
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    Default Re:Being a good photographer

    cool thanks

    hey, how or where is the best way to get new models in the studio? I just relocated to a new town (had word of mouth where i was) .... do you want to be approached in the club or is there a better location/way?
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    Senior Member Pixie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Being a good photographer

    Not all dancers model or are willing to model. How and where you should find your models depends on what kind of pictures you want to take (nude/fashion/art). If you want clothed shoots, you could even try giving your card to interesting girls you see on the street (though be prepared for them to be suspicious or even rude.) You could try a modeling site like OMP, though it has gone sort of downhill recently. If you have references and are polite, you'll probably have good luck with it.

    You could also put an ad in the paper, etc. Be creative!

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    God/dess GoldCoastGirl's Avatar
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    Default Re:Being a good photographer

    There are alot of modelling sites which photographers can also list themselves on... OMP is already mentioned.. two others are http://www.musecube.com and http://www.modelattic.com

    I can recommend MuseCube as I got alot of work via that medium with legit photographers.

    The way I worked was I stated I was an amateur model and open to TFP. The only conditions I placed on my TFP work (since it would involve nudity) was that we shared copyright of all photos and that I required a copy of all the photos (incl. the lame not so good one) on a CD.

    I required shared copyright so then I could publish them on my site (at the time.. it is still up however I'm slowly shutting it down).

    I would always meet the photographer in a public place (ie Starbucks) to look over his portfolio and to allow the photographer and myself to see if we are comfortable with each other.. plus work out any details of the shoot beforehand.

    I would always have the meeting a week to 24 hours prior to the actual shoot NEVER the same day as the shoot.

    For any photographers I was working with for the first time, I would only allow them to do outdoor locations. I only do indoor/studio work with photographers I have worked with before and have subsequently prooved their professionalism.

    I will never allow myself to be video taped unless I bring the video camera and the tape (hence the equipment and tape is all my property).

    I've only ever classed myself as an amateur model (since I was doing it as a hobby of sorts) and did all TFP shoots.

    BTW.. I made sure I stated the condition about the photographs being shared copyright and making sure that the photographer agreed via email so then I have a copy of that agreement. Both parties win in this deal: the photographer can then sell my photos and so can I.



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    Member ProPhotog's Avatar
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    Default Re:Being a good photographer

    Good ideas...I like them

    With my gear it's easy to share all images (the camera records on CD...all I do is copy the CD and print what the model wants...on photo paper up to 20x30 size).

    THanks!
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    Member fwcamguy's Avatar
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    Default Re:Being a good photographer

    Exactly -

    Check out examples. Guys get frustrated that they can't just "start shooting", but neither can someone just "start being a race car driver" or a pilot. Build skill and demonstrate it. Guys shouldn't think that owning a camera automatically qualifies them to take pictures of naked women.

    On your second point, I just found a TFP model release I love because it says very plainly that TFP payment is in portfolio or promotional images ONLY - for both parties. I, the photographer, retain copyright (as is the norm), so the dancer doesn't have the legal right to sell images unless I cede those rights, but the release ALSO says that *I* won't sell any images without the model's consent, while acknowledging that any sale by me assumes a negotiated sum to be paid to the model.

    Very fair for both sides, I think. If I suddenly discover that there's marketability in some TFP shoot I did, then I still can't profit w/o the model's consent and her profiting as well.

    Richard

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariah link=board=10;threadid=7182;start=msg81680#msg8168 0 date=1078625051
    I first want to see examples of his/her work. I can sympathise with someone who is starting out, or photography is a hobby and not thier career. But I do need to see some idea of the kind of shots they want me to participate in, and I want to know he/she can make me look good. I'm not trying to be a professional model, but I do love to pose occasionally. TFP is okay by me, as long as I can trust he/she is not making money at my expense and not paying me for it! That's where TFP can get rather iffy, especially since alot of what I've done is semi-nude or sexy. Trust is a big issue.

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    Member ProPhotog's Avatar
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    Default Re:Being a good photographer

    I'd love to see that release...couldnt hurt to compare...please email to [email protected]ks!

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    Default Re:Being a good photographer

    No problem - always glad to share if I find something good!

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re:Being a good photographer

    This is just another one of those "photographer" guys looking for tips on how to pick up dancers so he can get his cheap thrills with "modeling sessions". A REAL 'prophotog' doesn't need all these tips!

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Member ProPhotog's Avatar
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    Default Re:Being a good photographer

    Whatever, B. If that's what you want to believe - fine.

    The truth is I have more models in my area than I need....the reason for this thread was simply an alternative to the threads on "bad photographers" I have seen.

    Why have just the bad...why not have some tips for those starting out to tell them how to make a model comfortable? Beats having an honest photog screw up something simple.

    WHat I'd love to see here is girls posting what makes them safe in-session...not just before.

    By the way, my rules on safety and whether or not I "Pick Up" dancers are posted elsewhere in this forum...if you need me to I will find them and PM them to you. Basically: Never have relationships with models, require 2 forms of ID, videotape all sessions on 2 VCRs and give her a copy...no touching unless told I can to pose her.

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  14. #14
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re:Being a good photographer

    In fairness, I understand why Bridgette said that. A lot of this looks contrived.

    It's unusual to find a polished, professional photographer, with all kinds of "models that he works with," on a stripper board saying, "Whaddya think, girls?" It does sound like there's a theme of "How best can I act like a real photographer?"

    I know some very good photographers, have worked with a few of them, have had a few say nice things about my work, and none of them videotape their sessions unless there's a "Behind The Scenes" aspect to it. Not that it's a bad idea. But insisting on it is a bit like shouting, "I'M NOT CREEPY!!" Thou doth protest too much.

    The pros that I know don't have Web site titles like "makeitsexy." They have titles with either their names as photographers or something that sounds, well, a bit classier. I looked briefly at your site. The pros I know would never have "Hot and Hard? Nadia is Nasty," or, "shaved and super kinky," and the photos in your Web site are ....well.... not professional-looking.

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    Member ProPhotog's Avatar
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    Default Re:Being a good photographer

    OK well if the impression I gave is one of unprofessionalism....I am sorry. So sorry I guess I';ll move on from this board.

    By the way, none of the images on "makeitsexy" are mine. but that's another point

    Bye.
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    Default Re:Being a good photographer

    Hi, GoldCoastGirl -

    hmmm ... I just reread your post (sometimes I miss things on the first pass), and fwiw, I have ambivalent feelings about shared copyright. I'm going to have to think more about what you say - both parties having the freedom to sell if they desire. I know I'm coming from a fairly (ok, maybe extremely) anal perspective on copyright. For about 10 years, I managed a small print and media library, and was rigorously attentive to copyright and made sure that my users were very aware of what their bounds were.

    Plus, I tend to think of my images as my babies - even the ugly ones get kept as lessons. And of course, the good ones, I'd want them being handled in the best possible light.

    I suppose that, in my mind, I'm open to selling the copyright much more than sharing. Anyway - it's something I continue to think about.

    As far as meeting, I doubt I'd ever again meet anyone face-to-face w/o there being someone else present on their side. I guess I feel like I have to be exceedingly circumspect when I'm alone with a model, and can loosen up when I know there's an observer. That doesn't protect me from getting set up (but how likely is that, really??), but the model release also has a line they sign at the end of the session, stipulating that nothing untoward happened. Plus, it's nice to use the 3rd person as an assistant, since I rarely bring my own along, and if I do, it's a woman. I know - lots of hangups here - but I want someone who a) knows what they're doing and b) won't be intimidating to a female model.

    I like your stipulation about first sessions only being out-of-doors. I also like to avoid nudity on a first session (lol - especially if it's out of doors in a well-travelled area).

    I can see videotaping the session being a reasonable safeguard, but it would only work for me if we're shooting indoors against a single backdrop. The absolute last thing I'm going to bother to do is drag along a video camera as we're moving around a location.

    Anyway, just some thoughts.

    Richard

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldCoastGirl link=board=10;threadid=7182;start=msg83185#msg8318 5 date=1078982637
    There are alot of modelling sites which photographers can also list themselves on... OMP is already mentioned.. two others are and

    I can recommend MuseCube as I got alot of work via that medium with legit photographers.

    The way I worked was I stated I was an amateur model and open to TFP. The only conditions I placed on my TFP work (since it would involve nudity) was that we shared copyright of all photos and that I required a copy of all the photos (incl. the lame not so good one) on a CD.

    I required shared copyright so then I could publish them on my site (at the time.. it is still up however I'm slowly shutting it down).

    I would always meet the photographer in a public place (ie Starbucks) to look over his portfolio and to allow the photographer and myself to see if we are comfortable with each other.. plus work out any details of the shoot beforehand.

    I would always have the meeting a week to 24 hours prior to the actual shoot NEVER the same day as the shoot.

    For any photographers I was working with for the first time, I would only allow them to do outdoor locations. I only do indoor/studio work with photographers I have worked with before and have subsequently prooved their professionalism.

    I will never allow myself to be video taped unless I bring the video camera and the tape (hence the equipment and tape is all my property).

    I've only ever classed myself as an amateur model (since I was doing it as a hobby of sorts) and did all TFP shoots.

    BTW.. I made sure I stated the condition about the photographs being shared copyright and making sure that the photographer agreed via email so then I have a copy of that agreement. Both parties win in this deal: the photographer can then sell my photos and so can I.


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    Member fwcamguy's Avatar
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    Default Re:Being a good photographer

    Pixie -

    I LOVE what you say about meeting beforehand to discuss the shoot.

    Maybe even when I'm shooting TFP, I should offer to PAY for a pre-shoot meeting.

    So often, it's like pulling teeth to nail down ideas beforehand. It's not so bad if it's someone I know, since we've already had *some* conversations. But new people, it's a lot nicer if you can have a little time to get to know each other and bounce some ideas off each other in real time.

    Ok - that's enough blather from my end of the table for the moment (can you tell I get excited about this?)

    Richard

    Quote Originally Posted by Pixie link=board=10;threadid=7182;start=msg82459#msg8245 9 date=1078804974
    Make sure to be very respectful at all times. If you want a model to do a certain position, describe it to her, assume it yourself, or ASK if you want to touch her to adjust her. Do not touch her anywhere inappropriate. (I know it sounds like common sense, but...some people don't think about it/don't abide by it.)

    Generally, it's good to meet beforehand to discuss a shoot. Meeting in public is best. Let the model bring someone with her--if you say no, she will be suspicious. If you have some, offer references.

    It's nice to have flexibility as far as shoot location--I don't always have the ability to travel. Then again, I don't always have a place to shoot where I am--so either one works, both would be best.

    Good luck.

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    Default Re:Being a good photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by ProPhotog link=board=10;threadid=7182;start=msg87417#msg8741 7 date=1080051056
    OK well if the impression I gave is one of unprofessionalism....I am sorry. So sorry I guess I';ll move on from this board.

    By the way, none of the images on "makeitsexy" are mine. but that's another point

    Bye.
    well, that was such a professional retort. *golf clap*




  19. #19
    God/dess GoldCoastGirl's Avatar
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    Default Re:Being a good photographer

    I just wanted to say that I turn up to the face2face meeting by myself only because of necessity. I do not have any friends (male or female) or a SO who can come with without much advance notice.... and even then they might not turn up.

    So I meet the perspective photographer at a public place.

    I only have shared copyright so then I can use the images on a "members only" website (a 'for profit' use) or other 'for profit' uses. This way both the photographer and model can use the images in a 'for profit' use and not have to worry about compensating each other and/or seeking permission.

    Selling the copyright to the images is something that is done... I would be okay with that too.



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