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Thread: Well i am out of a club so.....

  1. #26
    Veteran Member SaraNLA's Avatar
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    More power to ya Pam.

    I'm writing b/c of Sanders's comments. I have found a few customers that take his stance, that dancers are really prostitutes. The ones that say that are the ones that want to have sex outside the club, everytime. They think if they can degrade us enough, make us feel ashamed of dancing (because it's "REALLY" prostitution) then perhaps we'll be stupid enough to say, "Oh, baby, save me from this awful situation," and become their mistress or something.

    I got this totally idiodic email from a customer the other day who is doing the exact same thing. Had I known he was such a freakin weirdo I never would have given him my dancer's email, but anyway....He writes:

    And Harry and I agreed that it's sad that many wonderfull girls like you and my mistress are compromising their virtues into stripping ("soft prostituting") for money for anybody and not worrying about their future (daughters and grand-daughters). What's this great nation coming to? A nation of corrupt men and women based on hidden lies? Since the time of Kennedy or Clinton? What do you think? It's going to be the politics by your generation in a few years. Whatever happned to the innocence of '60s?
    When I asked him why it's okay for him to come to the clubs he said that he was 50 years old and didn't have much life left, but I was young and had my whole life ahead of me.

    I'm sorry, but you have to be feeling pretty darn bad about your own life if you find the need to go around and call women prostitutes.

    I found Sanders comments to be depressing and degrading, and as he mentioned, he doesn't care about that - he's just "opening our eyes" -- well, anyone who reads this, don't buy into it - stripping is not prostitution. You're making money and hopefully you're spending or saving it wisely. Hold your head up high and don't get brainwashed by crap like that. Thanks, and make lots of money tonight!!!
    Let your indulgence set me free. - Shakespeare

  2. #27
    Veteran Member vanilla_dog's Avatar
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    Quote Originally Posted by polecat link=board=1;threadid=7336;start=msg83733#msg83733 date=1079141767
    That's kinda dicey territory there, vanilla, because it borders on misrepresentation or at least a dissatisfied experience for the customer....
    Misrepresentation? No. Escort agencies always state that there is no sex. That there is sex does not mean it is to be taken for granted.

    Dissatisfied customer? Yes. But who cares? There are all kinds of unsatisfied customers around the black market. For example, how many kiddie porn consumers are pissed when "Teen" turns out to mean 18 and over?

    I can't say I advocate banning prostitution to capture sales, but I can see the positive side of the situation. I like to believe there are laws against prostitution for reasons other than market motives, however, organized crime's role in both politics and the flesh trade makes me believe otherwise.

    I think Johns and dancers have mutually exclusive objectives. Many customers want cheap hookers. Many dancers just want to dance. I don't think that will ever change.

    If customers ever do get sex they just start scheming on ways to get it for less. That is a no-win situation for the dancer in my opinion. Bending a John into a customer is at least trying to adhere to the law. Turning a dancer into a prostitute is illegal and total sexual coercion.
    You get what you put up with

  3. #28
    Featured Member polecat's Avatar
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    Quote Originally Posted by vanilla_dog link=board=1;threadid=7336;start=msg83787#msg83787 date=1079150594
    I think Johns and dancers have mutually exclusive objectives.
    Bingo. This is why they are a poor-fit model. It's a conflict from the very start.

    Bending a John into a customer is at least trying to adhere to the law. Turning a dancer into a prostitute is illegal and total sexual coercion.
    I strongly disagree as the bending, either way (john->customer, dancer->prostitute) are both equally wrong and immoral. The conflict stated above IS a conflict. It's equally wrong to "cheer" for either winner since in either case, one wins, one loses. Both are coercion. The door swings both ways.

    And running to the law doesn't hold any water. Any form of contact/lapdance can be considered a "lewd" act for money by many forms of interpretation. The same ordinances word-for-word have case histories where a woman 4' away can fall under this in one region, and not in another. It's all about how much cash has greased palms for a given province.

    It's also a plain fact that 6' or 4' rules abound in many provinces where full-contact lapdances are occurring. If you are an advocate for adherence to the law, then you should not be getting naked for tips, doing any form of lapdances or even working in a stripclub. All of the above fall into the "lewd" category but are not enforced or pursued do to local collaboration efforts or lack of conservative representation in the local city hall.
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

  4. #29
    Veteran Member ToriBaltimore's Avatar
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    Bending a John into a customer is at least trying to adhere to the law. Turning a dancer into a prostitute is illegal and total sexual coercion.
    If a dancer is "bending" a John into a customer....its not trying to adhere to the law, its trying to get more money.
    And lets face, all of us have probably bent the law at one time or another, even if it is something as simple as to a club with an air dance rule, and you have been closer to the customer then the legal limit.
    And turning a dancer into a prostitute may not always be illegal. There ARE places that prostitution is legal.



  5. #30
    Veteran Member vanilla_dog's Avatar
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    Running to the law? :o Let's get one thing straight: I run from the law: when it comes to cops I know which direction to go!

    If a John comes in a club and tries to get me to prostitute myself and I try to get him to go for the product available in the club i.e no extra's dances, then he is wrong and I am simply doing my job.

    I agree that the law is often ignored. And I agree the law is open to interpretation. In Utah, for example, all adult businesses are constantly being attacked by the religous right.

    However, if a dancer doesn't take money in her hand or clothes or pick it up with her breasts or ass; and if she never, ever touches anyone - dancer or customer; and if her thongs and pasties are regulation size and her license is up to date then she can get away with leaning over the railing a bit and breaking the three foot law. No touching though!
    You get what you put up with

  6. #31
    Veteran Member Isis's Avatar
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    Quote Originally Posted by polecat link=board=1;threadid=7336;start=msg83791#msg83791 date=1079151377

    I strongly disagree as the bending, either way (john->customer, dancer->prostitute) are both equally wrong and immoral.
    How is bending a John into a customer immoral, I don't get it ???

  7. #32
    Veteran Member vanilla_dog's Avatar
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Isis link=board=1;threadid=7336;start=msg83807#msg83807 date=1079153317
    Quote Originally Posted by polecat link=board=1;threadid=7336;start=msg83791#msg83791 date=1079151377

    I strongly disagree as the bending, either way (john->customer, dancer->prostitute) are both equally wrong and immoral.
    How is bending a John into a customer immoral, I don't get it ???
    It's a violation of the 2004 UN John's Bill of Rights doncha know.
    You get what you put up with

  8. #33
    Featured Member polecat's Avatar
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Isis link=board=1;threadid=7336;start=msg83807#msg83807 date=1079153317
    How is bending a John into a customer immoral, I don't get it ???
    Because you are using personal greed ( the same way a john trying to bend a dancer into a prostitute) dictate an immoral/wrong deed.

    So, if you go into an auto garage wanting tires and are coerced into buying an oil change or shocks that you don't need/want, is this right? Or if you need a TV and you are only allowed to buy a radio, is this right?

    Johns really have no business in stripclubs, except in a few select clubs in SF, Houston or the more raunchy/seedy clubs abroad where it's an embraced rule by all the dancers (i.e. no mismatched expectations by anyone on shift). This is where the problem truly stems. If one just so happens to wander into the wrong place (i.e. one where this is not tolerated or embraced by the dancers on staff), it is no sin to lay out the house rules and try to sell them what's offerred by that club. But it IS wrong to suggest that it's a good-fit that should be the goal (i.e. coerce johns into only being customers).
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

  9. #34
    Veteran Member Isis's Avatar
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    Quote Originally Posted by vanilla_dog link=board=1;threadid=7336;start=msg83809#msg83809 date=1079153693
    It's a violation of the 2004 UN John's Bill of Rights doncha know.


    but ofcourse how could I have forgotten !

    Good 1 Vanilla

  10. #35
    Veteran Member vanilla_dog's Avatar
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    Pole: you are starting to sound like a communist! I know it's late on Friday and you are Polish and perhaps a bit deep into the vodka by now, but your arguement makes absolute-ly no sense.

    When a customer tries to get a dancer to perform an act of prostitution he is not being GREEDY. He is being horny, perverted, and predatory, as well as breaking the law.

    When a dancer tries to sell what the establishment she works in legally sells she is not being greedy. She is doing her job. See? This is America...she is doing her job!

    If I sell snow blowers and you are in my store wanting a snow shovel I reserve the right to try and sell you a snow blower! If you are a customer in my establishment you are fair game.

    If you want tires in my auto garage and I don't have any, I sure will try to sell you Leak-stop and maybe some canned air, and whatever else you seem to be looking at and admiring. It's nothing personal - it's just business.

    I have a question: If a cop gives you a citation for picking up hookers, is the cop coercing you into being a customer instead of a john? Is that immoral and greedy? Just curious...


    You get what you put up with

  11. #36
    Veteran Member Isis's Avatar
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    Quote Originally Posted by vanilla_dog link=board=1;threadid=7336;start=msg83832#msg83832 date=1079156200


    When a dancer tries to sell what the establishment she works in legally sells she is not being greedy.she is doing her job!

    If I sell snow blowers and you are in my store wanting a snow shovel I reserve the right to try and sell you a snow blower! If you are a customer in my establishment you are fair game.
    EXACTLY ! I just don't see how offering legal dances to a guy who is seeking illegal services is greedy or immoral. At worst it might be a waste of time.

  12. #37
    Featured Member polecat's Avatar
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    Quote Originally Posted by vanilla_dog link=board=1;threadid=7336;start=msg83832#msg83832 date=1079156200
    Pole: you are starting to sound like a communist! I know it's late on Friday and you are Polish and perhaps a bit deep into the vodka by now, but your arguement makes absolute-ly no sense.
    Actually, I'm all out of Vodka, Scotch AND Tequila.. having to settle for a Merlot.

    When a customer tries to get a dancer to perform an act of prostitution he is not being GREEDY. He is being horny, perverted, and predatory, as well as breaking the law.
    Same basis, different definition. I consider a john trying to coerce a dancer into extras as being self-centered, self-absorbed and inconsiderate... basically greedy.

    Without quoting the rest of your post- we're in basic agreement, just confusing a mindset/ideology with a pointed situation.

    Again- if a "john" walks into a stripclub, it's good salesmanship and proper etiquette to try and sell him standard fair stripclub services. Hell, I even recommend this in openly extras clubs! Why bare sex/extras unless it's absolutely necessary! Most of the PL/John's are wishy washy enough to where a good hustle/sales job can satiate their needs to enough degree of satisfaction without matching initial expectations. It's often what separates the true courtesan/hostess from the corner pro's.

    But from a mindset/ideology standpoint- it is wrong and immoral to suggest that hardcore "johns" should just have to "settle" for what a particular club offers. It's much more communistic to try and dictate what is best-fit for everyone than to simply define what one's own rules are and impose them across the board. These customers should simply find a massage parlour, escort, prostitute or Nevada brothel or whatever to match their expectation. There is nothing wrong with them, or those that provide for their needs provided it's not hurting anyone or effecting anyone else's boundries or place of employment.

    And on your cop question- local law enforcement and city hall standards are what define appropriate behavior for a given province. These are usually bought rather than rationalized. Law enforcement is in no way "coercive"- they are just maintaining a set of rules. Interestingly enough, I bounced a zero contact club and therefore any form of customer contact was met with instant ejection. This doesn't mean I support nor condemn this behavior, it's just the rule for the particular locale, region or club. But by the same token, the dancers at this club shouldn't have any qualms if women a few miles away were doing extras... they are on a level playing field and therefore have no pressure to extend their boundries regardless of customer pressure since their peers maintained the same rules, AND they were properly enforced.
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

  13. #38
    Veteran Member livenudegirlsunite's Avatar
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    Of course I am going to stick up for myself and all women in defense against predators like you Sander8son.

    Ladies: You might want to check out this site.

    http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/ten-reasons.html

    Here is an excerpt from this very informative and enlightened site which strives to make sure that we women are not stripped of our right to be treated with dignity.

    "7. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution increases the demand for prostitution. It boosts the motivation of men to buy women for sex in a much wider and more permissible range of socially acceptable settings.

    With the advent of legalization in countries that have decriminalized the sex industry, many men who would not risk buying women for sex now see prostitution as acceptable. When the legal barriers disappear, so too do the social and ethical barriers to treating women as sexual commodities. Legalization of prostitution sends the message to new generations of men and boys that women are sexual commodities and that prostitution is harmless fun.

    As men have an excess of sexual services that are offered to them, women must compete to provide services by engaging in anal sex, sex without condoms, bondage and domination and other proclivities demanded by the clients. Once prostitution is legalized, all holds are barred.

    Advertisements line the highways of Victoria offering women as objects for sexual use and teaching new generations of men and boys to treat women as subordinates. Businessmen are encouraged to hold their corporate meetings in these clubs where owners supply naked women on the table at tea breaks and lunchtime.

    A Melbourne brothel owner stated that the client base was well educated professional men, who visit during the day and then go home to their families. Women who desire more egalitarian relationships with men find that often the men in their lives are visiting the brothels and sex clubs. They have the choice to accept that their male partners are buying women in commercial sexual transactions, avoid recognizing what their partners are doing, or leave the relationship (Sullivan and Jeffreys: 2001).

    Sweden's Violence Against Women, Government Bill 1997/98:55 prohibits and penalizes the purchase of sexual services. It is an innovative approach that targets the demand for prostitution. Sweden believes that by prohibiting the purchase of sexual services, prostitution and its damaging effects can be counteracted more effectively than hitherto. Importantly, this law clearly states that: Prostitution is not a desirable social phenomenon and is an obstacle to the ongoing development towards equality between women and men.**"

    I wish that we had a government that cared so much about violence against women in this country. Instead our government focuses on punishing the victims.
    Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. - M Rivero

  14. #39
    Featured Member sander8son's Avatar
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    in a capitalist system everyone is a commodity. construction workers sell their bodies, scientists sell their minds.

    Quote Originally Posted by livenudegirlsunite link=board=1;threadid=7336;start=msg83898#msg83898 date=1079194700
    Of course I am going to stick up for myself and all women in defense against predators like you Sander8son.



    Advertisements line the highways of Victoria offering women as objects for sexual use and teaching new generations of men and boys to treat women as subordinates. Businessmen are encouraged to hold their corporate meetings in these clubs where owners supply naked women on the table at tea breaks and lunchtime.
    you just used a strip club as an example of prostitution. thank you.

    why can't men be sexual commodities as well? maybe i want to pimp myself out. after all, im running out of potential prey.

    why is sex wrong?

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    Veteran Member Rayleen's Avatar
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    Quote Originally Posted by sander8son link=board=1;threadid=7336;start=msg83911#msg83911 date=1079196997
    why can't men be sexual commodities as well? maybe i want to pimp myself out.
    You can LA is full of hustlers walking the strolls. I understand that male prostitutes are in higher demand than females in LA !

  16. #41
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Questions for Sander8son

    I saw on the news where congress is raising the fines for obscenity on the radio to like $500,000. Do you really think a society that penalizes people half a million dollars for saying a dirty word on the air is going to legalize prostitution? Like someone else mentioned, the country is heading in the opposite direction.

    Second, you argue that legalized prostitution will basically bring the end to strip clubs. Then explain Las Vegas to me. There you have some of the biggest, most money-making clubs in the country located in a state where prostitution IS legal.

    I'm not flaming you, just pointing out that I think some of your assumptions are flawed.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  17. #42
    Featured Member sander8son's Avatar
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    Default Re:Questions for Sander8son

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny link=board=1;threadid=7336;start=msg83920#msg83920 date=1079198243
    I saw on the news where congress is raising the fines for obscenity on the radio to like $500,000. Do you really think a society that penalizes people half a million dollars for saying a dirty word on the air is going to legalize prostitution? Like someone else mentioned, the country is heading in the opposite direction.

    Second, you argue that legalized prostitution will basically bring the end to strip clubs. Then explain Las Vegas to me. There you have some of the biggest, most money-making clubs in the country located in a state where prostitution IS legal.

    I'm not flaming you, just pointing out that I think some of your assumptions are flawed.
    good points destiny.

    i know theres been a lot of hubub about obscenity laws lately. but its on both sides. people are stretching the limits and as a reaction certain governement officials and organizations are trying to halt this. but there are still a lot of people pushing forward to break down these laws. could go either way. its my belief that we'll see legalized prostitution soon, or atleast a lot less enforcement of prostitution/obscenity laws in the future. you'll only see the tolken bust everynow and then(howard stern) just to give the effect that they're being enforced. mainly around election times.

    two, prostitution is legal in nevada. Illegal in vegas. so, clubs aren't immediately competing with prostitution. those who want prostittues(legally) dont have to go far from vegas to get it, but SCs are more convenient. also, vegas is a tourist town. lots of conventions.

    tourists and business men are the groups that will spend money in glitz clubs. which is what vegas is famous for. i have a fealing SCs in boise, idaho will be a different story in coming years.

    but the fact that in NV you have the high end show clubs and prostitution shows that there are two different customer bases out there(sometimes some customers fit into both categories, what they want at the moment depends on their mood and any number of things). so, the guys who want full service, go to the brothel, the guys who want a no extras dance, go to the SC.

    my argument is you'll see more brothels popping up. a lot of the SCs now where there are extras being performed will turn into brothels. the top notch dancers from these clubs will either move on to the high end glitz clubs, or remain and perform more services. or remain and not perform more sexual services and watch their pay deminish.

    oh yah, forgot to add the tie in......

    so the girls performing extras in non-brothel areas aren't stealing customers from non-extras dancers.

  18. #43
    Veteran Member vanilla_dog's Avatar
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    Thanks Livenudegirls! Great article.

    I do not think prostitution will ever become legal in this country outside of Nevada. I think there will be a backlash against the permissiveness we are seeing in the clubs today. More people will complain as the *lap dance* becomes better understood by mainstream society.

    In many cities there are picketers outside of strip clubs and adult bookstores. No john is going to want to walk past a bank of video cameras with little red laser dots trained on his chest.






    You get what you put up with

  19. #44
    Pamela
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    Well i for one don't see prostitution becoming legal around here any time soon. Also, you have 2 types of guys, those who are looking for "more," prostitutes in Nevada are offering full service, and rather expensive!

    Dancers offer a strip, with VIP action. Being a dancer in a club you should obey the laws, and rules.

    2 very different worlds.

    Then there are women like me, in-between the both now. I offer more than a club can/should, not as much as a prostitute!

    I think that makes many lonely men happy, and i don't cost near as much as a prostitute (i don't have sex of any kind.)

    Prostitutes and dancers are 2 different professions! Perform "extras" in a club...Sure you are prostituting yourself out, i,e. hj's etc. I don't even see how this could be up for debate, maybe some customers just don't understand the difference ...Still.

    I am probably called "high mileage" by most now. Thats cool, whore..NO way.

    Pamela

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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    Quote Originally Posted by livenudegirlsunite link=board=1;threadid=7336;start=msg83898#msg83898 date=1079194700
    Legalization of prostitution sends the message to new generations of men and boys that women are sexual commodities
    Don't strip clubs (even those without extras) send the same message?

    Quote Originally Posted by livenudegirlsunite link=board=1;threadid=7336;start=msg83898#msg83898 date=1079194700
    Advertisements line the highways of Victoria offering women as objects for sexual use and teaching new generations of men and boys to treat women as subordinates.
    Once again, don't strip clubs (even those without extras) send the same message?

  21. #46
    Veteran Member Topaz's Avatar
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    men think that of women anyway...

    otherwise...prostitution...strip clubs...porn...and the like...would not be such thriving industries...

    Why do some people still have to fight...to get the same opportunities...that are given to others??...

    Look out for self...because noone else will...AND
    The greatest revenge in the world...is success...

    Reclusivness...is a good thing.

  22. #47
    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    Johns really have no business in stripclubs, except in a few select clubs in SF, Houston or the more raunchy/seedy clubs abroad where it's an embraced rule by all the dancers
    Grrrrrrrr.....I've worked abroad (Europe) and in Houston without having to prostitute myself, and Johns are NOT welcome in the clubs of either of these places...quit picking on these dead horses!!


    Also, prostitution is decriminalized in the Netherlands. Over there, gender equality and egalitarianism in relationships is very advanced, and I do not see Dutch men treating all Dutch women as prostitutes.

    As a matter of fact, Dutch women tend to be very independant, with many feminist ideals. This is reflected in a high number of women working outside the home and in management positions, probably about the same percentage as the US, if not better....The influx of immigrants over there actually lowers the bar just a bit, but by 2nd generation, everyone I met has been appropriately "Hollandized".

    I also worked in a cabaret in the city notorious for its window prostitutes (Amsterdam). I never performed a single extra in the strip club. Hell, it was less contact than Houston!!

    Sure, some guys came in thinking the place might offer sex, but most guys came to see a classy nude striptease, drink overpriced champagne, and talk to the ladies, with the occasional nude no contact private dance.......the $$ wasn't that good, but it was a really nice honest living....incidentally, some girls did offer extras in that club, but it wasn't illegal or even frowned upon there, rather our choice.

    .....there truly is more than one market for women, and I see way too many sweeping generalizations on this topic when I have experienced total exceptions......open up your noggins a bit peoples!!

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
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  23. #48
    IACali
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    I don't have much time, so just read Pamela's op. Four pages later, I'm sure I'm "responding" to what the thread is no longer about, but so be it.

    I am a VERY clean dancer in the clubs, but like Pamela have also done private shows - and yes, dildo shows bring in GREAT money. I enjoy myself, they enjoy theirselves, all is well in the world.

    --I allow touching of my breasts, no licking.
    --Body shots off of my stomach.
    --No touching in my crotch area - they can touch my ass while I am grinding though.
    --They can please themselves while I watch, but not while I am "on" them. I will kneel beside them or stand near them and tweak their nipples, rub their shoulders, whisper in their ears, etc to help them along.
    --I like to take along a poloroid (for an extra price of course) and let them take pictures of my body - but I get to go through the resulting pics and take with me any of the photos I deem inappropriate for them to keep.

    I learned many of these tricks working at a nude club in Phoenix that had private rooms. The guys could please themselves if they wanted in the private rooms (lotions, oils, kleenexes all provided) but this was a very by-the-books club. Strange, so many girls working places, esp. topless places, looked down on us for this practice, but it was the cleanest club I have ever worked in. Cameras in every room, and if we broke the slightest rule, security would come knock on the door, pull us out of the room in the middle of the show, and reprimand us.

    We could sit with him on the couch (lap dances, he could jerk off, whatever) as long as we were completely clothed (in dancer gear). If we took off any item, or revealed or breasts or whatever, we HAD to be on the little "stage" in the room, a minimum of three feet away from the couch. With a railing on the stage and everything.

    I admire you Pamela for your high standards in the club, and also for setting your OWN high standards for your private shows.

    Kali

  24. #49
    Featured Member polecat's Avatar
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine link=board=1;threadid=7336;start=msg83991#msg83991 date=1079216412
    Grrrrrrrr.....I've worked abroad (Europe) and in Houston without having to prostitute myself, and Johns are NOT welcome in the clubs of either of these places...quit picking on these dead horses!!
    Notice I said select clubs, not all. There are plenty of stripclubs in both SF and Houston where johns still have no business looking for their thrills, and even in those that offer them- selling standard fair lapdances and privates is still the biggest/best goal.

    Sure, some guys came in thinking the place might offer sex, but most guys came to see a classy nude striptease, drink overpriced champagne, and talk to the ladies, with the occasional nude no contact private dance.......the $$ wasn't that good, but it was a really nice honest living....incidentally, some girls did offer extras in that club, but it wasn't illegal or even frowned upon there, rather our choice.
    This is the model here in SF (with the exception of no-contact laps).. and it works out quite well! As it's dancer's choice and all their peers are aware of this, it becomes "business as usual" and they can all live by their own boundries and decide to make money however they see fit. Everyone that walks in the door is treated as a gentleman, and most of the dancers are quite content to sell standard lapdances all night.

    livenudegirls-
    Sweden believes that by prohibiting the purchase of sexual services, prostitution and its damaging effects can be counteracted more effectively than hitherto. Importantly, this law clearly states that: Prostitution is not a desirable social phenomenon and is an obstacle to the ongoing development towards equality between women and men.**"

    I wish that we had a government that cared so much about violence against women in this country. Instead our government focuses on punishing the victims.
    Sweden consists of a bunch of morons. It's the oldest profession and will be around regardless of whatever the law books say and law enforcement will never be able to keep tabs of all of it. Escorts and prostitutes still work and function in Sweden, regardless of the hot air on paper shown.

    I do agree with the portion I've put in bold above. Don't let my advocacy force an assumption on my personal beliefs. I just happen to live in a province where it's rampant and I've seen the effects it has for some women, which is clearly as described. Some, not all. For others, it's offerred a much better alternative to legal brothels as it allows them to keep a substantially larger share of their earnings, a substantially safer and more selective arena, and no controlling or invasive procedures forced on their bodies.

    More importantly, decriminalization is an absolute must in the US in order to protect women that prostitute themselves, or at least some form of permanent decriminalization for sex workers that have been victims of violence. Prostitutes and other sex workers are bruised and beaten daily and have no legal recourse for fears of self-incriminalization. It's an absolute travesty for the many women that have been beaten or killed for themselves or their peers to be unable to apprehend, convict and stop men perpetrating violence against women of any vocation or social level.

    I don't suggest I have all the answers, but making something illegal never prevents it's occurance, and given the high degree of violence sufferred by these women with no legal recourse in our country, something must be done to offer protection for them. I don't see anything causing the industry to ever just cease to exist, so focus need to be put on acceptance and offerring basic human rights and protection.
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

  25. #50
    Pamela
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    Default Re:Well i am out of a club so.....

    Well i was born and raised in SWEDEN, my family (most still lives there) they are not morons.

    In Sweden, there are clubs that have dancers, who DO escorting as well. Take a dancer or two or three in a back room with a bed and have a ball!!!! They have just crossed the line from dancers to escorting, or call it prostitution if you want, it's a job and what they want to do.

    This is LEGAL. This is done inside the club establishment! Many dancers escort as well in Sweden outside the clubs. I know, been back home, seen the clubs, and my friend worked Royale Caberet.

    They are not morons, just open minded, and express freely their sexuality, our country is FAR behind most of Europe. You wanna screw for sex, do it! Pay the price with your health, and perhaps a bust if you don't play by the rules.

    Pamela

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