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    Default A rude awakening

    I just wanted to relay my luck to some of the girls on the site. I have been visiting the site for a couple of months, becoming very excited about dancing. I went to one audition and was turned down, eventhough the housemom was talking about how desperately they needed girls. I thought that my race , being black, might have had something to do with it because I had only seen a maximum of 3 in the club at any given time. It was my first choice because I had been there before. Well I posted my experience before and felt that the support that I was given had helped jump back out there and try again. Well I did. In fact I tried three other clubs. All of which were advertising that they needed dancers. All of which I called ahead to make an appointment to audition and all of which told me as soon as I walked in the door that they were not hiring. I do not make excuses for people and when a spade is a spade, I call it as so. I have constantly been mistaken for a white woman over the telephone, primarily because I speak proper English and do not display an accent. I carry myself with class and respect. I know when I can smell a rat. And the rat here is called discrimination. Yes, I understand that it is there club and there is nothing I can do about it. But when I go into a club and see women who are overweight, missing teeth, deflated breasts, and unbelivable stretch marks, which I have none of. I feel insulted. It is amazing to me that still after all this time the old addage that " Even the most beautiful black woman cannot compete with the ugliest white woman." I do not consider myself a perfect ten, but I would like a chance and appearently my skin color prohibits that.

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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    I am sorry that you had to deal with that. I dont know what thats like because I am not black, but if I was I would be extremely pissed off and hurt. I would like to have told them off, but again, that will only reinforce their bullshit ideas. I would have calmly asked them what was the problem. "You guys said you needed girls... whats wrong?" Grrrrrrr
    Where are you from? Are there any other more multicultural places to dance? I know that places like NJ and NY have a ton of every race.
    Again, I am sorry you had to deal with that shit. Obviously, people will continue to discriminate or be assholes. Its a never ending cycle.

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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    I'm in Atlanta. Unfortunately alot of other clubs are having their liquor licenses taken away because of the conservative majority that would like to shut stripclubs down so my options are very limited.

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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    Oh, honey, this is HORRIBLE! Wow, I can really see through your experience here that a lot of humans are still pitifully stupid. I mean, I know that a lot of clubs do discriminate, but this is ridiculous! Missing teeth? How sad. Where are you applying to these dirty and undeserving s**tholes, anyway? Go somewhere where there is a higher caliber of women and brains, and let those clubs keep their 500 lbs. trolls.

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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    Ummmm...most strip clubs have more than one manager that hires girls. At my club, there seems to be one manager that won't hire any black girls...but the other managers will if they like the dancer. SO...is there any way that you can find out which managers work which nights and go in on separate nights and talk to them?

    You may think that only blacks get discriminated against...and that's your opinion. But, there have been several times that I have called and found out the club was hiring, I have gone in for an audition, talked to the manager, only to be told that they are not hiring. In this business, though, it's not about skin color, weight, height or anything else. It's simply about whether or not the manager likes you. Hell, at the club I am at now...I LOVE the manager that hired me! He's great...but, there's another manager there who is a little "harsher" with me. Personally, I think that if I were to have gone in and spoken with him, I might not have gotten hired.

    I am sorry that you feel that you are being discriminated against. I've felt that way many times (and I'm hispanic). But, this is the sales business...and if the manager doesn't think that you are going to up the sales, then they are going to pass you by. It's just like dancers selling dances on the floor...sometimes you have to go back to the same annoying guy 3 times before he buys a dance. Persistance is the key. Maybe by constantly returning for a dance audition...they'll see that you mean business and may give you a chance.

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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    oh no, october.. thats horrible.. IF you were anywhere near me id help you find a job! People are just jerks sometimes.. I thought it was 2004, HELLO NO MORE DISCRIMINATION!!!

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    Featured Member NikkiD's Avatar
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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    I am so sorry that you have had to deal with that! It's bullshit! But if they are a club where the women are that trashy, maybe it's better to go elsewhere. I wouldn't want to be associated with the crack whores! Good Luck, you have my utmost support!


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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    Wow, Hon..

    Sorry about all that. Racism is completely ridiculous, especially in an industry where variety is what is needed.

    Keep at it Sweetie. Eventually, they'll be kicking themselves when they see you on stage in another club.


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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    Sorry to hear that, oktoberdwn.

    I clicked on your profile and I see that you live in Atlanta. Atlanta is a pretty racially diverse city; it surprises me that a club there wouldn't have more than 3 black girls at a time.

    I'm not familiar with Atlanta clubs. Is this the best money making club in Atlanta, or are there clubs where you can make the same amount of money or more?

    If you really have your heart set on this club, I would go there again looking your absolute best. Be polite, but don't let them jerk you around. If they tell you that they are not hiring, I would say something like "The man/lady who answered the phone told me that you were looking for dancers. Is there a particular reason why I am not hired?" If you really want to work at this particular club, don't take no for an answer. If you show them you are persistent, maybe they will see that you work hard for what you want and they will hire you.

    However, if there are other clubs that you are comfortable in and that there is a lot of money to be made, I would say fuck this club and try another one.

    Good luck to you, and I'm sorry you had to go through this bullshit. It sucks that some managers hire according to their personal preferences and not what the customers want.






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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    Girl Keep lookin' I'm black and have plenty!

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    Veteran Member Mercury_Deep's Avatar
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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    Oh yes girlfriend you are not alone in this. I have that happen to me alot too, not just in the stripping circuit, you know what I mean.
    I may be wrong, but I thought there was a club in Atlanta known for its predominately minority makeup. If so, that's a good one to try.
    Eyeliner and charisma go a long way!

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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    Let's slow down a bit before we start using the "racism" card here. I believe you said in your post that there were already three black dancers in the club, correct? If these people were racist, then you wouldn't have even seen these three, and to assume otherwise is just that, an assumption. The real question here is, how many black CUSTOMERS were in the club? If there are 50 customers in the club and only one of them is black, then the club might feel as though there is already an imbalance in the ratio of black dancers to black customers and that another black dancer will overflow that quotient. It all boils down to statistics and demographics. If there were 50 customers in the club and 25 of them were black, then I think you'd have a better case here. It is entirely possible that you were not hired because you are black, and that has nothing to do with racism whatsoever.

    For example, let's say there was a play about the history of President Kennedy and you auditioned for the part of Jackie Onassis. You might be the best actress there, but because you are black means you didn't fit the part. Is that racism there? No, not by a long shot.

    On the same line of thinking as your point too, if I were to go into a gentlemen's club in downtown Atlanta, or in the Bronx, or even in parts of Miami, white women will probably be in the vast minority. Why? Because most of their customers are black, or latino, etc. If I were to go into a club in Chinatown, do you think there would be lots of white or latino dancers? Of course not! Is it racism? Of course not!

    Demographics in a club make a big part of the decision making when managers hire dancers. I'm always reminded of an incident I saw about a year ago. A dancer told me that the management of a club was racist because she didn't get hired and she was black. I asked her how she figured this and she had no other reason other than the management was racist. Knowing all the managers of that club, I made a phone call. I found out that their demographic in their club was 95% white guys and over 25% of their dancers were of ethnic origin. Over 10% were black. Also funny was that although she met with a white manager, the manager who made the decision as to her ability to work there was, in fact, black himself.

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    Featured Member Lilith's Avatar
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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    I'm going to have to agree with DancerWealth. Jumping to the worst conclusion isn't always accurate when you look behind the scenes.

    I knopw the temptation to think "discrimination" when it comes to being hired for a job is because it is a J-O-B... but this is a rather different sort of job. You make money, for you and your club, based upon your appeal to the customers. If you wouldn't appeal to the same guy in a regular bar, then he won't find you appealing in a strip club either. Frankly, it isn't the minorities alone who find this working against them. In nearly a year of dancing, I have danced for a whopping total of ONE black man. They rarely tip me on stage, they don't eye me as I walk by and they certainly don't want to buy dances from me. Are they rascist? I doubt it. I'm just not their type. Would a club with a predominantly black clientele be racist for not hiring me? Not in the slightest; I've already learned that very few black men find me appealing.


    That doesn't mean, however, that it isn't really disappointing to be turned down for employment. Chin up, sweets, I'm sure you are quite lovely. Keep looking, somewhere out there is the perfect club for you.
    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    I can appreciate your positive view of how things might possibly be, but I have to tell you that although I have only live 23 years, I have been a black person throughout all of them. There are certain experiences that one might encounter throughout their lifetimes that they will never forget. It is as though the feeling that was incurred because of the experience has been imprinted in your brain forever. This is not the first time that I have been disriminated against and I'm quite sure it won't be the last. I know what it is like to be discriminated against because of my race because I know the look, the tone, the sentiment of the rejection. I cannot explain it to you, but it is there.
    On the other hand, I don't think that the club wasn't hiring alot of black dancers because the majority of their clients were white, but just the contrary. They do not want to attract a large black crowd. They do not want the black clientelle. This may seem strange seems how all money is green, but Atlanta is very segregated and works on alot of stereotypes of minorities. This is where I believe the root of the problem to be.

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    Veteran Member Mercury_Deep's Avatar
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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    Ugh, how sick!

    I don't think anyone is going to come away with this feeling any better, so I'll just be blatently honest here.
    Dancerwealth, your explanition is a very good example as to why this lady is pissed off in the first place.
    It all boils down to societal ill. Any person can tell you that it's not "because I'm Black," it's the fact that this is even an issue. There is no explaination to make it all better. So what the clientele is 95% white, that does not mean they are all looking for white women. Of course, when that is their only choice, they will choose it. If this happens enough times people become conditioned to look for that. The illness began with the assumption that white customers want white dancers all or the majority of the time.

    There's no better way to cheapen a person's true statement of expierence than to announce they have "pulled the race card".
    You may as well catcall and blame it on her period...
    Eyeliner and charisma go a long way!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Queen link=board=25;threadid=8783;start=msg106193#msg106 193 date=1083884335
    There's no better way to cheapen a person's true statement of expierence than to announce they have "pulled the race card".
    No, and it has also been my experience lately that the race card gets pulled far more frequently than actual racism. Does racism exist? Of course it does...I've been a victim of it myself. Does it happen as often as it's claimed as of late, I think no. Is she a victim of racism? That remains to be seen, and based on what she explained, I'd say probably not. I know it's not politically correct, but much of the black leadership throws down the race card on any whim they choose, and it's easy to get caught up in that. I'm not taking a "positive" point of view as you put it, I'm taking an objective point of view. I've personally seen the race card played so many times incorrectly it's just as wrong as those who do actually have racist point of views.

    Another thing that you seem to consider as racism is simply choosing demographics. As I stated in my previous message, there is a big difference. And although some people take the stance of "the club doesn't want more black dancers because they don't want more black customers" I beg to differ. For example, I dare anyone to open a club in areas of El Paso or Miami and populate it with white and black girls only. You'll be out of business in a month. Why? Because the poulation there is highly latino. Human Beings are generally attracted to people they associate with. There's nothing racist or wrong about that...it's reality. It's human nature whether you like it or not. It's the same reason that if you were to open a club in the Bronx or East L.A. and populate it only with white women, you'll be out of business in not time. It's simply a matter of keeping the statistics equal to what your demographics are. Rather than blame the club owners of being racist (the same ones who already hired other women of race), let's be honest with each other and take a closer look at why she wasn't hired instead.

    It reminds me of another story that I have personal experience with. Several years ago, I was working as a sales executive for a gaming company and I had to hire someone for an open position. I conducted several interviews and one of the men who I called in for an interview had a 22 page resume of which he had listings of his Mensa test scrores and full page explanations of why one of his jobs was terrible because he worked in a call center and his "boss charged $5 for each call that came in but I only got $1 of it". This guy was not only not qualified for the job, but was quite frankly not even material I would have hired even if he was. A day after the interview, he came back to my office and asked for the result of the hiring. I told him we found someone else (a black man actually) and he said thanks. Upon leaving, he muttered under his voice, "It's probably because I'm not a Cracker" and I got pissed. Anyone who knows me I'm about as color-blind of a person you'll ever meet and I take racism charges very seriously. I'm Jewish, and I've had literally dozens of my family members assasinated or brutally murdered by the Nazi's in WWII. I've been a victim of racism on numerous occasions, so I know first hand what it's like to be on the other side. I asked the guy back in. I then took him on a tour of my department. We had 42 people holding high level positions. in my department. 18 of them were of ethnic origin, half of those were black, and half of those were black women. I told him to go out and explain to me how I am just keeping the affirmative action quota when I was exceeding it by over 2X. I also then mentioned how we had vice presidents for the company (revenues totalling $800 million annually) who were either women, or black. or both. Our head of marketing was a woman, the head of our Quality Assurance department was black. It seems pretty much a leap to consider that we were a racist, sexist, bigotted considering that the PERSON I WOUND UP HIRING FOR THAT SAME POSITION WAS BLACK! It's REAL easy to use the race card nowadays, and I know that racism does actually exist. That doesn't mean that everyone who is white walks around with a confederate flag and thinks that if you are black you need to drink from a separate water fountain and ride in the back of the bus. Those things simply disgust me, and it's a black eye on our country's history. It also doesn't mean that if you walk into a company and you don't get the job, that the reason was because you are black.

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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    First of all to say that you are color-blind is an ignorant statement that has the tendency to dismiss or rationalize racism when it occurs, as it is happening here. I can appreciate your religious minority status, as that being Jewish is not a racial designation that one can see as soon as you walk in the room. Yes, you might want to point out stereotypical physical aspects related to being Jewish but I assure you any physical indicator that may be based on stereotypes about races don't scream as loud as the color of my skin. I understand that you might think that the club owners are not racist because they have black girls in their clubs. Apparently, you have never heard of a quota system. Although, people generally think that such things are not being put into effect any longer,it doesn't mean it's not being practiced. That excuse, and that is exactly what it is, to allow someone to approve of thier actions is irresponsible. You not only see past their behavior but you are making an excuse for it, perpetuating the behavior even more. I understand that this topic is not comfortable to think about or possibly believe because in your world there are always a rhyme or reason that cannot possibly offensive to someone else. But it is unfair to other people to take a few bad examples of "throwing down the race card" and feeling that all people who can, do because it is an easy way out.

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    God/dess DancerWealth's Avatar
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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by oktoberdwn link=board=25;threadid=8783;start=msg106308#msg106 308 date=1083904616
    I can appreciate your religious minority status, as that being Jewish is not a racial designation that one can see as soon as you walk in the room.
    Once again you are making assumptions. Being that my last name is Sternberg, I have encountered racism because of the origins of my last name long before people have even seen me. As for physical effects of being Jewish, you are wrong here also. If you need proof of that, I'll be happy to post a photo on here of my grandfather's arm that was branded with a number while he was a guest in Dachau during the holocaust. Please don't lecture me that your type of racism experience is any different or worse than mine. You will not find a sympathetic ear in that debate.

    I understand that you might think that the club owners are not racist because they have black girls in their clubs.
    I guess that's the difference between us. You are obviously a "glass is half empty" kind of person and are now going out of your way to find ways to call someone a racist. Sounds like racism right there if you ask me.

    I know this is a big stretch, but could it conceivably be possible that maybe you didn't get hired there because...and I know this is a huge stretch and all, that maybe you just weren't qualified? Perhaps you just weren't good enough? If what you want is a big group hug and a "those guys were assholes and racists" then that's fine. It won't solve any issues though and it certainly won't help you win. I'll be the first person to sympathize with a dancer who auditions for a club and doesn't make it. That sucks and dancers have hard nights from time to time and don't get a good break. What deeply offends me is the fact that your first and natural response is because you are black. Especially since you have no foundation, no evidence, and certainly no examples of how or why that might be true. Only that it's your unfounded claim. I'm taking the devil's advocate view here. Let's look at all possible reasons you didn't get the gig and not the one where you instantly condemn people to be guilty of an extremely damaging charge wihout one shred of evidence. If you want to be honest with the situation, then we can deal with how to make it better and how to correct it and get you in somewhere where we know you will be successful. Let's first drop the "everyone is out to get me" mentality first though, ok?

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    Veteran Member Topaz's Avatar
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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    i think it's nervey (sp) and disgusting when a non-black person is constantly accusing a black person of 'pulling the race card'...you will never experience racism the way we do...so please...please...don't go there...

    we did not choose our skin tone...and you do not know what actually went down...racism is still alive and well....people still look at you in disgust...treat you differently...and 'suddenly' change their mind about positions available when they see you...been there...experienced that...

    please stop telling her what she experienced wasn't real...don't imply that she's lying...some white folks still hate us...and will do whatever they can to keep us 'in our place'...

    Why do some people still have to fight...to get the same opportunities...that are given to others??...

    Look out for self...because noone else will...AND
    The greatest revenge in the world...is success...

    Reclusivness...is a good thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz link=board=25;threadid=8783;start=msg106372#msg106 372 date=1083925439
    i think it's nervey (sp) and disgusting when a non-black person is constantly accusing a black person of 'pulling the race card'...you will never experience racism the way we do...so please...please...don't go there...
    ...and the same is true likewise. And, I'm not constantly accusing anything. I'm simply pointing out the facts as they exist in this conversation. I'm sorry if that bothers you, but if the shoe fits.....

    ...and you do not know what actually went down.
    Which is exactly why I've been asking for more details as to the situation this whole time and have yet to get them.

    please stop telling her what she experienced wasn't real...don't imply that she's lying...some white folks still hate us...and will do whatever they can to keep us 'in our place'...
    I agree that racism still exists. Of course it does. What we do not agree on is that it existed in this situation based on the fact that there is no efidence to support it. THAT is why it sounds like a race-card play. To simply walk into an audition and not get the part and claim the people involved were racists without having one iota of logic or support to back it up is a pretty bold claim. I'd even go so far as to claim that's a racist statement itself. Racism works both ways too you know. I'm reminded of that every time I hear Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton or Louis Farakahn speak.

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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by DancerWealth link=board=25;threadid=8783;start=msg105600#msg105 600 date=1083791087
    Demographics in a club make a big part of the decision making when managers hire dancers.
    The bottom line is it is illegal to discriminate. If they did not hire her because she is black, that is discrimination. It doesn't matter if she was the only black girl or one of dozens, if she is qualified for the position, she should be hired.
    "When I squinted the world seemed rose-tinted and angels appeared to descend; to my surprise with half-closed eyes things looked even better than when they were opened!"

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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by celeste_63 link=board=25;threadid=8783;start=msg106421#msg106 421 date=1083942565
    Quote Originally Posted by DancerWealth link=board=25;threadid=8783;start=msg105600#msg105 600 date=1083791087
    Demographics in a club make a big part of the decision making when managers hire dancers.
    The bottom line is it is illegal to discriminate. If they did not hire her because she is black, that is discrimination. It doesn't matter if she was the only black girl or one of dozens,
    Actually, that's not entirely true either. There are some professions where racial, ethnic, or gender discrimination is perfectly legal. The entertainment industry is a perfect example. Let's say Oprah Winfrey auditioned for the part of Jimmy Carter in a movie. Court precedent has shown time and time again that she would not be able to file a lawsuit claiming gender and racial discrimination. The entertainment industry has the legal ability and right to discriminate based on race, gender, etc. So, being that exotic dancing is, in fact, part of the entertainment industry, does that fine line still exist as it would on the set of a movie? I'm no attorney, but I'd love the opinion of one if there was one reading this. I'm not saying it's always justified because I do know that there are some club owners who take a very anti-black attitude when hiring dancers. I'm just not sure it's true in the case in point here.

    if she is qualified for the position, she should be hired.
    Absolutely! I couldn't agree more with that! The painful question to ask is, was she? There have been many times that I have gone on job interviews and not gotten the position that I was sure I was qualified for. Does that mean that the people I interviewed with anti-semites? Of course not, and it certainly wouldn't be my first foregone conclusion that it was. Most likely it was because they wanted some skillset that I didn't possess or thought that I did but didn't. So that all being said, let's see what we can do to help her pass the next audition and do really well in this business without focusing on what may or may not have been a racially motivated decision on the part of the management she auditioned for.

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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by celeste_63 link=board=25;threadid=8783;start=msg106421#msg106 421 date=1083942565
    Quote Originally Posted by DancerWealth link=board=25;threadid=8783;start=msg105600#msg105 600 date=1083791087
    Demographics in a club make a big part of the decision making when managers hire dancers.
    The bottom line is it is illegal to discriminate. If they did not hire her because she is black, that is discrimination. It doesn't matter if she was the only black girl or one of dozens, if she is qualified for the position, she should be hired.
    Ok...I was going to stay out of this, but I just have to say something. I completely agree with DancerWealth.

    There are MANY, MANY reasons why people do not get hired for a job. Everyone thinks that if a person is qualified for a job, then they should get hired. Qualifications only refer to the actual ability to do a job. Now, I'll tell you WHY people do not get hired even when they are qualified (and it has nothing to do with racism).

    First, no matter how qualified somebody is for any position, if they go to the interview with an attitude, "inappropriate" clothing, etc, chances are, they are not going to get the job...even if they are the most "qualified" person for the job. Walk in with an attitude of superiority over the interviewer...you most likely will not get the job. Have you ever met anyone who just rubbed you the wrong way before you even talked to them? Just a kind of "friction" that put you on guard from the very get-go? Well, it happens a lot...and if it happens at an interview, chances are, you won't get that job. In the end, qualifications are just a door opener. If any of the above happens, then you simply will not become an employee at that company. It's as simple (and hard) as that. It has nothing to do with racism, sexism, etc, etc, etc. Focusing on that one thing alone will rob you of the ability to see past that and look for the clues as to why you might not have gotten the job, so if need be, you can make changes before you go to the next place.

    I get extremely angry when black people tell me that I cannot "know how they feel" when they've been discriminated against because of race. But, I've been there, too...and I've been discriminated against because I'm a woman...so what's the point? True, everyone's actual experience is different when you get down to the nitty gritty, but we've all experienced it at one time or another. So, trying to single yourself out by saying that I've never experienced racism, sexism, etc. is extremely out-of-line and you are being very closed minded if you think that you are the "only one",or because I'm not black that I cannot experience racism, etc.

    Now, if October did not get hired because she is black and the club she went to was not hiring black dancers at the time (they wouldn't have lied to her and it's not discrimination), then by being polite, smiling, thanking them for their time, and requesting to be contacted when a spot opened up would have been, not only appropriate, but extremely memorable. Then, by dropping in every once in a while to inquire as to a dancing position within the club would help keep the doors open.

    It's hard to be turned down at a club that you really want to work at. It's a real blow to the ego. BUT, there are constructive ways to deal with the situation other than blaming someone else. I've been turned down before and it sucked...I felt like the ugliest dancer on the face of the earth. It's an experience I will never forget...and I understand the "anger" that comes from the rejection...but, it's not the focal point. The focal point is that you ruled out one club (at least for the time being) and are looking for another club.

    Everything else is just a drama that is keeping you from focusing on the real goal: a dancing position at a club that you would like to work at.

  24. #24
    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    Just wanted to add one more thing.

    Last week, there was a beautiful girl that came for an audition at the club I work at. The word was out that the club was hiring and so she came in. However, when she got there, they turned her away. Was it because she was black? NO! It was because she had long blonde hair, big boobs, tall, and thin. Not a problem, right? Wrong. Our club has so many "barbies" that they were looking to hire brunettes. So, the blonde walks out the door, and in comes 2 brunettes...both were hired.

    It brings up another point. Qualifications in different fields mean different things. Being a qualified dancer means not only knowing how to dance and hustle, but also having the hair and eye color, body type and personality the club is looking for. That being said, October obviously was not qualified for this specific club...just like Barbie was not qualified for my club.

    Ok...I'm done.

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    Featured Member sander8son's Avatar
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    Default Re:A rude awakening

    ooooooo, a thread on race, racism and descrimination. my mind is salivating on the prospect of jumping in on this one. wait, my mind is salivating? maybe i should get that checked out.

    first off, i hate when people complain about DESCRIMINATION. it could be argued that descrimination is neither good nor bad, however i'm going to argue on the stance that it is actually a good thing.

    Descrimination itself isn't the enemy. it can be negative(descriminating solely on race or gender or sexual preference and the like), however, without descrimination life would be even more unfair than it is now. descrimination is merely the minds ability to categorize and rate certain aspects, qualities, skills, performances. without such an ability, nobody could possibly advance in life fairly. Life would just be one big spin of the wheel. immagine how irritating it would be if hirings or promotions were'nt based on what the individuals have done or could do? instead everyone who applied was just assigned a number and then a random number was drawn. the lucky person whom that number belonged to got the job or whatever it may be. that would be rediculous. the problem comes in when those in power descriminate based on characteristics that have nothing to do with performance. therefor, its not a descrimination issue, but an issue of rank.

    ok. i can only stay serious for so long........
    DancerWealth, you're telling me that you're jewish, and you're not a lawyer? how is that possible??? lol

    ok, back to the thread.

    i agree with everyone and no-one(hows that for chosing sides?). it is certainly possible that she wasn't hired to do those in power being racist. however its also possible the management wasn't racist...even if the non-hiring was due to her race. would that be racial descrimination? yes. but that isn't nescesarily bad. for, there could be a club looking to hire ONLY black dancers. if she was hired there over someone of a different race, would that be based on descrimination? yes, but its what the employer was looking for. every hiring is done descriminately, but not nescisarrilly maliciously racially. However, i do think its possible that these managers were racist and that may have impacted their hiring(or lack thereof) decision. if they didn't hire her because they dont like (or hell, hate) black people that would be terrible(and its possible). its highly probable that it was true in ATLEAST one case. especially seeing as she's in the south(known for their progressive unity policies. lol), and she was turned down by several clubs.... the more you spin the wheel the higher the odds you'll hit on racism.

    Venus(i believe) makes some good points about perhaps they weren't hiring black girls now, but MAY in the future so it wouldn't be a bad idea to be curtious and check back every so often...even if you didnt' get the job because they were racist, by being polite, you may actually(not likely, but possibly) change the oppinions of racist people towards your race. who knows, your actions could pave the way for others to get a job in the future???

    ok, another racially/ethnically motivated joke: im not sure if being courtious would help her out any. i mean how is the racist manager supposed to remember her? afterall, "they" all look alike dont they?

    ok, back on track.

    another bit on descrimination. i can gaurantee you i woudlnt' get hired at the clubs you tried out for. not because of my race, but because of my gender. you dont here many guys bickering about not being able to dance at strip clubs(save me) simply because they are men. the club doesn't wish to have male dancers, so they dont hire them. i have no right to complain. yes, thats sexism, but its the clubs choosing. as a black woman you have a greater chance of being hired than a white man does to be an exotic dancer. you probably think this is an absolutely rediculous point. yes it is, but it should shed some light into ways we descriminate that we dont even think about being wrong.

    im a firm believer in those controlling the capital being able to chose who they employ(mere resources) on whatever grounds they choose. does that make me a racist? in itself no. ive worked with people of all races and know that in each race there are those who are good employees and those who are shitty employees. do i believe in stereotypes? ofcorse! stereotypes are true....however, not about everyone in the population. i however dont fall prey to stereotyping as im willing to give everyone a shot regardless of what the stereotype may be. oh yah, i remember where i was going with this. problem is that in america the marjority of the capital is controlled by white men. thus its basically up to the females and non-whites to prove to the white men that they are worthy of employment...this is where problems come in. but as we progress forward, other groups are starting to aquire more and more capital, hopefully helping to alleviate these problems even more in the future.

    ok, back to semi-nonseriousness: none of you who aren't white males know the pain and suffering that go into being in the majority. there is just constant expectation placed on me. i'm the one given the job and the responsibility. and when i do my job as expected or even slightly better, i dont get any congratulations. but when some minority just does their job proficiently or decides to come in on time, a racist boss gives them a pat on the back. what the hell, all i get is a promotion. what am i gonna do with more money? i want a meaningless faux-compliment, damn it!!! seriously, theres no fooling anyone that im white. i can't even pretend to be greek/itallian/spanish and possibly have some affrican ancestry. thats right, my ancestors didn't migrite out of africa. im not human, im so white i was clearly a descendant of polar bears. i dont even tan. goodluck to me walkin down the streets of roxbury or mattapan late at night. and i dont even listen to rap/hip hop. so all the white kids who want to be black allienate me. if only i was a minority....life would be so....... still shitty, just different.

    we all deal with descrimination in different forms. sometimes its good, sometimes its bad. you have to pick up the peices and use that to propell you to be the best person you can be.


    edit: oh and the stereotype that white people are good at spelling, clearly im a flagrant example of an exception.

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